SnakeswithLasers
Member
Let's play some gaf vs. gaf scrimmages tonight if we have at least 3 or 4 people. I need to get some work at goalie.
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NeoGAF NHL 10 EASHL Team (X360)
- Thread starter Marvie_3
- Start date
The games get kind of boring when every puck possession results in a "breakaway" into 3/4 defenders. We aren't passing the puck at all and the defensemen are all but wasted. The majority of opponents are silly enough to rush the blue line, it would do us good to stop rushing the net and draw 1/2/3 of them away from position.
On defense, nobody is hitting anyone. They willingly move around the entire area with the puck. Knock someone on their ass into the boards or tie them up.
It just feels like everyone is playing single player.
On defense, nobody is hitting anyone. They willingly move around the entire area with the puck. Knock someone on their ass into the boards or tie them up.
It just feels like everyone is playing single player.
We also have to stop calling for the fucking puck all the time when we aren't open. Creates way too many turnovers which creates way too many scoring opportunites for the other team.SanjuroTsubaki said:
Also, taking shitty penalties has to stop. Doesn't do us any good when we're on the penalty kill all the time.
I take personal offense to your line about defense. I usually play LW/RW but if you look, I'm usually parked in front of the net trying to clear the crease when we're in our zone. Because, as we all know, our AI defensemen aren't going to do it.
We play identical on the PK or not.
I never really call for the puck. I hardly even touched the puck the other night. On the wings you trail the opposing wingers...almost 9/10 they are coming up the sides. There are many opportunities to take them down and be more physical. Simply crowding the net doesn't work. in all instances.
I never really call for the puck. I hardly even touched the puck the other night. On the wings you trail the opposing wingers...almost 9/10 they are coming up the sides. There are many opportunities to take them down and be more physical. Simply crowding the net doesn't work. in all instances.
Actually, we don't play identical on the PK. We try to clear it unless we can get a good break out. We'd be stupid not to try and make something happen on the PK if we have the chance.SanjuroTsubaki said:
And I don't recall saying crowding the net was our strategy. I simply said I try to get people cleared out of the crease area, not just block. There's a big difference between taking away shots and standing there hoping to be in the way.
I completely agree with you on the being physical part but its hard to do when none of us can check someone off the puck no matter how many times they get hit. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but we really need to pin people a lot more. We already know that checking someone against the boards doesn't work, so anytime an opponent has the puck near the boards, WE HAVE TO PIN THEM.
Anyways, we need to play some scrimmage games. We have a lot of things going wrong for us right now that we need to fix, and fast.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Dump and chase is miserable in this game--it's too easy for the defenders to get it and ping pong it out of the zone. Shit, it doesn't even work against us, so you know it's not effective. It's just a turnover or an invitation to take a holding penalty.
Some games we're really on with our neutral zone play, some games we're terrible. Checking on defense is the last thing we need to do though, especially on the boards.
Always pin, 100% of the time: Pin. Never go for the check when you can pin.
The inability to hit someone on the boards except for 1 or 2 of 10 times is what causes us to get burned and give up breakaways or 2 on 1 opportunities. Too often our defenders choose to come up and check at the blueline instead of using position to keep them to the outside. The check inevitably fails, and there goes a rush on our goalie.
Also, the game is miserably unrealistic, especially concerning defense. 9/10 teams go for the cross-crease and our AI are miserable in the crease, so we need to have someone down there clearing out the crease. This gives up shots from the point and allows them to cycle effectively. In the 200 games I've played online, it has been a trade off of "what are we going to give up--the glitched wrist shots, or the cross-crease?" Both are lethal, and both are compounded by bad defence, especially from the AI (who can't play in the crease for shit).
But I wouldn't generalize about our play based on the last 10 games--we've played a lot of games together, I'm around 200, Pheenix is, I think, above 300, and Marvie is probably close to 400. We ended last season on a very good run, and were a game off .500, which was impressive considering how much we had to claw back after a bad start to the season. And a game under is a huge improvement from our first season. We started this current season 7-1 or 9-2. We've had a really bad run lately, but generally our chemistry was really developing over the last 30 or 40 games. We just need to play some scrimmages and work on everything, from our defence, to the breakout, to just cycling in the zone.
Some games we're really on with our neutral zone play, some games we're terrible. Checking on defense is the last thing we need to do though, especially on the boards.
Always pin, 100% of the time: Pin. Never go for the check when you can pin.
The inability to hit someone on the boards except for 1 or 2 of 10 times is what causes us to get burned and give up breakaways or 2 on 1 opportunities. Too often our defenders choose to come up and check at the blueline instead of using position to keep them to the outside. The check inevitably fails, and there goes a rush on our goalie.
Also, the game is miserably unrealistic, especially concerning defense. 9/10 teams go for the cross-crease and our AI are miserable in the crease, so we need to have someone down there clearing out the crease. This gives up shots from the point and allows them to cycle effectively. In the 200 games I've played online, it has been a trade off of "what are we going to give up--the glitched wrist shots, or the cross-crease?" Both are lethal, and both are compounded by bad defence, especially from the AI (who can't play in the crease for shit).
But I wouldn't generalize about our play based on the last 10 games--we've played a lot of games together, I'm around 200, Pheenix is, I think, above 300, and Marvie is probably close to 400. We ended last season on a very good run, and were a game off .500, which was impressive considering how much we had to claw back after a bad start to the season. And a game under is a huge improvement from our first season. We started this current season 7-1 or 9-2. We've had a really bad run lately, but generally our chemistry was really developing over the last 30 or 40 games. We just need to play some scrimmages and work on everything, from our defence, to the breakout, to just cycling in the zone.
Dumping the puck is certainly more effective that poorly penetrating the line to a quick theft of the puck.
I agree with the pinning part, but that is more effective and executable when past the blue line and they are set up. There are many opportunities to nail them on the way down or playing off of them.
I agree with the pinning part, but that is more effective and executable when past the blue line and they are set up. There are many opportunities to nail them on the way down or playing off of them.
I think we need to have a better vision of the ice in general. I'm talking about passing mostly. We should make more simple passes because I've found that there are many passes that you think will be successful but end up not being so and with you saying "WTF" so we need to be smarter about that. And don't be afraid to move the puck horizontally too, the more we swing it to the other side, the more shit opens up.
And the second issue I think is spacing on offense. If you're a winger you should always be trying to form a triangle with the other wings. And I think one thing we could do better is making the extra pass. A lot of times I think we're content with doing one pass and then shooting, but we should make the D move as much as possible. If you do catch a pass and happen to have a good shot or space to move into, then take it by all means but I think there are shots that can be passed up for better shots. and yes there will be times when we get hit by defenders unexpectedly but we should be persistent in our effort
Also as you guys know I get a lot of fast breaks and on some of those the opponent crowds the net early. In this case we have a tendency to just crash the net, but I think instead we should find space to receive a pass. A lot of the take bad shot/crash net shit doesn't work so we should think about passing it around first (unless you do have a sexy fastbreak that you can't pass up!) and in general when someone has the puck everybody should position themselves to be able to receive a pass, and we should spread out a lot more too.
and on defense I think we should have three defenders in front of the net, and that third one is marvie who does a good job of preventing cross crease pony shit. the other wingers should focus on guarding the defensemen of the other team and trying to pick off their passes back to the point. if we intercept it its an automatic fastbreak
wow i just wrote a nhl EASHL strategy thesis
And the second issue I think is spacing on offense. If you're a winger you should always be trying to form a triangle with the other wings. And I think one thing we could do better is making the extra pass. A lot of times I think we're content with doing one pass and then shooting, but we should make the D move as much as possible. If you do catch a pass and happen to have a good shot or space to move into, then take it by all means but I think there are shots that can be passed up for better shots. and yes there will be times when we get hit by defenders unexpectedly but we should be persistent in our effort
Also as you guys know I get a lot of fast breaks and on some of those the opponent crowds the net early. In this case we have a tendency to just crash the net, but I think instead we should find space to receive a pass. A lot of the take bad shot/crash net shit doesn't work so we should think about passing it around first (unless you do have a sexy fastbreak that you can't pass up!) and in general when someone has the puck everybody should position themselves to be able to receive a pass, and we should spread out a lot more too.
and on defense I think we should have three defenders in front of the net, and that third one is marvie who does a good job of preventing cross crease pony shit. the other wingers should focus on guarding the defensemen of the other team and trying to pick off their passes back to the point. if we intercept it its an automatic fastbreak
wow i just wrote a nhl EASHL strategy thesis
Dumping the puck in does not work. The game is stupid in that it allows the defensemen to skate backwards just as fast as any of the forwards can skate. That gives you no chance to get behind them and pick up the puck behind the net.SanjuroTsubaki said:
This is why I started dropping down on defense. The AI doesn't do a fucking thing so I try to limit cross-crease passes and shitty rebound goals as much as I can. Our defense still has to be a lot more aggressive above the faceoff circles. Taking away shots from the point would do wonders for our defense. We know teams are going to spam that wrist shot, so we need to get in their face and knock them on their asses when they come across looking for that shot. Even if we don't knock them over, just delaying them or forcing them to take a bad shot will help a lot.SnakeswithLasers said:
This. The play where we slap it around the boards to the opposite wing has seemed to worked fairly well for not only clearing the zone, but also getting good pressure into the opponent's end. I hit ph33nix with a few of these last night and he got a few good pushes into their zone. It just sucks when the game randomly decides not to let your player pick up the puck even when they aren't pressured and the pass just slides by.SnakeswithLasers said:
They are both guaranteed turnovers.SanjuroTsubaki said:
We also need to stop being afraid of passing the puck back instead of trying to plow into their zone. Dumping the puck in works maybe 1% of the time so it really isn't an option. If you watch the Blackhawks, this is one thing they do well. Rather than forcing something into the zone, they'll send the puck back to the D and then try to set up a different push into the zone. Not only does this keep possession of the puck, but it also doesn't result in a bad turnover. So we need to use the D more and cycle the puck better in the neutral zone.ph33nix said:
You could apply what I said above in this post to this. If there is nothing down low, we should be working the puck back out to the D. From there we can either get some good shots from the point(which sets up great rebounds and deflections), or it'll lure some of their defense out and free up space down low. In either case, we need to cycle the puck with better efficiency(which I know is tough due to the shitty passing), but if we were playing proper positional hockey, this wouldn't be hard to do.ph33nix said:
This is another good point and goes with the stuff right above this. We get way too many people jammed up in one spot and this leads to a lot of easy breakouts for the other team. We need to spread out, which in turn will give us more passing options, spread the opponent's D out, and keep us in good position to pick up pucks the bounce away from the net. At any given time we should only have one person in front of the net. If laserbot is playing, it should be him. Ever since he switched to power forward he's been awesome in front of the net. The wing on the opposite side of where the puck is should creep in closer to the net to be in good position for a pass/rebound, but should not be playing in the crease.ph33nix said:
I'll try to find/make some diagrams during the Blackhawks/Sabres game tonight of where we should be in the zone.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
If we were awesomely coordinated and somebody hit the blue line the second it was dumped, we might be able to make it work. As it is though, there's just too much latency and defensive advantage with passing for it to work effectively.
Also:
This right here would win us games. Just shuffling it back and forth until something opens up.
Also:
This right here would win us games. Just shuffling it back and forth until something opens up.
SnakeswithLasers said:
I think there is one thing we could do to help this: COMMUNICATE
Don't get me wrong, I love calling Peterboy a rapist all game and joking about beating laserbot's girlfriend, but we need to talk to each other about what's going on in the game more. We can't see everything on the ice at the same time so we need to be more active in spreading information around.
This would also help immensely on getting the puck into the zone. If you're taking the puck up and are going to dump the puck in, let everyone know you're going to dump the puck in. Then the other forwards can be in position to bust across as soon as the puck is on its way in. This would also fix a lot of problems with offsides. If you don't have the puck, PARK ON THE LINE. Do not go across unless you're 110% sure the puck is in the zone. On the other hand, if you're the one carrying the puck in, you have to let the other people know when you take the puck across. Just something simple like "over" is enough to let the other forwards know that it's clear to enter the zone. Too often we have good rushes down the ice only to blow them with a dumb offsides penalty.
So I whipped up a couple quick diagrams(my art skills suck. Sue me.)
Offensive zone positioning:
Obviously everything in this would be opposite if the other wing has the puck.
In the pic, the LW has the puck along the boards and has several options:
-Take a shot, using the C as a screen/deflection/rebounder
-Take a shot to the far side of the net with the intent of setting up RW with a rebound
-Passing back to LD who then cycles either over to RD or back down to LW
-Passing across the ice to RW for a one-timer
If LW passes it back to LD, aside from two passing options mentioned already, he can take a shot on net. Red should position for a deflection/screen. RW should stay in position to get a rebound. LW should creep in a little, but not too far, for a rebound or to be in position for RW to pass across for a one-timer in case RW can't get a good shot off.
The Dman opposite of where the puck is should be positioned almost straight out from the net at the point. Puck side D should be covering the boards for a pass back. If the puck comes back to LD and he passes over to RD, then as the puck shifts to the right side of the ice, everyone should shift with it. RW goes out to the boards for a pass, C moves across the front of the net, LW creeps in, and LD covers the center point.
One other thing, if the LW doesn't have a play to C/RW and a pass back to LD is cut off, then the LW should drive behind the net to the opposite corner. C would shift over to LW's position and RW would center in front of the net. LD and RD should shift to that side accordingly with RD covering the right boards. If LW doesn't have a play then a pass back out to RD should be made so we can keep cycling.
If the LW stays behind the net then both D should cover their respective boards so a pass can be made out along the boards and not have it slip out of the offensive zone.
Breakout:
Once again, opposites apply if the puck is on the other side.
Now we've had a lot of success clearing the zone and getting offensive pressure using this already. It's easy to set up and execute so it fits our style perfectly.
Assuming the C wins the faceoff back to LD, RW should immediately take off for the far boards. LD should take the puck back and slap it around the boards to RW, making sure not to do it too quickly and overshoot RW. If the RW can get the puck and is clear, then he should take the puck and get it into the offensive zone. If the opponents defend it well and pinch RW along the boards, then the C and RD become vital here. RD needs to move into a position behind RW so he can either take a pass back from RW or defend if RW loses the puck. C needs to move up so he can be an outlet for RW if he is cut off. From there C can either keep the puck moving across the ice to LW or drop it back to LD, who should be covering the middle of the ice. LD can then pass back over to RD or up to the LW.
Offensive zone positioning:
Obviously everything in this would be opposite if the other wing has the puck.
In the pic, the LW has the puck along the boards and has several options:
-Take a shot, using the C as a screen/deflection/rebounder
-Take a shot to the far side of the net with the intent of setting up RW with a rebound
-Passing back to LD who then cycles either over to RD or back down to LW
-Passing across the ice to RW for a one-timer
If LW passes it back to LD, aside from two passing options mentioned already, he can take a shot on net. Red should position for a deflection/screen. RW should stay in position to get a rebound. LW should creep in a little, but not too far, for a rebound or to be in position for RW to pass across for a one-timer in case RW can't get a good shot off.
The Dman opposite of where the puck is should be positioned almost straight out from the net at the point. Puck side D should be covering the boards for a pass back. If the puck comes back to LD and he passes over to RD, then as the puck shifts to the right side of the ice, everyone should shift with it. RW goes out to the boards for a pass, C moves across the front of the net, LW creeps in, and LD covers the center point.
One other thing, if the LW doesn't have a play to C/RW and a pass back to LD is cut off, then the LW should drive behind the net to the opposite corner. C would shift over to LW's position and RW would center in front of the net. LD and RD should shift to that side accordingly with RD covering the right boards. If LW doesn't have a play then a pass back out to RD should be made so we can keep cycling.
If the LW stays behind the net then both D should cover their respective boards so a pass can be made out along the boards and not have it slip out of the offensive zone.
Breakout:
Once again, opposites apply if the puck is on the other side.
Now we've had a lot of success clearing the zone and getting offensive pressure using this already. It's easy to set up and execute so it fits our style perfectly.
Assuming the C wins the faceoff back to LD, RW should immediately take off for the far boards. LD should take the puck back and slap it around the boards to RW, making sure not to do it too quickly and overshoot RW. If the RW can get the puck and is clear, then he should take the puck and get it into the offensive zone. If the opponents defend it well and pinch RW along the boards, then the C and RD become vital here. RD needs to move into a position behind RW so he can either take a pass back from RW or defend if RW loses the puck. C needs to move up so he can be an outlet for RW if he is cut off. From there C can either keep the puck moving across the ice to LW or drop it back to LD, who should be covering the middle of the ice. LD can then pass back over to RD or up to the LW.
You have finals on a sunday?peterb0y said:
I'm gonna be gone from the 16th to ~31st. I'm gonna do what I can to try and get on at some point during that time. If not, 2 weeks without NHL is going to be brutal. I'm going to be rusty when I get back.ph33nix said:oh i will be. I'm done with my shit (sorta)how long are you gone?
I have finals most of monday but I'm off all day tuesday.peterb0y said:
Edit: Actually I have a lot of time between finals tomorrow. I should be on some during the early afternoon.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Marvie_3 said:
When did you get it? I'm not going back through this trainwreck of a thread to search.
Also, nice work last night, I'm on a bit of a scoring drought--no assists and only 2 or 3 goals in those five or six games, but we seemed to work a little better.
Edit: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18885520
This is how I picture Marvie in temperament. Except the mad racism.
It came out on Oct. 15th I think.SnakeswithLasers said:
We played much better last night. Outside of that glitch team and Sanjuro and I having a case of stupidpenaltyitis, there wasn't much to complain about. Other than getting jobbed on some of our scoring chances that is...SnakeswithLasers said:
I don't beat women either. I only joke about that. :lolSnakeswithLasers said: