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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs: 2017-2018 edition - Vote open until Oct 13th - Win Free RPGs
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
Lol
Taking twelve minutes to start a random encounter negates most of that
Seriously.
Thanks. These sorts of posts are interesting to me. Definitely going through a gaming resurgence atm myself.
Most of the ones i played are forgiving enough, even when you skill wrong. But i agree it can be overwhelming at first. Especially if you create your own party. The only game i played, where i thought you could really screw up whith wrong skill distribution, was Temple of Elemental Evil.
Apropos creating your whole party. I should replay the Icewind Dale games again. They had some of the best D&D combat scenarios. Kuldahar was also so atmospheric. Icewind Dale 2 i think looks even better than Baldur's Gate 2. And that's saying something.
AMEN BROTHER
As for the CRPG discussion... I am also on the jRPG train. I tried Dragon Age: Origins (finished the whole game when it came out on Xbox360) and... nope. I also tried Diablo 3 with my wife and it did not grab us. However, I do enjoy western sandboxy RPGs like Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout3 and Fallout4. I recently tried Fallout 1 and I was liking it, but, as a poster said above, it's easy to fuck up and have no sense of what to do. I stopped playing it but that one did leave an itch on me. I will def go back to it. The Fallout Universe certainly did help grabbing my attention. So, my 2 cents, try going after a franchise you are familiar with or a style/universe that interests you.
TL;DR: You are more likely to enjoy a game, no matter how hard or clunky, if it's about something that you like than playing a game for the sake of playing a game or getting into a genre.
My first RPGs were cRPGs. I've played through Baldur's Gate 1 and Neverwinter Nights + the expansions. Started Baldur's Gate 2 as well, but never made it beyond the tutorial dungeon (it was awesome though, but I got overwhelmed as soon as I got out into the city)
Right now I'm almost exclusively playing JRPGs, but I still like cRPGs, I just don't actively seek them out as much. Currently playing through Pillars, D:OS1 and Legends of Grimrock 2.
For me it's probably because cRPGs have too much choice.
I start up a game and am greeting with a crazily in-depth and overwhelming character creator before I even now how the game plays (and how I'd like to play it) and I don't want to make 'wrong' choices so I often end up making no choice. Basically choice paralysis, lol.
I prefer it when the game just throws me into it and let's me have a try with its system and stuffs and then gives me the option to customize my character/experience further.
Right now I'm almost exclusively playing JRPGs, but I still like cRPGs, I just don't actively seek them out as much. Currently playing through Pillars, D:OS1 and Legends of Grimrock 2.
For me it's probably because cRPGs have too much choice.
I start up a game and am greeting with a crazily in-depth and overwhelming character creator before I even now how the game plays (and how I'd like to play it) and I don't want to make 'wrong' choices so I often end up making no choice. Basically choice paralysis, lol.
I prefer it when the game just throws me into it and let's me have a try with its system and stuffs and then gives me the option to customize my character/experience further.
FF IX is on pace for top 30, very likely top 20. That's in no way, shape or form underrated. FF fans are spoiled rotten, y'all don't know what it's like to be a Dragon Quarter fan.
I'll only accept underrated whining for V. V is bae and unjustly slandered because muh story. Now that I think about it I should probably have included it in my honorable mentions.
I'll only accept underrated whining for V. V is bae and unjustly slandered because muh story. Now that I think about it I should probably have included it in my honorable mentions.
decoyplatypus
Member
I think this is a very reasonable complaint w/r/t BG2 and a number of classic CRPGs. Contemporary CRPG designers are sensitive to the problem and seem, on the whole, more cautious about front-loading choices before the player can have a reasonable idea of what those choices will mean for his/her experience. Pillars and D:OS2 both have full respec options. In addition, Divinity's character customization system is designed in such a way that one point in a given skill will rarely feel wasted, and Pillars generally tries to soften the effects of Level 1 choices compared to D&D (though Pillars 2 will be introducing a fair bit more complexity with subclasses and multiclassing).
Console DA:O and Diablo 3 are a really bad way to deternine if you like cRPGs. DA:O was really intended to be played on pc, where it's a completely different game and D3 is essentially a different genre. Definitely don't give up on cRPGs just because you don't like those two. If you liked the original Fallout there's a high chance you'll like other cRPGs. I love cRPGs and consider Fallout to be really hard to get into today, so if you could get into that, there's probably other cRPGs you'd like.
I think recommending something else that plays similarly is fine as long as it's elaborated and civil. We shouldn't just make ourselves good by patting ourselves on the back. Some of us haven't played every game on the list, so lesser known games would get lost in the shuffle to mainstream games (Terranigma is a good example.) People on the last page mentioned Path of Exile which is a great game if you liked Diablo. Path of Exile isn't in the top 50 and would otherwise not considered an essential RPG. Maybe we should make top 10 lists of subgenres?
Yeah, I think there's merit in discussing why specific games have performed significantly better or worse this year, it's fun and it leads to different topics that can also be fun. But aggressively whining about how one game is or isn't in the top 50 is so lame, you're basically telling voters they're wrong in liking something or not knowing about this other game that you like.
If some DQ game didn't make it then perhaps write your thoughts on the game and tell everyone what's so good about it so more will play it and hopefully it gets a better place next time?
Like, I think Strange Journey is Top 10 material just like Mother 3 is Top 5, but I'm not gonna pretend I'm surprised they didn't fare like that nor blame others for it, that's childish.
I think PS1 era mainline FF games are the complete opposite of what underrated RPG is supposed to be, but technically you could make a case on how VIII is the least appreciated among fan circles, I guess.
But yes, V is beautiful and I feel like a jackass for letting it out of my list
If some DQ game didn't make it then perhaps write your thoughts on the game and tell everyone what's so good about it so more will play it and hopefully it gets a better place next time?
Like, I think Strange Journey is Top 10 material just like Mother 3 is Top 5, but I'm not gonna pretend I'm surprised they didn't fare like that nor blame others for it, that's childish.
I think PS1 era mainline FF games are the complete opposite of what underrated RPG is supposed to be, but technically you could make a case on how VIII is the least appreciated among fan circles, I guess.
But yes, V is beautiful and I feel like a jackass for letting it out of my list
I think Pillars is just as complex as the games of old, in its skill system. But it provides better explanations too many of its mechanics. I love that it shows you what a specific skill does when you hover over it with the mouse cursor. Also that it gives lore explanations for items you cursor over. It's just wonderfull and every crpg should have it. It let's you also tweak so many of it's roleplaying aspects. Like do you want to hide all skill check qualifiers, to make it feel more oldshool. I hope other games take notice of this. So that everyone can tweak their game to their liking.
Parmadillo Marshmallow
Member
My first RPG was the original Bards Tale on a 286 PC with a monochrome green monitor. Basically like this but all the white was green:
I believe that this is true, at least at launch (I haven't played the post-Awakenings version).
PC was designed around RTwP gameplay (with plenty of ability hotkeys), while the console version only had the third person action set up. I don't know if the individual enemies are harder on PC, but I am pretty sure that there are more enemies in an encounter. Friendly fire is also on by default. The launch version of DA:O was fairly challenging, even on the standard difficulty.
Huh, interesting about the number of enemies. Though I'm almost positive the console version allowed you to pause combat and issue out commands. Granted, I haven't played it since the year it came out and might be misremembering a bit
Well i would guess, a remaster gets overwhelmingly bought by people who already played and enjoyed it.
So it wouldn't necessarily increase the number of people, who would vote for it.
I also need to play Dragon Quarter, does anyone know if it's on PSN?
As for previous BoF games, i don't think they'll be required, but i would still recommend them. BoF1 is pretty basic and could be skipped, but BoF2 and 3 are really good. BoF2 even has spells interact with the environment (use a Fire spell during a battle in a forest and the trees will catch on fire, i believe the spell does more damage too) and this was during the SNES era!
I've heard good things about 4, but when i tried to play it i had to stop after about 10 minutes. The pixelated graphics were making my eyes bleed. I will never understand why they seemed to take a step backward in graphics quality from 3 to 4.
I ain't even mad watching some posters in this thread get so salty about VIII, even going as far as to make up that it's placement is from underrated when it didn't even qualify LOL y'all need to accept the fact that VIII is popular no matter how much you want to dig your head in the sand.
I will say I think the quote used for VIII isn't a very good one. It doesn't really go over the fact the game has a lot of side quests, a soundtrack full of variety, FMV's tied into gameplay, extensive world building throughout the game and gorgeous art and character design. There's also the fact the game is incredibly ambitious. Even the fact it's mentioning the ridiculous Squall is dead theory when it's a disputed and stupid one is not really great. I'm sure there was way better quotes to have been used like from Fiveside who wrote a great paragraph about VIII. I just don't think the quote chosen gives any sense of what kind of game VIII is.
I will say I think the quote used for VIII isn't a very good one. It doesn't really go over the fact the game has a lot of side quests, a soundtrack full of variety, FMV's tied into gameplay, extensive world building throughout the game and gorgeous art and character design. There's also the fact the game is incredibly ambitious. Even the fact it's mentioning the ridiculous Squall is dead theory when it's a disputed and stupid one is not really great. I'm sure there was way better quotes to have been used like from Fiveside who wrote a great paragraph about VIII. I just don't think the quote chosen gives any sense of what kind of game VIII is.
Most normal posters would expect this but some people are just embarrassing about their video game dislikes and have to make sure they shit up threads because a game they dislike is liked by people.
I must have forgotten to turn a layer off. I will fix that when I update next.
Rad Shadow
Banned
I'm not saying ff8 is a bad game...
All I'm saying is that if I had a top 400 rpg list, ff8 wouldn't make the cut!
All I'm saying is that if I had a top 400 rpg list, ff8 wouldn't make the cut!
It's in my bottom 3rd of my FFs. I genuinely don't get the love for it (despite thinking it's okay)
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
We aren't annoyed (let alone surprised) that people like a game we don't, but this is a list/poll thread, so naturally, when it takes the spot of games we feel are more deserving, we might voice our annoyances. Opinions and all that. But sure, that's a terrible thing to say and going "neener neener lol y'all salty lol", on the other hand, is the height of maturity.
We did it, kids.WOW, highest FFVIII's ever been! Awesome, really happy with the result for it.
Mother 3 dropping is unfortunate, but I'm not sure we can expect anything else until wheneverit comes to the West...if ever...
EDIT: FF8gaf
EDIT2: Nier drop is kind of surprising given the exposure Automata gave the series...I guess a lot of people switched their votes over to Automata instead?
There are 4 more FF titles and Tactics coming up. I think that 4-10, 12, and tactics all end up in the top 100 most years. 90s and 00s era Final Fantasy is popular.
Edit: when the Top 50 is up, I will post what the list looks like limited to a single entry per series.
*Comes into list/poll thread
*Complains about people commenting on said list/poll
Melchiah
Member
Except FFVIII and the rest in the series were excluded from being underrated. Good to see it getting the recognition nonetheless.
YankeeDonB
Member
I agree it would be sad if the thread became just a parade of hate against FF8 (albeit LESS sad than if the thread became a parade of hate against almost any other game on the list =P ).
However, I think one could express genuine surprise at how high 8 has climbed on this list compared to prior years w/out it being taken as empty condemnation toward any who like the game.
Like, what happened since the last thread to revive interest in 8? XII got the remaster (and weirdly fell, despite the quality of the remaster). 7 is getting remade. XV sucked up a lot of oxygen. But 8 hasn't seemed to be getting a lot of attention. I know, like all FFs, it's always had its staunch fans, and I respect them. But is its fan base growing? And if so, why would such a janky, counter-intuitive, currently inaccessible game be gaining momentum?
However, I think one could express genuine surprise at how high 8 has climbed on this list compared to prior years w/out it being taken as empty condemnation toward any who like the game.
Like, what happened since the last thread to revive interest in 8? XII got the remaster (and weirdly fell, despite the quality of the remaster). 7 is getting remade. XV sucked up a lot of oxygen. But 8 hasn't seemed to be getting a lot of attention. I know, like all FFs, it's always had its staunch fans, and I respect them. But is its fan base growing? And if so, why would such a janky, counter-intuitive, currently inaccessible game be gaining momentum?
The issue is that this is a thread to get people to try particular games and if your contribution is to shit post about people liking a game you don't and refuse to listen to why people like that game it doesn't add anything to this thread.*Comes into list/poll thread
*Complains about people commenting on said list/poll
Like whether or not you agree or disagree with certain positions how can anyone actually say they're shocked VIII is popular? It's an extremely loved game that ALSO has it's share of people that dislike or don't care about it. There's no evidence it's never been popular and just because people are vocal about their hatred online doesn't change the fact it's always been a popular title.
See now this is totally fair and absolutely worth discussing especially since it accommodates both groups that like or dislike VIII.
My issue is people questioning why others like VIII when there is paragraphs for why they do.
This is a poll of 230 votes. I'd say anything happens out of the top 10 is within margin of error and not really worth analyzing. Your favorite game makes it? It's good luck. Doesn't make it? It's bad luck.
Personally, I don't like FFVIII.
My point on the last page was that personally, I find it more constructive to bring up the games you feel are underappreciated than it is to decry other people's taste. Yes, they get at the same thing: both are comments that point to "I wish this list was different and people should play other RPGs." One, however, encourages people to actually play the games you want them to play. The other tends towards just encouraging "shit you all have bad taste" and "why so salty" conversations. If you want elevated discussion, draw it out of people.
And I'm not saying either a) that I'm not tempted to take potshots at GAF's taste nor that b) I haven't already. Just on the other page I pretty heavily suggested that I take issue with GAF's taste in FE. Or I have plenty of bratty comments about Dragon Quest.
But, in general, I think trying to draw out other peoples' opinions about games and going into my own in detail, rather than just shutting conversations down into "that game is bad, why do you like it GAF? *facepalm*" is more rewarding and leads to a better discussion and better thread.
I agree, and expected them all in the top 100. There's just something about FFVIII that isn't fun for me and I've tried numerous times to get into it. I'd love it if it got a 5X speed remaster for PS4 like VII, IX, X and XII. It might totally increase my enjoyment.
But there's a difference between discussing games you don't like politely and just slamming other people's votes lol. Otherwise I could just come and say every list is shit unless it's exactly like mine and it'd be considered worthy discussion? Come on.
I don't even like FF8 myself! But in an essentials thread I think it should be encouraged to try to share your thoughts on games you feel more people should try rather than downplay others' preferences.
Not to mention the users who participate in each iteration of the thread must differ to an extent, and there's always new people doing it for the first time too.
I think it's worth commenting to an extent, but yeah nothing too surprising in most cases, it's how these things work.
Things ramp up as we move up the list
The point difference between #20 and #30 is about the same as the difference between #30 and #60, and twice the difference between #60 and #100.
#1 got close to 3x as many votes as #20.
That's interesting that you also started playing JRPGs in earnest later in your life. I wonder how tastes are affected when you play them as an adult vs. when they're holdovers from childhood.
I had a SNES and N64 but didn't play a single RPG on either. My first RPG was actually on the PS1. It was...Alundra 2. My second was Brave Fencer Musashi though, which I remember much more fondly. Towards the tail end of the 90s I played Pokemon a lot.
Had a Sega Nomad at one point but didn't play any RPGs on there either. Missed out on Phantasy Star and Shining.
Also I probably could've minored in Final Fantasy in college if I'd logged the hours lol.
Dragon Quarter and Panzer Dragoon Saga were both on my Top 5 JRPGs...I feel your pain Mr. Aznable.
I think FFV has the strongest gameplay of the classic FFs. If I'm being honest, I don't generally play the FFs for the moment-to-moment gameplay though. Otherwise I would have it ranked higher.
The FF with my favorite gameplay is actually Lightning Returns. Love that battle system and some of the other interesting mechanics in that game. Probably the most challenging game in the series too, which is great because a lot of them are a bit of a cakewalk.
Yes I am an FFVIII and Lightning Returns fan. I am the monster hiding under the FF fandom's bed
My first RPG was the original Bards Tale on a 286 PC with a monochrome green monitor. Basically like this but all the white was green:
Those character names lol. 1980s confirmed.
I believe it is on the Japanese PSN but unfortunately never came over to the West. I'll double check when I get back to the house though, I randomly have my PS3 hooked up at the moment to play Hard Corps Uprising.
If there's still a question of whether or not the game made the list at this point, then I think it's likely that it didn't. We're close to reaching the point where it'll just be the usual suspects. The only question will be how they rank this year.
Unless it's something that came out recently, in which case it's impossible to say since there's no prior data to go off.
EDIT: Just realized Panzer Dragoon Saga is nowhere to be seen, even on the #51-70, unless I accidentally skimmed over it. Bummer, but expected.
IX's ended up being passable, but that mandatory game of it really blindsided me because I had been ignoring it, just like I ignored Triple Triad in VIII, Golden Saucer in VII, the Coliseum in VI, etc. Actually took me about an hour to win, was not a highlight of the game.
Incendiary
Banned
*Comes into list/poll thread
*Complains about people commenting on said list/poll
I don't know about everyone else, but I treat this particular thread a lot different than say the GAF GOTY thread. This one is more informative and is basically supposed to be a guide for people who haven't played RPGs and are looking to get into them, or fans of RPGs who are looking for new titles they haven't explored yet. My GAF GOTY list is just my ten favorite games of the year. My Essential RPG list is more about what I would introduce to new people who know nothing about RPGs or what I consider good starting points for the genre. If you asked me what my top 10 favorite RPG list was, it might have a few similarities but it would probably end up very different from what I shared here.
So when people come in here just to shit on games that show up in the list when a lot of effort goes into making the list and giving a wealth of information, it kind of ruins what the thread is supposed to be about. Final Fantasy games may be super mainstream and not the best RPGs in the world, but they are very accessible to people new to the genre.
Gunblades son
Yes I am an FFVIII and Lightning Returns fan. I am the monster hiding under the FF fandom's bed
Know, friend, that you are not alone! LR got one of my honorable mention for its gameplay alone (as the rest of the game is hot garbage), and I'm usually more a story/world building guy.
YankeeDonB
Member
It's not a huge sample, but I'm not sure apparently large trends are therefore meaningless. Maybe this year, by chance, a high relative proportion of people interested in 8 happened to participate. Or maybe some subset of FF fans' views on 8 have shifted over the last few years. I don't see that one possibility is obviously more parsimonious than the rest.
Ah, the PBJ of RPGs weaponry
Never played Alundra 2, just the original.
My first RPG experiences are Mystic Quest, SMRPG, FFVII, and Final Fantasy Tactics.
I played the first of those two with my sister as a child (she's almost my same age so we did a lot of things together). We beat MQ and got to the boss of SMRPG.
I came to FFVII through my brother playing FFVIII. VIII was his Final Fantasy experience, so VII was going to be the one I tried instead. I played it over several years, beating it in 2001 or so.
I played a lot of Final Fantasy Tactics in that time period too, slightly off-set from FFVII. I got to the final dungeon thing but never actually beat it (and since then when I replayed it I got stuck on trying to get the Genji gear)
Pokemon Blue and Gold showed up around the year 2000 for me, but those are sort of a different thing for me.
So those are the core RPGs of my first 10 years or so on this planet. I had a bit of a wider awareness of the genre than this demonstrates and would dip my toes into other Square releases on PSX, like the CT or FF re-releases on the platform or Xenogears and I had a vibrant mental life surrounding JRPG. At one point I had something like 20 hypothetical RPGs my sister and I were working on with pencil and paper.
(These dwindled in number and became more thought-out and more dear to me over time).
I liked other games. aLttP was my original template for what a game should and could be, but JRPG caught my creative fancy and imagination to a greater degree than anything else.
...
Throughout my teenage years I worked on various Final Fantasy and Square titles for the PSX, played DQVIII, got into Fire Emblem, played the BioWare OG Xbox games, and got into Morrowind and Oblivion.
In college, I didn't game as much and mostly just kept up with what Nintendo was doing on the Wii and played old strategy and simulation games on the PC.
One of the things I did do though, was play the DS DQ games as they came out. I also finally got around to FFVI and the OG FF some summer.
In the end though, continuing this venture through this past year, I did better by DQ than I've done by Final Fantasy as I tended more towards completion than I had in my teen years.
In my last years of college, I got into TOR and actually had a good guild experience there but that petered out and died as the game transformed its priorities and values.
...
The 2015 Federation Force debacle broke the diminished, intensely Nintendo dominated period of my gaming life, brought me to the internet, and eventually GAF and GAF convinced me to try TMS#FE despite my biases and from there to a crazy year of playing a shit ton of Atlus, which has in turn made me try other GAF favorites, like Falcom.
My first RPG experiences are Mystic Quest, SMRPG, FFVII, and Final Fantasy Tactics.
I played the first of those two with my sister as a child (she's almost my same age so we did a lot of things together). We beat MQ and got to the boss of SMRPG.
I came to FFVII through my brother playing FFVIII. VIII was his Final Fantasy experience, so VII was going to be the one I tried instead. I played it over several years, beating it in 2001 or so.
I played a lot of Final Fantasy Tactics in that time period too, slightly off-set from FFVII. I got to the final dungeon thing but never actually beat it (and since then when I replayed it I got stuck on trying to get the Genji gear
)Pokemon Blue and Gold showed up around the year 2000 for me, but those are sort of a different thing for me.
So those are the core RPGs of my first 10 years or so on this planet. I had a bit of a wider awareness of the genre than this demonstrates and would dip my toes into other Square releases on PSX, like the CT or FF re-releases on the platform or Xenogears and I had a vibrant mental life surrounding JRPG. At one point I had something like 20 hypothetical RPGs my sister and I were working on with pencil and paper.
(These dwindled in number and became more thought-out and more dear to me over time).
I liked other games. aLttP was my original template for what a game should and could be, but JRPG caught my creative fancy and imagination to a greater degree than anything else.
...
Throughout my teenage years I worked on various Final Fantasy and Square titles for the PSX, played DQVIII, got into Fire Emblem, played the BioWare OG Xbox games, and got into Morrowind and Oblivion.
In college, I didn't game as much and mostly just kept up with what Nintendo was doing on the Wii and played old strategy and simulation games on the PC.
One of the things I did do though, was play the DS DQ games as they came out. I also finally got around to FFVI and the OG FF some summer.
In the end though, continuing this venture through this past year, I did better by DQ than I've done by Final Fantasy as I tended more towards completion than I had in my teen years.
In my last years of college, I got into TOR and actually had a good guild experience there but that petered out and died as the game transformed its priorities and values.
...
The 2015 Federation Force debacle broke the diminished, intensely Nintendo dominated period of my gaming life, brought me to the internet, and eventually GAF and GAF convinced me to try TMS#FE despite my biases and from there to a crazy year of playing a shit ton of Atlus, which has in turn made me try other GAF favorites, like Falcom.
My first experience with RPGs was watching my dad play them on the PC when I was very young. I think the first RPG I played myself was the original Diablo. Though I remember the first RPG I really got into was Might & Magic VI, and I spent many many hours on that game. As well as VII and VIII. I was introduced to JRPGs when I got a PS1 and played games like FFVII, Wild Arms, Parasite Eve, Legend of Dragoon, and so on.
What a wonderful genre.
What a wonderful genre.