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[Frecklestein]

All red everything, including the faces in the crowd.

 

[JavyOO7]

They try to make stars by making it important to take a star's mask. Whoever finally takes Atlantis' mask is gonna be big

What I'm trying to say is I don't think he's ever losing it.

 

[Striker]

That was incredible heat, and one shitty promo.

And then you have someone who can't talk, wrestle or act as your champion, and you had your most popular face lose to someone who can't wrestle.

This isn't a Bo Dallas situation here.

Kelly Kelly still works for them?

 

[Heroman]

If eva could talk it she could use that heat to beautiful things.

 

[Anth0ny]

holy fuck, just realized how awesome Reigns would be with Eva Marie as his manager. both of them just cutting 20 minute promos at the start of every raw. heel heat all day.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

She can't even thibk on her feet. Her message was "we're fighting next week" and yet she had to shit the fucking crowd up so she could stick to her script.

Unbelievable.



Dogshit, sunny. You're better and smarter than that. She has no place in the business. That's why they dog her, not because she has the acting skills to draw heat.

You make the most of what you have. Eva Marie is making the most of very little and doing a fantastic job.

 

[Ithil]

They try to make stars by making it important to take a star's mask. Whoever finally takes Atlantis' mask is gonna be big

Problem is he's taking all the masks of the younger guys who might have built up their own in time. Like La Sombra, unmasked at 25. At 45 his mask could have been legendary.
I get Atlantis is the top mask left, but what happens after he's unmasked or retires masked? There's not many masks left on his level and they're not doing much to make some.

 

[Heel]

#heel

Finally something decent to come out of "Full Sail University"

Looking forward to Eva rolling her up for the title next week. #heat

 

[travislopes]

She can't even thibk on her feet. Her message was "we're fighting next week" and yet she had to shit the fucking crowd up so she could stick to her script.

Unbelievable.

She couldn't even shut the crowd up. I was sitting second row at that show and could not hear one word she said during that whole promo. I was surprised that even Bayley couldn't get the crowd to calm down. The match at tomorrow's taping is going to be something else.

 

[Ithil]

You make the most of what you have. Eva Marie is making the most of very little and doing a fantastic job.

Eva Marie isn't doing shit, that's the problem. Whoever is booking her is making the most of what little they have, that's for sure, but she's contributing nothing.

Imagine what Rock would have done with a crowd that hated him that much. Hell, he did deal with crowds that hated him that much, it's what turned him into the Rock. She's just standing there with an occasional rote arm raise, then restarting her promo word for word.
Bo Dallas was in the exact same position as Eva in 2013, and did much much more with it.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Eva Marie isn't doing shit, that's the problem. Whoever is booking her is making the most of what little they have, that's for sure, but she's contributing nothing.

Imagine what Rock would have done with a crowd that hated him that much. Hell, he did deal with crowds that hated him that much, it's what turned him into the Rock. She's just standing there with an occasional rote arm raise, then restarting her promo word for word.
Bo Dallas was in the exact same position as Eva in 2013, and did much much more with it.

Comparing Eva Marie to the Rock. smh

 

[fader]

Eva Marie isn't doing shit, that's the problem. Whoever is booking her is making the most of what little they have, that's for sure, but she's contributing nothing.

Imagine what Rock would have done with a crowd that hated him that much. Hell, he did deal with crowds that hated him that much, it's what turned him into the Rock. She's just standing there with an occasional rote arm raise, then restarting her promo word for word.
Bo Dallas was in the exact same position as Eva in 2013, and did much much more with it.

she literally has no talent in pro wrestling. I never thought I would ever say that about someone.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Here's a crazy thing. She's in developmental.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Here's a crazy thing. She's in developmental.

She wasn't part of the indiez, you're not allowed to say anything positive about her.

 

[KingBroly]

Here's a crazy thing. She's in developmental.

Only because she's fucking terrible. She was on the Main Roster and treated as a star there. She's a lost cause as a wrestler.

 

[dream]

Genuinely surprised that Dave is so appalled by the Charlotte Flair angle in this week's Observer, especially when he does a mini-history of how sleazy pro wrestling has been in exploiting the deaths of talent:

Anyone can have accidental bad judgment and make a wrong call under pressure. When everyone has it, it's not accidental, and when it continues after the fact, as of this writing there has been no apology for it, it's no less low-rent tackiness when Joe Dusek killed his promotion in Omaha in 1972 by having Ramon Torres come to town for revenge on The Claw for killing his brother (who collapsed and died while in the ring with The Claw, who actually had nothing to do with his death), or when Atsushi Onita had Jose Gonzalez "stab him" in the chest to set up an angle for Japan after Gonzalez had murdered Japanese favorite Bruiser Brody a few years earlier. In fact, it's identical to the 1985 angle where Michael Hayes teased Mike Graham about his father being weak just a few months after his father had committed suicide. While nobody will say where the idea came from, and it really doesn't matter because good or bad, Vince McMahon is the one with the responsibility for what airs, one of the key guys in creative did an identical angle 30 years ago. And Hayes was the one who argued with Mick Foley in 2007 when Foley thought the Vince McMahon fake death angle on Raw was inappropriate because the industry had so many real deaths, not to mention Sherri Martel had just passed away at the time. Fate destroyed that angle as Chris Benoit killed his wife, son and himself just as the McMahon angle was getting going, and the company realized immediately they could not even consider continuing it.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

You don't have to be a great wrestler to find success in the wrestling business. It's ok. You guys can give her some credit. The fact that she can pull that kind of heat is awesome.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Just because it's history doesn't mean you should be proud of it. Nobody's proud of Hitler or the KKK

G-d, one thing I am proud of is how much people this whole "debate" has led me to Ignore. It's freeing in a way

 

[dream]

Just because it's history doesn't mean you should be proud of it. Nobody's proud of Hitler or the KKK

G-d, one thing I am proud of is how much people this whole "debate" has led me to Ignore. It's freeing in a way

But at the same time, you're not going to go to a Klan rally and be shocked at the rampant racism, are you? Pro wrestling is trash, and Dave knows it. I'm surprised he let himself forget it for a moment.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Lol you're really blocking people that were fine with Charlottes promo? Huh.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

But at the same time, you're not going to go to a Klan rally and be shocked at the rampant racism, are you? Pro wrestling is trash, and Dave knows it. I'm surprised he let himself forget it for a moment.

This is the first time WWE's invoked death in an angle on TV since the Bearer thing horrified the family (without their permission, to the defense of nobody but fucking vultures). Nobody should have expected something like this. Period.

 

[The Silver]

That Eva Marie promo was fantastic. Huge amount of heat without saying a word. She's fantastic at this. She has it down pat. Worked that Full Sail crowd so hard, I love it.

Nah she didn't work the crowd, it's that she's so damn bad at working the crowd it circles back around to the crowd getting worked. I don't even know what to do with that, if she ever became good at wrestling and at trying to get heat then she actually risks losing some of her insane heat since smarks recognize hard work. Regardless right now she just isn't skilled enough to do anything with the heat besides just having it, might as well run with it and milk Full Sail for all it's worth.


On the main roster they would have to debut her in a heavy smark city if they want that heat to carry over. Corpus would be dead silent for her but if it became "cool" to boo her, like if beforehand New York shakes the building with boos then she could have something.

 

[slightconfuse]

You don't have to be a great wrestler to find success in the wrestling business. It's ok. You guys can give her some credit. The fact that she can pull that kind of heat is awesome.

Full sail working themselves into a shoot inst anything to build on.

She has to earned this hate at all.

 

[Professor Beef]

You don't have to be a great wrestler to find success in the wrestling business. It's ok. You guys can give her some credit. The fact that she can pull that kind of heat is awesome.

Your troll game is better than this.

 

[dream]

This is the first time WWE's invoked death in an angle on TV since the Bearer thing horrified the family (without their permission, to the defense of nobody but fucking vultures). Nobody should have expected something like this. Period.

Dave actually address that:

The exploiting the death of Guerrero was a lot worse because it wasn't one segment, but over and over, for months. A lot of talent was privately furious, particularly Guerrero's closest friends in the company. Chris Benoit, in particular, told friends he had a hard time dealing with it and the idea he was working for a company that would do that. Yet at the same time, publicly, when asked, would defend the company and say he didn't see what a big deal it was. But right or wrong, the company could use the justification that Eddy's widow, Vickie, was okay with it, and some of his brothers, including Chavo and Mando, were nonchalant about it, saying that's just how the business is. Hector privately had different views at the time, but publicly didn't say anything. In the exploitation of Moody, one of his sons at first publicly complained about it, but then, after talking with WWE, stopped being critical.

 

[Bluekaveli]

here's the eva marie promo

That bitch is trash.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Dave Meltzer: finally changes the site design to look great, but still can't get someone to edit his stuff before he submits the newsletter

The typoes and commas get overwhelming at times

 

[Hex]

Looking forward to Eva rolling her up for the title next week. #heat

She would botch it up and Bailey would have to try and stay in the roll up position for about six minutes while Eva figured out where she was and what she was doing.

 

[sf2fanatic]

Dave Meltzer: finally changes the site design to look great, but still can't get someone to edit his stuff before he submits the newsletter

The typoes and commas get overwhelming at times

Someone needs a job being a proofreader? Would be great inside scoop.

 

[Cheetos is Pretty Awesome]

Yeah Raw may 20 2002, ep 469, right before and during booker t and goldust vs the Hardy boyz.

Just watched it, WHAT THE FUCK at the victim blaming shit during the davey boy smith tribute package before the show

"yeah he was kind of a drug addict lol. rip tho"

 

[dream]

To be fair, Davey Boy was a bit of a shit who used to rape and beat his wife.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Also, the stuff with Punk and the ashes was not only great entertainment and storytelling, but it was never implied that those were the ashes of Paul Moody, man and father, but of Paul Bearer, a fictional character that WWE owns the rights to. Granted, the relationship between character and performer is different in wrestling than elsewhere, but ultimately, WWE had no legal nor ethical obligation to seek the blessing of anybody, and those who knew Moody said that he would have absolutely loved such a gleefully trashy angle.

Again, I don't have a problem with thinking the WWE is owned and operated by scum, but if you're so viscerally affected, on a moral level, by this, how can you stand any pro wrestling at all, when there is no absence of immorality at virtually any level of the industry? The WWE is the most visible and talked-about since WCW died, but the entire industry is built around exploiting real harm being incurred by human bodies for the purposes of fictional narratives, and has largely attracted the caliber of person you might expect for such an endeavor.

 

[Plywood]

here's the eva marie promo

I'm surprised they were never this harsh towards Paige or Becky on the mic.

 

[Hex]

I'm surprised they were never this harsh towards Paige or Becky on the mic.

Have you just been...I don't know....away or something?
Eva is hated for many reasons, if you genuinely thing that they are just on her for her mic work there then I really do not know what to say but maybe a sheet somewhere can tell the story for you.
Eva is a disaster on top of a disaster.
She is Roman Reigns with no ability at all and even less mic skill and they are trotting her out there still because someone back there I guess is mistaking stark raving hatred for heel heat.

 

[dream]

Also, the stuff with Punk and the ashes was not only great entertainment and storytelling, but it was never implied that those were the ashes of Paul Moody, man and father, but of Paul Bearer, a fictional character that WWE owns the rights to. Granted, the relationship between character and performer is different in wrestling than elsewhere, but ultimately, WWE had no legal nor ethical obligation to seek the blessing of anybody, and those who knew Moody said that he would have absolutely loved such a gleefully trashy angle.

Again, I don't have a problem with thinking the WWE is owned and operated by scum, but if you're so viscerally affected, on a moral level, by this, how can you stand any pro wrestling at all, when there is no absence of immorality at virtually any level of the industry? The WWE is the most visible and talked-about since WCW died, but the entire industry is built around exploiting real harm being incurred by human bodies for the purposes of fictional narratives, and has largely attracted the caliber of person you might expect for such an endeavor.

I think a big part of this outrage stems from people not wanting wrestling to be what it really is. If wrestling fans had to acknowledge to themselves that they are spending hours of their weeks watching a bottom-feeding, exploitative form of what is essentially smut, they would find themselves implicated in the entire enterprise.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I think a big part of this outrage stems from people not wanting wrestling to be what it really is. If wrestling fans had to acknowledge to themselves that they are spending hours of their weeks watching a bottom-feeding, exploitative form of what is essentially smut, they would find themselves implicated in the entire enterprise.

The thing is, I don't see wrestling as particularly MORE harmful than any other industry, just more visibly lowest common denominator and shitty. Vince McMahon is clearly an amoral nut, but is he really worse for the world than bankers that crash the economy, energy CEOs that defraud investors out of millions, military contractors, CEOs that bury scientific research, etc.? No way. Shit, I work for a company that specializes in selling shit-tons of cheap clothing and electronics manufactured and/or mined by hundreds of thousands of workers getting paid jack shit, which is far worse than anything McMahon has done, no?

 

[Bluekaveli]

Weird that Vince referred to IRS as Mr. Rotunda on this episode.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

People comparing Roman Reigns, a rising star with a lot of natural talent who has been learning and improving for some time to Eva Marie, someone with her own set of challenges. That sounds so incredibly stupid to draw similarities to, and when I see people STILL irrationally down on Reigns despite him being in some legitimately scorching matches as of late, all I can figure is that the person saying it has listened to one too many CM Punk podcasts. Honestly that's all I've got. He told a bunch of smarks who to hate and you're just following.

 

[Anth0ny]

bauer and pollock covered the whole situation really well today.

barely any of this "heel heat" is even on paige. it's all on the company. it's on vince. that's how you know it's the wrong way to get heat.

 

[dream]

The thing is, I don't see wrestling as particularly MORE harmful than any other industry, just more visibly lowest common denominator and shitty. Vince McMahon is clearly an amoral nut, but is he really worse for the world than bankers that crash the economy, energy CEOs that defraud investors out of millions, military contractors, CEOs that bury scientific research, etc.? No way. Shit, I work for a company that specializes in selling shit-tons of cheap clothing and electronics manufactured and/or mined by hundreds of thousands of workers getting paid jack shit, which is far worse than anything McMahon has done, no?

Yeah, I'm with you. But I don't think we can plot this stuff out on a spectrum of morality. You can easily make a case for WWE being fairly harmless because most of their poison is self-contained, and in the real world, nobody really gives a shit about pro wrestling.

But I think it's important for the WWE Universe to not lose sight of what it is they're actually supporting, despite Vince's attempts at trying to convince people that pro wrestling is actually middlebrow entertainment. It's not. It really is bottom-feeding bullshit. The term "carny" isn't used as a term of endearment. Their entire raison d'etre is to make money by fleecing the rubes, and the entire system is set up to destroy the bodies and lives of "talent" in order to do so.

 

[Frecklestein]

Just be careful what you say about the dead, you never know who will sneak up behind you in the shower

 

[Bluekaveli]

Just be careful what you say about the dead, you never know who will sneak up behind you in the shower

The Undertaker?

 

[Hex]

People comparing Roman Reigns, a rising star with a lot of natural talent who has been learning and improving for some time to Eva Marie, someone with her own set of challenges. That sounds so incredibly stupid to draw similarities to, and when I see people STILL irrationally down on Reigns despite him being in some legitimately scorching matches as of late, all I can figure is that the person saying it has listened to one too many CM Punk podcasts. Honestly that's all I've got. He told a bunch of smarks who to hate and you're just following.

Get over yourself, I think you buy into your gimmick in here a bit too much.
There is a very direct comparison between them, and that is a straight shoot.
They are both talents who have the eye of the suits in the back who are pushing them into the spotlight.
They both have issues with the mic.
They both have issues in the ring.
Reigns has had alot more time in the ring and he has very much come a long way, and I do not hate him at all and I think he will go a long way some day but he is still very boring as hell in the ring. Even Cena flows better and can make his move set more natural and Roman is getting better and will get there.
Saying horse shit like people only have issues with him because of some podcast is just asinine and makes you look like you are trying too hard.

The Undertaker?

He can't sneak up on anyone, the gong and shit gives it away.
That and the knees popping.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

The Undertaker?

Not in your case, you'll get Doink to emerge out of a container of baby wipes

 

[Bluekaveli]

Not in your case, you'll get Doink to emerge out of a container of baby wipes

Go to bed damnit

 

[Discotheque]

does anybody here actually enjoy bray wyatt's promos? i gotta say the gimmick is cool and everything but dear god these 5 minute entrances and cornball speeches are just terrible.

that undertaker/kane eulogy was so damn boring. (i'm a little behind on raw, will watch this week's soon)

 

[Deleted member 47027]

does anybody here actually enjoy bray wyatt's promos? i gotta say the gimmick is cool and everything but dear god these 5 minute entrances and cornball speeches are just terrible.

that undertaker/kane eulogy was so damn boring.

I do and I'll probably always be a fan of Bray's. I can't help it. I just like him.

 

[Professor Beef]

does anybody here actually enjoy bray wyatt's promos? i gotta say the gimmick is cool and everything but dear god these 5 minute entrances and cornball speeches are just terrible.

that undertaker/kane eulogy was so damn boring. (i'm a little behind on raw, will watch this week's soon)

He's got a way of saying absolutely nothing in the span of 5-10 minutes. That's a talent, I guess.

 

[Frecklestein]

Go to bed damnit

 

[Angry Grimace]

does anybody here actually enjoy bray wyatt's promos? i gotta say the gimmick is cool and everything but dear god these 5 minute entrances and cornball speeches are just terrible.

that undertaker/kane eulogy was so damn boring. (i'm a little behind on raw, will watch this week's soon)

Sure 2 years ago