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NBA 2004 PreSeason Thread
- Thread starter Miguel
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BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
Shit! Some Laker fans are fucking delirious. The Lakers will be hardpressed to win 35 games with the roster they have. No point guards. The front court depth of a kiddie pool and a star that will want all the spotlight on him. Good luck with that mess.
Meanwhile, the Spurs will be gunning for 65+ wins, they´ll have 3 All-Stars, the MVP, the title, Barry will win Sixth Man of the Year and break Kerr´s 3 pt % record. Fact.
Meanwhile, the Spurs will be gunning for 65+ wins, they´ll have 3 All-Stars, the MVP, the title, Barry will win Sixth Man of the Year and break Kerr´s 3 pt % record. Fact.
Cloudy said:
I'd like to know in what universe a consistent 22/13/3 blocks per game are considered "average" numbers. This is to say nothing of his effect on defenses. What, Kobe needs more than that to win a championship? There are only about 3 guys in the league who put up better numbers than that-- which goes back to my point about Kobe not winning more than one more ring unless he's paired with either Duncan or KG (two of the guys with better numbers than the supposedly "average" #'s Shaq put up during the last playoff run). And that one ring certainly isn't going to come this season, I'll guaran-damn-tee you that. They'll be lucky to make it into the second round with the West being what it is; even if they manage to, the second round is as far as they're getting. Trust me.
Lakers will win 50 games. Now that they're not throwing away points at the FT line, they'll be fine 
edit: Loki, I was talking about Shaq's playoff stats. He was extrememly average most games with Karl and even Kobe getting more boards than him many nights. If you don't see that Kobe willed them into the finals, then I dunno what to else to tell ya
Too bad he didn't have much effect on the Lakers pick n roll defense
edit: Loki, I was talking about Shaq's playoff stats. He was extrememly average most games with Karl and even Kobe getting more boards than him many nights. If you don't see that Kobe willed them into the finals, then I dunno what to else to tell ya
Too bad he didn't have much effect on the Lakers pick n roll defense
Poody said:
Fixed.
One shot: game 2 of the Finals. That's all that I can remember.
If you call 24 points on < 44% shooting, < 5 rebounds (and < 3 in the Finals) and 5 assists per game "carrying" a team, then more power to you. Yes, Kobe had a better statistical playoffs than Shaq did (marginally better, but still better), but they were more coequals than you're giving him (Shaq) credit for.
EDIT: Whoops, just noticed that you said he carried them TO the playoffs. Yeah, those Portland shots were nuts; still, with such a team as they had, they shouldn't have even BEEN in that situation against Portland, a perennially underachieving team. I'll let my original post remain as testament to my trigger-happy Laker bashing tendencies.
:lol Konex you thought Shaq had average numbers? Cmon dude, he is not the same player he was a few years ago and he may never get back to that level having wasted 2 seasons by showing up fat and out of shape, but the guy is still a top 5 player in the league. One negative thing I will say about Shaq last year was that he could not play an entire 48 minutes, us not having a backup center really killed us in the playoffs. You could just see Shaq losing his effectiveness at the end of most games, the more minutes he played the more dumb things he would do (especially stupid fouls on defense), and that was clearly because he was tired. I also REALLY disagree with people talking about his huge effect on defese, his defense was garbage last year. To be honest, I really thought Kobe played some garbage defense as well. Shaq used to be feared in the paint by smaller players, the way Wallace, Duncan, and Garnett are now, but that sure as hell isn't the case anymore. Is there is a point guard in the league that doesn't relish the opportunity to go against Shaq? Then again, Kobe wasn't really in his best physical condition last year either, so both of them had that crutch to lean on.
I will agree that Kobe definitely carried the team 'at times' last year, but imho their most valuable player last year was Karl Malone. They couldn't win shit when he wasn't in the game. Both in the playoffs and regular season, the one guy that made it all work was Karl.
About their chances this year, I really have no clue how they will do. I could see a total collapse or I could see them do something spectacular, and hell I think I could see them contend for a ring IF Malone comes back and is in good shape (some huge ifs). I think it is pretty much guaranteed Kobe is going to average some huge numbers this year, but I am more interested in seeing what kind of a TEAM offense and defense they play this year.
And Konex, don't take it so personally that people are knocking Kobe. :lol Cowards always like to knock a guy when he is down, happens to everyone (including Loki's idol Jordan). That criticism is going to continue until Kobe crashes and burns or starts beating everyone. If you win in this country, people forget about everything else.
I will agree that Kobe definitely carried the team 'at times' last year, but imho their most valuable player last year was Karl Malone. They couldn't win shit when he wasn't in the game. Both in the playoffs and regular season, the one guy that made it all work was Karl.
About their chances this year, I really have no clue how they will do. I could see a total collapse or I could see them do something spectacular, and hell I think I could see them contend for a ring IF Malone comes back and is in good shape (some huge ifs). I think it is pretty much guaranteed Kobe is going to average some huge numbers this year, but I am more interested in seeing what kind of a TEAM offense and defense they play this year.
And Konex, don't take it so personally that people are knocking Kobe. :lol Cowards always like to knock a guy when he is down, happens to everyone (including Loki's idol Jordan). That criticism is going to continue until Kobe crashes and burns or starts beating everyone. If you win in this country, people forget about everything else.
Ninja Scooter
Member
recent comments from Shaq:
Oh, only $22 million? Poor baby. FUCK YOU SHAQUILLE. And this pretty much proves Kobe didn't force his ass anywhere, or demand for his ass to be traded. Good riddance, lardass.
Oh, only $22 million? Poor baby. FUCK YOU SHAQUILLE. And this pretty much proves Kobe didn't force his ass anywhere, or demand for his ass to be traded. Good riddance, lardass.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
And the Knicks continue to quietly tear it up in the pre-season...
bionic77 said:
Meh Karl's post-season play was all over the place, at least in terms of points productions... some nights he looked like a rookie he was missing so badly...
2003-2004 13.2
VS. HOUSTON 18.0
VS. SAN ANTONIO 10.0
VS. MINNESOTA 12.0
VS. DETROIT 5.0
Crazy.
DarienA said:
His numbers were not that great, but the Lakers Win-Loss record was terrible when Malone was not playing. They fell apart in the regular season without him and also in the finals. And he tore up his knee at the end of the Minnesota series so his Detroit numbers don't really count. You don't have to put up stats to be a great player, the Lakers didn't seem to know how to run their offense when Karl wasn't on the floor.
Cloudy said:Lakers will win 50 games. Now that they're not throwing away points at the FT line, they'll be fine
edit: Loki, I was talking about Shaq's playoff stats.
Umm, the stats I posted were his playoff stats:
21.5 points, 13.2 rebounds, and 2.8 blocks/game in the playoffs.
Hardly "average" numbers as you claim. Sure, for Shaq (one of the top 5-7 players ever imo), they're low compared to his career stats, but average? Like bionic pointed out, Shaq is STILL a top 5 player with numbers like that. I guess Kobe and the rest of the Lakeshow got used to sucking on the Daddy's teat when he was posting EXTRAORDINARY numbers all those years (frequent back-to-back 40/20 games? Unheard of...except for Shaq), and can't hack it now, with merely "average top 5 player in the NBA Shaq"-- they needed "top 5 all time" Shaq. Tsc tsc.
I didn't say his "effect on defense", I said "his effect on defenses" (as in "other teams' defensive schemes").
He was certainly not the Shaq of 2001 on defense last year, but then again, neither was Kobe (who's overrated on D anyway ).Loki said:
Unfortunately Karl isn't just playing for defense, he's suppose to product points too and he wasn't able to. I can't even count how many times he was given the open J and missed it... and that stuff use to be like clockwork for him. As I said.. his POINTS production was all over the place.
Loki said:Umm, the stats I posted were his playoff stats:
21.5 points, 13.2 rebounds, and 2.8 blocks/game in the playoffs.
Hardly "average" numbers as you claim. Sure, for Shaq (one of the top 5-7 players ever imo), they're low compared to his career stats, but average? Like bionic pointed out, Shaq is STILL a top 5 player with numbers like that. I guess Kobe and the rest of the Lakeshow got used to sucking on the Daddy's teat when he was posting EXTRAORDINARY numbers all those years (frequent back-to-back 40/20 games? Unheard of...except for Shaq), and can't hack it now, with merely "average top 5 player in the NBA Shaq"-- they needed "top 5 all time" Shaq. Tsc tsc.
I didn't say his "effect on defense", I said "his effect on defenses" (as in "other teams' defensive schemes).
It is simple guys, don't give one guy all the credit for the wins and don't blame one guy for all the losses. The Lakers as a team are definitely not as talented as when they were winning championships. The last two years, they had all sorts of holes in their defense and offense that people could take advantage of. They had no depth or athleticism on their bench for too many positions. Part of the blame for their downfall was bad decisions by the GM and Jackson in the players they were taking and part of the blame is just the salary cap, Shaq and Kobe (especially Shaq) just cost too much damn money to get anyone else.
And Loki as much as I respect Shaq, he is NOT a top 5-7 player of all time. Hell he isn't even the best big of his generation, that title goes to Hakeem the Dream. Most underrated player of all time.
As much as I love Kobe, people need to stop trying to make Shaq out to be a villain. He isn't perfect by any means (as the Kobe haters try to make him), but if you are LAKER fan and not simply a fan of a player, that is weak if you don't stand up for the guy. He helped bring us 3 in a row.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/10/14/bc.bkn.wizards.bobcats.ap/index.html
All I can say is...
HOLY SHIT WE SCORED 125 POINTS!
BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
Ugh, too much Laker talk. Get over it already, they´re going to suck. BIG TIME!!!
It´s Silver & Black Time!
It´s Silver & Black Time!
BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
bionic77 said:
Yeah, sure. Good luck making the playoffs. We´ll send you a pic of this year´s championship trophy. Oh, and one of Timmy´s trophy, if you want.
BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
bionic77 said:Just remember 0.4 seconds when we meet again in the playoffs.
With only one HOF on the team now, the chance of the refs helping the Lakers out decreases inmensely. At least, I´d like to think so.
Plus we won´t even have to wory about the Lakers in the playoffs because they won´t make it that far.
Spurs
Wolves
Kings
Mavs
Rockets
Nuggets
Grizzlies
Jazz
Yep, no luck for LA.
DarienA said:
Yeah, you were talking about his scoing output, but the quote you were responding to from bionic simply said that Malone was the team's unsung MVP for whatever reasons; he didn't say that Malone gave them the scoring punch that they needed or anything.
I just said that I felt that his defense in the post, particularly against Duncan, was an integral part of their success, that's all.EDIT: Oh, and bionic, I disagree about Shaq/Dream. When you factor in Shaq's stats, his rings, and his dominating effect on the game for over a decade, I think you really have to consider him top 7 of all-time, a bit ahead of Olajuwon (who I believe was the more skilled player, for what it's worth; I'd still rather have 1999-2002 Shaq in his prime than Hakeem in his prime, however).
My top 7 all-time, in no order:
Wilt
Russell
Bird
Jordan
Magic
Robertson/Shaq/Jabbar (pick 2 out of these 3 to complete the top 7)
Hakeem would probably round out the top 10 along with Jerry West. Of course, this list is subject to change in the next decade, as Duncan rounds out his brilliant career and Kobe/KG/TMac continue to develop.
Well well well, a little Hakeem discussion. And look what I just found....
http://bbs.smeggysmeg.com/videos/Dream_47pts_vSpurs.avi
http://bbs.smeggysmeg.com/videos/Dream_47pts_vSpurs.avi
BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
Miguel said:
:-(
Ninja Scooter
Member
suck it halfpastnoon!
Ninja Scooter
Member
DMczaf said:
Ray Allen sure is, and he just found out why he'll never be number 1.
Ninja Scooter
Member
from detnews.com:
HAHAHA! The Bean Machine keeps rolling!
HAHAHA! The Bean Machine keeps rolling!
That's a nice block by Kobe, but it seemed as if he used his right arm to hold Allen down and prevent him from getting any lift on his jump, even though the contact with Kobe's arm is for just a moment. I mean, it just seems odd that Allen all of a sudden can't get more than 17" off the ground for a layup attempt after a running start. Still, great block by Kobe-- it's funny how he just keeps rising and rising for the block; as the gif loaded up on my slow-ass PC, I kept saying "when will he stop rising?" Allen should have definitely double-clutched and tried to spin it up from his hip, out to the side-- he had the angle, and it would at least have gotten up on the glass, even if it didn't go in. No need to allow yourself to get posterized like that lol.
Still, great block by Kobe-- it's funny how he just keeps rising and rising for the block; as the gif loaded up on my slow-ass PC, I kept saying "when will he stop rising?" Allen should have definitely double-clutched and tried to spin it up from his hip, out to the side-- he had the angle, and it would at least have gotten up on the glass, even if it didn't go in. No need to allow yourself to get posterized like that lol.Ninja Scooter
Member
nah, it looks more to me, like DM said, that Ray wasn't really anticipating Kobe rushing his ass and sort of hesitated a bit, which is why he got zero lift. Kobe could have just faked him and Ray probably would have ran the ball into the bottom of the rim.
Loki said:Yeah, you were talking about his scoing output, but the quote you were responding to from bionic simply said that Malone was the team's unsung MVP for whatever reasons; he didn't say that Malone gave them the scoring punch that they needed or anything.
EDIT: Oh, and bionic, I disagree about Shaq/Dream. When you factor in Shaq's stats, his rings, and his dominating effect on the game for over a decade, I think you really have to consider him top 7 of all-time, a bit ahead of Olajuwon (who I believe was the more skilled player, for what it's worth; I'd still rather have 1999-2002 Shaq in his prime than Hakeem in his prime, however).
My top 7 all-time, in no order:
Wilt
Russell
Bird
Jordan
Magic
Robertson/Shaq/Jabbar (pick 2 out of these 3 to complete the top 7)
Hakeem would probably round out the top 10 along with Jerry West. Of course, this list is subject to change in the next decade, as Duncan rounds out his brilliant career and Kobe/KG/TMac continue to develop.
Shaq did dominate more from 1999-2002 then Hakeem did, but when Hakeen was on top of his game he was dominating the likes of Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq in their primes. Shaq was dominating Sabonis and a washed up Robinson. No comparison IMHO.
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