Ninja Scooter
Member
IT, Gordon Heyward, Scoochie Smith for Kyrie. That's Danny's final offer.
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NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
I didn't say it was a good deal for either side, just that it's the only way CLE would trade to BOS. There's no way you ship Kyrie to the #1 competitor in your conference, without asking for a king's ransom.
Which is why I previously posted that the two sides might as well not talk at all. I only brought it up because there's talk in Boston media about whether they should trade for him.
Which is why I previously posted that the two sides might as well not talk at all. I only brought it up because there's talk in Boston media about whether they should trade for him.
RedAssedApe
Banned
a king's ransom
I totally did that on purpose. Yup, I'm that witty.
Lionel Richie
Member
Oh I agree there man, there's just no way this trade ever happens because Boston won't ever offer that package for anyone short of AD and Cleveland wouldn't even dare to ask. It's a weird situation Kyrie is in, because I doubt anyone will offer an insane package for him and yet the whole thing somehow escalated to such a monumental clusterfuck that I really doubt he starts the season as a Cav regardless of the market.
the_darkness
Banned
Advanced stats were a mistake.
Every GM and coach in the league would take Kyrie over IT.
Koby? For a second you gave me a great image of Kobe as Lebron's GM, it would be glorious.
BlackGhost
Banned
KOBY!
Lionel Richie
Member
We're 14 years deep in the Moneyball era, no GM would trade a huge package for Kyrie when he already has IT.
What does this even mean? You do realise that Billy King was an NBA GM for Multiple franchises right? This statement proves nothing aside from that you seem to value the fictional oppinions of people who managed to convinve NBA owners to hire them as more valid then fact.
If you want to have a conversation about the flaws within various advanced metrics, and why Kyrie is better the Isiah Thomas sure lets do that. The main weakness' of most advanced metrics are easy enough to find online.
Only because of factors outside their skillsets (age, contracts).
It means no sane person would choose IT over Kyrie.
the_darkness
Banned
Yup. I thought it was pretty fucking simple.
Then what defines sanity? Would the action of choosing IT over Kyrie qualify one as insane? Because if so thats just using confirmation bias to categorize those that disagree with your oppinion as insane.
This is not evidence nor is it an oppinion supported by fact when presented in this manner.
LyleLanley
Banned
Picking IT over Kyrie, in a one for one deal, would be crazy.
the_darkness
Banned
k then. You're trying real hard to intellectualise this to make some sort of point but it's not that serious.
Poster said IT for Kyrie is a bad trade for Boston using advanced stats as justification.
Reality is that Kyrie is better than IT so it's in fact a good trade for Boston so fuck what the stats say.
Follow?
Randolph Freelander
Member
Greg Monroe, though.
LyleLanley
Banned
Makes you think.
I follow and i agree with you, but the thing is stats are representative of what has happened. If Kyrie is better then IT then there will be evidence of it. Why not go find it vs calling everyone who disagree's with you insane? Especially when they have presented a well reasoned arguement supported by evidence.
How many former Knicks players do you want the Cavs to end up with in the Lebron part duex era?
darkwing-buck
Member
Enough to make Lebron realize
then bails next season to the Lakers or the Spurs, heh.
lmaooo
Here are one thing that is indisputably insane:
Saying a trade of an expensive bench guy that no team wants, Greg Monroe, plus a pick for Kyrie is a good trade.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Well Danny did pick him over Fultz and Lonzo.
darkwing-buck
Member
who the heck is scoochie smith
It wasn't one pick, it was 3 unprotected or minimally protected first round picks.
Besides Greg Monroe having minimal value was the point. Cleveland needs future assets to prepare for a potential future without Lebron. The Bucks desperate need for a PG and Monroe's minimal value meant that Cleveland would have leverage to get better future assets including minimally protected draft picks from a time where Kyrie may not be a Milwaukee buck.
Furthermore Cleveland has a huge tax bill and need to find a way to get under the Cap if Lebron leaves. Greg Monroe has the largest easily aquired expiring contract in the NBA. Monroe's contract also allows Cleveland to potentially do a one for one trade with New Orleans for Demarcus Cousins at the deadline where Cleveland would have aditional leverage to extort a bargain out of New Orleans.
Finally, everything teams say about Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe, Vucevic ect not being able to defend against Golden State was true of Kevin Love last playoffs. Yet Love still has "Star" level trade value. Trading for Monroe gives Cleveland a Love replacement to use against teams that play big. This allows Cleveland to trade Love (A player with significant trade value) for two young starting level players. One at PG and one at SF.
This set of trades leaves Clevelands starting lineup as PG Smith SF Lebron Thompson with Rose Korver Green and Monroe filling out the key bench positions. While saving short and long term money, aquiring the ability to drop below the sallary cap next summer should Lebron leave, aquiring future draft assets and having an outside chance at getting a below market value Boogie Cousins rental to further enhance Cleveland's title chances.
There is also an added bonus of that Milwaukee has a loaded roster and while they wont be ready to win this season, they would be close to favourites next season with a starting lineup of Kyrie Middleton Parker Giannis Maker. Given their relationship I'm sure Dan Gilbert would be more then happy to screw over Lebron's attempts at a title elsewhere by creating a superteam in Milwaukee.
But hey, if you don't think Cleveland just achieved all of their short and meduim term goals in that scenario and want to blindly criticize someone then you do you.
Monroe is a mediocre bench player, at best. And likely will never start full time again in his career.
He is a salary dump, period. Does Cavs seem like the team who wants to trade their young superstar PG for a salary dump plus a few non-lottery picks?
If Cleveland would take on his awful contract and little to no impact on court purely for picks they wouldn't do so for a team that will not be in the lottery any time soon. They would do so with a team that will be in the lottery or at least likely to be in the lottery.
Monroe's dumpster fire of a contract plus 3 non-lottery picks would be far worse return than Boogie or Paul George got. And Kyrie has more years on his contract than either did. You are essentially saying one of the best PG's in the league is worth a salary dump and 3 non-lottery picks.
He is a salary dump, period. Does Cavs seem like the team who wants to trade their young superstar PG for a salary dump plus a few non-lottery picks?
If Cleveland would take on his awful contract and little to no impact on court purely for picks they wouldn't do so for a team that will not be in the lottery any time soon. They would do so with a team that will be in the lottery or at least likely to be in the lottery.
Monroe's dumpster fire of a contract plus 3 non-lottery picks would be far worse return than Boogie or Paul George got. And Kyrie has more years on his contract than either did. You are essentially saying one of the best PG's in the league is worth a salary dump and 3 non-lottery picks.
Monroe has a great contract. Its expiring. Thats a legitimate asset.
Besides any lottery team you trade Kyrie to instantly becomes a potential playoff team in the East and a rival contender in the West. So those picks are worthless anyway. Your best hope of getting value for those picks is trading Kyrie somewhere he doesn't want to go and getting picks from beyond when Kyrie's contract is set to expire. Few teams would ever agree to that, but Milwaukee might given that Kyrie would likely stay if they were a contender and they have enough talent for that gamble to be worth making.
Its a gamble sure, but its a calculated one by both Cleveland and Milwaukee.
Then why have the Bucks been trying to trade him for nearly two years with not a single team wanting him? They have been pretty much trying to give him away.
Nobody wants Greg Monroe.
Milwaukee were trying desperately to trade Monroe because the are a small market team and they handed out a bunch of Bad Contracts over the past few years. Monroe, Henson, Plumblee??? Or was it a Zeller? ect. Point being Milwaukee needed to dump salary to be able to afford to pay Giannis/Jabari/Middleton and have a solid roster. Monroe had the biggest contract and should hypothetically demand the most in return.
Plenty of good players are repeatedly on the trade block. See Rondo/Ray Allen in Boston. Its not that big of a deal. You need to trade good player if you want to recieve good players.
Teams haven't wanted Monroe because while his production is solid to good, his cost vs production ratio isn't that good. He is a large contract at a position that few teams have significant need and where you can find someone that does 80% of what Monroe does for <50% of the cost.
Whats changed is that now Greg Monroe is an expiring contract. Expiring contracts in the NBA have real value since teams only have to worry about the immediate fit and big expiring contracts open up sallary flexibility. If a washed up Kendrick Perkins making 10M a year and a heavily protected first round pick can get a team a young pre RFA Enes Kanter, then Monroe an actually useful NBA player has even more value as an expiring contract.
slightconfuse
Banned
Brooklyn becoming the dumping ground for bad contracts is amazing
We are back to 2005
We are back to 2005
They signed Crabbe to an offer sheet last year, so they obviously value him.
Raylan Targaryen
Member
Pels have two top 10 players yet can't even be an 8th seed. Ok buddy
Idc how weak the rest of your roster is, OKC made the playoffs with just Westbrook
slightconfuse
Banned
I just find it funny that we are back to teams giving out bad contracts again. The when point of the new cba was to avoid this plus the amnesty clause.
MushroomSamba
Member
Wasn't Crabbe considered a kid with good potential last offseason? I remember he made some noise in the playoffs that year, showing a pretty versatile offensive game. I guess he kinda regressed this year or wasn't utilized much with McCollum obviously being the starting 2?
EDIT: I remember Nets fans actually hoping the Blazers wouldn't match last year, too. Seemed like a good young talent.
EDIT: I remember Nets fans actually hoping the Blazers wouldn't match last year, too. Seemed like a good young talent.
Caddywompus
Member
So your master plan to rebuild is obtain future 1st rd picks from MIL and hope Kryie leaves and Giannis doesn't still take them to the playoffs?
Then turn around and some how pry Cousin's expiring contract away from NOP for an expiring contract?
Why not just use your most valuable asset and get Cousins in the first place?
CLE gets Cousins and Middleton
MIL gets Holiday and Frye's expiring contract
NOP gets Kryie and Monroe's expiring contract
Sure you miss out on all those valuable 2020+ early 20th picks from MIL but you might convince Lebron to stay a little longer.
Expiring contracts are useful for a team like the Lakers who will then have more room to sign players next summer.
Cavs are in the luxury tax, an expiring contract does not buy them any space to sign a new big contract next summer.
You are essentially saying Cavs should trade Kyrie, a superstar, for 3 mediocre non-lottery picks. Which is absolutely godawful return.
Caddywompus
Member
Is that Pastor from Boston?
Cornbread78
Member
The Kyrie struggle continues.....
Cornbread78
Member
Randolph Freelander
Member
New Orleans waived potential 6th man of the year and locker room glue guy Quinn Cook for luxury tax reasons.
New Orleans...
New Orleans...
Ninja Scooter
Member
He traded for Greg Monroe?
I mean
A lot of religious people go to pastors they trust, then people go to family and close friends
Not strange at all
Yeah that's not strange. Think of it as him just getting advice and a different perspective on things.