-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NBA Offseason Thread! All offseason NBA talk in THIS thread!
- Thread starter DMczaf
- Start date
- Status
Ninja Scooter
Member
Kobe getting advice from veteran poonologist "Big Game" James Worthy
Ninja Scooter
Member
"What is he saying? Tremendo Culo? What's that?"
Ninja Scooter
Member
"Say Cheese!!!"
**2 seconds later**
Ninja Scooter
Member
Im sorry, but this confirms it. Brian Grant is high as fuck. Somebody get a drug test, maybe we can void his contract...
Kobe gained 10 lbs. A great sign of what things are to come from the lakers. The offense completely changed, now you'll see more of a running, fast pace game. I like our lineup of Odom, Kobe, Caron, Grant, Divac. We'll see how divac fits in the half court. Awesome that kobe & co. arrived trainning camp earlier ready to go. I have already got tickets for the 10/12 game 
NBA source: Pippen to announce retirement
Scottie Pippen, who teamed with Michael Jordan to form a tandem that drove the Chicago Bulls to six NBA titles in the 1990s, is expected to retire after 17 seasons, an NBA source said Monday.
The source, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Pippen is scheduled to make the announcement Tuesday on the Bulls' first day of training camp practice. The team held its media day Monday and Pippen was not present.
His agent, Jimmy Sexton, did not immediately return a call for comment Monday night.
Pippen was brought back last season to give a young Bulls team leadership and experience, but he had knee surgery in December and played in only 23 games as the Bulls went 23-59. It was the first time in his career the seven-time All-Star had missed the playoffs.
Pippen, 39, was voted one of the NBA's 50 greatest players, known for his all-around play, especially his long-armed defense against some of the league's best scorers.
He was traded to Houston in 1999 after the lockout, played one season with the Rockets and then spent four years in Portland. He signed a two-year, $10 million deal to return to Chicago in the offseason and averaged 5.9 points.
"I would have liked an opportunity to coach him because I liked having Scottie around last year," Bulls coach Scott Skiles said Monday.
"The few days he did practice and play in games he kind of took it to another level and set a good example. Only a certain player can decide when it's time to hang it up. A lay down Hall of Famer. Of course you'd like to have him around, but he's not able to go."
#1 It still disgusts me that Pippen got voted one of the NBA's 50 greatest players.
#2. BWAHAHAHHAAH DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT!
Scottie Pippen, who teamed with Michael Jordan to form a tandem that drove the Chicago Bulls to six NBA titles in the 1990s, is expected to retire after 17 seasons, an NBA source said Monday.
The source, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Pippen is scheduled to make the announcement Tuesday on the Bulls' first day of training camp practice. The team held its media day Monday and Pippen was not present.
His agent, Jimmy Sexton, did not immediately return a call for comment Monday night.
Pippen was brought back last season to give a young Bulls team leadership and experience, but he had knee surgery in December and played in only 23 games as the Bulls went 23-59. It was the first time in his career the seven-time All-Star had missed the playoffs.
Pippen, 39, was voted one of the NBA's 50 greatest players, known for his all-around play, especially his long-armed defense against some of the league's best scorers.
He was traded to Houston in 1999 after the lockout, played one season with the Rockets and then spent four years in Portland. He signed a two-year, $10 million deal to return to Chicago in the offseason and averaged 5.9 points.
"I would have liked an opportunity to coach him because I liked having Scottie around last year," Bulls coach Scott Skiles said Monday.
"The few days he did practice and play in games he kind of took it to another level and set a good example. Only a certain player can decide when it's time to hang it up. A lay down Hall of Famer. Of course you'd like to have him around, but he's not able to go."
#1 It still disgusts me that Pippen got voted one of the NBA's 50 greatest players.
#2. BWAHAHAHHAAH DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT!
DarienA said:
Why? His offensive numbers (points, rebs, assists) compare favorably to any other small forward on the top 50 list, and he was EASILY one of the top 3 defenders of his generation (many would argue that he was THE best). He was the only other player besides Jordan (who did it twice) to total 200+ steal/100+ block in the same season (Scottie had 211/101 in 1990).
He's also had some monstrous dunks over the years.
Loki said:
I agree on the defender side, but in terms of points I've always(possibly unfairly) felt that his points came from being with Jordan and able to be the other guy that Jordan could regularly find if he had to. Now I'll be the first to admit that's possibly an unfair reason.
My biggest beef with Pippen is that I've never forgiven him for taking himself out of that play at the end of the game because it wasn't drawn up for him. That's pretty f'd to do in a team sport.
Plus what's he done since he left Chicago?
DarienA said:
Yeah, that game where he took himself out because Kukoc was supposed to take the last shot was pretty sad; I feel he matured a lot since then, however. He just wanted a chance to be "the man", which is understandable considering how he CARRIED that team and led them in every statistical category that season. He wanted his chance to shine. I can't imagine what must have been going through his head when Toni hit that shot, though.
As for the "Jordan sidekick", point taken-- it opened up a lot of things for him, though moreso as he got older. When he was younger, he was a slasher, and him and MJ would work well off each other, following each other to the lane to take a pass for the dunk.
As for his semi-disappearing act since he's left Chicago, realize that he left Chicago when he was 33 years old; not many players (even great ones-- look at Payton, Alex English, George Gervin etc.) do much after 33-34 years of age, so I think it's a bit unfair to single him out in that regard.
The argument that Pippen's offense was relient on Jordan holds no water because he posted career highs in scoring (along with everything else) the year Jordan was out. People always forget that the Jordan-less Bulls won 55 games in 94 and were very competitive that year. It amazes me that when discussions are brought up about Pippen's sans-Jordan play, it is always his post-Bulls years (when he was old and badly injured for the most part) instead of the two years that Jordan was out for.
People also now remember Pippen as Jordan's sidekick, but during the Bulls championship runs (especially the latter ones) they were considered to be a Shaq/Kobe like 1-2 punch, much more equal than they are remembered. The big difference between Shaq/Kobe and MJ/Pippen was that MJ was the one who took over in crunchtime, which is opposite from the (former) Lakers tandem.
Still, Pippen is unquestionably one of the all time greats. He's, and I don't see how you can argue against this, the greatest perimeter defender ever to play the game. In games he would regularly cover an entire side of the court on double teams and is one of the big reasons why those Bulls teams never had that much of a problem with dominant centers. Also, his defensive performance against Magic Johnson in the 91' Finals is one of the most underrated playoff performances in NBA history.
Besides his defense, he was the Chicago's best passer, ball handler, and (possibly along with MJ) open court player.
People also now remember Pippen as Jordan's sidekick, but during the Bulls championship runs (especially the latter ones) they were considered to be a Shaq/Kobe like 1-2 punch, much more equal than they are remembered. The big difference between Shaq/Kobe and MJ/Pippen was that MJ was the one who took over in crunchtime, which is opposite from the (former) Lakers tandem.
Still, Pippen is unquestionably one of the all time greats. He's, and I don't see how you can argue against this, the greatest perimeter defender ever to play the game. In games he would regularly cover an entire side of the court on double teams and is one of the big reasons why those Bulls teams never had that much of a problem with dominant centers. Also, his defensive performance against Magic Johnson in the 91' Finals is one of the most underrated playoff performances in NBA history.
Besides his defense, he was the Chicago's best passer, ball handler, and (possibly along with MJ) open court player.
DCX
DCX
" When Jackson took over from Collins in 1989, the triangle offense was installed and history was in the offing. Jackson felt so comfortable with Pippen's understanding and instincts on the defensive end that he frequently deferred to Scottie's judgment. Oftentimes when Jackson would question why an otherwise intelligent player zigged in a particular defensive sequence instead of executing the required zag, the player would simply say, "Scottie told me to do it." And the coach was satisfied.
In fact, all of the Bulls were somewhat afraid of Michael Jordan (who would ferociously bark at them whenever they made the slightest mistake in positioning or timing). For solace and advice, the players instead turned to Scottie. Throughout the dynasty, it was Pippen who was the team's on-court leader. "
Hmmmm....
DCX
In fact, all of the Bulls were somewhat afraid of Michael Jordan (who would ferociously bark at them whenever they made the slightest mistake in positioning or timing). For solace and advice, the players instead turned to Scottie. Throughout the dynasty, it was Pippen who was the team's on-court leader. "
Hmmmm....
DCX
Ninja Scooter
Member
DCX said:
Isn't 'Sheed 6'10" and Wallace 6'9"?? Somebody's not right...
DCX
don't let the fro fool you. That thing adds another 2-3 inches to Ben. Did Sheed change his number though, or was he 36 last season too?
Bat said:
The other "big reason", of course, being Jordan. I honestly think that, as far as defenders go, they are equal. Their defensive games were different, and both were able to do things defensively that the other couldn't. Pip had the reach on MJ and, particularly later on in their careers, made more "straight up" blocks than Jordan did. Jordan had much better instincts in terms of anticipation for steals/blocks and reading offensive sets before they happened and snuffing out the play. Jordan was quite a ways quicker laterally, though after 1993 he only REALLY showed that when he was challenged or wanted to shut someone down. Both had incredible hands in terms of stripping down low cleanly; Jordan had faster hands, though. Pippen and Jordan were probably the two best post-double-teamers EVER; having them on the same team won them innumerable games. All one has to do is watch the dismantling of Shaquille O'Neal in the '96 playoffs vs. Chicago, or the Bulls' help defense taking Shaq out of the game when he was on LA to overcome a 16-point 4th quarter deficit in '97. Defensively, they were really a joy to watch. I WILL say that, especially in 1997-1998, Pippen exerted much more effort defensively CONSISTENTLY than Jordan did; Jordan had to choose his spots, because he had to do so much other stuff for the team, including being the focus of every defense. MJ was much better at making clutch defensive plays, however; he could seemingly do so at will. Jordan was also the much better post defender, despite Pippen's 2" height advantage.
And FYI, Pippen was not the Bulls' "best passer"-- Jordan was. In fact, Jordan was one of the best passers (in terms of skill in passing) of his generation, something that is universally acknowledged by coaches and analysts. Don't confuse the person who has MORE assists for the better passer-- that has as much to do with one's role on a team as it does with skill. Jordan was always featured in the post on every possession, whereas Pip was in motion more, slashing or cutting and receiving the ball on the move; this meant that the defense was reacting and was out of position, which leads to more passing opportunities. Pip's role on the team, as the main ballhandler and playmaker, also contributed to his higher assist totals. At any rate, even THAT point (about assist totals) is irrelevant, because Jordan has the higher career assist per game average (5.3 for Jordan versus 5.2 for Pippen)-- Jordan also played at age 39 and 40, and dragged that total down; Pippen didn't. But anyway...
My top 3 defenders ever: Jordan, Pippen, Russell (in no order). When Alonzo Mourning was healthy with Miami, he was probably on his way into that list imo. He had INCREDIBLE instincts.
EDIT: Darien, I used to have League Pass back from 95-98 (how do you think I have all my Bulls games on tape?
). It's GREAT, but also a HUGE time-killer. You'll become addicted. Make sure you have nothing else to do if you're gonna sign up for it. Pippen and Jordan were equal man-on-man defenders. Jordan was more effective guarding smaller PGs, while Pippen could guard larger players. However, in terms of team defense, Pippen was (slightly) superior. He was just so long that he was able to cover a lot more space on the court. Either way, they are the two best perimeter defenders ever (I can't say they are better than some of the great centers, though, as a shot blocking threat can do a lot more than a guard/SF can do).
As for passing, I have to disagree (but not my that much). You really can't quantify such a skill, though. Once again, both were great.
The thing is that if you compared these skills of Pippen to any other SG/SF ever to play the game, you'd come away thinking he was one of the most skilled players ever. But because of the comparisons to MJ, he has become severly underrated.
As for passing, I have to disagree (but not my that much). You really can't quantify such a skill, though. Once again, both were great.
The thing is that if you compared these skills of Pippen to any other SG/SF ever to play the game, you'd come away thinking he was one of the most skilled players ever. But because of the comparisons to MJ, he has become severly underrated.
DarienA said:
Since I can get every Raptors game, I haven't needed it. It might be useful to watch a pacific game EVERY NIGHT
but that'd take too much time. It would be totally worth it if you didn't have a favorite team, or if they were out of your market. Mr. Pistons...Konex, should order it so he can watch Kobe.Bat said:
See, I have to disagree about the team defense thing-- I've just seen Jordan do things in terms of defensive rotations/anticipations and help defense that I've never seen anyone else do. So it's not that easy for me to give one the nod over the other. As for passing, I disagree (of course
); I've literally never seen Pippen throw a pass that made me say "what the tits!?", but Jordan seemingly threw one every game. Don't forget-- "I have the tapes" P), so I'm not just speaking idly. Pippen was a solid, fundamental passer who was unselfish and looked for his teammates. Jordan was the better, more creative passer, particularly off of penetration. I've seen Jordan throw a left-handed pass off the dribble with one hand, without touching it with his right hand, to a guy under the basket from like 25 feet out. I dunno...we'll have to agree to disagree (as usual ).Now you wanna talk about underrated? Let's talk Isiah Thomas-- just a tremendous player.
One of my favorite players to watch.DarienA said:
Whether or not you think he is one of the 50 greatest players of all time is a matter of opinion, but you can't deny he was a great player and he did win 6 championship rings. Pippen is the guy that (please excuse the chiche) does all the things to help you to win that don't show up in the stat sheet. He pretty much ran the Bulls and even the Blazers when they were actually contending for a championship. His body just really seemed to fall apart near the end of the Bulls run and he was never the same player, hell even in 1998 it seemed like he wasn't the same and I will say that it seemed like Jordan was doing everything on the team that year (remember how tired Jordan was at the end of playoff games that year? Shows how much he needed Pipp). Just because a guy doesn't score 30 points a game doesn't mean he isn't a great player. Moses Malone is one of the greatest players of all time, but his game wasn't as flashy as a lot of players of his time and for that he sometimes gets overlooked. Besides, Scotty had some really sick plays and dunks. Scottie was overlooked and pretty much overshadowed by Jordan. And sports reporters are fucking retarded, they always try to simplify everything for their stories, outside of Chicago it seemed like he never got his due recognition.
Loki said:See, I have to disagree about the team defense thing-- I've just seen Jordan do things in terms of defensive rotations/anticipations and help defense that I've never seen anyone else do. So it's not that easy for me to give one the nod over the other. As for passing, I disagree (of course
Now you wanna talk about underrated? Let's talk Isiah Thomas-- just a tremendous player.
I have seen Magic throw a left handed leading pass off the dribble from beyond half court. Magic Johnson made Kurt Rambis look good!!! Of course, he was a terrible defensive player, the only other famous player I can think that played worse defense was Barkley.
Magic > Pippen + Jordan combined!!
Ninja Scooter
Member
"bitching"? Weak spin DM. I would expect better from you. Players pay other players for numbers all the time. You think Odom asking for 7 caused a rift. Besides, if anything this shows that Laker brass is being a lot more classy (in regards to 34) than Shaq has been since their split.
Fifty said:Since I can get every Raptors game, I haven't needed it. It might be useful to watch a pacific game EVERY NIGHT
Yeah I'm thinking about getting it so I can catch the HEAT games...
Geeze. Estimating where Ben's head ends, Sheed's got at least four inches on him. That would mean Ben's only about 6'6", 6'7". It's ridiculous how big a defensive presence he is considering this fact.
Edit: I just read an article from The Toronto Star concerning Vince's attitude during the press conference yesterday, in it is a quote from Larry Brown:
Now, I sympathize with Vince and I think the writer of the article is a jerkoff, but Larry makes a great point there. +1 Coach Brown!Larry Brown said:
Kings Savior Ostertag breaks hand masturbating. Franchise in ruins.
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/Ostertag_Out_Six_Weeks-118853-58.html
scola am crying.
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/Ostertag_Out_Six_Weeks-118853-58.html
scola am crying.
- Status