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NEOGAF's Official Music Production Thread: calling all producers

lazygecko

Member
NI uses a Service Center program for updating and registering all their products. It's annoying but at least it's far from as obnoxious as software requiring USB devices even for their free stuff, like Waves does.
 

Accoun

Member
at least it's far from as obnoxious as software requiring USB devices even for their free stuff, like Waves does.

Wait, what? I got that OneKnob Pumper from the black friday deal but haven't tried it yet. Are you saying it requires something else? Why the fuck I haven't heard anyone say anything about it before?
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I thought the Waves had a dongle-less option since forever.

I'm a huge Native Instruments fan. Not only is their authorization software extremely unintrusive (I compare it to Steam a lot) and not limit you to X amount of installs, Kontakt is currently home to the vast majority of my sample libraries, many of which similarly activate via NI Service Center despite being 3rd party.

p.s. SONAR user here, will vouch for it being fully featured and very reasonably priced.
 

lazygecko

Member
The last time I tried getting some free promotional stuff from Waves, I had to go through this really convoluted download/install process, and in the end it required me to use a USB memory stick as a sort of de-facto dongle to activate the plugin. I didn't have one handy at the time, so I just said fuck it.

NI are pretty weird at times too. I purchased Session Horns from them, then downloaded an installer that was in fact a downloader client, which downloaded the files, then for some reason packed them into a .iso image, then installed drivers for a virtual disc drive, mounted the .iso into it, and then launched the real installer from that.

professor_lucifer_butoep24.gif
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Heh. For me personally over the course of a decade I've decided to give the middle finger to dongles. If your product requires me to carry something around to use, I'm just not going to use your product. Fortunately I've still been able to get by.

Only other real peeve I've had is when Addictive Drums installer helpfully decided to install itself to my OS drive (tiny SSD) with no readily accessible alternate means to get it installed on my workhorse HDD like everything else. Had a good rage at their tech support on that one.

Otherwise, I've had no real issues with DRM as far as music production stuff goes. Recently reinstalled SONAR, all my plugins and ~1TB of sample libraries on a fresh Windows 7 install, too.
 
Ok gaf, I've been self conscious about this for awhile but I think I'm ready. My style is mainly metal and I've got a couple of songs recorded and would like some constructive criticism, sonically speaking. I wrote, played and recorded all guitars and bass as well as co-wrote digidrums with a drummer (I don't have access to fully mic'd drums). I produced this and 3 other songs for an EP during the spring of 2013. It was my degree project to graduate for e-media but I have recently gone back to clean up my mixes a little. I would appreciate any further advice.

This is the first track off my EP called "Cold War," it is primarily thrashy in style.
https://soundcloud.com/dicklong/cold-war

PS my artist name is Dick Long
 

Ateron

Member
Don't feel comfortable enough in making a thread just to ask a question, since it would be my first, so I think this would be the best place to put it, if anyone can help me I would be so appreciated..

I've been making hip hop for 10 years, and while I don't think my shit is terrible, it could get better on the production side. I've worked with some very talented producers, and have begun doing my own instrumentals for the past 2 years, many of them using samples from videogames :)

My main problem is when it comes to recording. I always get a slight "bzzzzz" sound from my vocals, no matter the mic or pc. Recently I've bought an audio interface (Line-6 UX1) and a mic (Shure Sm 57) which sounds nice, but I still get that "static" sound. When I'm mixing things it's less perceptible but I could do without it, or at least, less of it.

I've been looking to buy a new laptop. I know Macs are the best for audiovisual production, most people say their components are better "grounded" so it has reduced noise, but I don't exactly want one. Fortunately it's not a matter of $, but I can't get around the OS, I've been working for so long with windows and I can't adapt overnight. I tried and it was hard. A lot of times I knew what I wanted but couldn't get around it. Same with using other DAWs. I dabble with abbleton every now and then, but my roots are FL studio and Cool Edit for recording, as that's what I'm most used to. I'm trying to learn the quirks of other programs, though.

Now, Macs..even though they're probably the best in the field, I think they are a tiny bit overpriced (that doesn't take away the fact that they are amazing though) so it's another point against me wanting to get one.

SO...I was looking for some opinions on what kind of laptop I should get. My main priority is to get something that has the least amount of static noise possible. I currently use my gf's HP. It handles most vsts and daws easily but produces quite a bit of static noise. People have mentioned Lenovos are almost as good as macs, but they aren't easy to find here in Portugal, and there's the problem with the keyboards that have to be replaced. I don't want to break the bank since it's only for music production so I would be willing to go up to 750-800 euros on a laptop. Anybody here got any recommendations or advice? Thanks in advance


Sorry for the wall of text guys x/
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Also I feel it's my responsibility to pipe up about the OSX/mac branding horse-shit. I have nothing against the platform, and if you wanna use e.g. Logic (that is only available on OSX), there's nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with Windows/PC either as far as DAW hijinks go, and I'm totally with you that you should go with what you're most familiar/comfortable with.

I suffered through Berklee where they force a macbook and Pro Tools down your throat, finished my music production and engineering degree, and am currently freelancing in an environment where every studio has Pro Tools running on a mac.

And I'm doing so with my two Windows desktops and a Windows 8.1 laptop with a MOTU 828 for interfacing with studio hardware, running a completely different DAW (SONAR). Both for my own personal projects and my commercial work with e.g. Bandai Namco and Square Enix.

Don't let people tell you what you can or cannot use.
 

Ateron

Member
I'll try to find something to show it, but it's a humming noise, a lot more noticeable when recording on a laptop, rather than a desktop pc. I still prefer the laptop cause it's portable and that comes in handy, but I prefer the windows environment personally. Like Falk said, a lot of people only care about macs but I feel it's a bit more complicated than it should be. Might be my fault but I prefer to work in conditions I'm accustomed to.

I thought that running the mic with xlr cables through the UX1 would cut down the "static" but it only lessens it a bit. Strangely enough, a friend of mine has an old desktop pc that has practically zero static when recording. It's a shame that it can't run abbleton properly, but I find it curious that it doesn't have that flaw. But his old laptop does have it..
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Firstly, like I said I would suggest recording an audio example, since you used both "humming" and "static" which are technically two completely different issues that sound different. Helps with diagnosis

That aside, you'd probably want to figure out what exactly is causing it before you dump money. Is it the interface? Components on the laptop? Possibly the mics themselves? Swapping out stuff in the chain to see how it affects the issue one by one and working via process of elimination would likely give you answers.

(Once, I had a really shitty cable picking up radio frequencies and it was honest-to-God the last thing we checked lol)
 

rashbeep

Banned
If you're getting hum or noise it's probably the preamp. Try using a pre with more headroom and a better mic. If your room isn't treated try the shure sm7b
 
so uh, how easy is it to get material on to itunes? it doesn't seem all that easy. anyone had experience with other monetisation methods? i currently use bandcamp and soundcloud but haven't had any major releases so far but i have a soundtrack ep due out in january and would like some money making options. is spotify a viability for an indie?
 

Xrenity

Member
so uh, how easy is it to get material on to itunes? it doesn't seem all that easy. anyone had experience with other monetisation methods? i currently use bandcamp and soundcloud but haven't had any major releases so far but i have a soundtrack ep due out in january and would like some money making options. is spotify a viability for an indie?
I use http://distrokid.com/, after a tip from another NeoGAF member. It's fantastic, simple, and cheap.
 
I find myself unconvinced that there are things out there in a similar vein and on par with or exceeding Dollar Power when it comes to vocal synth/total synth doings---this crazy Currah uSpeech thing or otherwise. Are there comparable projects/groups/etc actually out there for other hardware and whatnot? I know Plogue has that new vintage vocal synth program coming that is meant to grow as time rolls on, as well as FM Drive's undocumented capabilities along those lines---but otherwise I got nothing.

I mean, I know the ZX Spectrum was quite an odd thing home to many esoteric recesses, but good lord this track!

It is just too damn good even if it feels like musically and lyrically they were hitting something a wall in terms of taking it even further as is often the case with a great many pieces....though unlike most of those other cases, I'm not aware of any remixes or covers further attacking at it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mobOfy1uf2g
 

Accoun

Member
Looks like Camel Audio closed shop. Their Twitter is private, so dunno what is actually happening. After logging in there's a simple message:
January 8, 2015

We would like to thank you for the support we’ve received over the years in our efforts to create instruments and effects plug-ins and sound libraries.

Camel Audio’s plug-ins, Alchemy Mobile IAPs and sound libraries are no longer available for purchase. We will continue to provide downloads of your previous purchases and email support until July 7, 2015. We recommend you download all of your purchases and back them up so that you can continue to use them (Instructions: How to Download and Backup Your Products).

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2015/01/plug-maker-camel-audio-deceased-download-software-now

Not cool, especially since it's so sudden.
 

Accoun

Member
Sudden announcement but apart from doing small releases to keep up with OS changes they've really been resting on their laurels for years.

Someone in the comments says that they were making Alchemy 2 or something like that? Not sure, as I don't follow payware myself...

[EDIT]
Then again, someone on Propellerheads forums says Camel Audio was in buyout talks with at least Apple. Not sure why Ableton is also mentioned (unless were they interested as well or something) but Apple seems like a rather grim option for me (since it would mean limiting it to OSX).
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Stuff like that happens all the time. Nine Volt Audio went belly-up a year after a very well-written article about sample libraries and piracy. To be fair, they also did go out with a bang, running a group buy for a ridiculous amount of content for a low price. You can't get their stuff legally anymore though.

since this is GAF are we gonna have "that bright digital future" drive-by posts?
 

BowieZ

Banned
So I have 10k in the bank. I live in Australia. My 2010 MacBook Pro has carked it. And I want to get serious about music production again.

Anyone have any suggestions on what rig to get? I'm thinking staying Apple and ProTools, but don't know about what type of computer (laptop? desktop?), never owned monitor speakers, and currently don't have access to any plugins as I was using a licence stick for Nexus (and ProTools) belonging to a local record studio (I don't suppose it'll work with a new set-up?). I'm kinda over Nexus anyway, at least, the synthy techno sample packs I had were 98% unappealing to me anyway. I used to have Kontakt with some VSL synths, but I lost $2k worth of samples on a hard drive in a flood from 4 years ago :( I should have backed it up!
 

Falk

that puzzling face
$10k should get you really far. I know this sounds Captain Obvious (and for that I apologize) but desktop vs laptop really depends on what you're planning to do. Do you move around a lot? are you planning to do live shows?

If OSX/PT jived with you there's absolutely no reason to switch, unless there's something you religiously detest in either or something. Also are you more of a sample library or synth person?
 

BowieZ

Banned
$10k should get you really far. I know this sounds Captain Obvious (and for that I apologize) but desktop vs laptop really depends on what you're planning to do. Do you move around a lot? are you planning to do live shows?

If OSX/PT jived with you there's absolutely no reason to switch, unless there's something you religiously detest in either or something. Also are you more of a sample library or synth person?
Obvious I know; I suppose laptop since I could just plug it in at my desk anyway. But I like the idea of a massive Mac screen.

And I always split between samples (mainly drumkit which I loaded into Guru plugin, and formerly had heaps of orchestral samples loaded into Kontakt) and synths (Nexus). Really I would just love to alternate between writing indiepop songs, video game music, and orchestral pieces.

PS might as well post some unfinished ideas from a while ago, as it's more or less my most recent sound, and I won't be going back to any old stuff now.

The Light: https://m.soundcloud.com/bowiez/thelight

Cut: https://m.soundcloud.com/bowiez/cut -- my hilariously awful temp demo vocals *cringe* oh god I haven't listened to this for a while

Giant Leap: https://m.soundcloud.com/bowiez/giant-leap-1 *good I guess but a bit cliche
 

Falk

that puzzling face
For what it's worth the retina MBPs can output higher than 1080p via Thunderbolt with an adapter to e.g. Displayport, so you technically could still have a huge screen to work on. (This was as of last year, haven't personally kept very recently up to date on OSX happenings myself)

Orchestral VSTs, Cine____ have become pretty popular in the video game circle recently. CineBrass and CinePerc are arguably best-in-class in getting 'that kind of sound' nowadays (I used both extensively last year). CineStrings is lush and thick, although not very agile so while pads and spiccato runs sound really good, legato melodic licks are a little sluggish. CineWinds is what I feel is the weak link at the moment. They sound good, but only if you use them for what they were recorded for, which can be quite limiting in a lot of cases. I bring it up because CineSamples run an extremely good business model I can totally get behind (they pay performers/etc that recorded per unit sold which I really respect) and they have pretty sick bundles/deals all year round, so it's always worth keeping an eye on.

Symphobia 1/2 are also pretty good value for money if you plan on sticking in some orchestral sweeteners here and there in other genres rather than having an orchestral piece on its own/for its own sake.
 
So I have 10k in the bank. I live in Australia. My 2010 MacBook Pro has carked it. And I want to get serious about music production again.

Anyone have any suggestions on what rig to get? I'm thinking staying Apple and ProTools, but don't know about what type of computer (laptop? desktop?), never owned monitor speakers, and currently don't have access to any plugins as I was using a licence stick for Nexus (and ProTools) belonging to a local record studio (I don't suppose it'll work with a new set-up?). I'm kinda over Nexus anyway, at least, the synthy techno sample packs I had were 98% unappealing to me anyway. I used to have Kontakt with some VSL synths, but I lost $2k worth of samples on a hard drive in a flood from 4 years ago :( I should have backed it up!

You need many IO options? I'd go;
iMac
Lynx Aurora or UA Quad
A decent mic (sm7s are cheap and flexible)
LogicPro X
Then buy some nice instruments or synths or whatever.
 

Fusebox

Banned
So I have 10k in the bank. I live in Australia. My 2010 MacBook Pro has carked it. And I want to get serious about music production again.

Anyone have any suggestions on what rig to get? I'm thinking staying Apple and ProTools, but don't know about what type of computer (laptop? desktop?), never owned monitor speakers, and currently don't have access to any plugins as I was using a licence stick for Nexus (and ProTools) belonging to a local record studio (I don't suppose it'll work with a new set-up?). I'm kinda over Nexus anyway, at least, the synthy techno sample packs I had were 98% unappealing to me anyway. I used to have Kontakt with some VSL synths, but I lost $2k worth of samples on a hard drive in a flood from 4 years ago :( I should have backed it up!

Maybe you should tell us what kind of music you want to make before someone recommends you a $9,999 accordion.

Really I would just love to alternate between writing indiepop songs, video game music, and orchestral pieces.

Nvm, just saw this. NI Komplete and Omnisphere would be a killer combo for you imo. But Pro Tools?

Oh and does anyone have a copy of Camel Crusher for Mac?

Yeah, but it's a free app. Have CamelAudio already pulled the public download page?
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Nvm, just saw this. NI Komplete and Omnisphere would be a killer combo for you imo. But Pro Tools?

If it works, it works. Pro Tools still lags behind the other major DAWs for MIDI/sequencing implementation/convenience/etc. but if you're familiar with it there's really no reason to switch at this point.

My big beef with Pro Tools was/still is the lack of offline bouncing pre-11. While 11 does address that, most big studios refuse to upgrade due to plugin compatibility, so you essentially have to go in knowing you either live with realtime bouncing or bend over backwards with the ridiculously obtuse workarounds to save time (what an irony)

(Personally I'd never be caught dead using Pro Tools myself if I can help it, but I've worked with enough people on enough different methodologies to try to force someone to use something other than what they're comfortable with)
 

lazygecko

Member
You can kind of tell what each DAW is good at based on their history. Pro Tools started out purely for recording and editing audio tracks, and that's what it excels at over the others IMO. But after working with MIDI-heavy stuff in Pro Tools I've encountered all sorts of weird bugs and glitches.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Hahahah I get the feeling it runs deeper than that. Pro Tools targeted its user base at the professional recording industry, meaning it had to do what a tape deck did to convince people to switch over from tape. Anything more was gravy.

Case in point: "Offline bouncing? Who needs that? You can't go faster than real time transferring reel-to-reel"

Not to mention the hilariously obtuse (by today's standards) way of going about internal buses, inputs and outputs, which actually makes more sense to people used to patch bays and shit compared to the more... magical solutions that e.g. Digital Performer, Cubase or SONAR have.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Maybe you should tell us what kind of music you want to make before someone recommends you a $9,999 accordion.
aww I was hoping to write mainly French street music

Great suggestions guys, thanks so much. Great starting point, I'll do some more research and let you know what I ended up with.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I have a question for people here. As a fledgling producer, is it normal to feel an immense amount of self-consciousness of just the way you produce music? I've taken a pretty comprehensive audio engineering course in the past so I feel like I have experience to a degree, and I feel like I've managed to churn out a decent tune or so in the past (I've never really restricted myself genre-wise but mostly find myself generally do a mix of alternative and electronic music, mostly video game influenced stuff), but sometimes I get the sense that the reason I don't partake that much in music production communities is due to me feeling like I take the easy route out in music making by not being all too invested in the technicalities and just focusing on making music sound good.

I want to eventually be able to take this stuff seriously as I feel like it's something I enjoy doing. My rig used to just be a laptop with FL Studio + some stellar VSTs, and I've been slowly expanding it with an AudioBox, a studio mic and a guitar. It's just that what's been working with me for quite some time, even though I generally like the sound of things, has started to feel like it's something a bit too easy and I feel like I need to start getting extensive and consider the means of how to achieve that.
 
I have a question for people here. As a fledgling producer, is it normal to feel an immense amount of self-consciousness of just the way you produce music? I've taken a pretty comprehensive audio engineering course in the past so I feel like I have experience to a degree, and I feel like I've managed to churn out a decent tune or so in the past (I've never really restricted myself genre-wise but mostly find myself generally do a mix of alternative and electronic music, mostly video game influenced stuff), but sometimes I get the sense that the reason I don't partake that much in music production communities is due to me feeling like I take the easy route out in music making by not being all too invested in the technicalities and just focusing on making music sound good.

I want to eventually be able to take this stuff seriously as I feel like it's something I enjoy doing. My rig used to just be a laptop with FL Studio + some stellar VSTs, and I've been slowly expanding it with an AudioBox, a studio mic and a guitar. It's just that what's been working with me for quite some time, even though I generally like the sound of things, has started to feel like it's something a bit too easy and I feel like I need to start getting extensive and consider the means of how to achieve that.

Music production doesn't need to be an overly complex or technical adventure in order to feel gratified by what you output.

I've used FL almost exclusively since 2000-2001 and have done production for major artists. Along the way I added what was necessary. Vsts, Plugins, ETC. I never felt the need to go out and acquire equipment for example, just to feel more validated.

Honestly what's more important than the hardware and technology is the implementation of what you have into your music. I don't know what your experience or skill level is, but things like automation (achieved in almost any DAW out there) are important and can turn what was a bland production into a very interesting one. Your questions is a bit abstract so forgive me if I'm not on the right track.

The quality of your output, and your personal satisfaction is what matters. When you can take your track and put it next to something that has a major release and (honestly!) feel like it belongs or could compete in that safe space, the technical aspects or what you used to achieve your sound are irrelevant. Being technically competent is great, and is necessary, but there's a lot of technically competent producers that make subpar music.


I don't use some of the stuff discussed here because it's not important. Production has evolved. Hits are made in airports, at hotels, bedrooms, etc. A good Daw, Midi controller and audio interface w/ great vsts will take you a long way. It can absolutely be more complex than that (and there's great hardware available), but there's no need to feel bad that it isnt.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Ok gaf, I've been self conscious about this for awhile but I think I'm ready. My style is mainly metal and I've got a couple of songs recorded and would like some constructive criticism, sonically speaking. I wrote, played and recorded all guitars and bass as well as co-wrote digidrums with a drummer (I don't have access to fully mic'd drums). I produced this and 3 other songs for an EP during the spring of 2013. It was my degree project to graduate for e-media but I have recently gone back to clean up my mixes a little. I would appreciate any further advice.

This is the first track off my EP called "Cold War," it is primarily thrashy in style.
https://soundcloud.com/dicklong/cold-war

PS my artist name is Dick Long
I'm the last person to ask about mixing/sonic design, and this metal/thrash style is not my thing, but I love your Odyssey track sound, is that you playing the guitar or recorded someone else? My biggest regret is not learning guitar as really clean bright recorded acoustic or rhythmic guit is so crucial to electro pop production repertoire. I would love to just have a recording of a bunch of random chords and fingering/strumming styles that I could chop up and turn into a pop song, or use as inspiration at least.

And there was some lovely and creepy orchestral stuff in the Dark Beginnings demo (although the strings are probably a bit boring if you know what I mean). Meanwhile what the hell is th Dr Habenstad thing?! lol
 

Falk

that puzzling face
If you're into sample libraries, Pettinhouse acoustic guitar and Prominy V-Metal are amazing-sounding libraries (You need a guitar FX/amp sim suite for V-Metal as it's a sampled electric guitar with clean output)

https://soundcloud.com/falk-2/neon-paradise-ats-version Pettinhouse acoustic (Fingerstyle - there's also pick and strumming libraries separately sampled)

https://soundcloud.com/falk-2/endless-possibility The rhythm guitars in this are 100% sample libraries. V-Metal going into Overloud TH2

I'm not a guitarist but I've dabbled enough and produced/engineered enough recordings to know what's typically possible/not-possible when writing fake guitar parts.

p.s. the post you quoted said "I wrote, played and recorded all guitars and bass" lol
 

lazygecko

Member
I have Shreddage for electric guitar which is great and easy to use, although often I have found that the tone of the guitar doesn't lend itself that well to non-metal riffs.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
New version of Cakewalk SONAR

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152924235232420

Thought this was worth sharing.

I didn't think there could be any feature as groundbreaking/gamechanging/etc as ARA-enabled Melodyne integration into a DAW (SONAR last year) but the new set of features (especially auto vocal alignment) are pretty sick.

Sure, there's already a shit ton of vocal alignment algorithms out there, but just like integrated melodyne, it's all about workflow and efficiency at this point. Being able to record something a few times and easily have it turned into a super-tight chorus-esque effect or have harmonies lock to the main vocal line sounds like it'd be bee's knees.

Also: flexible pricing, including monthly payments. Which is different from subscription models e.g. Adobe Creative Cloud because at the end of the 12 months you get to keep your permanent license. So you can try SONAR legally for like 10 bucks/month and cancel if you feel you're not jiving, or keep paying 10 bucks a month till you hit the end of the payment period at which point you own it.
 
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