SolidSnakex
Member
cybamerc said:
At the sametime, it seems IQ isn't as big of a deal for people it once was important for. It goes both ways.
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NDS: Nanostray
- Thread starter heavy liquid
- Start date
At the sametime, it seems IQ isn't as big of a deal for people it once was important for. It goes both ways.
Milhouse31 said:
gaming technology can never be too powerful, yeah? i mean this is why i appreciate sony's entry, because psp is in a completely different league. nintendo would have taken 5 more years to give us similar technology.
i think psp will cost $300, but they really should bite the bullet and make it $250.
SolidSnakex:
> At the sametime, it seems IQ isn't as big of a deal for people it once was important for.
> It goes both ways.
Not really. I don't think any Nintendo fan would deny that texture filtering would be a nice addition but at the same time I think it's important to have realistic expectations. The NDS is going to be sold at a mass market price and as such something will have to give. And despite what some detractors claim Nintendo has made it clear that the focus of NDS is 2d... a couple of 3d games and tech demos don't change that.
> At the sametime, it seems IQ isn't as big of a deal for people it once was important for.
> It goes both ways.
Not really. I don't think any Nintendo fan would deny that texture filtering would be a nice addition but at the same time I think it's important to have realistic expectations. The NDS is going to be sold at a mass market price and as such something will have to give. And despite what some detractors claim Nintendo has made it clear that the focus of NDS is 2d... a couple of 3d games and tech demos don't change that.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
nitewulf said:
I'd say gaming technology can never be too powerful in the living room but handhelds have too balance power/battery consummation.
There is also the price factor. Handheld are supposed to be cheaper than their big brother but since Sony is trying to create/capture a new market it's not the N°1 issue.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I have no idea. I'm a bit afraid to think about it, to tell you the truth
I just cannot see the technology going in it, realistically costing anything less than $600-$700. Then again, I'm basing that off the Pocket PC and other business handheld prices, which for all I know, might be highly overpriced to begin with.
It's just that, in my experience, bleeding edge tech is always crazy expensive, but that might be more because of manufacturers wanting to make big buck quickly on early adopters, than the cost of actual technology and manufacturing.
You obviously don't know me very well, then. I adopted the PSX very late in the game, and only because it was given to me. I was rather anti-console for a while...and, sadly, visuals were a major part of my argument (I mean, when you saw PSX Tomb Raider and compared it to the 3DFX or PowerVR version, it was hard to believe that ANYONE could stand playing it on PSX). During most of the PSX's life, I was a PC gamer...of course, I later learned that the games themselves are more important than the hardware and was able to enjoy some PSX titles. That wasn't until 1999...which was the year that pushed me back into console gaming (after being away since the Genesis). Really, it was the Dreamcast that brought me back (as I was a big Sega fan from the Genesis days). I promptly bought a Saturn and tons of games for that while I awaited the arrival of Dreamcast.
I've always disliked PS2's image quality, but it was the first system to really show me how polished games could be. Obviously, that had more to do with the developers than the actual hardware...but you better believe I was blown away by some of the stuff PS2 was doing. The Bouncer, while certainly not a good game, truly looked beyond anything I had ever seen before.
So, don't try and suggest that I ignored the flaws of the PSX...because I certainly did not. I'm disappointed in the hardware flaws of the DS, however, but that doesn't mean I won't give the system a shot.
THAT confuses me...
I was watching the live conference when DS was revealed to the public, and the very first games they showed running on the DS were, you guessed it, 3D games! The majority of the DS games thus far seem to be 3D...so I'm not entirely certain where you got the idea that it was created with 2D in mind.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, I mean handhelds costing less than the 'big brother' is an effect localized solely on the Gameboy world. Everywhere else, miniaturization comes at cost. Laptops, Palm/Pocket PCs, tiny 5/6Mpixel cameras.... When you get the same/simillar functionality from the handheld that you get from the 'big brother' it's clear that you are expected to pay more for that.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
Marconelly said:
I'd say around $450 for the manufacturing with Sony selling it at $300 maximum in the State.
edit
Marconelly : That's why I said price is not the main factor. Sony is trying a new thing in the handheld market (powerful tech for big price). Will it work ? Let's wait and see
deadhorse32
Bad Art
dark10x said:
And the Gameboy brand is one of the most ( if not the number one ) successful handheld product in the world.
Maybe there is a correlation
Floyd
Member
dark10x said:You obviously don't know me very well, then. I adopted the PSX very late in the game, and only because it was given to me. I was rather anti-console for a while...and, sadly, visuals were a major part of my argument (I mean, when you saw PSX Tomb Raider and compared it to the 3DFX or PowerVR version, it was hard to believe that ANYONE could stand playing it on PSX). During most of the PSX's life, I was a PC gamer...of course, I later learned that the games themselves are more important than the hardware and was able to enjoy some PSX titles. That wasn't until 1999...which was the year that pushed me back into console gaming (after being away since the Genesis). Really, it was the Dreamcast that brought me back (as I was a big Sega fan from the Genesis days). I promptly bought a Saturn and tons of games for that while I awaited the arrival of Dreamcast.
I've always disliked PS2's image quality, but it was the first system to really show me how polished games could be. Obviously, that had more to do with the developers than the actual hardware...but you better believe I was blown away by some of the stuff PS2 was doing. The Bouncer, while certainly not a good game, truly looked beyond anything I had ever seen before.
So, don't try and suggest that I ignored the flaws of the PSX...because I certainly did not. I'm disappointed in the hardware flaws of the DS, however, but that doesn't mean I won't give the system a shot.
Cool. That was nice because i learned about some geek and his personal preference.
Even though its irrelevant to anyone other than yourself and proves nothing, it was still so very interesting. Nice one.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
dark10x said:
I should have said "Nintendo Handheld" sorry for that
Marconelly said:I have no idea. I'm a bit afraid to think about it, to tell you the truth
I just cannot see the technology going in it, realistically costing anything less than $600-$700. Then again, I'm basing that off the Pocket PC and other business handheld prices, which for all I know, might be highly overpriced to begin with.
LAst time we got a console with the same business plan as a Pocket PC was the 3DO. It launched at 600$ because manufacter was not gaining royalties from games. The year after, psx launched at half the price with better technology but with a royalty oriented business plan. From this, it is clear, PSP will not cost as much as a PDA, because money can come from others sources than the hardware alone.
But, maybe it is just hype from you
"OMG, it can not cost less than 600$", then "OMG, it cost only 300$, what a bargain PSP is more a threat to all those WMA movie player (and later in its life to the gameboy brand). Nice strategy.
Kobun Heat
Member
I'm confident that the PSP's price is going to be very attractive considering the technology inside it. That said, $199 = no. $249 = absolute best case scenario, but still no. $299 = much more likely.
By the way, in reference to the DS and where it's being "positioned" as a system. I don't believe for a second that the DS itself was a "kneejerk reaction" to the PSP (despite what certain designers of the "Xboy" said before E3). What I do believe, after the press conference, is that the decision to put 3D titles like Metroid Prime: Hunters up at the forefront was a reaction to the fact that the PSP would be there. I wouldn't even be shocked if Hunters was developed as a reaction to the PSP.
(Watch how I cleanly get back on topic.)
The introduction of Nanostray further closes the gap between NDS and PSP. At first, there was a wide gulf between the two systems. That's because as far as we knew there was no such thing as the NDS. Then Nintendo's system was announced, and the gap shortened, but it was still widely assumed that the system wouldn't do anything resembling modern 3D. Then it was shown off at E3 and suddenly it pushed 3D a lot harder than people expected. Then comes Nanostray and the 3D just gets better.
I mean... there's still a big difference between the two systems. It just keeps getting smaller, and less significant.
By the way, in reference to the DS and where it's being "positioned" as a system. I don't believe for a second that the DS itself was a "kneejerk reaction" to the PSP (despite what certain designers of the "Xboy" said before E3). What I do believe, after the press conference, is that the decision to put 3D titles like Metroid Prime: Hunters up at the forefront was a reaction to the fact that the PSP would be there. I wouldn't even be shocked if Hunters was developed as a reaction to the PSP.
(Watch how I cleanly get back on topic.)
The introduction of Nanostray further closes the gap between NDS and PSP. At first, there was a wide gulf between the two systems. That's because as far as we knew there was no such thing as the NDS. Then Nintendo's system was announced, and the gap shortened, but it was still widely assumed that the system wouldn't do anything resembling modern 3D. Then it was shown off at E3 and suddenly it pushed 3D a lot harder than people expected. Then comes Nanostray and the 3D just gets better.
I mean... there's still a big difference between the two systems. It just keeps getting smaller, and less significant.
DeEJaYMiND
Member
Kobun Heat said:
If you like you can use this
J/K
SolidSnakex
Member
"I mean... there's still a big difference between the two systems. It just keeps getting smaller, and less significant."
I'm sure that'll change come TGS since we haven't saw a new PSP game since E3. It's still fairly significant when you look at basically every other 3D DS game in comparison to the PSP games shown so far.
I'm sure that'll change come TGS since we haven't saw a new PSP game since E3. It's still fairly significant when you look at basically every other 3D DS game in comparison to the PSP games shown so far.
MaddenNFL64
Member
The online scoreboards are accessible from the DS, so it's a start.
That means technically, the DS is ONLINE!
That means technically, the DS is ONLINE
!Bluemercury
Member
Milhouse31 said:
I agree with this part "I'd say gaming technology can never be too powerful in the living room but handhelds have too balance power/battery consummation."
Bluemercury
Member
Jacobi said:
Whos that?
Probably the same as with the GC hardwareAirBrian said:This is very positive. Now imagine what Nintendo will do with this.
But I also find this very positive. If you look how the GBA is being maxed out, there'll be some real hot DS graphics I think (and you'll be even able to play it for a while
).JasoNsider
Member
AirBrian said:This is very positive. Now imagine what Nintendo will do with this.
BTW, thanks for posting this, Jason.
Hey, no problem Brian.
I imagine that if Shin'en can do it (no graphical "glitches") then they will not be the last developer. We need bigger screens though, just be positive.
Kobun Heat
Member
Especially since Shin'en is in the business of licensing out its technology.JasoNsider said:
JasoNsider
Member
Kobun Heat said:
Good point. Read the part about the sound as well...they can get better than CD quality sound. That is very nice to hear. Imagine the music coming out Crystal Chronicles DS...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Isn't 16 bits at 44 KHz what is normally known as CD quality sound ?
To say the truth, they have space for more data if they really wanted to focus on sound quality: they can follow what PlayStation 2 does with SPU2 and go to 16 bits at 48 KHz.
To say the truth, they have space for more data if they really wanted to focus on sound quality: they can follow what PlayStation 2 does with SPU2 and go to 16 bits at 48 KHz.
JasoNsider said:
Now THAT is not something I have high hopes for...
I will remain VERY skeptical about the sound until I hear it for myself. Shin'en's GBA games had some of the best audio on that system, so I am not suprised that they are doing good work...but the vast majority of GBA games so FAR worse.
Yeah, but it looks like Shin'en is the only company out there offering a sound solution for the NDS (and I'll bet Nintendo chose them for a reason, remember those rumors about Nintendo not allowing a third party sound solution , but immediately after, Shin'en said that they weren't affected?)
If this is the official sound tool, I don't think we have anything to worry about.
If this is the official sound tool, I don't think we have anything to worry about.
cybamerc said:
I know. I said earlier that it was a third party solution. What I want to know, though, is who did the official sound tools and drivers for the NDS. No one's really talked about that. I suppose it could be Nintendo proper, as I guess we would have heard from somewhere if Factor 5 was involved at all.
And I still find it odd that only Shin'en has a third party sound solution.
Lost Weekend said:
They sounded like cheap MIDI versions of the original songs...
You can do very realistic sounding music without using pre-recording digital music tracks. I mean, listen to something like Onimusha...the quality of the music is EXTREMELY high, but it doesn't use pre-recorded tunes. On the disc, the entire soundtrack only required about 25-30mb of space.
Factor 5's music system worked very well for N64, where space was a serious concern...but on GC, it just seems like a waste. I am quite a game music fan, so I listen to a LOT of soundtracks...and I found the actual music quality of the two GC F5 games to be rather poor. I just don't understand the purpose behind it...
Lost Weekend:
> What I want to know, though, is who did the official sound tools and drivers for the NDS.
Nintendo as usual I reckon.
> I suppose it could be Nintendo proper, as I guess we would have heard from
> somewhere if Factor 5 was involved at all.
MusyX is not the standard sound solution for Cube or GBA. It has to be licensed. I guess we'll learn soon enough if MusyX is being ported to NDS. I know that some find it too resource demanding.
> And I still find it odd that only Shin'en has a third party sound solution.
Well, the platform isn't even out yet and who offered 3. party solutions besides F5 and Shin'en for GBA?
> What I want to know, though, is who did the official sound tools and drivers for the NDS.
Nintendo as usual I reckon.
> I suppose it could be Nintendo proper, as I guess we would have heard from
> somewhere if Factor 5 was involved at all.
MusyX is not the standard sound solution for Cube or GBA. It has to be licensed. I guess we'll learn soon enough if MusyX is being ported to NDS. I know that some find it too resource demanding.
> And I still find it odd that only Shin'en has a third party sound solution.
Well, the platform isn't even out yet and who offered 3. party solutions besides F5 and Shin'en for GBA?
Scalemail Ted
Member
Hope this plays as a 'top-down shooter'.