Try out the Elder Signs app? Its cheap enough to count as a demo for the physical game.
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New Board Gaming |OT2| On Tables, Off Topic
- Thread starter Karkador
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Try out the Elder Signs app? Its cheap enough to count as a demo for the physical game.
JetBlackPanda
Member
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EDIT: well, fuck. I typed all this out and pressed submit and only now do I realise that I saw the name 'Elder Signs', but my brain read 'Mansions of Madness 2nd Ed'. Why? Buggered if I know. I guess none of the below comparison is strictly useful now, shit.Sorry for the mistake dump.
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I've been learning/playing a bunch of both over the past two weeks (albeit on Tabletop Simulator, and doing so solo) and I've had a fantastic time with the pair of them. Difficult to say one way or the other which I've preferred; moment-to-moment decision-wise they both play fairly similarly at their core. For me it's a matter of slightly faster-paced and breezier (MoM) versus grander investment and, um, 'chewier'. In other words, I found I was able to just spontaneously decide "I want to play MoM again" and get started shortly after. Whereas with EH, it took more of an "okay, let's get my chores done so I can set this up and make a whole thing out of it". Plus I found that the ongoing story and decision-making would stick in my mind during 'walk away from the table' breaks in EH, whereas MoM was cleaner and easier to mentally walk away from without it lingering in the back of mind.
Couple of more mundane, general things to consider:
- Is table footprint an issue for you? (MoM's fairly compact)
- If you get EH, are you okay with perhaps completing the core game by getting the Forsaken Lore expansion in tandem or shortly after?
- Does the option of shorter 60-90 minute games sound particularly appealing? (EH games are going to stretch to 120 minutes minimum maybe?)
Again though, gonna stress: these thoughts are only from me playing these games a bunch just these past two weeks (I'm a newcomer to both, no doubt). Plus, I've been playing them solo on TTS. Plus, I've had a damn, damn good time across both.
you aren't crazy I ninja edited it elder signs because i accidently typed Mom 2e. I am looking at that also so I really appreciate the write up.
Oh crap haha. Okay. Thank you. I was eye-rolling pretty hard at my brain there.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
Thanks for all the recommendations. GAF never disappoints. I'll look into everything suggested here, including what my friends and relatives enjoy.
Two questions though. How is Marvel Legendary better than Dc Comics?
Is Escape: the curse of the temple a good acquisition? The Shut up and Sit down review really made it look fun.
Two questions though. How is Marvel Legendary better than Dc Comics?
Is Escape: the curse of the temple a good acquisition? The Shut up and Sit down review really made it look fun.
EYEL1NER
Member
I just played my copy of Escape for the first time last week. There were some favorable comments in this thread after I mentioned that I would be playing it. It was a tiny bit fun but also fell a bit flat for me, but only because we had a rule wrong (somehow missed multiple times that you could set aside dice for use later, like 'locking' them) and we also only had three people; I think more people are needed for it to be a good time. It is a frantic game though and the timer is a novel idea. It plays quickly too and doesn't have too many rules. The expansions that are available look like they can switch up a lot of things and add a lot to the game while slowly being introduced into the main game.
I have yet to play my copy of Legendary but everything I have ever heard is that it is better than DC. DC is a very simple deckbuilding game without anything that sets it apart from any of the other deckbuilding games that Cryptozoic puts out. I do like the DC Deckbuilding game, but it is simple and can take a long time to play.
Dc comics is very simple and straight forward, it works well enough as an introduction to deckbuilders, and if you want more of a competitive game it works better at that than Marvel, but aside from the theme of DC the game Ascension is really just a much better version of the same game. The simple fact is the DC game is just a card game with a DC skin put on it, as is evident by the other card games the company sells that play basically the same just with different skins. That all being said I still own most of the DC version of the game and the expansions. The co op expansion to the game is just okay though. It takes way to long for what it is (like 3 hours) but it's not a bad experience either.
As for Marvel it has a lot more depth, and instead of focusing on competitive it's actually co-op against a greater evil, a theme that seems way more fitting for a super hero game. Due to the nature of the game the Marvel game has loads more variety (you choose different heroes, villains, enemies, evil plots ect so you can build up a lot of different feeling adventures). with it and keeps expanding and adding new mechanics. While the mechanics can be used for other games (and have been with aliens, firefly, big trouble in little china) the company tends to take the time to make the games fit the theme more. Aliens actually plays decently differently from Marvel (I haven't played the other ones yet but i have heard they also feel decently unique). Now don't get me wrong, the main company isn't the best ever (in fact their way of packing games is one of the stupidest I know as instead of any real order to the cards they are just kind of random making it harder to sort to start with) but overall the theme is just way stronger, and the mechanics of the game offer far more depth while really not being much more complicated than the DC game.
I do hope you aren't a huge fantastic four fan though, as while marvel legendary has an expansion for it, it is stupid expensive anymore. Sadly I got rid of the box, otherwise I would be tempted to sell mine since last i looked it was going for like $200 and I don't actually care about fantastic four, just bought it for more content
SapphiCine
Member
Eldritch Horror is brutal and I would recommend watching videos of playthroughs or finding another way to try it out first. I like Elder Signs but couldn't get into EH. You are much more at the mercy of the dice in EH than ES.
Get both!
EH if you want more of a challenge up front.
ES if you want to not get whipped like a Novigrad whore (at least until you buy Xpacks).
JetBlackPanda
Member
This is the kind of advice I come to GAF for!! love it!
Personally (and I've only played a couple of sessions of core Elder Signs so take as you will) the yahtzee-ing is too heavily-implemented, too intrinsic, for my liking. The game rode a hollow story on a sequence of dice rolls much more than any of the other likely games in the family.
That's exactly why I canceled my preorder actually. DoW is fun but already slightly too complex for what it is imo.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I can see that and honestly its kind of the draw for me. a little lighter game that the wife can get into.
she has a hard time with longer really thematic story games.
It's certainly lighter, for sure. But you reeally have to be cool with yahtzee dice as an enjoyable determinator.
In the above case, EH is out I think. The investment - both time.wise and concentration.wise - to any single EH session seems (to me) to be high.
But if ease of access is a consideration, do give the 2e MoM a thought. It's quick to place, fast to play (per turn) and the provided scenarios range from short (an hour and a bit) to laughably long. Very easy to house-rule your way to a less repeatedly punitive experience too - just agree to change 2 actions per turn to 3 actions. I can also say that I've played that first (short) MoM scenario 4 times and each time it's been enjoyably different, and 3 times it's been *dramatically* different -- like completely different monsters and plot twists.
EDIT: just out of interest, you say your wife dosn't go for 'longer' games. That's a really useful metric. If duration of a session is a big thing, what would be ideal? 30 minutes, 45? An hour to 90 minutes?
I actually hate social-deduction games like Werewolf/Resistance and their hundreds of clones (I'm cool with deeper traitor games like BSG and Shadows over Camelot that boil down to more than just "no fuck YOU -- you're a liar IN REAL LIFE!") but Deception is one that I really enjoy. It's cool because instead of doing little logic puzzles in your brain and then calling your acquiantances lying pieces of shit, you can actually just focus on the reasoning for why one item is a closer match to the clues than any other. And it's not much of a stretch for even the murderer to do this, so it's actually a subtler and more social game of this type than most others. Also really like how it supports the big player counts. Only thing that throws me is that you have SO MANY cards on the table with big player counts that you almost just need to go one by one through everyone's items at the start.
One caveat here is that Elder Sign, while lighter, is still a touch crunchy. I mean it's "Yahtzee style" sure, but it's not like King of Tokyo or something. You'll still be playing for 90m in some cases, still be dealing with monster-placement decisions and rules around item usage and timing. It's much lighter than EH and AH, but it's not a light game. I'd put it as a solid medium given all the factors noted above.
Base following base rules is super easy too. I'd probably disallow buying Elder Signs from the shop so you at least have a chance of ever losing.
Elder Sign + Gates of Arkham is delicious though. I'd put it on par with EH in terms of difficulty and the new facedown mechanics are just great. So that is a bonus of Elder Sign too is that you can scale into almost an EH experience with just one expansion (not narratively, but challenge-wise). But yeah, don't go in thinking it's a totally light, fun dice-chucker.
Cool thing is you can get a sense from YT videos how it would do for you. I've actually been doing this a ton recently and it put me off games like Seafall and Dead of Winter expansion, as well as introduced a few cool ones to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzB-LaU6qY
The 'videos' section for a game on BGG - since I'm a newcomer to the hobby, can anyone guide me on etiquette -- are links to the videos tab only added by the creators (members of the BGG community) or are they added more typically by viewers who consider the content worthy?
I just put up some playthrough vids, and intend to make a few more, but I'm super hesitant to drop any links into that BGG tab. I just want to get a check on my etiquette; I really can't figure out the accepteds there.
I just put up some playthrough vids, and intend to make a few more, but I'm super hesitant to drop any links into that BGG tab. I just want to get a check on my etiquette; I really can't figure out the accepteds there.
I've seen videos added both by the content creator (like for example, Drive Thru Review, Rahdo, and such), or some other person will post the videos (like a lot of Dice Tower videos, at least some of them).
I'd say it's fine to do both. I think the submissions are screened by moderators, anyway, so it's not gonna go through if there's any problem with it. However, if it's you doing some playthroughs, I'm sure there wont be an issue.
I'd say it's fine to do both. I think the submissions are screened by moderators, anyway, so it's not gonna go through if there's any problem with it. However, if it's you doing some playthroughs, I'm sure there wont be an issue.
^ Okay, maybe I'll give it a go. I don't even know what the aim is for me personally:
I'm spending x number of hours, learning rules of games I do not own, on TTS, to reach a point where I can play a full, painless session on my main monitor. Soooo then...
*just imagine* ...Pressing REC, pressing on and talking awkward shit, then uploading to YT... it's a thing that is *possible*, but I'm yet to determine if it's a thing which is, a) entertaining to Human A1, and, b) a thing that I - socially awkward boy #7776902 - can deliver in an opportune fashion.
I mean, shit, antipathjy toward slightly awkward Tabletop playthroughs are not my antagonist here, but still, that matter of etiquette -- and maybe this is just because I'm a stupid overly polite fuckin englishman here - that matter of etiquette is critical, a core rule.can deliver in an opportune fashion.
Added some edits, sorry
I'm spending x number of hours, learning rules of games I do not own, on TTS, to reach a point where I can play a full, painless session on my main monitor. Soooo then...
*just imagine* ...Pressing REC, pressing on and talking awkward shit, then uploading to YT... it's a thing that is *possible*, but I'm yet to determine if it's a thing which is, a) entertaining to Human A1, and, b) a thing that I - socially awkward boy #7776902 - can deliver in an opportune fashion.
I mean, shit, antipathjy toward slightly awkward Tabletop playthroughs are not my antagonist here, but still, that matter of etiquette -- and maybe this is just because I'm a stupid overly polite fuckin englishman here - that matter of etiquette is critical, a core rule.can deliver in an opportune fashion.
Added some edits, sorry
JetBlackPanda
Member
Thanks for all the ES info guys I really appreciate it.
Yup, for sure. I do not own any sort of GoPro, and personally I find most 'physical' playthroughs of boardgames a little too shakeycam-tastic.
At best I dislike it. At worst, the shakiness of the phonecam makes me feel ill.
So, I've been trying to leverage the demonstrative benefits of TTS into video form.
Sadly I'm a socially awkward clumsaholic. So yeah, etc. Vocal commentary swings between indecisive umming and ahhing and long-pause deep strategising. Bad radio, safe to say.
But, I think my latest attempt (MoM) was approaching okayness. Not great, with a handful of bad rules and missed rules, but -- friendly enough. Not terrible!
Once I think my delivery is commons-acceptable, I'll start mentioning. But again, the etiquette of promotion is something I'm going to lose sleep over.
EDIT:
Just yesterday for example, I learnt how to play Friday. (And I also learned that holy crap I love this game.)
Todayu I spent a good three hours experimenting with Difficulty_4 games and also commentating through them. Which is to say, I enforced upon myself a stressful time juggling enjoyment and social communication/explanation.
All that said, I want to stress (and nod knowingly at the TTS copywrite elephant in the room) -- just learning rules to various games like this is great.
Maybe check out FUSE, same vibe but I prefer the theme. Scales well, adjustable difficulty and very portable.
antiquegamer
Member
We went on mini vacation for couple of days at a cabin and I was hoping to get to play more board games (or at least that was what promise to me) but it was a bait and switch so we only got couple of games in. I was hoping to play Captain Sonar but never got around to it. I did get to teach someone else Mage Knight well the re-theme Star Trek version. I have to say if you want to get into Mage Knight but terrify at the complexity and like Star Trek (and don't mind a few liberties that the game takes) then get Star Trek Frontiers. It is pretty much a streamline (still pretty complex) version of Mage Knight and it was super quick for me to teach (though the icons throw me for a loop because I wasn't familiar with them). Overall I really like it and probably will play more as solo for when I want space theme game and less set up. It is definitely easier and if I want 2-3 players game of Mage Knight I probably would go with Star Trek version instead. That said, I still would definitely keep Mage Knight in my collection.
We also play FUSE, I was thinking this would be great game for us but it didn't go over very well. The bomb cards were really confusing for many of us and did take a lot more explaining than I had the time for.
I also manage to get Mansion of Madness to the table late at night and while my niece loved it (she loves story and mystery type of games) my daughter still has a lot of hatred for Mansion from the 1st edition we tried couple weeks ago. I like it better but the base for the new version along with the miniatures are terrible. The card board tokens do not fit into the base and the figures barely stay on it. I think when I play this next time we are going to use cardboard chits and standee from Eldritch instead of the miniatures. My niece and I really enjoy the app and the story but my daughter and her friend got really bore with the game half-way through. We did manage to get to the end but the difficulty of the game and the random bad things were really a turn off for them. Also I definitely play too many of this game solo and it was frustrating for me (and for them) to play this co-op. I was quarterbacking and have to stop my self several time.
We also play FUSE, I was thinking this would be great game for us but it didn't go over very well. The bomb cards were really confusing for many of us and did take a lot more explaining than I had the time for.
I also manage to get Mansion of Madness to the table late at night and while my niece loved it (she loves story and mystery type of games) my daughter still has a lot of hatred for Mansion from the 1st edition we tried couple weeks ago. I like it better but the base for the new version along with the miniatures are terrible. The card board tokens do not fit into the base and the figures barely stay on it. I think when I play this next time we are going to use cardboard chits and standee from Eldritch instead of the miniatures. My niece and I really enjoy the app and the story but my daughter and her friend got really bore with the game half-way through. We did manage to get to the end but the difficulty of the game and the random bad things were really a turn off for them. Also I definitely play too many of this game solo and it was frustrating for me (and for them) to play this co-op. I was quarterbacking and have to stop my self several time.
SapphiCine
Member
Yep. The Yahtzee comparison is bull. There is more legitimate criticism of the base game.
To add to the ES vs EH discussion, I might argue that EH is actually an easier to gronk game if you are using the expansions for ES. Especially the Omens of Ice one. You have multiple resources and tracks, story decks, different sequences of decks. It is a lot of management and honestly table space being the only factor at that point I really would rather play EH or MoM 2nd. Also just get the first expansion for EH if you choose that, it is basically completing the base game.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Amazon fucked up my order. I put in my new debit card and purchased Runebound earlier this week. I was wondering why it hadn't arrived yet, so I logged into my "shopping" Gmail account and noticed that they froze my account because of the addition of a new card. Daaaaaamnit.
Fixed that and re-placed the order. Should be here Sunday. Weekend bummer.
Fixed that and re-placed the order. Should be here Sunday. Weekend bummer.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
My friends and I finished the base game of T.I.M.E. Stories last night. It was really fun. What do you guys think of the expansions?
I've played Marcy and the Dragon one as well. I was worried they were going to feel the same, but they really don't. I definitely recommend both of them if you enjoyed the base game.
Not sure how much I should say about them for fear of spoilers.
We made it about halfway through the first story before we said fuck it, and just used the cardboard tokens. The minis are not needed for this game, really.
MoM impressions here are so timely. Was kind of thinking about picking it up after watching a few videos on it and listening to podcasters gush, but I really think in a way it's a game designed to be overrated by most American board-game media with the app and "experience" part of it (kind of like Captain Sonar is designed to be overrated by Con people, including media). I'm sure I would love it if I didn't already own AH, EH, and ES (and didn't plan on getting Arkham LCG) but will probably hold off.
Yeah, Omens of Ice, while I still like it, I feel like is a half-step too far in terms of fiddliness (and we consider ourselves experts having played a lot of ES at every step along the way). I really think Gates of Arkham combined with all the cards from base and first expansion is the perfect ES experience. Not for intro level though; you can just do base for that, ban Elder Sign and call it "hard mode" so people feel good when they win.
Yeah, Omens of Ice, while I still like it, I feel like is a half-step too far in terms of fiddliness (and we consider ourselves experts having played a lot of ES at every step along the way). I really think Gates of Arkham combined with all the cards from base and first expansion is the perfect ES experience. Not for intro level though; you can just do base for that, ban Elder Sign and call it "hard mode" so people feel good when they win.
JetBlackPanda
Member
whats weird about MOM 2e is that it makes the game much more a board game. You pull it out and try and win. I feel like first edition took on a story telling aspect and was light role playing. 2e seems to have this a little but with the scenarios repeating and the "randomness" coming from monster and clue locations it feels a little more like a standard board game where the goal is to just win.
if that makes sense, maybe I am rambling.
if that makes sense, maybe I am rambling.
That kinda makes sense i think. It plays so much better. The character interactions is neat too. I just hope they release new scenarios frequently.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
To those with experience with both, which is better, Escape the curse of the temple or Fuse?
Affeinvasion
Member
I hope you like microtransactions in your physical boardgames. Because I have a pretty strong hunch that's how it's gonna happen.
Likely and I'm ok with that. Think there will be two free ones with expansions that include the 1st edition figures.
Edit: And of course free would be better.
I picked up Shadowrun Crossfire on a bit of an impulse after watching a rahdo video where he really praised it (though to be fair in most cases I have really different taste from rahdo) -- it sounded a good deal like Legendary: Encounters which we're hugely into. Also picked up the first expansion which I heard rounds out the base well so I guess I'm all in. Hope it's good.
The Risk thread currently going on in the main Community section really makes me wish Imperial had a wider availability. It's such a great step forward for that simple-yet-agonizing Risk-type of game. If I had to keep only 10 games in my collection, Imperial would probably make the cut.
antiquegamer
Member
They release new stand alone book for Descent for $24.95 couple years back and what is the difference if they going to release a scenario in an app for a few bucks. You are making it seems like this is something new, all the expansion in the past for Mansion of Madness were essentially microtransaction. You just get few bits of printed papers (and from what I read they were all pretty horrible.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I'll pay for them if they're well done and have a good chunk of content.
I have one copy without any English language rules that I picked up at Game Market.
If I can find where I stored it, I'll ship it to you.
NuffDREW4two
Member
Going Analog - A new YouTube show where Dan Shoe Hsu, Seanbaby and a collection of EGM/1UP alumni and game-industry veterans take a look at board games which may appeal to video gamers.
Only two episodes in and coming out as schedules permit, so don't expect a flood of content. Great to see some familiar faces together again.
Episode 0: Level 7: Omega Protocol (board game) vs. XCOM
https://youtu.be/z28cjP5Kq5U
Episode 1: BattleCon: War of Indines (board game) vs. Fighting Games
https://youtu.be/F7lo7eFVkYc
Probably could make a thread on the gaming side to garner some attention. If anyone is so inclined, feel free to do so.
Only two episodes in and coming out as schedules permit, so don't expect a flood of content. Great to see some familiar faces together again.
Episode 0: Level 7: Omega Protocol (board game) vs. XCOM
https://youtu.be/z28cjP5Kq5U
Episode 1: BattleCon: War of Indines (board game) vs. Fighting Games
https://youtu.be/F7lo7eFVkYc
Probably could make a thread on the gaming side to garner some attention. If anyone is so inclined, feel free to do so.
antiquegamer
Member
Someone here was looking for Mage Knight expansions, the reprints are now showing up in stores so might want to check your local gaming stores. I just got the replacement tokens and cards for Shades of Tezla expansion for request I put in back in February so the rumor that reprint are showing up make sense.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I know I'm trying to hunt down Krang. I have a notification setup for when he's back in stock, so hopefully soon.