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Naruto Manga Thread (OT) - The End is here
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
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Winterfang
Banned
I don't understand how some people still think Susanoo means Tsukyomi +Amateratsu
Itachi is the exception, not the rule. He is the only one so far with two very different eye power, Obito has dimension altering in both eyes, Shisui has Koto on both eyes, Sasuke has Amateratsu in both eyes.
Itachi is the exception, not the rule. He is the only one so far with two very different eye power, Obito has dimension altering in both eyes, Shisui has Koto on both eyes, Sasuke has Amateratsu in both eyes.
Ya, tumblr definitely loves grownup Sakura.
Do you have a source for this because generally manga-ka write data books themselves. Even Oda writes the books for One Piece and that's war and way the most popular series in Japan. As far as I know, Kishimoto has always written the data books himself.
What? Perfect Susanoo is a top tier jutsu. It is a fucking massive. Of course it would require a ton of chakra, and perhaps Obito is the source for powering it, and I could buy that, but I don't think anyone could reasonably believe Kakashi has the reserves to pull it off solo.
Er, yes, it does. Sharingan litrally translates to Copy Wheel Eye. How do you think Kakashi became to be know by his moniker? He copied a thousand jutsu with Obit's Sharingan?
Sasuke took a while to achieve his Perfect Susanoo because that obviously served the plot as Perfect Susanoo is a) not a common ability (not even Itachi has it, though in my mind he does cause he's Itachi), and it's ridiculously powerful. Seeing as it's crunch time to save the world, Kakashi just bust it out because he's got Ghostbito with him.
The inconsistency remains however, as Kishimoto previously wrote in data books that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi were both necessary to awaken Susanoo, which makes sense as those three Shinto gods were all created together by Izanagi. This is a retcon plain and simple.
Kakashi didn't copy Susanoo, that's probably more than likely, however I would argue that Susanoo belongs at least as much to Obito, seeing as its his Sharingan born from his chakra and that he seemed to fully aware what the results would be and that it would expire, i.e. once Ghostbito leaves, does the Susanoo.
Do you have a source for this because generally manga-ka write data books themselves. Even Oda writes the books for One Piece and that's war and way the most popular series in Japan. As far as I know, Kishimoto has always written the data books himself.
What? Perfect Susanoo is a top tier jutsu. It is a fucking massive. Of course it would require a ton of chakra, and perhaps Obito is the source for powering it, and I could buy that, but I don't think anyone could reasonably believe Kakashi has the reserves to pull it off solo.
Er, yes, it does. Sharingan litrally translates to Copy Wheel Eye. How do you think Kakashi became to be know by his moniker? He copied a thousand jutsu with Obit's Sharingan?
Sasuke took a while to achieve his Perfect Susanoo because that obviously served the plot as Perfect Susanoo is a) not a common ability (not even Itachi has it, though in my mind he does cause he's Itachi), and it's ridiculously powerful. Seeing as it's crunch time to save the world, Kakashi just bust it out because he's got Ghostbito with him.
The inconsistency remains however, as Kishimoto previously wrote in data books that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi were both necessary to awaken Susanoo, which makes sense as those three Shinto gods were all created together by Izanagi. This is a retcon plain and simple.
Kakashi didn't copy Susanoo, that's probably more than likely, however I would argue that Susanoo belongs at least as much to Obito, seeing as its his Sharingan born from his chakra and that he seemed to fully aware what the results would be and that it would expire, i.e. once Ghostbito leaves, does the Susanoo.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I have no idea what's going on or the rules of powers. Honestly it like watching Michael Bay's tranformers at this point.
TheRealTalker
Banned
it is approaching Hiro Mashima levels
Winterfang
Banned
I think Sasuke would had awaken the perfect Susanoo when Hagoromo gave him his powers, even if he haven't got Susanoo get. Seems like Perfect Susanoo is not exactly something you can just achieve by leveling up Susanoo but rather a different just altogether.
I kind of wish Kakashi Susanoo was a flying dimension altering wolf but beggars can't be choosers.
I kind of wish Kakashi Susanoo was a flying dimension altering wolf but beggars can't be choosers.
The Silver
Member
I'd say Obito willing himself out of the afterlife is squarely in Fairy Tail territory.
Winterfang
Banned
Jiraiya is the one that will itself back to life. Obito was like the "death is just another dimension", Kamui!!
God Dayumm
Banned
why sakura got that mole? she is ugly now "(
Again, based around Itachi's example of the technique. Pretty much all information from the Databooks are to be taken within the context of the chapters they cover; the description of Susanoō's prerequsites, and armament shouldn't have been taken as absolute.
If you want to insist that it was an inconsistency/retcon, then it was made years ago when Kishimoto designated Enton: Kagutsuchi to Sasuke's right Mangekyō Sharingan as one of his confirmed three dōryoku, rather than Tsukuyomi.
That's not a mole, that's her Byakugō no In; the forehead seal that Tsunade also has.
What's the even supposed to mean? Itachi was the only to have used all three jutsu at that point, so yeah, it was obviously based on him, though Kishimoto probably had already thought out Madara's move set by then.
The data books are the author's way of clarifying on subjects. They are conical and factual, and the entry on Susanoo said this.
There's really no two ways of going about it. Kishimoto retconned the shit out of Susanoo. That, or Obito had both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi as well, which to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind or even find surprising, as it would at least be consistent.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
We should just wait and see. I'm sure sasuke will be like yo kakashi how you do dat?
In the end people just need to remember how goddamn powerful Obito is so if he gave kakashi everything we can only imagine what he can do. But I'm sure we will get something. That's kishis mo. Get people flipping out then confront it next chapter or so.
In the end people just need to remember how goddamn powerful Obito is so if he gave kakashi everything we can only imagine what he can do. But I'm sure we will get something. That's kishis mo. Get people flipping out then confront it next chapter or so.
The Silver
Member
Itachi is really the anamoly when it comes to MS jutsu, everyone else has the "same" technique in both eyes, Itachi had completely different jutsus in his eyes.
Means exactly what it says, Susanoō's Databook entry was based around Itachi's specific example of the technique. Sasuke didn't meet those exact same prerequisites, not all Susanoō have been materialized with the exact same armament.
If you are getting the impression that I'm trying to discredit the Databooks, or imply that they aren't canon, then that isn't the case; I don't even buy the claims that have been going around that Kishimoto's assistants alone are responsible for the Databooks' writing.
As you said, they are there to clarify subjects, extrapolate things that were otherwise left vague, or omitted entirely; but when new, or conflicting information is provided by the manga, it will supersede what was provided in the outdated information in the Databooks. That is why they are meant to be taken within the context of the chapters they cover.
Alright, let me explain: How can any sort of databook, both in real life and in fiction, take things into account that have not happened yet? Simple answer: It can't. As real life and the manga go on, new things come up and new information retcons old one. This is a completely normal process. Here we have an old statement from a databook, were only one character was in possession of the subject at hand (Susanoo). Since then, multiple new users of said subject came along. You guys want to apply the old statement (from a time were it could be applied to only one character) to the new users as well, despite new information about that subject. That is plain wrong. The databooks are only correct for the chapters they're covering. Every subject after that can only be explained by a databook statement if there was no new information about that subject.
And the same usually holds true for other similar supplemental reading for manga 'n such that were created to summarize prior events. The only one I know of that hasn't presented this kind of issue has been Dragon Ball's Daizenshū, and that's probably only due to the fact that they were done after the manga's conclusion.
Ironically, I checked the Japanese original of the databook text and I think there's some room for interpretation. The sentence in question doesn't mention the word "jutsu". It only says
The power of a wild god, dwelling only in those who seized/grasped/held both... that is "Susanoo".
The only problem is that the word both can refer to either the techniques or both eyes... however, the only other statement is Sasuke's, which is pretty clear.
As I mentioned before, not all Susanoō ended up as "sword and shield bearing aragami" either.
Early fan translations have also been known to be quite misleading, with liberties taken, and the original meaning lost . Take, for example, the entry for Kakashi's Kamui: it lead a bunch of forum-goers that had nothing but these hastily done translations to work with believing that Kamui could be invoked by anyone with a Mangekyō Sharingan through constant development of one's chakra, when all that statement did was describe what Kakashi was doing when we first saw him use it in Part 2: gathering chakra in preparation of it.
There are still a quite a few who still believe that to this day... Just like there are still many who are still under the impression that Itachi gave all of his Mangekyō Sharingan techniques to Sasuke; you seemed to be one of them.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Isn't it possible Kakashi bypassed the two techniques requirement because the two Sharingan he possesses developed within different people/bodies? Sure, they both belonged to Obito originally, and the Mangekyo activated at the same time, but is it too much of a stretch to say that their reuniting triggered Susanoo? Especially considering the far fetched manner in which they were reactivated through ghost dimension stuff in the first place.
I just want to say that I hate Susanoo.
I hate the idea behind it, I hate how it looks, I hate that it somehow comes from the sharingan, and I hate what it did to Sasukes fighting style.
To me, Susanoo spam is 100X worse then Rasengan spam.
I'm just completely fucking sick of looking at it.
I hate the idea behind it, I hate how it looks, I hate that it somehow comes from the sharingan, and I hate what it did to Sasukes fighting style.
To me, Susanoo spam is 100X worse then Rasengan spam.
I'm just completely fucking sick of looking at it.
At least Sasuke and Madara had the Eien no Mangekyō Sharingan, and familiarity with the technique as an excuse to use it that way. They were the only two Uchiha that could advance their eyes, and consequently that technique to those states; everybody else had to worry about the constraints of the Mangekyō Sharingan, and their eventual burn out.
Kakashi gets two Mangekyō Sharingan with the same power, after being possessed by Obito's chakra, and can instantly whip out a perfect, stabilized version of it.
SO bitter. Killed my interest in this manga; eye lasers were one of the few remaining topics I still cared about.
Kakashi gets two Mangekyō Sharingan with the same power, after being possessed by Obito's chakra, and can instantly whip out a perfect, stabilized version of it.
SO bitter. Killed my interest in this manga; eye lasers were one of the few remaining topics I still cared about.
Yeah I've been following Naruto since like 2003 or so, and have generally been fine with it during its twists and turns (only arc I remember boring me as I read it was the Sai & Sasuke one) but this is probably the first chapter where I was actually like, mad.
In fact, I've kind of hated everything involving Obito in this manga since he was revealed to be the man behind the mask, just don't like what that character has brought to the series and this was like the ultimate peak of it all. lol
In fact, I've kind of hated everything involving Obito in this manga since he was revealed to be the man behind the mask, just don't like what that character has brought to the series and this was like the ultimate peak of it all. lol
There was a fan made comic long ago that had Kakashi as the ultimate ninja because he had Byakugan on his right eye, and the Sharingan on his left eye.
And this was pre-shippuuden.
It's ridiculous how on the money he was with it (ie. Madara and Obito with Rinnegan and Sharingan or Kaguya with Byakugan and Rinnegan/Sharingan combo).
And this was pre-shippuuden.
It's ridiculous how on the money he was with it (ie. Madara and Obito with Rinnegan and Sharingan or Kaguya with Byakugan and Rinnegan/Sharingan combo).
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
You talkin' about those comics from Shroomsday? With the eyes that looked like they were about to pop 'n stuff? XD
Black Zetsu turned out to be the shadow puppet of the Sage of the Six Path's mother, Kaguya. Betrays Madara, and uses his body along with all the chakra gathered from the populace via Mugen Tsukuyomi as a catalyst to revive her.
[EDIT] - Dang it! Did it again...
It seems more about chakra. Obito's eye was probably trying to run on Obito's chakra, so when it was transplanted in Kakashi's face it didn't line up correctly. That's probably why EMS only happens when swapping between siblings, chakra over blood.
Go read, we want to see your reaction.
If you want a spoiler
Kakashi got Obito's sharingan powers and now has his own Susanoo, it flies.
King Kakashi reclaimed the throne.
The efficacy the Uchiha's dōjutsu were implied to be limited when used by recipients that were incompatible with them, and non-Uchiha.
Tsukuyomi was said to be impossible to dispel to those who weren't true Sharingan successors.
... That's all I can recall that's been said to that effect.
flintstryker
Banned
I am with you brah not only do I hate it but I also find it ridiculously unimpressive
I would have vastly preferred if every Mangekyo Sharingan was like Itachi's.
Each get the sun power, and the moon power, and there was no Susanoo.
Kakshi had a mutation and a lesser power because he was not a true Uchiha and was never supposed to be able to unlock the MS.
And the Rinnegan just stayed its own weird thing that had nothing to do with the Sharingan.
It was always weird to me that Sauske got Kagutsuchi as his other power, he very rarely ever used it, and to be honest, there is no reason why it's function couldn't have been baked into Amaterasu.
Everything about the Sharingan just got so over designed and weird, Kishi just couldn't stop himself.
Each get the sun power, and the moon power, and there was no Susanoo.
Kakshi had a mutation and a lesser power because he was not a true Uchiha and was never supposed to be able to unlock the MS.
And the Rinnegan just stayed its own weird thing that had nothing to do with the Sharingan.
It was always weird to me that Sauske got Kagutsuchi as his other power, he very rarely ever used it, and to be honest, there is no reason why it's function couldn't have been baked into Amaterasu.
Everything about the Sharingan just got so over designed and weird, Kishi just couldn't stop himself.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Kakashi straight ballin got everyone trippin. I almost hope next issue when Kakashi explains how he did it he just says something really troll ish in his typical aloof way.
"Oh...this? Got lucky I guess ^_^"
"Oh...this? Got lucky I guess ^_^"
"Kakashi sensei! Your eyes!"
"Oh? Impressed? When you read as much I do, you kind of need to have good eyes."
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Sasuke: How did you get the Mangekyō Sharingan and the Susanoo?!!?!?!?!?
Kakashi: "huh?"
so many possibilities
Oh fine.
- Did Sakura activate the thing on her head?
- "Naruto...can you float?!"
"hm?"
Oh god the delivery there lol.
- Obito coming back to give Kakashi Pinnochio was cool.
So Naruto's next in line for the sharingan right?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Bro, Naruto is so above the sharingan. He can probably create one if he wanted to.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
He'll just get a Bijuugan or something, which will be 100x better than Sharingan in every way.
The Silver
Member
If only Aizen was here, he'd show those amatuers Obito and Kakashi what real trolling is
Can't wait until Gato shows up, revealing that he isn'T dead and planned everything since the beginning.
Naruto doesn't even need some special eyes anymore. He was Jesus-Naruto for a while. He has now ascended to Kami-Naruto. He gave Kakashi a new eye, brought Gai back from the brink of death, talk no jutsu'ed a guy who turned to the dark side after being cockblocked, and held his own for a while against a god while the Sauce was stuck in a different dimension. If he can giveth, he can surely taketh away!
Praise be to the Ramen God!
Who even needs a stupid doujutsu when you got the most powerful jutsu in your arsenal, the OP Talk no Jutsu?
Look what happened to the Sauce! All one needs to do is compare Pre-Shippuden Sasuke to current Sasuke. Heck, compare Pre-Taka Sasuke to current Sasuke. What the hell happened to Chidori Nagashi? Kirin? All the other Chidori bullshit he came up with? It's all Susanoo and Amaterasu now. Mostly, Susanoo. Heck, his clan is also know for their fire jutsus, what the hell happened to that?
But seriously, what the hell happened to Kirin? All that buildup just to use it once and never again. Really, Kishi?
Praise be to the Ramen God!
Who even needs a stupid doujutsu when you got the most powerful jutsu in your arsenal, the OP Talk no Jutsu?
And Orioke too. 
But seriously, what the hell happened to Kirin? All that buildup just to use it once and never again. Really, Kishi?
Zantetsuken
Member
Databooks are so out of date it's not funny.
I agree with you on the MS. Just like Madara getting both his eyes back and gaining more power with the Rinnegan, no reason Kakashi shouldnt do the same with two Sharingan now
I agree with you on the MS. Just like Madara getting both his eyes back and gaining more power with the Rinnegan, no reason Kakashi shouldnt do the same with two Sharingan now
He's used Chidori Eisō a few times in this battle already. Nagashi and Senbon have been severely underutilized, though.
And Amaterasu creates the ultimate fire, Enton, that Sasuke manipulates with Kagutsuchi, so he hasn't really abandoned his fire jutsu; the normal variety just doesn't cut it at this level anymore.
Most people will probably tell you that Kirin requires too much prep, but there's really not much to it beyond actually triggering, and hastening the formation of the cumulonimbus clouds; which Sasuke can easily do since he has free reign over Enton. Honestly, since the technique was devised for the specific purpose of ending Itachi, Kishimoto probably just made it a one-off thing.
And Amaterasu creates the ultimate fire, Enton, that Sasuke manipulates with Kagutsuchi, so he hasn't really abandoned his fire jutsu; the normal variety just doesn't cut it at this level anymore.
Most people will probably tell you that Kirin requires too much prep, but there's really not much to it beyond actually triggering, and hastening the formation of the cumulonimbus clouds; which Sasuke can easily do since he has free reign over Enton. Honestly, since the technique was devised for the specific purpose of ending Itachi, Kishimoto probably just made it a one-off thing.
I'm with you bro. Sasuke was at his best when he had Orochimaru's powers. He was such a beast. Since he obtained the Mangekyou, all he's ever done is spamming Amaterasu and Susano'o. So disappointing.
The Silver
Member
Sasuke's susanoo should've been cloaked in black flames and its method of attack would be launching out Kirin's like Zeus.
Instead he has the same boring thing like Madara except smaller, doesn't even have his arrows anymore, smh Kishi.
Kakashi's susanoo better be able to phase, we don't need another boring mecha that just slashes things.
Instead he has the same boring thing like Madara except smaller, doesn't even have his arrows anymore, smh Kishi.
Kakashi's susanoo better be able to phase, we don't need another boring mecha that just slashes things.
God, I remember the discussions back then when it was all about Sasuke's Kirin vs Naruto's Rasenshuriken. So many discussions had about what would happen if the two jutsus ever collided. I miss those days.
That jutsu shouldn't be a one-off. Naruto's Rasenshuriken was deemed a forbidden jutsu yet he's been using it like there is no tomorrow. Mind you, he has been using it while cloaked in Kurama's chakra or while in Sage mode. But still, Kirin shouldn't be a one-off. Imagine a Kirin-enhanced Rasenshuriken launched at Kaguya. Now that would be cool.
That jutsu shouldn't be a one-off. Naruto's Rasenshuriken was deemed a forbidden jutsu yet he's been using it like there is no tomorrow. Mind you, he has been using it while cloaked in Kurama's chakra or while in Sage mode. But still, Kirin shouldn't be a one-off. Imagine a Kirin-enhanced Rasenshuriken launched at Kaguya. Now that would be cool.
I like this. Also RIP Kirin. We hardly knew you
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