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NBA Playoffs |OT| AKA Derrick Rose's family time

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R

Ripenen

Member
Curry has a hard time with Durant defending him. I don't see him suddenly making 8+ threes in the next game. Toward the end last night he started driving inside more and that helped them hold that lead. He scored more on free throws than threes last night.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Curry played much better last night but goddamn he is a defensive sieve right now. On ball, they are going directly at him if he's covering Waiters, never even mind Westbrook, and they're getting right by him.

Even worse, off ball he is losing people for back cuts or open looks, forcing the defense to recover and messing up rotations. He's also getting lit up on the boards when he's on Roberson or Westbrook.

Not sure if it's injury, fatigue, gameplan, but he's a real liability on that end right now. If you're GS you have to be happy to see his offense come around late in that game yesterday, though.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
KingBroly said:
Warriors barely won last night and I'd argue the Thunder didn't play their best. Given how big Home Court's been in these Conference Finals, the Warriors will need to play a perfect game to force Game 7.
Click to expand...

Neither team was at their best yesterday. I'd argue that the Warriors haven't been at or near their best at any point in the playoffs. Can they find it again? I don't know. If Steph and Thompson both find the range this series is over but they haven't shown any signs of that happening.

OKC's defense on Curry has been good but it has been facilitated by the fact that his teammates aren't making shots. I like their strategy of putting a big man on him 25' from the basket with instructions to keep a hand up and not backpedal if if threatens to drive. He can either shoot from 30'+ or drive. If he drives they rotate another big to make finishing at the rim difficult. So he ends up passing it and teammates can't hit the ocean from the beach so there is no reason OKC should stop doing this.
 
M

Misterhbk

Member
spyder_ur said:
Curry played much better last night but goddamn he is a defensive sieve right now. On ball, they are going directly at him if he's covering Waiters, never even mind Westbrook, and they're getting right by him.

Even worse, off ball he is losing people for back cuts or open looks, forcing the defense to recover and messing up rotations. He's also getting lit up on the boards when he's on Roberson or Westbrook.

Not sure if it's injury, fatigue, gameplan, but he's a real liability on that end right now. If you're GS you have to be happy to see his offense come around late in that game yesterday, though.
Click to expand...

i
 
P

phanphare

Banned
spyder_ur said:
Curry played much better last night but goddamn he is a defensive sieve right now. On ball, they are going directly at him if he's covering Waiters, never even mind Westbrook, and they're getting right by him.

Even worse, off ball he is losing people for back cuts or open looks, forcing the defense to recover and messing up rotations. He's also getting lit up on the boards when he's on Roberson or Westbrook.

Not sure if it's injury, fatigue, gameplan, but he's a real liability on that end right now. If you're GS you have to be happy to see his offense come around late in that game yesterday, though.
Click to expand...

he looked pretty good to me last night. had active hands, was quick on his feet, didn't foul, and funneled his man into the help defense.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
spyder_ur said:
Curry played much better last night but goddamn he is a defensive sieve right now. On ball, they are going directly at him if he's covering Waiters, never even mind Westbrook, and they're getting right by him.

Even worse, off ball he is losing people for back cuts or open looks, forcing the defense to recover and messing up rotations. He's also getting lit up on the boards when he's on Roberson or Westbrook.

Not sure if it's injury, fatigue, gameplan, but he's a real liability on that end right now. If you're GS you have to be happy to see his offense come around late in that game yesterday, though.
Click to expand...

Huh? Where do people get these narratives? So Westbrook laughed yesterday when Durant was asked if Curry was an underrated defender and yet his stats v. Curry as the primary defender (per ESPN):

Westbrook is 8-of-25 from the field and has committed seven turnovers with Curry as his primary defender in this series. Curry has contested 20 of the 25 shot attempts

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...get-another-apparent-russell-westbrook-slight

Westbrook just comes across as unintelligent, arrogant and just a high usage counting stat sort of player. He is a weaker defender than Curry because he lacks Curry's on-court intelligence. I'm not sure why people like him so much when he is so massively inefficient. Is it just because "HE LOOKS AND PLAYS SAVAGE!"?

Also, the argument that the Warriors "hide" him is foolish. He is a very good defender but their other guy is probably the best two guard defender in the league. Who do you think they should put on the opposition's most dangerous perimeter scorer? It isn't hiding someone when there is just a better option. duh.
 
R

Ripenen

Member
offtopic said:
Huh? Where do people get these narratives? So Westbrook laughed yesterday when Durant was asked if Curry was an underrated defender and yet his stats v. Curry as the primary defender (per ESPN):

Westbrook is 8-of-25 from the field and has committed seven turnovers with Curry as his primary defender in this series. Curry has contested 20 of the 25 shot attempts

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...get-another-apparent-russell-westbrook-slight

Westbrook just comes across as unintelligent, arrogant and just a high usage counting stat sort of player. He is a weaker defender than Curry because he lacks Curry's on-court intelligence. I'm not sure why people like him so much when he is so massively inefficient. Is it just because "HE LOOKS AND PLAYS SAVAGE!"?

Also, the argument that the Warriors "hide" him is foolish. He is a very good defender but their other guy is probably the best two guard defender in the league. Who do you think they should put on the opposition's most dangerous perimeter scorer? It isn't hiding someone when there is just a better option. duh.
Click to expand...

Do you think guarding Westbrook might take more out of Curry and make him less effective on offense?
 
N

nillah

Banned
offtopic said:
Huh? Where do people get these narratives? So Westbrook laughed yesterday when Durant was asked if Curry was an underrated defender and yet his stats v. Curry as the primary defender (per ESPN):

Westbrook is 8-of-25 from the field and has committed seven turnovers with Curry as his primary defender in this series. Curry has contested 20 of the 25 shot attempts

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...get-another-apparent-russell-westbrook-slight

Westbrook just comes across as unintelligent, arrogant and just a high usage counting stat sort of player. He is a weaker defender than Curry because he lacks Curry's on-court intelligence. I'm not sure why people like him so much when he is so massively inefficient. Is it just because "HE LOOKS AND PLAYS SAVAGE!"?

Also, the argument that the Warriors "hide" him is foolish. He is a very good defender but their other guy is probably the best two guard defender in the league. Who do you think they should put on the opposition's most dangerous perimeter scorer? It isn't hiding someone when there is just a better option. duh.
Click to expand...

Enough salt here to coat 10 large fries
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Misterhbk said:
i
Click to expand...

That doesn't really address my points, to be honest. It's not just individual defense that I'm seeing, but how Curry is affecting defensive rotations and the glass.

To be fair, I'm surprised to see those numbers though. I assume the Pts/play is Westbrook specific i.e. only if he scores. Sample is way too small and specific to indicate anything, anyways.

phanphare said:
he looked pretty good to me last night. had active hands, was quick on his feet, didn't foul, and funneled his man into the help defense.
Click to expand...

I thought he was slightly better, but still had some lapses.

offtopic said:
Huh? Where do people get these narratives? So Westbrook laughed yesterday when Durant was asked if Curry was an underrated defender and yet his stats v. Curry as the primary defender (per ESPN):

Westbrook is 8-of-25 from the field and has committed seven turnovers with Curry as his primary defender in this series. Curry has contested 20 of the 25 shot attempts

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...get-another-apparent-russell-westbrook-slight

Westbrook just comes across as unintelligent, arrogant and just a high usage counting stat sort of player. He is a weaker defender than Curry because he lacks Curry's on-court intelligence. I'm not sure why people like him so much when he is so massively inefficient. Is it just because "HE LOOKS AND PLAYS SAVAGE!"?

Also, the argument that the Warriors "hide" him is foolish. He is a very good defender but their other guy is probably the best two guard defender in the league. Who do you think they should put on the opposition's most dangerous perimeter scorer? It isn't hiding someone when there is just a better option. duh.
Click to expand...

Don't give me 'narrative' shit. That's lame. I'm observing what I'm seeing. I never said the Warriors 'hide' him, although if you watch the game they are sensibly starting him mostly off Westbrook, as those stats indicate. He's hurting them off-ball too, in the ways I've mentioned, based on what I see.

And Westbrook is far from an inefficient player. 4th highest PER in the NBA, tied with LeBron. He's not a terribly efficient shooter, but that's not the same thing. Continue with your narratives, though.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
nillah said:
Enough salt here to coat 10 large fries
Click to expand...

And yet it is all true. Are you just being defensive? (can we go back and forth with these discussion ending quips?)

I really find the Thunder like-able and enjoyable to watch except for Westbrook - I love what Durant is all about, Ibaka seems great, Adams is just tremendous and the coach seems classy and smart. I want to like them but Westbrook's arrogance, stupidity and inefficient, ball-hogging game make it really difficult.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Didn't think Kerr could really make any adjustments going into game 5 but getting Bogut involved was a real pragmatic one (is it the game breaker? probably not) and smart given how turnover prone Steph and Dray have been.

The big concern going into game 6 isn't KD or Westbrook getting theirs (because they will)..but rather the role players going off because of homecourt. That and we're not going to get 10+ points from Mo Buckets in OKC. I wish Barnes could hit corner 3's with some consistency again. Playoff Barnes used to bail out the team when Steph and Klay were stalling on offense.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Gully State said:
Didn't think Kerr could really make any adjustments going into game 5 but getting Bogut involved was a real pragmatic one (is it the game breaker? probably not) and smart given how turnover prone Steph and Dray have been.

The big concern going into game 6 isn't KD or Westbrook getting theirs (because they will)..but rather the role players going off because of homecourt. That and we're not going to get 10+ points from Mo Buckets in OKC. I wish Barnes could hit corner 3's with some consistency again. Playoff Barnes used to bail out the team when Steph and Klay were stalling on offense.
Click to expand...
I think defensively Kerr has something. It's not ideal, but staying big for most of the game is what he's gonna have to do with with Bogut or Ezeli on the floor. And in the pick & roll coverage keep doing the switch where when Bogut's man goes to set the pick up top someone else like Draymond picks him up so that Bogut can stay in the paint. Less gimmick defense also helped, no more roving around and leaving guys like Roberson and Waiters open. OKC only had one corner three the entire game and Roberson and Waiters shot horribly in part because the defense stayed home imo.

Offense still doesn't look that fluid to me, though, don't know if they'll be able to figure something out there by Saturday. And like you said, guys like Mo Speights probably won't be nearly as good.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Fjordson said:
I think defensively Kerr has something. It's not ideal, but staying big for most of the game is what he's gonna have to do with with Bogut or Ezeli on the floor. And in the pick & roll coverage keep doing the switch where when Bogut's man goes to set the pick up top someone else like Draymond picks him up so that Bogut can stay in the paint. Less gimmick defense also helped, no more roving around and leaving guys like Roberson and Waiters open. OKC only had one corner three the entire game and Roberson and Waiters shot horribly in part because the defense stayed home imo.

Offense still doesn't look that fluid to me, though, don't know if they'll be able to figure something out there by Saturday. And like you said, guys like Mo Speights probably won't be nearly as good.
Click to expand...

I think with games 3 and 4, Bogut got in early foul trouble. I wish we had a guy outside of steph and klay that could hit that corner 3 right now. Spacing on offense is still not ideal. Also, I noticed that the Warriors were consistently pulling back on breaks rather than taking F-you 3's. That was nice to see since bricking those leads to long boards-> OKC fastbreaks.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
Fjordson said:
I think defensively Kerr has something. It's not ideal, but staying big for most of the game is what he's gonna have to do with with Bogut or Ezeli on the floor. And in the pick & roll coverage keep doing the switch where when Bogut's man goes to set the pick up top someone else like Draymond picks him up so that Bogut can stay in the paint. Less gimmick defense also helped, no more roving around and leaving guys like Roberson and Waiters open. OKC only had one corner three the entire game and Roberson and Waiters shot horribly in part because the defense stayed home imo.

Offense still doesn't look that fluid to me, though, don't know if they'll be able to figure something out there by Saturday. And like you said, guys like Mo Speights probably won't be nearly as good.
Click to expand...

I think the Warriors will be happy if Westbrook and Durant have the same (or even greater) production with that the low efficiency rate they had in game 5. I expect that with Westbrook but Durant can just go nuclear at any time

Offensively I think they have been slow to adapt to the fact that Green is really struggling with his shooting and decision making. When he is on then Curry can be more passive and let the game come to him. However, with Green being terrible and Curry staying passive combined with Barnes being a complete non-factor the offense is definitely struggling. They need to move away from Green quickly if they see he is off (I think he is in a bad mental space at this point) and get Curry and Thompson more aggressive. Yes, move the ball but that ball needs to end up with Curry and Thompson more frequently.

I'm not sure what to make of Barnes...love him but, man, he is adding very little the way he is shooting this season.
 
G

Gully State

Member
offtopic said:
I think the Warriors will be happy if Westbrook and Durant have the same (or even greater) production with that the low efficiency rate they had in game 5. I expect that with Westbrook but Durant can just go nuclear at any time

Offensively I think they have been slow to adapt to the fact that Green is really struggling with his shooting and decision making. When he is on then Curry can be more passive and let the game come to him. However, with Green being terrible and Curry staying passive combined with Barnes being a complete non-factor the offense is definitely struggling. They need to move away from Green quickly if they see he is off (I think he is in a bad mental space at this point) and get Curry and Thompson more aggressive. Yes, move the ball but that ball needs to end up with Curry and Thompson more frequently.

I'm not sure what to make of Barnes...love him but, man, he is adding very little the way he is shooting this season.
Click to expand...

Ever since his injury during the regular season, he just completely lost the ability to consistently hit corner 3's. I mean in the beginning of the year and even prior to that he was pretty much automatic at the spot
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
My rational brain tells me the Warriors can't win this series but I've seen too much greatness from them this season to doubt them. They win a close one tomorrow night and finish them off Monday!

This is mainly based off Curry's demeanor last game plus his improved agility.
 
L

Line_HTX

Member
Man... who would've guessed that the Rockets were so tone deaf to hire Mike D'Antoni...

Les Alexander has officially became a worse owner than Bob McNair.



I hope for Toronto's sake that they force Game 7 and learn to freaking play on the road better. God, just beat Cleveland FFS.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Line_HTX said:
Man... who would've guessed that the Rockets were so tone deaf to hire Mike D'Antoni...

Les Alexander has officially became a worse owner than Bob McNair.



I hope for Toronto's sake that they force Game 7 and learn to freaking play on the road better. God, just beat Cleveland FFS.
Click to expand...

eh, D'Antoni's not a terrible coach if he has the right personnel, which he didn't have in NY or LA. I don't think it's a terrible hire, they just have to add the right pieces around Harden.
 
C

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
Ninja Scooter said:
eh, D'Antoni's not a terrible coach if he has the right personnel, which he didn't have in NY or LA. I don't think it's a terrible hire, they just have to add the right pieces around Harden.
Click to expand...

Is the right personnel Prime Steve Nash, Prime Amare Stoudamire, and Prime Shawn Marion?

Sure, he was a good coach for that team. Otherwise, he had one average year with the Knicks and thats it.
 
R

Ripenen

Member
offtopic said:
I think the Warriors will be happy if Westbrook and Durant have the same (or even greater) production with that the low efficiency rate they had in game 5. I expect that with Westbrook but Durant can just go nuclear at any time

Offensively I think they have been slow to adapt to the fact that Green is really struggling with his shooting and decision making. When he is on then Curry can be more passive and let the game come to him. However, with Green being terrible and Curry staying passive combined with Barnes being a complete non-factor the offense is definitely struggling. They need to move away from Green quickly if they see he is off (I think he is in a bad mental space at this point) and get Curry and Thompson more aggressive. Yes, move the ball but that ball needs to end up with Curry and Thompson more frequently.

I'm not sure what to make of Barnes...love him but, man, he is adding very little the way he is shooting this season.
Click to expand...

What would happen if the Warriors started Iggy instead of Barnes?
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
CB3 said:
Is the right personnel Prime Steve Nash, Prime Amare Stoudamire, and Prime Shawn Marion?

Sure, he was a good coach for that team. Otherwise, he had one average year with the Knicks and thats it.
Click to expand...

I mean, is Pop any good without Prime Tim Duncan, Prime Tony Parker or Prime Kawaii Leonard? ALl coaches need players, I just mean the players in NY and LA (which, in fairness, he chose) were not good fits for his system. If he gets players that do, I think he can be successful.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
Gully State said:
Bench unit would suffer greatly. Barnes isn't an instant offense microwave guy nor is he a facilitator.
Click to expand...

I agree but I wonder if maybe they should go with Livingston. If Barnes isn't hitting threes then Shaun does more for them. They can adjust their rotation a bit and maybe mix Clark in a bit more (he has done well when given the chance) and still have Iggy coming off the bench.
 
G

Gully State

Member
offtopic said:
I agree but I wonder if maybe they should go with Livingston. If Barnes isn't hitting threes then Shaun does more for them. They can adjust their rotation a bit and maybe mix Clark in a bit more (he has done well when given the chance) and still have Iggy coming off the bench.
Click to expand...

S-Dot at the 3 is kinda intriguing. You honestly don't lose as much in terms of defense since he can still guard Durant a little. But then what do you honestly gain from starting him over Barnes? I dunno. I don't feel like the offense stalls from the tip. If you look at the blow outs in OKC, it's been the 2nd quarter that has killed us (when the bench unit starts playing). We need to figure out a way to keep pace while the starters aren't in. Maybe just shore up the rotation to the point where Steph and/or Klay are always on the floor rather than rely on bench to hold it down.

As for Clark, I don't think his offensive potential is enough to offset his lack of athleticism at the guard position (compared to the rest of OKC). Waiters would body him up and forget about having him cover Westbrook. I say this as a person who's been fairly positive on Clark all season long too.
 
N

nillah

Banned
offtopic said:
And yet it is all true. Are you just being defensive? (can we go back and forth with these discussion ending quips?)

I really find the Thunder like-able and enjoyable to watch except for Westbrook - I love what Durant is all about, Ibaka seems great, Adams is just tremendous and the coach seems classy and smart. I want to like them but Westbrook's arrogance, stupidity and inefficient, ball-hogging game make it really difficult.
Click to expand...
I mean, that's his game. An aggressive, no mercy style of play has been one of Westbrooks qualities from the get-go. It's sounds to me like you'd be a Curry fan lol and reasonable such, the dudes like the face of the basketball world
 
Lionel Richie

Lionel Richie

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
eh, D'Antoni's not a terrible coach if he has the right personnel, which he didn't have in NY or LA. I don't think it's a terrible hire, they just have to add the right pieces around Harden.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I'm a huge Pringles fan. Get him a good defense minded assistant coach, the right players and an understanding from the front office of his style and he can be very successful. His career went nowhere fast after the 7SOL Suns, but dear God those Suns were fucking awesome.
 
O

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
Gully State said:
S-Dot at the 3 is kinda intriguing. You honestly don't lose as much in terms of defense since he can still guard Durant a little. But then what do you honestly gain from starting him over Barnes? I dunno. I don't feel like the offense stalls from the tip. If you look at the blow outs in OKC, it's been the 2nd quarter that has killed us (when the bench unit starts playing). We need to figure out a way to keep pace while the starters aren't in. Maybe just shore up the rotation to the point where Steph and/or Klay are always on the floor rather than rely on bench to hold it down.

As for Clark, I don't think his offensive potential is enough to offset his lack of athleticism at the guard position (compared to the rest of OKC). Waiters would body him up and forget about having him cover Westbrook. I say this as a person who's been fairly positive on Clark all season long too.
Click to expand...

I think you gain better ball movement and a much more reliable short-midrange game. He becomes a threat to post so the defense has to account for that as well. I'm not sure it would work (and if they should even take any risk with team chemistry right now) but Barnes is just not giving them anything. Combine that was Green going completely mental and neutralizing himself (and he wasn't good last night either) and the offense needs to change or adapt or they will get run in OKC.
 
S

Spinluck

Member
The bench really showed up and made the difference this last game. And Roberson did a shit job guarding Curry putting him on the line all game.

These things will not happen next game, they will adjust.
 
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