Butler is the only guy I think is available. I doubt the Pacers and Kings reward their new coach by getting rid of the best player.
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NBA Offseason |OT| "It's a complete shit move, but we're stuck with it now"
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
Ninja Scooter
Member
Butler is the only guy I think is available. I doubt the Pacers and Kings reward their new coach by getting rid of the best player.
Would seem weird to send Butler to the lottery as the Bulls rep and then turn around and trade him.
Happy for the Sixers but I don't know much at all about the class coming out. Is there truly a game changing player at 1?
Simmons and Ingram both have the potential to be that. Simmons is like Blake Griffon with a better handle, the problem is that his jump shot is completely broken and PFs who can't shoot are becoming dinosaurs in this league. Both guys are skilled and by all accounts have a good head on their shoulders, so the odds of either being an outright bust is probably low, but whether they hit their considerable potential is definitely a question mark.
In dream land would you take Butler cousins or George? I'd take George methinks.
Super intriguing. George has a 27-28pt, 48% shooting season in him with good defense. Cousins is probably a few percentage away from peak statline at 27/12, but his ceiling is leadership, attitude switch. Butlers just a slight tier below.
I think George would have the most carry-over, remain closest to the the same player or better on a team saying "youre the man", but i dont know that his addition would move things for the Celtics. Boogie meanwhile would make them a force to try to eliminate at full health every year.
Would seem weird to send Butler to the lottery as the Bulls rep and then turn around and trade him.
Bulls sent him there as reassurance and to quell the rumors he's on the block, is what I've heard. Between Butler and a 3rd pic...I'd hold on to Butler. Just sit him for a year until Derrick Rose's contract expires. Bulls are in purgatory until Rose is off the books, might we well try to get a draft pick. Butler's their only athlete so it makes little sense to get rid of him, but everyone else can go.
Between Pau, Mirotic, gimpy Rose, old man Noah, Doug McDermott, and Dunleavy, they had to have been one of the most unathletic teams in the league. Which I felt heightened Butler's stock to just contrast against those guys on a nightly basis.
I really think that Okafor to the Celtics for #3 pick makes the most sense if Philly is looking to deal him. Philly would be able to draft their guard and the Celtics will get a young big man
What are the chances that Lakers don't take Simmons/Ingram? Last year it was all about Towns and Okafor going 1 and 2 but the Lakers took Russell instead of Okafor. It is reported that the Lakers do like Dunn and probably could trade back and get a great haul for #2.
What are the chances that Lakers don't take Simmons/Ingram? Last year it was all about Towns and Okafor going 1 and 2 but the Lakers took Russell instead of Okafor. It is reported that the Lakers do like Dunn and probably could trade back and get a great haul for #2.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I really think that Okafor to the Celtics for #3 pick makes the most sense if Philly is looking to deal him. Philly would be able to draft their guard and the Celtics will get a young big man
What are the chances that Lakers don't take Simmons/Ingram? Last year it was all about Towns and Okafor going 1 and 2 but the Lakers took Russell instead of Okafor. It is reported that the Lakers do like Dunn and probably could trade back and get a great haul for #2.
Doubtful. Ingram and Simmons are the consensus 1/2 best prospects in the draft, Okafor was never that further ahead of the comp. Barring some kind of Penny Hardaway legendary workout I think those guys go 1/2 and as for trading back, that seems much harder to do in the NBA.
Doubtful. Ingram and Simmons are the consensus 1/2 best prospects in the draft, Okafor was never that further ahead of the comp. Barring some kind of Penny Hardaway legendary workout I think those guys go 1/2 and as for trading back, that seems much harder to do in the NBA.
Some hindsight here. Coming out of high school and all the way until March Madness Okafor was absolutely considered the #1 prospect in the class; Towns made his move later and at this time in the process Okaford was considered a lock for the top 2. So things can change - workouts, character concerns, even injuries. So it definitely can happen.
I think the odds would be higher if the Sixers were still run like a fantasy basketball team, though.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Some hindsight here. Coming out of high school and all the way until March Madness Okafor was absolutely considered the #1 prospect in the class; Towns made his move later and at this time in the process Okaford was considered a lock for the top 2. So things can change - workouts, character concerns, even injuries. So it definitely can happen.
I think the odds would be higher if the Sixers were still run like a fantasy basketball team, though.
The difference is that going into last years draft, Towns, Okafor, Russel and even Porzingis were all much closer together in terms of prospects rankings than you see this year. Towns set himself apart with an awesome workout towards the end. This year going in the 1/2 are much more clearly defined, so it's going to take an even more legendary workout from someone outside those two to leapfrog either of them, and keep in mind Simmons and Ingram seem like the type to shine in workouts themselves, particularly a monster athlete like Simmons. Anything can happen between now and June 23 but I don't think it's likely at all.
The difference is that going into last years draft, Towns, Okafor, Russel and even Porzingis were all much closer together in terms of prospects rankings than you see this year. Towns set himself apart with an awesome workout towards the end. This year going in the 1/2 are much more clearly defined, so it's going to take an even more legendary workout from someone outside those two to leapfrog either of them, and keep in mind Simmons and Ingram seem like the type to shine in workouts themselves, particularly a monster athlete like Simmons. Anything can happen between now and June 23 but I don't think it's likely at all.
I don't think Ingram is any more locked in that Okafor was at this point last year, so agree to disagree I guess. In fact it seems very similar. Personally I think Ingram's stock is a little high. It's just too easy to look at him and see Durant, but he's nowhere near the shooter, and the FT% is a little alarming, less in the fact that it's an issue on the court than what it says about his reputation as an elite shooter. Simmons I am 100% sold on.
I'm just not sure who the risers would be this year. Bender to Porzingis is almost too easy. Of the rest I think Murray's stock has the best chance to rise. A little further down I'm keeping my eye on Sabonis (one of my favorite players in the draft but his stock seems to have risen to higher than the Celtics 2nd pick), Malik Beasley, and Diallo as risers.
I don't think Ingram is any more locked in that Okafor was at this point last year, so agree to disagree I guess. In fact it seems very similar.
I'm just not sure who the risers would be this year. Bender to Porzingis is almost too easy. Of the rest I think Murray's stock has the best chance to rise. A little further down I'm keeping my eye on Sabonis (one of my favorite players in the draft but his stock seems to have risen to higher than the Celtics 2nd pick), Malik Beasley, and Diallo as risers.
Ingram's game suits today's NBA game way more than Okafor's does.He can shoot from anywhere on the floor, he can drive and finish, he's a better defender than people think and he really improved big time during his freshman year. I think Ingram is Duke's best ever 1 and done. Sleep on Slim Reaper at your own peril.
I think Jah will be a pretty good pro but its not going to be on a team thats built like Philly currently is and he's got to improve better defensively. I think he was becoming more efficient before his injury in march, but it still makes no sense for Philly to keep him.
Why would the Celtics want another big that can't defend? His style of play just doesn't fit the Celtics at all.I really think that Okafor to the Celtics for #3 pick makes the most sense if Philly is looking to deal him. Philly would be able to draft their guard and the Celtics will get a young big man
What are the chances that Lakers don't take Simmons/Ingram? Last year it was all about Towns and Okafor going 1 and 2 but the Lakers took Russell instead of Okafor. It is reported that the Lakers do like Dunn and probably could trade back and get a great haul for #2.
Why would the Celtics want another big that can't defend? His style of play just doesn't fit the Celtics at all.
The Celtics bigs are all decent defenders - not sure where you are getting this from. Olynyk's the worst of the bunch. They're not great shot blockers, but they're good defenders.
They are all flat footed, we need an athletic shot blocker who can hit the midrange j. One Horford please.The Celtics bigs are all decent defenders - not sure where you are getting this from. Olynyk's the worst of the bunch. They're not great shot blockers, but they're good defenders.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't think Ingram is any more locked in that Okafor was at this point last year, so agree to disagree I guess. In fact it seems very similar. Personally I think Ingram's stock is a little high. It's just too easy to look at him and see Durant, but he's nowhere near the shooter, and the FT% is a little alarming, less in the fact that it's an issue on the court than what it says about his reputation as an elite shooter. Simmons I am 100% sold on.
I'm just not sure who the risers would be this year. Bender to Porzingis is almost too easy. Of the rest I think Murray's stock has the best chance to rise. A little further down I'm keeping my eye on Sabonis (one of my favorite players in the draft but his stock seems to have risen to higher than the Celtics 2nd pick), Malik Beasley, and Diallo as risers.
I think you are underestimating Ingram. He's got all the tools that the current league is trending towards (shooting, versatility, length, athleticism, perimeter D) while the more people analyzed Okafor, and saw the way the Warriors and other teams were causing the league to trend, the more likely his stock was to take a hit. Ingram's stock will only get better between now and the draft. Much less to pick apart than with Okafor.
So vibe is Sixers taking Ingram. How will Ben Simmons fit on the Lakers?
i actually prefer him to Ingram, but him and D'Angelo will definitely be sharing the ball distribution responsibilties. Which could turn dicey, once one of them begins to emerge as the better player. I think you have to push Ben in the mini Lebron role though, to really explore his talents. I also think he's going to be a very messy player for about his first two years.
Simmons also has a bit of Blake to him, but lacks some confidence and aggression at the moment. Something he could deinitely begin to pick up.
i actually prefer him to Ingram, but him and D'Angelo will definitely be sharing the ball distribution responsibilties. Which could turn dicey, once one of them begins to emerge as the better player. I think you have to push Ben in the mini Lebron role though, to really explore his talents. I also think he's going to be a very messy player for about his first two years.
Simmons also has a bit of Blake to him, but lacks some confidence and aggression at the moment. Something he could deinitely begin to pick up.
Ninja Scooter
Member
So vibe is Sixers taking Ingram. How will Ben Simmons fit on the Lakers?
i actually prefer him to Ingram, but him and D'Angelo will definitely be sharing the ball distribution responsibilties. Which could turn dicey, once one of them begins to emerge as the better player. I think you have to push Ben in the mini Lebron role though, to really explore his talents. I also think he's going to be a very messy player for about his first two years.
Simmons also has a bit of Blake to him, but lacks some confidence and aggression at the moment. Something he could deinitely begin to pick up.
Ingram is probably a better fit in LA as I doubt Simmons and Randle can play together, but when you are as terrible as the Sixers and Lakera are you can't really worry about "fit". Take the best possible player and hope your coaches can figure out how to best utilize them and develop them.
Liquidsnake
Banned
The pressure for 76 ers to take Simmons will be real, and they wioll draft him. Ingram fits better in LA. How many big men do the 76 ers need anyways.
Murray is definitely on their radar. Horford was meh the entire playoffs and putrid against the Cavs.Jamal Murray is going to be a beast. He would solve the offense problem, then go out and sign Horford and a shooter and this team will contend.
I don't want him for the max but I think he would be a huge upgrade and he would allow us to go small with Jae at the 4 and Smart at the 3.Murray is definitely on their radar. Horford was meh the entire playoffs and putrid against the Cavs.
The pressure for 76 ers to take Simmons will be real, and they wioll draft him. Ingram fits better in LA. How many big men do the 76 ers need anyways.
Depends on their goals. Its really anyones guess how Embiid plays, how Okafor develops. Hard to know what to do if you don't know what you got.
My question is would they trade any talent for established experience, like a Butler, or do they have no plans to win, right now?
friskykillface
Banned
Who is Bender, a guy that's just 7 foot tall?
The fuck does everyone want that guy
Only Porzingus the god can be like that
Lol Felger going mad
The fuck does everyone want that guy
Only Porzingus the god can be like that
Lol Felger going mad
I really prefer Ingram tbh, but I think they take Simmons, and I'd have a hard time not taking him to.
Bender has very similar measurable to Kristaps Porzingis, and is a year younger then Porzingis was coming out of the Euroleage. Bender didn't play very much as an 18 year old, either because he sucks (who knows) or because euro coaches refuse to play young players for extended periods of time for some reason (Dario Saric has been regularly named one of the top 50 euroleague players and only plays like 15-20 minutes a night)
Bender is another one of those athletic freaks though. Over 7' and is athletic enough to play Center, Power Forward, and possibly even play on the wing as a Small Forward.
Also, remember that Euro league has much better players then college basketball.
Its a big concern though for Bender as his sample size is super low. Though he is the only good "big" other then Ellenson and Poetl.
Bender averaged 2 points a game at 7 foot tall?
The fuck does everyone want that guy
Lol Felger going mad
Bender has very similar measurable to Kristaps Porzingis, and is a year younger then Porzingis was coming out of the Euroleage. Bender didn't play very much as an 18 year old, either because he sucks (who knows) or because euro coaches refuse to play young players for extended periods of time for some reason (Dario Saric has been regularly named one of the top 50 euroleague players and only plays like 15-20 minutes a night)
Bender is another one of those athletic freaks though. Over 7' and is athletic enough to play Center, Power Forward, and possibly even play on the wing as a Small Forward.
Also, remember that Euro league has much better players then college basketball.
Its a big concern though for Bender as his sample size is super low. Though he is the only good "big" other then Ellenson and Poetl.
Jack Remington
Banned
Why would the Sicers want to trade their rookie center who put up 17.5 and 7 while shooting 50% from the field? As a rookie?
Why would the Sicers want to trade their rookie center who put up 17.5 and 7 while shooting 50% from the field? As a rookie?
Bad defense
bad rebounder
inefficient offensive player at times
non athletic big in an age of small ball
more valuable then Nerlens currently
logjam at the position
I don't think he'll get traded, I think Nerlens will get traded before him tbh. A lot of Okafors advanced stats were hampered by the fact that he played with the worst backcourt to ever be assembled in the modern NBA. There is one undeniable fact about Okafor and that's the fact he was able to garner a double team in his rookie year in most games. Okafor didnt have the players around him/awareness to get out of those situation though which hurts his advanced stats tremendously.
We're going to wait to see what happens with Embiid though. People in the organization are hyped for this dude. Sixers with a healthy embiid + Okafor + Saric + Simmons is a super long, athletic team. We'd just need a SG to fill out the roster.
We've also got some good bench depth with all this incoming player. Richaun Holmes had a ridiculously efficient year, same with TJ McConnel who can easily become Delly 2.0
Lmao did they just win the championship?
LyleLanley
Banned
Who is Bender, a guy that's just 7 foot tall?
The fuck does everyone want that guy
Only Porzingus the god can be like that
Lol Felger going mad
A lot of people seem to be excited about Murray now. Just give me anyone but Hield.
A lot of people seem to be excited about Murray now. Just give me anyone but Hield.
With the 3rd Overall Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics Select, Dragan Bender
darkwing-buck
Member
With the 3rd Overall Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics Select, Dragan Bender
Dragan Age
Bad defense
bad rebounder
inefficient offensive player at times
non athletic big in an age of small ball
more valuable then Nerlens currently
logjam at the position
I don't think he'll get traded, I think Nerlens will get traded before him tbh. A lot of Okafors advanced stats were hampered by the fact that he played with the worst backcourt to ever be assembled in the modern NBA. There is one undeniable fact about Okafor and that's the fact he was able to garner a double team in his rookie year in most games. Okafor didnt have the players around him/awareness to get out of those situation though which hurts his advanced stats tremendously.
We're going to wait to see what happens with Embiid though. People in the organization are hyped for this dude. Sixers with a healthy embiid + Okafor + Saric + Simmons is a super long, athletic team. We'd just need a SG to fill out the roster.
We've also got some good bench depth with all this incoming player. Richaun Holmes had a ridiculously efficient year, same with TJ McConnel who can easily become Delly 2.0
You guys would desperately need shooting in the starting lineup with that core of players.
So vibe is Sixers taking Ingram. How will Ben Simmons fit on the Lakers?
i actually prefer him to Ingram, but him and D'Angelo will definitely be sharing the ball distribution responsibilties. Which could turn dicey, once one of them begins to emerge as the better player. I think you have to push Ben in the mini Lebron role though, to really explore his talents. I also think he's going to be a very messy player for about his first two years.
Simmons also has a bit of Blake to him, but lacks some confidence and aggression at the moment. Something he could deinitely begin to pick up.
Luke Walton would love to have Simmons' passing and ability in transition. Russell and Simmons are friends with years of experience together and the 1-4 PnR between them would be crazy. Ingram is a the better fit, but Simmons would be amazing on the team as well.
A lot of people seem to be excited about Murray now. Just give me anyone but Hield.
I think that is who Ainge will take based on his age if it comes down to it. If guys are close I'm taking the 19 year old over the senior.
I think that is who Ainge will take based on his age if it comes down to it. If guys are close I'm taking the 19 year old over the senior.
The Celtics may very well trade the pick.
You guys would desperately need shooting in the starting lineup with that core of players.
Saric is a good shooter for a big. Embiid has been shooting from 3 from his practicing and shooting very well as well
Stauskas was one of the worst NBA players last year, but im interested in seeing him again this year. Even then, we might be able to try to find a good 3 point shooter in free agency and in trading.
Surprised the Sixers have that many fans left.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Between Pau, Mirotic, gimpy Rose, old man Noah, Doug McDermott, and Dunleavy, they had to have been one of the most unathletic teams in the league. Which I felt heightened Butler's stock to just contrast against those guys on a nightly basis.
Rose was still the fastest dude on the team, by far. He's still top tier in terms of speed, he's just not durable and his shot is not consistent. I probably saw every Bulls game and Rose's speed was not the issue. He could not finish in traffic like he used to and his mid jumper was all over the place.
Butler is not that fast, he's just extremely strong and can finish in traffic. He should move to SF after the Bulls up pick up an athletic shooting guard.
I actually wouldn't mind trading Butler for picks. I think Butler is really good but I don't think he can be the best player on a championship team. He can't break down players one on one, yet he think he thinks he can. So he ends up holding the ball and shooting horrible shots with no time left in the shot clock. He's at his best when he's slashing to the basket and moving without the ball.
Rose with all his issues is still the only guy on the team that can break the defense down.
The Celtics may very well trade the pick.
I hope so...
Surprised the Sixers have that many fans left.
Im telling you guys that the most people in Philly were fine with the Process. The Process was always a thing that was only hated by national guys like Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith (although there were a few blowhards like Howard Eskin who were anti process).
During this time, a ton of new sixers fans have shown up due to people being curious for the process (It's a divisive topic, but people who like it really like it) and also, you gotta understand how upset Sixers fans were post Bynum. We were literally the Nets, now we have a ludicorusly young and talented team.
LyleLanley
Banned
With the 3rd Overall Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics Select, Dragan Bender
It'll almost certainly end up being like the Pistons picking Darko but I'm ok with the potential. Plus his fucking name is Dragan, that's gotta be worth something.
I hope so...
We'll give you Nik Stauskas for the 3rd Pick....
I don't see how the Celtics could draft another guard. They lack inside players to really be a Raptors or Hawks (which is their skill ceiling) and they might as well swing for the fences and pick the guy who has the highest ceiling.
I really like Ellenson from Marquette, I would not mind if the Sixers tried to trade away something get him in the top 10
LyleLanley
Banned
Im also really changing my opinion on Hield. Im starting to really like him.
You can't teach that maturity and locker room presence, the Sixers should use the first pick on him.
We'll give you Nik Stauskas for the 3rd Pick....
I don't see how the Celtics could draft another guard. They lack inside players to really be a Raptors or Hawks (which is their skill ceiling) and they might as well swing for the fences and pick the guy who has the highest ceiling.
I really like Ellenson from Marquette, I would not mind if the Sixers tried to trade away something get him in the top 10
They need shooting / scoring and rim protection. I see no rim protection available. Their effective FG percentage on open shots was 26th in the league. They were 29th in the league on open 3's. Not that it means much but Murray hit 25 out of 27 3's in two minutes in one of his draft workouts.
LyleLanley
Banned
Apparently Kris Dunn is withholding medical info from the Celtics and Suns so doesn't have to play for a team with a young PG.
Apparently Kris Dunn is withholding medical info from the Celtics and Suns so doesn't have to play for a team with a young PG.
Suns don't even need a guard unless they feel like stacking Dunn on top of Knight and Bledsoe and they drafted Booker who might turn out to a sneaky great pick.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The Celtics have good guards but none of them have star potential. Murray has superstar potential. This just isn't a good draft for big men in the 3rd spot. Take the BPA and use the cap space to get a Horford or Whiteside.
That's a bit high of a projection on Murray. He's an okay shooter but not enough of an athlete at 6'4 to be a superstar. He's not Devin Booker.
Apparently Kris Dunn is withholding medical info from the Celtics and Suns so doesn't have to play for a team with a young PG.
Honestly Dunn sounds like a player Ainge would draft. He has a nose for picking guards who can't shoot.
I would rather take Murray over Hield or Dunn.
Bender is the wild card