-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
RE: D2 LOS rules.
Shit ain't logical, captain.
There is no LOS there.
-
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New Board Gaming |OT2| On Tables, Off Topic
- Thread starter Karkador
- Start date
There is no LOS there.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
Posting for new page.
Hi everyone. I'm just now getting into the hobby and it feels completely overwhelming how many games are out there and how seemingly all of them are various degrees of good.
Can anyone help me start my collection in the right direction by telling me what are the absolute must have have games?
More details. The games I have played and enjoyed are Bang, Dc comics deck building game, dixit, game of thrones 2nd edition.
Planning on getting those plus codenames, the resistance: Avalon and Escape: the curse of the temple, all of which I have only watched reviews.
I don't want to leave out any must have games in genres that I don't even know exist though. And I have a group of friends that would enjoy more complex games, but my family also partakes and there, fun is the most important aspect.
As for me, I like competitive games with clear winners, but as I've stated, I'm new to the wonders of board gaming, so I'm open to everything.
Hi everyone. I'm just now getting into the hobby and it feels completely overwhelming how many games are out there and how seemingly all of them are various degrees of good.
Can anyone help me start my collection in the right direction by telling me what are the absolute must have have games?
More details. The games I have played and enjoyed are Bang, Dc comics deck building game, dixit, game of thrones 2nd edition.
Planning on getting those plus codenames, the resistance: Avalon and Escape: the curse of the temple, all of which I have only watched reviews.
I don't want to leave out any must have games in genres that I don't even know exist though. And I have a group of friends that would enjoy more complex games, but my family also partakes and there, fun is the most important aspect.
As for me, I like competitive games with clear winners, but as I've stated, I'm new to the wonders of board gaming, so I'm open to everything.
Affeinvasion
Member
Just like anything in life, the best course of action is to try out a bunch of things before you buy them. See if there is an open gaming night at a local board game store where you can play demo copies or group up with people who have brought in their own games.
Yeah like everyone said, it depends on what games you like, how much time you'd like to spend playing, how many players you'll be playing with, what they like, etc.
I started my collection a while ago, with Forbidden Island, Sushi Go! and King of Tokyo, but it was until this year that I really got into it, hosting regular board game nights with friends and building a better collection. Something that helped me was getting easy, quick games (like the ones I mentioned, Ticket to Ride, Codenames, etc) to get people into the hobby and then slowly drag them into the more complex ones
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
What's the rule that says it isn't?
RAW, Corner walls don't block LOS like that.
Thread on this issue
Hopefully someone can weigh in. I agree that it seems insane, but let's see what the experts have to say.
I see my reply came too late
I would recommend Codenames since you like Dixit but I see you're already getting that, great choice. Avalon is also a really great game; if you end up liking it I'd also recommend Coup since it's a bluff/deduction game that takes like 10 mins to play with minimal setup - it's a huge hit at my office.
Some of my favorite "competitive" games are Ticket to Ride: Europe, which is also great for getting people into gaming, Lords of Waterdeep which I bought something like 3 months ago and my friends still want to play often. If you've never played coop games I'd recommend you check out a couple at least, those can be a ton of fun. I can't help you much with deckbuilders (all I own is Cthulhu Realms, which mostly has its price going for it), but I'm sure plenty of people here can.
I would recommend Codenames since you like Dixit but I see you're already getting that, great choice. Avalon is also a really great game; if you end up liking it I'd also recommend Coup since it's a bluff/deduction game that takes like 10 mins to play with minimal setup - it's a huge hit at my office.
Some of my favorite "competitive" games are Ticket to Ride: Europe, which is also great for getting people into gaming, Lords of Waterdeep which I bought something like 3 months ago and my friends still want to play often. If you've never played coop games I'd recommend you check out a couple at least, those can be a ton of fun. I can't help you much with deckbuilders (all I own is Cthulhu Realms, which mostly has its price going for it
), but I'm sure plenty of people here can.Affeinvasion
Member
Here's another less extreme example that defies reason. The fact that any of the three situations that have LOS have it blows my fucking mind. No.
As a ex-heroclix player, drawing LoS from corners seems bizarre and unintuitive. LoS should always be drawn from the center of one square to the center of another square...that way there is only one point you ever have to worry about instead of four.
I am such a firm believer in getting games right for your group and most common scenarios (# of players, which players, how much time you have, etc.). It's a mistake I made a little when starting out was just getting games because they were "classics" so I'd wind up getting stuff I absolutely hated like Hive or games that would take hours and I'd never find anyone to play with like Game of Thrones board game (too be fair, in addition to playtime I don't like this one either
). Sounds tricky, but there are actually fantastic resources on BGG for you to find the right games. I have this bookmarked for example: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/205940/optimum-game-selection-tool-v30So at the beginning take it easy on trying to "force" anyone into specific games, and instead approach it from the opposite angle of what would maximize the enjoyment for that particular group. Some of the main factors to consider include theme, playtime, complexity, and number of players. I'll see even experienced people just take the box at its word for player count but you absolutely should not do that. 7 Wonders with 2? Catan(+expansion) with 6? Sure, they're both supported, but they're also hot garbage compared to actually good 2 and 6p games you could be playing. Thankfully the list I linked accounts for that, and each game page on BGG will give the box player count and a recommended player count, the latter of which I mostly swear by.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
Sushi Go and Coup seem to be sure bets. They are pretty cheap and sound fun.
I'm really excited and want to try a lot of games out. I've even neglected videogames in favor of researching which games I should buy!
I'm really excited and want to try a lot of games out. I've even neglected videogames in favor of researching which games I should buy!
Agreed. CtC isn't 100% perfect but its sooooo much better for damn sure.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
LOS is indeed available in all cases. I guess you have to just take it as "a game rule". But the IA LOS rules would indeed make these cases more realistic.
That's the dream. I might toy around with that, too.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
I am such a firm believer in getting games right for your group and most common scenarios (# of players, which players, how much time you have, etc.). It's a mistake I made a little when starting out was just getting games because they were "classics" so I'd wind up getting stuff I absolutely hated like Hive or games that would take hours and I'd never find anyone to play with like Game of Thrones board game (too be fair, in addition to playtime I don't like this one either
So at the beginning take it easy on trying to "force" anyone into specific games, and instead approach it from the opposite angle of what would maximize the enjoyment for that particular group. Some of the main factors to consider include theme, playtime, complexity, and number of players. I'll see even experienced people just take the box at its word for player count but you absolutely should not do that. 7 Wonders with 2? Catan(+expansion) with 6? Sure, they're both supported, but they're also hot garbage compared to actually good 2 and 6p games you could be playing. Thankfully the list I linked accounts for that, and each game page on BGG will give the box player count and a recommended player count, the latter of which I mostly swear by.
Thanks alot. I'll check that site out.
Also, any good places to buy from, or should I stick with amazon?
Coolstuffinc.com and Miniaturemarket.com are USUALLY going to be better deals in the long run if you can buy in bulk ($100 orders for free shipping).
Amazon has ramped up the competitive prices lately, but I still find the above more reliable in getting the lowest price out there.
I pretty much lost interest in videogames for a year or so while exploring lots of different board games
Shadow_FFVI
Member
It's great to find a new hobby that I can be passionate about.
BattleMonkey
Member
Yea but problem with centers that some don't like is that it can slow things down as people can often sit there with a straight edge arguing "yes I got LOS!" "No you don't, it's touching X!"
The use of corners for a board game really isn't a bad idea, but D2 handles it poorly.
Really IA with one little rule tweak improved the LOS immensely and you don't get such stupid situations as posted above.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I'm going to try the IA rules next time I bust out D2. Just to make sure, it's one corner to 2 corners instead of one to one, right? Same corner to 2 different corners? And does a figure block it's own LOS like in D2?
BattleMonkey
Member
Yea you draw two lines from one corner of the attacker, and the two lines much reach two different corners of the target without being interrupted like in D2.
A figure does not block line of sight to itself. The target figure also does not block line of sight.
This has some good examples of IA targeting https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1316921/line-sight-around-corners
AbsolutBro
Member
Say whaaaaaat? Gotta link I can peruse?
I've played through the Kindred of Fire campaign for D2 recently and enjoyed it. Didn't really have an issue with Los rules, but then we mostly hid behind Trenloe the Strong.
Not a lot of details. They mentioned it in one sentence in the In Flight report at GenCon. Don't expect anything til next year.
Indeed it is. While I've always enjoyed board games like Clue and Scrabble, I started getting into the newer stuff a few years ago. Unfortunately now I've wound up with a collection of games that I want to play but rarely am able to get to the table.
Some bits of advice for you:
Know who will play with you. This is the biggest issue I've found. I know my wife will always play a game with me, and a friend of ours is always up for a game, but beyond that, most of my game playing friends have either moved away or never have time to sit down to a major game.
Discover what you like. There are a LOT of different types of games and different game mechanics (yes, mechanics is the correct word) so explore everything.
Discover what your friends like. This, more than anything, dictates what you'll be able to play. My gaming friends LOVE Smash Up, but really hate Robo-Rally. Needless to say, we've played a lot of one, and the other hasn't seen a table in years.
Buy used, when you can and remember that you can always sell games back. This can rapidly become an expensive hobby. If you can buy a used game from a reputable market, then do it. And if a game doesn't click with you, there's bound to be someone out there who will be happy to buy or trade for it. Also, this helps keep your shelf space free for new games.
That said, a few suggestions for games to check out:
-Sushi Go: Small, simple, really easy to learn/teach, and a good way to see if you like drafting. So, so, so very easy to get people to play. If your group likes this, then you can consider moving up to 7 Wonders.
-Ticket to Ride: No other board game does a better job at getting people introduced to modern gaming...and it's a BOARD game (I'm finding that fewer and fewer games have actual boards). I'd say that Europe is the best one to start with, as it's not as bone simple as the US, but not as fiddly as Marklin.
-Forbidden Island: This one I'd suggest trying to see if your group likes cooperative games. However, know that this is fairly simple. Forbidden Desert is a touch more complex/challenging, and Pandemic is next up on that list. I'd say check out all three in videos (I think there's a Table-Top episode for each one) and choose the one you like the most. I think every collection should have some sort of cooperative games included.
-Smash Up: As I mentioned, my group loves this game, but I know that not everyone does. If you want to test it out without too much commitment, you can buy a single expansion like "Its All Your Fault" or "Awesome Level 9000" and then play a 2 player game.
-Betrayal at the House on the Hill: This one is that small step into a more in-depth game, where characters have stats, and you roll checks, and there are constant 'draw card, read, do action' events. However, it is generally another crowd pleaser.
Finally, just going to list a few more you might glance at, some of them are games that are good, but get overlooked as new stuff keeps coming out.
-Lords of Vegas: If you want a property owning game like Monopoly that is not boring, this is the way to go. A lot of risk v reward choices to be made, which really does fit the vegas theme.
-Robinson Crusoe: Probably not the game I'd suggest for someone just starting out, but needed to mention that it is, by far, the best co-op game out there. Amazing theme and manages to avoid the 'leader control' that a lot of other co-op games can fall into.
-Mysterium: Dixit with a purpose. Just don't play with the additional US rules.
-Libertalia: You need at least one person at the table who knows how to play and can run the game. Game is all about trying to guess what card everyone else will play. Really a great game for 3-5 people (heck, I've heard 2 is fun just because it ramps up strategy).
EYEL1NER
Member
Man, I am elated right now. I just got home from a fantastic X-Wing match (I've done horribly in the past couple weeks at game nights and an OP event, so I needed a good game) and found an email in my inbox regarding codex. Not only is it going to ship early, it is going to ship three months earlier than advertised. It's pretty well-known that David Sirlin puts a lot of thought into balancing his games, but he puts just as much thought into running his Kickstarter projects. I figured if I could get Codex a month early like with Yomi, I would be happy. I didn't expect to get it before something like Secret Hitler, which is currently late and supposed to be shipping this week.
I don't know when I'll be able to play it; I currently have another large and unwieldy card game in Millennium Blades which is still unplayed. But I'll at least be able to look at it and sort through some of the cards soon. I know it got some praise from people who have demoed it recently, so I may make a strong effort to learn it quickly.
I don't know when I'll be able to play it; I currently have another large and unwieldy card game in Millennium Blades which is still unplayed. But I'll at least be able to look at it and sort through some of the cards soon. I know it got some praise from people who have demoed it recently, so I may make a strong effort to learn it quickly.
I should take a picture of my silly organizing solution, which consists of a million small labeled envelopes standing on edge.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
As mentioned before, they said like, one line about it, but have deleted all the tweets and confirmation of it since.
guessing it's pretty far out. And of course, it'll likely be its own new self-contained campaign versus using the existing ones.
After having been into X-Wing since the beginning, I swore I wouldn't fall into another FFG miniatures game. The ground game of Imperial Assault didn't interest me.
Then I finally played it a couple months ago at a friend's. Was hooked, bought my own copy of every mini for the game, assembled a regular group to start ploughing through it.
So good
personally I would just buy the marvel legendary game instead of DC unless you are a huge DC fan. Just better put together *shrugs* (tastes can vary, the DC one isn't terrible just rather uninspired)
that being said, I would recommend seeing if there are any board game meet ups, or small conventions related to nerdy stuff near you.
board games aren't cheap, and I could tell you plenty of games to go buy that would different from most lists here but I don't want you to end up buying something and disliking it.
I would however highly recommend looking into some board game apps.
if you have IOS you can get
Lords of Waterdeep (solid worker placement game)
Sentinals of the multiverse (co op themed deck game where you are super heroes taking on a boss also on PC and android)
Pandemic (I think it is on android as well)
Pathfinder Adventures (this one is even free to play and is solid woot woot also on PC)
Ghost stories (hard co op game not sure how the app is but the board game is fun)
Ticket to ride (made the board game unplayble for me given how much faster it goes, also on pc and android)
small world (also on android and Pc, it's a pick your race and place it game,)
Forbidden Island has an app I think.
I am sure there are others, but I am tired.
but since you can get the board games digitally for a fraction of the price, it's a great way to test out games and find more stuff you like.
what additional rules?
The US version added this weird betting mechanic where each round a player could bet on if they thought another player was right or wrong. Then, when you get to the final stage, those who won the most bets got to see all three cards, those who didn't win enough only two, and those who lost a lot only get to see a single card.
I take it in the original version everyone just saw three cards?
if so, I can't really see a problem.
it's very rare anyone doesn't see all 3 cards with the betting mechanic as long as you pay attention and help people figure out their cards.
I think of the 10 or so games I have played, only the first game, and one other game had people not see all 3 cards. The first game because we didn't grasp the betting, and one other game because everyone but one person finishing in like 4 rounds and that person didn't have anyone to bet on.
also the cards seen aren't just based off the bets, they play a role but you also get counters for each round you get all your cards before the last.
Like I could get not liking it adding a bit more to deal with, but it's relatively harmless. not really anything you need to skip.
*looks up the original rules in detail*
edit:
seems the american version uses a timer (something that in general rarely comes into play)
people seem to think that explaining the voting would "drastically up the explanation time" it added 10 seconds to my explanation to non gamers. "put x if you think they are wrong, check if you think they are right, if you are correct you will get a point which will allow you to see more cards at the end."
I mean in general you could play without the rule, but i don't think it is something you have to skip. either would be perfectly fine to me. i guess I would go with dealer's choice. instead of saying skip it point out that it should be optional advanced rules?
One Night Ultimate Werewolf is similar to Avalon/Resistance but a little more "fun" and social. It also scales a lot better with fewer/more players.
Hanabi is another excellent small game. It's cooperative and exceedingly simple, but very clever.
Both ONUW and Hanabi are great with families and can be used as fillers with more "hardcore" groups.
Beyond those, Terra Mystica and/or Sycthe are worth considering. They're heavier and more thinky than most of the games you listed, but if your group enjoys Game of Thrones, they should have no problem with TM/Sycthe. Both games feature area control and an upgrade-based economy with variable scoring, but Sycthe has more combat (and mechs) and TM has more blocking (and a light fantasy theme).
Lords of Waterdeep is a family-friendly worker placement game with a light Dungeons & Dragons theme that works surprisingly well with both new and experienced gamers. You may also want to look into a standout auction/economic game of some sort (Medici, a lighter 5-6 player Knizia design, was just reprinted, but there are plenty of others, including my favorites, Age of Steam and Imperial, as well as the much-loved Power Grid).
BomberMouse
Member
The expansion is stand alone though.
From what I've read, The Long Night is effectively an upgraded version of the base game. If you play without the extra optional modules, it's just Dead of Winter with alternate characters/buildings/cards and better quality components.
The only reasons I see to buy the base game are possibly price, the slighter more numerous cards, or personal preference for particular characters (etc.).
It's kind of like deck-builders and their stand-alone expansions (e.g., Dominion: Intrigue), but without quite so much integration.
The only reasons I see to buy the base game are possibly price, the slighter more numerous cards, or personal preference for particular characters (etc.).
That would be called a sequel, then
It's kind of like deck-builders and their stand-alone expansions (e.g., Dominion: Intrigue), but without quite so much integration.
BattleMonkey
Member
The game itself is component and fiddly enough, when I hear them adding more features to a game like this, I often kinda take pause. Some games really don't need more rules
I have both and if you're only going to buy one, go with Long Night.
The Beneath Nexus Kickstarter just hit 90% funding with 6 days to go. I've got my fingers crossed for the homestreatch.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ymmetrical-dungeon-crawling-car?ref=user_menu
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ymmetrical-dungeon-crawling-car?ref=user_menu
To me, the betting mechanic adds flavor and interaction to Mysterium. It makes sense with psychics having intuitions about who's right and who's wrong. And, it's funny when someone moves their token and gets 3 "WRONG" votes immediately slapped on them.
I'm not a big fan of the pure win/lose condition at the end though. I've been in a game where everything went smoothly except for a 50/50 vote at the end where the tiebreaker guessed wrong.
I'm not a big fan of the pure win/lose condition at the end though. I've been in a game where everything went smoothly except for a 50/50 vote at the end where the tiebreaker guessed wrong.
antiquegamer
Member
The original rule was nice and simple and easy to teach. The English language just added mechanic to make it more gamey. I have played with all three version and from our experience no one like the English version.
antiquegamer
Member
I would just get the new version it's a stand alone with added stuffs. There really is no reason to get the original if you just want to experience the game.
Speaking of Mysterium, I played a somewhat similar game recently that was called Deception: Murder in Hong Kong. It went over really well and has become a favorite "party game" for larger player counts on game nights.
It's a strange combination of Clue, Mysterium, and Codenames, with some hidden role thrown in as well.
Basically, each player(6-10ish?) is dealt a role. There's one forensic scientist, one murderer, and X detectives. Then, all players except the scientist are dealt 4 face up murder "weapons" and 4 face up clues.
The murderer then picks one of his face up clues and one weapon, which the scientist sees. The scientist then has 5 random tiles in front of them with a list. For example, one might be location, with Office, Bedroom, Hospital Room, etc listed. Another one might be cause of death, with things like Accidental, Poison, suffocation, blood loss. He has to put a marker next to ONE item per board. He cannot speak at all, or hint towards the murderer in any way except by placing his markers on the tiles. Then the detectives spend some time discussing it as a group, followed by a brief chance to each make their case individually. To win, they have to correctly guess the murderer, as well as which specific clue and weapon they chose. Each detective gets one guess for the entire game. If nobody gusses correctly, the scientist draws a new tile which he can use to replace a current tile, and place a marker on it. This is a good time to get rid of a tile that seems to be misleading the detectives. Everyone talks again about the new info, then you repeat one last time.
So it's like Codenames and Mysterium in that the clues and weapons deliberately share similarities, and the scientist is trying to give you info that points specifically to what he needs. Also like Mysterium, the scientist is forced to remain silent and only use the resouces in front of him to provide info. Hidden role is obviously the aspect of the murderer being one of the detectives, deliberately trying to lead people down the incorrect path.
It's a strange combination of Clue, Mysterium, and Codenames, with some hidden role thrown in as well.
Basically, each player(6-10ish?) is dealt a role. There's one forensic scientist, one murderer, and X detectives. Then, all players except the scientist are dealt 4 face up murder "weapons" and 4 face up clues.
The murderer then picks one of his face up clues and one weapon, which the scientist sees. The scientist then has 5 random tiles in front of them with a list. For example, one might be location, with Office, Bedroom, Hospital Room, etc listed. Another one might be cause of death, with things like Accidental, Poison, suffocation, blood loss. He has to put a marker next to ONE item per board. He cannot speak at all, or hint towards the murderer in any way except by placing his markers on the tiles. Then the detectives spend some time discussing it as a group, followed by a brief chance to each make their case individually. To win, they have to correctly guess the murderer, as well as which specific clue and weapon they chose. Each detective gets one guess for the entire game. If nobody gusses correctly, the scientist draws a new tile which he can use to replace a current tile, and place a marker on it. This is a good time to get rid of a tile that seems to be misleading the detectives. Everyone talks again about the new info, then you repeat one last time.
So it's like Codenames and Mysterium in that the clues and weapons deliberately share similarities, and the scientist is trying to give you info that points specifically to what he needs. Also like Mysterium, the scientist is forced to remain silent and only use the resouces in front of him to provide info. Hidden role is obviously the aspect of the murderer being one of the detectives, deliberately trying to lead people down the incorrect path.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I've narrowed down my next purchase to either Elder Signs or Eldritch Horror.
any thoughts?
any thoughts?
=====
EDIT: well, fuck. I typed all this out and pressed submit and only now do I realise that I saw the name 'Elder Signs', but my brain read 'Mansions of Madness 2nd Ed'. Why? Buggered if I know. I guess none of the below comparison is strictly useful now, shit.
Sorry for the mistake dump.=====
I've been learning/playing a bunch of both over the past two weeks (albeit on Tabletop Simulator, and doing so solo) and I've had a fantastic time with the pair of them. Difficult to say one way or the other which I've preferred; moment-to-moment decision-wise they both play fairly similarly at their core. For me it's a matter of slightly faster-paced and breezier (MoM) versus grander investment and, um, 'chewier'. In other words, I found I was able to just spontaneously decide "I want to play MoM again" and get started shortly after. Whereas with EH, it took more of an "okay, let's get my chores done so I can set this up and make a whole thing out of it". Plus I found that the ongoing story and decision-making would stick in my mind during 'walk away from the table' breaks in EH, whereas MoM was cleaner and easier to mentally walk away from without it lingering in the back of mind.
Couple of more mundane, general things to consider:
- Is table footprint an issue for you? (MoM's fairly compact)
- If you get EH, are you okay with perhaps completing the core game by getting the Forsaken Lore expansion in tandem or shortly after?
- Does the option of shorter 60-90 minute games sound particularly appealing? (EH games are going to stretch to 120 minutes minimum maybe?)
Again though, gonna stress: these thoughts are only from me playing these games a bunch just these past two weeks (I'm a newcomer to both, no doubt). Plus, I've been playing them solo on TTS. Plus, I've had a damn, damn good time across both.