Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
This is a tl;dr version of what I wrote above (and I know it is nitpicky, but it is an important semantic distinction).
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nush
Gold Member
Funny that I also crossed paths with him today making statements of fact and when I asked for clarification or to provide sources to support his position, *Radio silence*.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Agreed. No reason to imply that the console will have thermal issues. Both Microsoft and Sony have been bitten in the ass by that in the past, no reason to think they'll repeat that mistake.
Anyhow, this is the wrong thread for this kind of discussion.
Xplainin
Banned
When Sony was designing the PS5 console, one of the biggest issues they would have had to deal with is the cooling solution for the console. No it's, no buts, no Maybe's.
They would have spent far more time and money into making sure they got a good solution to it than they did on the PS4. They revealed patents showing how exotic the cooling was on their dev kits with 6 fans used to cool it.
To thread ban someone for saying Sony faced thermal issues when designing the PS5 is head shaking.
What I said was factual.
Your quote:
The articles you have quoted does not say there are 'thermal issues' when both components are running at peak loads, which is the position you have asserted.
You keep highlighting parts which we have not contested. Who said this statement was trolling? The quote is up there and bolded. That is what you are being asked to evidence.
That describes how the power budget works and that it is tied to the cooling solution. That power budget allows both GPU and CPU running at their peak frequencies. The cooling solution is adequate and scaled for both components to be running at their top speeds as stated by the lead engineer. Your position is that there are thermal issues caused by this scenario. And this is what you are being asked to evidence. Prove that there are these thermal issues when someone sits down to play a game and both GPU and CPU are at peak. The issue you are trying to manufacture via insinuation is clear, which is why we clearly referenced subtle trolling.
Relevant post also linked:
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
How many of you are content with having "Next Generation" games be native 4k, 30FPS with RTX on? I think many will end up like that and we've already seen proof of it happening. (Assassin's Creed Valhalla). That, frankly, is well beyond what I was expecting with ray-tracing in the picture. I...
And we take that into account on a per user basis. Which is why this user was discussed. We don't believe them to be acting in good faith after reviewing their activity and threads, and soft touch action has been taken to course correct. They have been made a counter offer of which they are still to demonstrate to prove their credibility and legitimacy. All we are asking for is a bolded quote from a reputable source that says what this user is asserting 'the PS5 will have thermal issues (beyond any normal thermal scoping) if it runs both the GPU and CPU at the maximum frequencies specified by Mark Cerny' because that is the implication. At the moment, the point of contestation is that the cooling solution has been built with both the CPU and GPU running at maximum frequencies (as specified by Mark Cerny) and was accounted for in the power budget that the cooling solution is scaled for. Therefore, there will be no 'thermal issues', just the known thermal output which the console is designed around. Until we have that compelling evidence, the matter is now closed, lest it just ends up in cyclical arguments. You are also free to find the said material for the above user - as always these are open offers.
Xplainin
Banned
I didnt write that PS5 will have over heating issues when released. I was talking about thermal issues from a design point of view. As in it would have been something Sony had to put alot of effort into when coming up with how to build the box.
My point about Smartshift was that it was apart if the whole solution Sony came up with.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I wont get into the technical details, since I dont want to waste my mental resources on a circular argument. Look at the bolded parts and ask yourself, what is a speculation ?
I have posted only once in the Next Gen Speculation thread, so this is a rare occasion I discussed this topic in GAF. For those who hate the Next Gen Speculation thread, dont post there. Theres know way people with different opinion would get along, so its pointless to convince others and makes you look stupid anyway. There is a Xbox general, meme thread and thread on every Xbox related topic.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Cerny in the GDC talk said, and I will paraphrase the quote, “there was plenty of overhead to drive the clocks much higher, but the current logic could not keep up so we had to settle on a cap”
Sure reads to me like RDNA2 has made good advancements on the level of TDP. And logic will need to be rewritten going forward as next gen advances and clocks push the envelope more in all graphics arena.
Conveniently that was overlooked in the DF article people want to reference. A very important piece of information about RDNA2 advancements over RDNA1.
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Xplainin
Banned
You are taking my quote out of context. You are trying to asurt that I was implying that the PS5 would have cooling issues when released, when that is nothing about what I said.Your quote:
The articles you have quoted does not say there are 'thermal issues' when both components are running at peak loads, which is the position you have asserted.
You keep highlighting parts which we have not contested. Who said this statement was trolling? The quote is up there and bolded. That is what you are being asked to evidence.
That describes how the power budget works and that it is tied to the cooling solution. That power budget allows both GPU and CPU running at their peak frequencies. The cooling solution is adequate and scaled for both components to be running at their top speeds as stated by the lead engineer. Your position is that there are thermal issues caused by this scenario. And this is what you are being asked to evidence. Prove that there are these thermal issues when someone sits down to play a game and both GPU and CPU are at peak. The issue you are trying to manufacture via insinuation is clear, which is why we clearly referenced subtle trolling.
Relevant post also linked:
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
How many of you are content with having "Next Generation" games be native 4k, 30FPS with RTX on? I think many will end up like that and we've already seen proof of it happening. (Assassin's Creed Valhalla). That, frankly, is well beyond what I was expecting with ray-tracing in the picture. I...www.neogaf.com
And we take that into account on a per user basis. Which is why this user was discussed. We don't believe them to be acting in good faith after reviewing their activity and threads, and soft touch action has been taken to course correct. They have been made a counter offer of which they are still to demonstrate to prove their credibility and legitimacy. All we are asking for is a bolded quote from a reputable source that says what this user is asserting 'the PS5 will have thermal issues (beyond any normal thermal scoping) if it runs both the GPU and CPU at the maximum frequencies specified by Mark Cerny' because that is the implication. At the moment, the point of contestation is that the cooling solution has been built with both the CPU and GPU running at maximum frequencies (as specified by Mark Cerny) and was accounted for in the power budget that the cooling solution is scaled for. Therefore, there will be no 'thermal issues', just the known thermal output which the console is designed around. Until we have that compelling evidence, the matter is now closed, lest it just ends up in cyclical arguments. You are also free to find the said material for the above user - as always these are open offers.
I was talking about the design of the PS5, and why they adopted things such as Smartshift and variable clocks.
I said that running the clocks so high would have presented thermal issues for Sony and they adopted things like Smartshift and Variable clocks as a part of dealing with it.
If what I wrote is ban worthy, not only ban worthy but threats of site ban and a stupid trolling headline then I dont know what to say.
And when it's demonstrated that the reason given was weak a best you just throw out the general disclaimer of reviewing activity and threads.
I can now only be left to assume the motivation of your action, as it wasnt from an impartial one.
Fake
Gold Member
You have a history of problematic posts, so I don't really sure you are up to call someone impartial.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Either they don't understand it, or want to push a narrative.
I would listen to the system architect who was talking to developers directly (the whole point of that GDC talk), over sites/YouTube with technical inept people who have agenda or cognitive issues. Linus already had to walk it back and make an apology tour, others are not as humble.
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Xplainin
Banned
Problematic? Ok, which ones?
Just because someone post something that you dont agree with doesnt make it trolling. There are plenty of posts I disagree with here, but I don't consider them trolling and I don't report them.
People can have different opinions.
Fake
Gold Member
I prefer to believe in bad faith. We're talking about Mark Cerny, game designer, game producer, entertainment executive and lead hardware designer.
Imagine ignoring Microsoft or Nintendo lead hardware designer.
I guess you don't know what 'opinions' really means.
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Xplainin
Banned
I asked you for examples of my "problematic" posts, you reply with that.
That tells me all I need to know.
Fake
Gold Member
'Report me for trolling/bait > 07/10'
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
You mean the guy claiming next gen consoles are on 5 nm is trying to call someone else out. He is taking the mick, saying something that is blatently fanboy wish list for Lockart and seeing who will bite. Of course there is no 5nm for consoles, apple will use it all up end of this year and it...
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Ascend
Member
If this post gets me banned, so be it. But I have to say it. It is getting tiring.
Sony implemented SmartShift because they wanted higher clocks for the same power. And they did the shifting and boosting based on workload rather than temperature because they wanted performance to be reliable and not vary based on the environment your PS5 finds itself in. All reasonable decisions. It is not warning- nor ban-worthy to say that they had trouble keeping the high frequencies due to thermal issues. It's technically power delivery, so it's not exactly the same thing but the two are directly correlated.
Part of the issue here is that whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the PS5, it is instantly assumed that the user is doing so out of malice. In other words, no one is allowed to be 'wrong' on any slight detail, and trolling is instantly the label that gets slapped on you to justify the warnings and the ban threats. You better be a flawless expert if you want to say anything that's not in praise of the PS5, otherwise you're just a troll, trying to derail blah blah blah. This happens especially in the next gen speculation thread. And even IF you are a flawless expert, you still better watch out.
However, whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the XSX, either ignorance or neutrality is assumed. In other words, they are allowed to be wrong. In fact, they are allowed to be wrong after being corrected multiple times and they keep repeating the same things over and over.
And while the former group immediately gets warnings and ban threats, the latter group gets e-mails and general replies in threads when reported, if the matter is handled at all. The latter group seems to get off a lot easier, which is particularly weird, because the latter group is a lot larger. Or maybe that is exactly the reason...
Things have improved a bit over the last month or so, but they still are not what they need to be.
In any case... Just some piece of advice
Xplainin
... Just stay away of the next gen speculation thread. It is a PS5 praising thread, and anything else gets mass reported and will get you labeled a troll. To me, I still got falsely accused and thread-banned unfairly, and got a bunch of unfair warnings on top of that. But it is too much of a shitfest in that thread for me to bother appealing anything anymore.
So do I. Especially where he stated that they had trouble maintaining 2GHz on the GPU with the traditional way of doing power delivery. Timestamped;
Sony implemented SmartShift because they wanted higher clocks for the same power. And they did the shifting and boosting based on workload rather than temperature because they wanted performance to be reliable and not vary based on the environment your PS5 finds itself in. All reasonable decisions. It is not warning- nor ban-worthy to say that they had trouble keeping the high frequencies due to thermal issues. It's technically power delivery, so it's not exactly the same thing but the two are directly correlated.
Part of the issue here is that whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the PS5, it is instantly assumed that the user is doing so out of malice. In other words, no one is allowed to be 'wrong' on any slight detail, and trolling is instantly the label that gets slapped on you to justify the warnings and the ban threats. You better be a flawless expert if you want to say anything that's not in praise of the PS5, otherwise you're just a troll, trying to derail blah blah blah. This happens especially in the next gen speculation thread. And even IF you are a flawless expert, you still better watch out.
However, whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the XSX, either ignorance or neutrality is assumed. In other words, they are allowed to be wrong. In fact, they are allowed to be wrong after being corrected multiple times and they keep repeating the same things over and over.
And while the former group immediately gets warnings and ban threats, the latter group gets e-mails and general replies in threads when reported, if the matter is handled at all. The latter group seems to get off a lot easier, which is particularly weird, because the latter group is a lot larger. Or maybe that is exactly the reason...
Things have improved a bit over the last month or so, but they still are not what they need to be.
In any case... Just some piece of advice
Xplainin
... Just stay away of the next gen speculation thread. It is a PS5 praising thread, and anything else gets mass reported and will get you labeled a troll. To me, I still got falsely accused and thread-banned unfairly, and got a bunch of unfair warnings on top of that. But it is too much of a shitfest in that thread for me to bother appealing anything anymore.
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SleepDoctor
Banned
If this post gets me banned, so be it. But I have to say it. It is getting tiring.
So do I. Especially where he stated that they had trouble maintaining 2GHz on the GPU with the traditional way of doing power delivery. Timestamped;
Sony implemented SmartShift because they wanted higher clocks for the same power. And they did the shifting and boosting based on workload rather than temperature because they wanted performance to be reliable and not vary based on the environment your PS5 finds itself in. All reasonable decisions. It is not warning- nor ban-worthy to say that they had trouble keeping the high frequencies due to thermal issues. It's technically power delivery, so it's not exactly the same thing but the two are directly correlated.
Part of the issue here is that whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the PS5, it is instantly assumed that the user is doing so out of malice. In other words, no one is allowed to be 'wrong' on any slight detail, and trolling is instantly the label that gets slapped on you to justify the warnings and the ban threats. You better be a flawless expert if you want to say anything that's not in praise of the PS5, otherwise you're just a troll, trying to derail blah blah blah. This happens especially in the next gen speculation thread. And even IF you are a flawless expert, you still better watch out.
However, whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the XSX, either ignorance or neutrality is assumed. In other words, they are allowed to be wrong. In fact, they are allowed to be wrong after being corrected multiple times and they keep repeating the same things over and over.
And while the former group immediately gets warnings and ban threats, the latter group gets e-mails and general replies in threads when reported, if the matter is handled at all. The latter group seems to get off a lot easier, which is particularly weird, because the latter group is a lot larger. Or maybe that is exactly the reason...
Things have improved a bit over the last month or so, but they still are not what they need to be.
In any case... Just some piece of advice
That thread is a joke. And while
Bill O'Rights
stated that brute forcing narrative is bannable, I've seen 3 people continously use it. One guy just yesterday doubled and tripled down on it. And not one ban. Moderation has definitely gotten better but still way more lee way for the individuals in the spec thread.
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Xplainin
Banned
If this post gets me banned, so be it. But I have to say it. It is getting tiring.
So do I. Especially where he stated that they had trouble maintaining 2GHz on the GPU with the traditional way of doing power delivery. Timestamped;
Sony implemented SmartShift because they wanted higher clocks for the same power. And they did the shifting and boosting based on workload rather than temperature because they wanted performance to be reliable and not vary based on the environment your PS5 finds itself in. All reasonable decisions. It is not warning- nor ban-worthy to say that they had trouble keeping the high frequencies due to thermal issues. It's technically power delivery, so it's not exactly the same thing but the two are directly correlated.
Part of the issue here is that whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the PS5, it is instantly assumed that the user is doing so out of malice. In other words, no one is allowed to be 'wrong' on any slight detail, and trolling is instantly the label that gets slapped on you to justify the warnings and the ban threats. You better be a flawless expert if you want to say anything that's not in praise of the PS5, otherwise you're just a troll, trying to derail blah blah blah. This happens especially in the next gen speculation thread. And even IF you are a flawless expert, you still better watch out.
However, whenever something other than a purely positive outlook is posted about the XSX, either ignorance or neutrality is assumed. In other words, they are allowed to be wrong. In fact, they are allowed to be wrong after being corrected multiple times and they keep repeating the same things over and over.
And while the former group immediately gets warnings and ban threats, the latter group gets e-mails and general replies in threads when reported, if the matter is handled at all. The latter group seems to get off a lot easier, which is particularly weird, because the latter group is a lot larger. Or maybe that is exactly the reason...
Things have improved a bit over the last month or so, but they still are not what they need to be.
In any case... Just some piece of advice
After my experience I would say I agree with you.
I guess I'm not the type of poster that's wanted here.
I don't think I will post much now. Just come and see what breaking news is happening and the like.
Ascend
Member
There is no mention of 9TF in the Road to PS5 as far as I can remember.Ascend can you timestamped the part Cerny talk about 9TF or thermal issues? I must missed that.
There is mention of power delivery, which is directly correlated to heat & cooling. What I already timestamped is an implied (but not stated) thermal issue. Thermal issues can have different causes. It can be inefficient power delivery, too high clocks, inefficient architecture, inefficient manufacturing node, and there are likely a few more that I cannot think of right now. Sony tackled the inefficient power delivery, since obviously any inefficient manufacturing node or architecture is out of their hands. By tackling the inefficient power delivery, they can achieve higher clocks for the same power delivery (and thus cooling) budget.
They did mention their thermal issues in the past with previous consoles, and how the current way of doing things was adopted to correct for these issues in the PS5. That does not necessarily mean that the PS5 had thermal issues, although it doesn't exactly rule it out either. What we know for a fact is that they had clocking issues for what they wanted to achieve. Anyone that is interested can go look up for themselves what the factors are that can limit clocks.
It is understandable that some people can misremember or misinterpret things, and, in my opinion, it is too harsh to immediately receive warnings/ban threats because of this. I must mention that I have not looked into anyone's post history. I can understand if someone ultimately gets that after being corrected by both the users and the mods. That being said, I expect that to apply for all sides.
Same here... I have reduced my amount of posts. Not only does it allow me to keep a cool head and reply a lot more carefully, I actually am able to do productive things rather than wasting as much of my time here.
nush
Gold Member
We don't need the community to pull together to get that perfect 10/10 score. He's doing a fine job of working to that by himself by adding quantifiers to his statements but also saying those statements are fact.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
OH, the irony. How's that secret Xbox discord or the evil DF Xbox fanboys narrative these days? At least the good Sony fans were able to drive DF out of GAF, I think that was mainly over their report on GitHub leak conspiracy (that proved to be true).
SleepDoctor
"That thread is a joke. And while
Bill O'Rights
stated that brute forcing narrative is bannable, I've seen 3 people continously use it. One guy just yesterday doubled and tripled down on it. And not one ban. "Yep saw several instances by multiple users yesterday too, probably one of them is the same guy you're talking about. He repeated Xbox brute force in several posts.
Fake
Gold Member
He should search what was the last time I posted in the next gen thread.
Imagine whining on the ban thread because of one single thread? Why not put the thread on the ignore list and move on?
If they could make their eyes work proper, just a little look at the ban list we see Sony fanboys getting ban as well. The Last of Us part2 defenders to be precise.
I guess you're not getting the joke about Alex. I give you time. Feel free to seek my post about been invited to a Playstation discord when I was on the resetera to do the same.
But hey, CONSULE WUARS1!!!!
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Fake
Gold Member
No U.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
That's fake? Well now I just feel foolish
Jooxed
Gold Member
Can we be best friends again.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I tried that yesterday. Good luck finding one unless you want to pay $500-$600 from 3rd parties.
Saber
Member
When it finally arrives in Brazil maybe. They are still selling WiiUs here lmao
Kagey K
Banned
Well At least you can still play a large portion of the Switch’s exclusives if you buy one.
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Ascend
Member
Fake
Gold Member
BEElieve.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Phil Spencer feels it's counter productive to lock people away from games by making them device exclusive, prefers to scale games across ecosystem
Next-gen exclusives – are they necessary to push the industry and artform forward or do they just unnecessarily divide players? Sony takes the former position and will launch the PlayStation 5 with the usual array of exclusives, while Microsoft supports the latter and has promised all...
Are Xbox Series X developers being held back by Xbox One?
This is part of a series of features with Xbox Game Studios. Check out the teams discuss life as a Microsoft-owned comp…
www.gamesindustry.biz
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SleepDoctor
Banned
This is the actual interview this thread and linked article is talking about(No mention of PS5 in here)Phil Spencer feels it's counter productive to lock people away from games by making them device exclusive, prefers to scale games across ecosystem
Next-gen exclusives – are they necessary to push the industry and artform forward or do they just unnecessarily divide players? Sony takes the former position and will launch the PlayStation 5 with the usual array of exclusives, while Microsoft supports the latter and has promised all...
Are Xbox Series X developers being held back by Xbox One?
This is part of a series of features with Xbox Game Studios. Check out the teams discuss life as a Microsoft-owned comp…
Its funny how
Rolla
just got banned for the same shit yet now its been up for a minute.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Someone quoted me saying why did I hop in on that thread, like its some circlejerk thread I am not allowed to post in.Its funny how
SleepDoctor
Banned
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I dont know if he is joking. He also said this to me before. Dont even know who he is, but loves quoting me.
SleepDoctor
Banned
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
That thread is a joke. And while
Moderation has definitely gotten better but still way more lee way for the individuals in the spec thread.
I would assume they've been thread banned but without the black banner as they aren't always applied.
Its funny how
Can't expect moderation to be instant. The mod team is still relatively small and not likely to be online/available at all times.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Doubt he's thread banned. Repeated it 3 times and supposedly mods said its bannable like the 9.2 tf shit if you have no proof. But I guess thats not the case. No point in saying something if you ain't keeping your word.
We're talking about grown ass 40 year olds who don't know how to act on a forum and yet get so much lee way.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It's weird people are so addicted to their PS5 conspiracy theories they will commit account suicide. I would never in my entire internet life get away with arguing with a moderator like this when they've made it crystal clear what they expect of me.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Well they could have been lost in the torrent of reporting from warriors.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Tesseract
Banned
you were excommunicated by a gang of psychopaths
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Then go talk to your Xbox fanboy buddies at Digital Foundry. They run the Xbox discord and anti-Mother Sony FUD factory.
sonomamashine
Member
Who ?
SleepDoctor
?I believe mods said its bannable like the 9.2 tf nonsense, you dont see people throwing 9.2 teraflops anymore without being banned, which is acceptable without a proof, but on the other side they have no problem throwing xbox brute forcing, baiting etc...
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