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Naughty Dog made female characters less feminine to be trans friendly (No Spoilers)

Jbomb19

Member
The issue is they made Ellie ugly as well. Hell they have made every female character I have seen associated with the game ugly.

you can have a second screen next to your TV hat plays footage of hot women as you play Last of Us 2. your problem solved. or whenever their is a cut scene full of people not to your liking, you can take tape up photos you cut from magazines over their faces. adapt. improvise. overcome.
 
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Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Oh please, go the fucking gym and see. Check out a crossfit competition, etc

Women can be very muscular. These fucking snowflakes gets so triggered at the sight of physical strength in a woman, it's pathetic. You would think ND had modeled a woman after Dwayne Jonhson or something.

And if that's somehow the norm now, and "women no longer look like women" in games, put up or shut up. "Oh it's the norm now" Oh is it? Where?
Yeah but Crossfit chicks are thicc.
1*aUu1yUdkFOfrumpal-jNXA.png
 

Jbomb19

Member
What? She looks, totally fine. Like, just totally fine.
Her girlfriend looks good too.

I'm not saying they are literally perfection but she's definitely not ugly. Are you sure you didn't just see her with really bad lighting or something?

sxSwBuU.png

I think people like him want the full face of makeup/contour, hair done, etc. look, which would be so weird in the world of LOU. frankly seeing all the ladies have ponytails or sensible hair styles is realistic AF. there are bloaters and cannibals! I dont have time for my hair getting in my face!
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
I don't go see movies with ugly main characters in it, nor will I play games that feature them. I just want to see attractive people most of the time. Sorry, but that is my thing. I felt like Horizon Zero Dawn got it right. Aloy isnt super hot but she is believably attractive and the rest of her people are reasonably attractive too. Like I have said, most people in your game should be attractive as that matches the real world.

latest


Ellie almost looks like a grey alien in that top gif.
 
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DaMonsta

Member
Nope, miss me with that. There is a very select group of people who a definition of "politics" which is VASTLY different to the majority of the regular population's definition of "politics". Now, these days it may seem the former's definition holds given all the infusion of political bodies, think-tanks, bodies etc into entertainment (we can just call this propaganda because that's basically what it is), but it doesn't change the fact that politics as the way we see it in today's environment, is not inherent to entertainment as a whole.
I’m not those people. Address what I actually said.

The people in this thread talking about “politics” are those in opposition of black, gay, strong women being in thematic situations they deem unrealistic.

From my perspective, that’s just as much “politics” as anything else.


Also there's a ton of conflation by those select cliques of people as to what is considered political, as they've retroactively designated many philosophical and idealistic concepts (which maybe had slight political musings into them but of a different time and era) as fitting the mold of what they consider to be political in current-year.
I agree. To me the existence of gay, black, buff, women in any setting isn’t “political” but here we are.



A lot of the stuff people refer to when they compare something to be a Citizen Kane equivalent is more to do with storytelling techniques and devices the work uses within its medium to tell a story/narrative effectively and, supposedly, in ways other work before it has not managed to do.
TBH I always felt that designation a bit much high praise for TLOU, because you can certainly point to survival-horror games with more engaging stories, or 3rd-person action/adventure games with better gunplay, gameplay loops, mechanics etc. Granted, it's also about a "whole great the sum of its parts" kind of deal, can't necessarily take all the elements in isolation from one another.
No way you could possibly argue the story to Citizen Kaine isn’t “political”

Same with TLOU. Think about our current reality with Coronavirus. TLOU definitely explored the moral and political implications of society dealing with such an event.

Look I don't want to get into the whole percentages BS (because some people use it as a means of asking why certain people should even be in a story, when that's something they don't hold against, say, dragons or gremlins, neither of which exist whatsoever in the real world), but you're dealing with a country that's 60+ % white. Most of the people in these positions are white, and it's just going to naturally gravitate that way...
I agree, but it doesn’t mean there’s some nefarious political agenda when other demographics are gravitated to.
...because that hasn't stopped me from enjoying plenty of media that had no minorities or LGBT people in it, or only had a small handful. My favorite war film of all time is Come and See, a Russian film. Not a single non-white in there, doesn't matter. One of my favorite cyberpunk films is Tetsuo; 100% Japanese cast, not even a white person in there, let alone another minority. Doesn't matter, movie is still all kinds of awesome.

I may not be white, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy works with a majority or exclusively-white cast. I may not be gay, but two of Gregg Araki's movies (Doom Generation and Mysterious Skin) are among my (vast) stable of damn good movies. It also means I can still appreciate stuff that might be majority-minority without needing to somehow claim it's a sin when something comes out with few or no minorities in it. I can go from watching Squeeze or Juice, to something like Gattaca and maybe watch something like Pulp Fiction after that. Just treating them as three awesome flicks, I don't need some sudden influx of a bunch of white people in Juice, or a bunch of black people in Gattaca, to even consider enjoying those movies.
I’m not white and agree I’ve learned to enjoy plenty of media despite the fact that it purposely caters to people not like me.

In what, exactly? Because there's actually tons of media with LGBT people in them AND creating them, some of it quite good in fact. I mentioned Gregg Araki movies earlier, and you've got other movies like Dandy Dust too. Fun movies, very LGBT-focused at that. There's been quite a lot of LGBT themes and characters in games; you can even go back to the '90s and find games with gay characters in them like Phantasmagoria 2 (and the gay guy there is actually one of the best characters in the whole game, probably the most fleshed out too).

To me all this stuff about under/misrepresentation just seems to be due to people feeling they don't have "the big one". It doesn't matter to them if they can get all of that in arguably more creative, albeit smaller and less-mainstream, works. No, it ONLY matters if they get the big representation in the SUPER-mainstream stuff. Which, more often than not, tends to be the safest, least creatively engaging work out there (doesn't mean it can't be entertaining, of course).
There’s not even an argument to be made that straight white males aren’t over represented in the media. It’s what it is, you just admitted it yourself.

Everyone else just wants a piece of that.

No, because too many hack creators these days actually DO compromise a story's natural integrity for a forced political narrative, and they have a big tendency to do so when making a work revolving around some minority group. Actually just having minorities in a work would be no problem if said work didn't do so at the expense of putting down "the privileged", but with these hacks, they can't seemingly lift EVERYONE up.
This is what I’m talking about. When the story caters to white males it’s “natural”

When it caters to anyone else it’s “hack creators” and their divisiveness.

Why can’t it just be creators trying to tell different stories?

Nope, in order to lift up Group A, they have to put down Group B. It's all very intentional in these types of works, and it's called divide-and-conquer.
How is group A(presumably white males) being put down by group b(presumably black, female, gay,) existing?

There’s nothing in this game or any game I can think of that paints straight white males as inherently bad. But I could think of plenty that paint every one else as the villain.

Why do you only consider it “divide and conquer” when it goes in one direction?
Depends on if the groups involved just happen to incidentally be those things and such things aren't literally defining their existence in the score of a fictional piece of work.

If it doesn't, then no, I don't see the problem. If it does, then yes, it's a BIG problem. And that would go towards BOTH of your examples.
Storys can go both ways. Some characters are defined by their personal demographics. Some aren’t.

Both are valid in my opinion.

Reality is, one demographic has been over represented historically regardless if their demographic is integral to their story.
 
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Jbomb19

Member
The gaming industry is quickly turning into the TV industry where games are used as a Trojan horse for political agenda's.

If this games turns out the same(which sure ass hel seems like it) they can go to hell

you better not consume any pop culture anymore EVER. Just to be safe. LOCK YOUR DOORS. PUT FOIL OVER YOUR WINDOWS. DONT TRUST THE MAILMAN.
 

Keihart

Member
I don't go see movies with ugly main characters in it, nor will I play games that feature them. I just want to see attractive people most of the time. Sorry, but that is my thing. I felt like Horizon Zero Dawn got it right. Aloy isnt super hot but she is believably attractive and the rest of her people are reasonably attractive too. Like I have said, most people in your game should be attractive as that matches the real world.

latest


Ellie almost looks like a grey alien in that top gif.
Completly honest here, but i think Ellie it's prettier. Aloy has a boxer jaw in comparison, big ears and a wide nose. To each their own tho, i would not call her ugly either.
 
Sadly, it's not just GAF that loves to Trans bait like this. Too many people are still anti-LGBTQ. And right now the most hated out of that group are the "T's". Like you said, no evidence. Why is it so hard for people to also believe that women can build muscle mass too?

Certainly, there are people out there who show aversion to Trans people.

But there are also people who mean no harm whatsoever to Trans people and who have empathy for them but still disagree and hold objections to arguments self-proclaimed Trans activists regularly wage. There seems to be a strange inability to not mistake the two and you have just given your absolute best to continue that dubious tradition.

It's not just either you're a LGBTQ activist or you're a sexist homophobe transphobe.
 

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Completly honest here, but i think Ellie it's prettier. Aloy has a boxer jaw in comparison, big ears and a wide nose. To each their own tho, i would not call her ugly either.
Ellie is too mousy. I don't think Ellen Page is attractive either though (who ellie used to resemble). I'm a more of a Karen Gillan, ScarJo, JLaw man myself ;)


I mean with zero make up ScarJo is still ScarJo

9cee7413030fd5d4e2bcbe3e670dbbc9.jpg


How about a lil Gal
Gal-Gadot.jpg



There is zero reason to intentionally make your main characters ugly unless the story calls for it specifically (as in the hunchback of notre dame). Because it is the apocalypse isn't a good reason.
 
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Keihart

Member
Ellie is too mousy. I don't think Ellen Page is attractive either though (who ellie used to resemble). I'm a more of a Karen Gillan, ScarJo, JLaw man myself ;)
Yeah, sometimes it's preference, i mean, i think that Emma Stone it's hotter than that whole list for example. I bet that she might not be you type either.
So no point really in saying that Ellie got "uglier" she is pretty much in character.
 
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Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Yeah, sometimes it's preference, i mean, i think that Emma Stone it's hotter than that whole list for example. I bet that she might not be you type either.
So no point really in saying that Ellie got "uglier" she is pretty much in character.
Emma stone is one of my favs, love her in just about every movie she has been in. My wife actually looks a lot like her in some ways.
 

Lethal01

Member
I don't go see movies with ugly main characters in it, nor will I play games that feature them. I just want to see attractive people most of the time. Sorry, but that is my thing. I felt like Horizon Zero Dawn got it right. Aloy isnt super hot but she is believably attractive and the rest of her people are reasonably attractive too. Like I have said, most people in your game should be attractive as that matches the real world.

latest


Ellie almost looks like a grey alien in that top gif.

This really just sounds like a matter of the girls not match your personal taste.
The vast majority think Ellie is hot. You are free to disagree but don't pretend Naughty dog is making everyone ugly just because you disagree withmost people on what ugly is.
 

Jbomb19

Member
I don't go see movies with ugly main characters in it, nor will I play games that feature them. I just want to see attractive people most of the time. Sorry, but that is my thing. I felt like Horizon Zero Dawn got it right. Aloy isnt super hot but she is believably attractive and the rest of her people are reasonably attractive too. Like I have said, most people in your game should be attractive as that matches the real world.

latest


Ellie almost looks like a grey alien in that top gif.

 
Ellie is too mousy. I don't think Ellen Page is attractive either though (who ellie used to resemble). I'm a more of a Karen Gillan, ScarJo, JLaw man myself ;)


I mean with zero make up ScarJo is still ScarJo

9cee7413030fd5d4e2bcbe3e670dbbc9.jpg


How about a lil Gal
Gal-Gadot.jpg



There is zero reason to intentionally make your main characters ugly unless the story calls for it specifically (as in the hunchback of notre dame). Because it is the apocalypse isn't a good reason.
Not only that, but it's also suspicious that Naughty Dog modeled one character after the her actress's face and body while for another character, they only model her after her actress's face.
 

sn0man

Member
I will never really understand why these influences need to be implemented into already running franchises. If there's a demand for female protagonists / trans people in games / games centered around non-cis sexuality.... wouldn't a market develop naturally?

Am I insensitive here? :<
You aren't. But I once asked that same question here when there was an example of a trans lead in a new IP and it was called "virtue signaling"

So I feel like there's no winning here.

count me in the weird stuck in the middle crowd. I’d love more games with people of color. Men who identify as women etc.

I would also love for a studio to leave an existing character alone or allow their story arc to form and progress naturally from their previous incarnations.

also... I’m in the “where is the proof/ not getting worked up without information” camp
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
No. They just like to pretend that they are more important than they are. The reason why they have barely any repesentation in games is because they (trans) are 0.58 % of the population. Yet they want 50+ % of all lead characters.
I will never really understand why these influences need to be implemented into already running franchises. If there's a demand for female protagonists / trans people in games / games centered around non-cis sexuality.... wouldn't a market develop naturally?

Am I insensitive here? :<
 

PocoJoe

Banned
This trans-thing just kind of validates the thing that they are just mentally ill people with lot of issues. Or many of them are.

Does male get offended if he plays tomb raider and Lara doesnt look like a man?

Does female get offended if she plays Uncharted and Nathan doesnt look like a woman?

And then these trans-mofos get offended by anything, probably even by dogs and cats as they remind that they used to be hairy men?

10 years ago I didn't think anything bad about "lpgt" people, now I just hate how fucking crazy and selfish they are, raging in their power fantasies and ruining movies, games and series by their "minority must be majority" bullshit.

Fuck anyone whom is so sensitive that they push political agenda instead of fixing their issues.

They are doing good work to make their "boo hoo we are hated!" fiction into reality with their childish selfish attitude.

And I feel sorry for normal lpgt people that dont act like these lunatics
 

Blond

Banned
Its the Black James Bond mentality, why create a new or Similar IP when we can force diversity into things that didn't need it


Can I just say that as a huge Bond fan how weird it is that Bond's had black companions before but the current climate makes this unwanted?

There's a line being drawn and this games helping draw it.
 
Thought this was a parody thread so hadn't clicked it, but just read his excerpt on another blog and come to the sad realisation he actually said this.

How the fuck do people like him get into positions of power, is everybody so scared of being labelled as a somethingaphobe that they ignore all commonsense? For every person who wants uglier women in their games because of their own insecurities, there are 999 other folks who are biologically wired to prefer attractive people.

Heck, I literally buy some games just because they have cute anime girls on the box and look fun. Yet they pour all this effort and people hours into making these massive big-budget titles and don't think twice about doing something that is against the interest of pretty much all their customers.

absolute clown world.
 

OZ9000

Banned
Nobody fucking asked for this. Who wants to play a game with a roided out monkey?

The fact ND is forcing their garbage agenda is also tragic. We've actually got a confirmed trans character in the game called 'Lev'.

In a world where survival is paramount, I don't think anyone would have the time to question their gender.
 
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oagboghi2

Member
No. You are absolutely wrong here. Hell what’s considered “sexy” today is way different than what would have been considered “sexy” just 10 year ago in the western world.

It’s asinine to say beauty standards are consistent over time and cultures.
What?!10 years ago? How old are you that you think 10 years is even a long time.

The beauty standards of 10 years ago are still very much the same today


Not up to me to educate you. It’s just a google away.
In other words, you can't prove your nonsense and you know your wrong.


I didn’t yell at anyone. I’m just speaking on the premise as set by the op and subsequent comments.


He had an “agenda” from the jump.

You guys just realized that agenda doesn’t mesh with your own.
If he has an agenda, than why are you crying that people are opposed to it?

Do you want politics in your games, becuase if you do you should be prepared for the reality that people will disagree. It seems you want it both ways.
 
Is there any proof that they intentionally made women unattractive (which is always subjective) to make trans people feel better about themselves or is this just some anti SJW rant going too far? Trans people make up less than 1% o the population, I want them to be respected and treated equally but going out of your way to make female characters less attractive because some trans people may feel like they aren't as pretty sounds fake as hell to me, if they did that for that reason someone needs to smack whoever made that choice upside the head but I really don't believe it.
 
There's a lot of words here without a single shred of evidence.

But this is Neogaf trans bait so why am I not surprised.
I don't see how any of this isn't plausible. Schreier's biggest inside scoops are solely comprised of "anonymous sources" and he's highly regarded, even here. The biggest difference in this story is it doesn't fit the narrative.

hwnIPGE.gif
 

MacReady13

Member
jesus christ...



This says to me everything wrong with culture today. She is a beautiful women. She has a large-ish nose (who cares???) and that is left in the game but her large bust? Nah, we will take them out. And why? Why take that out but leave basically every other feature intact? Why take away one of the most beautiful things about a women when the character they have modeled this avatar on has large breasts? Is it to please a certain sector of the gaming community? Who are they pandering to?
Going 1 step further, and by doing shit like this, THIS is the reason why people get upset about forced diversity in games. Don't just shove people (male, female, black, asian, muslim etc...) into a game/tv show/movie just to try please and appease a certain sector of the community. Do it if the game/film/show calls for it! I'll be brutally honest- I'm not all that fussed really over TLOU2 leaks like some are. I was at the start after 1st reading them, but i'm curious to see how it will all pan out once I play the game. I DO understand the issue with possibility that that stupid scrag Sarkeesian may have had a say in the story for this game. I have NO issue with personal politics in ANYTHING! Be they subtle or shoved down our throats (a personal fav film of mine is John Carpenter's They Live which is quite obviously shitting on Reagan era politics and it is very in your face whereas John Carpenter's The Thing says something about aids yet doesn't shove it down your throat. I appreciate both styles). I do have an issue when something is changed just to please a certain sector of the audience. Then you go from making something you wanted to creating something to please others... and when does it end? When do the people you try to please stay happy? How much can you change for them until they say we are truly happy? Stop giving in to these people! I see NO representation for me (an Italian/Australian in almost any games/films/tv shows) yet I'm not complaining! I see myself in Ripley in Aliens. I see myself in Spock in Star Trek. I see myself in Flea when I'm jumping around playing air bass! I see myself in all manner of different characters no matter their race, religion or sexuality. Fuck giving into (tiny) mob mentality and make what you want, how you want and damned to anyone who doesn't agree. Art is subjective, so make what you like and stand by it!
 

sneas78

Banned
How come they are not including people that are in wheelchairs who have a disability? People that actually suffer in Real life? What a bunch of fakes. This as bad as cnn scaring people to not ever leave their house, but no one says anything about how we are going to survive without work. What a bunch of fakes.
 
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MacReady13

Member
Sad thing is, for every rational person who can state in proper terms why they are upset at directions taken in TLOU2, there are people that are just downright rude and pathetic.
Case in point, on Neil Drukmann's instagram page he has put up a post he received where someone has written derogatory things about "fags" or "tranny's" or something along those lines. Obviously the person who wrote that is a fucking moron but, what Neil does is he puts that up to show that "everyone" who criticize his game is a homophobic and/or transphobic bigot. When that ain't the case for the vast majority of us AT ALL. It's just that he won't post the sane posts he's received or else that will go against his victimhood narrative. Much like what almost all associated with the Ghostbusters female reboot did... And most of what "journo's" did with gamergate if I'm being brutally honest.
 

Airola

Member
This says to me everything wrong with culture today. She is a beautiful women. She has a large-ish nose (who cares???) and that is left in the game but her large bust? Nah, we will take them out. And why? Why take that out but leave basically every other feature intact? Why take away one of the most beautiful things about a women when the character they have modeled this avatar on has large breasts? Is it to please a certain sector of the gaming community? Who are they pandering to?

Maybe they like smaller tits.

Maybe this is why things are how they are:
1) Some developers like smaller tits. They make smaller tits to women in games to please their desires and fetishes. They can easily do it disguised as "making women more realistic" while the real reason is that they just like smaller tits.
2) Some developers like to watch lesbians kiss. Why? Because it's hot. They can now make all kinds of lesbian kisses and scenarios to please their own desires and fetishes. They can easily do it disguised as "making lgbt people happy" while the real reason is that they get a funny sensation in their penises when they get to make girls make out.

I mean, that's how I would roll if I were a mainstream game developer. And I don't believe real mainstream game developers are somehow less depraved than I am.



And on a whole another note:

She is a beautiful women.


A women.

I've seen this several times in this thread and countless of times in other threads by several posters.
Like, not only sometimes, but really REALLY often.

A women.

What's with that?

A women.


Of a one woman, it's wo m a n.
Of several women, it's wo m e n.

Not that it really matters, but it's weird as hell and has been bugging me for months, if not years by now.
 

PrimeTime

Member
Trans-friendly or not, the real focus should be on how this guy deals with creative diffences with his team....which I would hope wouldn’t lead to firing people just for expressing opinions or having contradictory ones...but is seems like that might be the case.

I’ll vote with my wallet and save $60.
 

Airbus Jr

Banned
This game must failed for everything it stands for

Im going to visit local gamestop and aprehend anyone trying to buy the last of us 2 and stop everyone from buying the game

We had enough of Druckmans in Naughty Dog

He must be removed at all cost
 
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Chittagong

Gold Member
Males really succeeded in scrubbing any female resemblance for significant fictional protagonists under the guise of anti-objectification and pro-transness. Amazing really. The crazy thing is many women are more than fully onboard in their own erasure.
 
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