Lolol why would the cavs trade Kyrie for IT? Who is far and away a better battle tried player? Kyrie for Wiggins and picks is a better trade. He gives them scoring and some defensive potential.
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- Thread starter Jarate
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Maybe, but it would end up being a non-lottery if it comes to that and Kyrie has more value to a team like the Nuggets who simply can't put asses in seats. Kyrie has the brand and marketing value of a true superstar despite not being a true superstar (thanks LeBron!).
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Because you are long and athletic doesn't mean you will be a good defender
If Thibs hasn't realized that supposed defensive potential yet I doubt Ty Lue will.
Are they that desperate to gut their wings rotation to get "that guy from the Uncle Drew commercials"?
That trade doesn't really make them any better. The Kyrie-Jokic PnR defense would be comical.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Wiggins is a terrible defender my dude. Like worst in the league terrible.
Nah nah, look at him. Just look at the guy and you can tell he's a defender.
Lebron is gone. He's out.
Why would Milwaukee do that? They are a small market team and Holiday is earning huge money and hasn't really done all that much to prove he is elite. Milwaukee cant afford contracts like those.
I'm essentially saying that Lebron is gone. Cleveland have 125M next year committed to 9 players including Lebron. That becomes 90M to 8 players should Lebron leave. That would give Cleveland roughly 10M in cap room to try and move forward post Lebron.
Having someone like Monroe or Boogie expire would take that to 75M in committed salaries. That gives Cleveland approximately 28M in cap space for the 2018/19 season assuming the 103M cap projection is accurate.
This leaves cleveland with 3 possible scenarios
1. Lebron changes his mind and decides to stay. Cleveland now have Lebron, Monroe/Boogie, Warren and Bledsoe as their best 4 players, all can create for others and shoot.
2. Lebron leaves Cleveland has Bledsoe Smith Warren Thompson and Monroe/Boogie as the starting 5 and stays a perenial playoff team in the east for the next 5 years because they are able to add talent via the non taxpayer MLE and the picks collected from Milwaukee can be used as trade assets.
3. Lebron and Monroe/Boogie both leave for nothing.
Cleveland has 28M in cap space, 3 promising young/prime players who will be worth something on the trade market hypothetically (Bledsoe, Warren and Thompson) and two first round draft picks per draft for the next 3 years. They will also likely have a big expiring contract like Jared Dudley or Tyson Chandler.
This means that Cleveland can take on up to 40M in bad contracts for picks/assets while tanking for the next 3 seasons and they will be ready to be a contender post Lebron within 3 years or less provided they don't screw up the rebuild.
All of those scenarios are good for Cleveland.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Real talk, are you Greg Monroe's agent and do you think any of us are Koby Altman.
I don't love it for them for basketball reasons, but remember they were trying to throw a ton of money at Dwyane Wade's corpse last summer. They need big name stars to draw fans out there and Kyrie is one of the biggest names in the league.
Bigs who can't stretch the floor or defend are the new market inefficiency
LyleLanley
Banned
Caddywompus
Member
You just said MIL was desperate for a PG and and being a small market team they can't attract free agents. You're essentially turning Middleton into what would probably ends up being an All-star PG in the depleted East.
The contract is atrocious and his injury history is a concern maybe some of those sweet early-20 lotto picks from NOP will convince them to roll the dice Holiday, Parker and Giannis are all healthy for a playoff run.
And if you are operating on the idea that Lebron is gone then you can get a hell of a lot more than that deal. Cap space means nothing to a CLE if no one is on your roster to win.
Ninja Scooter
Member
LeBron would force the Cavs to throw in more.
The CBA
Honestly not sure why i care so much about something that won't happen, but for some reason i felt the need to explain myself.
re current market inefficiencies
The current market inefficiencies are good players on bad teams and/or players being incorrectly used by their coaches. Advanced stats tend to have inbuilt confirmation bias when it comes to team results be they winning or losing.
Except Middleton is better and more valuable then Holiday. While Milwaukee can't afford the risk Holiday's contract presents. At least Kyrie is a top 20 Guy. Is Holiday even a top 10 PG?
You could definitely get more for Clevelands players if you did a straight up Lebron is gone firesale. You would trade everyone but Lebron and force him to waive his no trade clause. The problem is that won't allow you to compete for a title this year and try and get a 2nd championship before Lebron leaves.
Tanking this season also makes no sense due to the size of Clevelands payroll and the fact that enough teams in the east are tanking/rebuilding that you wouldn't be able to guarentee a great pick, especially when you consider how hard it will be for a rebuilding team to win in the West.
LyleLanley
Banned
Wow! Bread does it again!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because 2012 was when most of their players were last good?
Thank you, sometimes you just hit it out of the park and deserve recognition.
No, because Kony 2012 and now it's Koby 2012. Do you get it?
Peter Ian Staker
Member
I have to agree with Monroe's agent on that one.
Giving up Middleton for Holiday is an awful move. Middleton is a pretty good 2 guard on a bargain contract and Holiday will never be good/healthy enough to make his contract worth it.
Caddywompus
Member
Holiday is probably outside the top 10 PG but Middleton is definitely outside the top 10 SG or SF. MIL can't get Kyrie with any deal you come up with so it doesn't really make any difference to compare his value over Holiday.
Your deal doesn't make them competitive just poorly managed. You could exile Kyrie to any lotto team that owns their picks just make sure you're receiving something past 2020
CLE goal is to receive a package that makes them competitive next season while also having some fail safe for the future if Lebron bolts. A deal straight up with MIL does neither.
This was mainly a response to CLE trading Kryie for Monroe's expiring contract then somehow turning Monroe into Cousins (Just came up with an example of why CLE wouldn't just use their most valuable asset to get Cousins in the first place while meeting MIL desire for a starting PG). It's more likely a Dellavedova and Hawes expiring contract would be in place of Middleton but then you need to add more players to make that work and frankly that was too much work but probably less than typing this explanation out.
1. Middleton is a 6'8 wing who shoots 40% from 3, had an almost 20% assist rate and has a reputation for being a good defender. Those guys are the most valuable players in the NBA right now. They demand a huge return in any trade because teams want as many as they can get.
2. You couldn't just exile Kyrie to any lottery team because most dont have assets worth taking back, and others wouldn't want Kyrie as it would improve their team too much and hurt their chances at a top 5 pick. Almost no "lottery team" would trade picks from 3 years in the future after Kyrie would likely have bolted and having Kyrie would have prevented them from tanking. That makes no sense.
Sure you could trade Kyrie for Reggie Jackson + Picks, but then you are stuck over the cap on a team without Lebron built around Reggie Jackson and Kevin Love. Is that really any better?
3. Obviously. The Kyrie to Milwaukee for Monroe concept was always about having a replacement player that allowed Cleveland to trade Kevin Love (who hasn't tanked his value by demanding a trade to the Knicks) for a good return.
LyleLanley
Banned
You're playing chess while the rest of us idiots play checkers.
Caddywompus
Member
Cousins and Middleton would be insane value for Kryie. If MIL was interested in Holiday they would probably move Delly/Hawes package to fill CLE hole at PG but like I said it makes the trade more complex than worth figuring out
If someone is going to trade for Irving they are planning to keep him past 2 years. It makes perfect sense to trade picks in a future where you see yourself in the playoffs with Kryie and not in the lotto hoping you can find a Kryie.
From CLE perspective, they only send him to a place like ORL if you're operating under your assumption Lebron is gone.
How is that obvious? Monroe is an expiring contract not a replacement Actually I'm not even sure what "obviously" is actually referring to here.
1. Your top trade is flawed and cant be figured out
2. If there is better value where is it? Cleveland has very specific needs
3. Obviously Cleveland need to try and win this year. Also Obviously you don't trade Kyrie without a plan for a replacement PG if you are trying to win.
Yoshimitsu126
Member
I dont know how I would feel about this.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Cavs trade Kyrie to the Bulls for Wade. LBJ and Wade join CP3 in Houston next summer. Harden gets initiated onto the banana boat.
Caddywompus
Member
1) Doesn't matter anymore it was a mistake to respond to your post
2) Personally, like stated in other posts DEN appears to be the closest compromise you'll find for Lebron, CLE and Irving. But I don't expect a trade, I expect having to deal with an entire year where this is the storyline every CLE game.
3) CLE only needs a PG that can cover other PGs. Delly or Beverly type you don't need and floor general to facilitate offense. It may take another deal to patch the mess they would potentially create.
I hope that happens to Kyrie, the franchise he deserves after this stunt
Caddywompus
Member
I don't get why Kryie would rather play second fiddle to Towns or Leonard. MIA and NY make since with this vain request but SA and MIN seems odd given the situation.
Not sure what Minny thinks they have with Wiggins, so it's hard to gauge the interest even though if I'm paying the same salary to my starting PG I'll take Irving over Teague.
Ninja Scooter
Member
If it's a pure vanity play, he'd likely be the most popular player on either team, something he will never be playing with LeBron.
I'm not sure that's all it is though. IN part, sure, but I think it could just be that he and Bron don't get along, not that he necessarily minds playing with other star players.
Caddywompus
Member
That's probably true and the timing to pull this seems spiteful. Though Chauncey Billups was saying he saw the writing on the wall with this situation when he was being vetted for the GM title.
I'd kind of like to see how IT personality would clash with Lebron. He seems like he's got a big head and sticks his foot in his mouth a lot.
Would become Marbury part 2, just need Isaiah back as GM
Starphoenix
Member
It's AAU basketball but if you have nothing to watch at around 8:55pm PST
Zion Williamson vs. LaMelo Ball is gonna go down
Kinda expecting LaMelo to get blown out since Zion is a year his senior and Big Ballers probably don't have the talent that Zion is surrounded by
But should be an interesting game to watch regardless
Surprised at how many people are talking about an AAU game tbh
Zion Williamson vs. LaMelo Ball is gonna go down
Kinda expecting LaMelo to get blown out since Zion is a year his senior and Big Ballers probably don't have the talent that Zion is surrounded by
But should be an interesting game to watch regardless
Surprised at how many people are talking about an AAU game tbh
Spurs were cool when Leonard and Simmons were pulling off some of their dunks last year. Now there is only Leonard.
Still don't understand why they let Simmons go
friskykillface
Banned
Zion can't shoot free throws
BBB is small af
BBB is small af
RedAssedApe
Banned
how can people actually watch these games? lol...garbage
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Well they watched the summer league a few weeks ago....
RedAssedApe
Banned
these high school games are MUCH worse
unknownstranger
Member
Cavs should do this to sabotage Lebron's plan of playing for the Lakers next year.
True Savior
Member
If Irving was a Warriors player instead of Curry, I'm still comfortable they win it fairly easy.
Pre Durant Kyrie Dray and Klay don't even make the Finals.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
If you flip the two, Cavs beat the Warriors.