Seen a few reviews of Kingdom Death and I think that is a very apt comparison.
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New Board Gaming |OT2| On Tables, Off Topic
- Thread starter Karkador
- Start date
Seen a few reviews of Kingdom Death and I think that is a very apt comparison.
Love Darkest Dungeon and hadn't thought of that before but it's pretty true. Tabletop version of DD would be great. I feel like most dungeon crawlers and the like are either too complex or too basic, but DD really threads the needle. I'd actually like if they added a bit of variety in the encounters with items and the like, and you could totally do that with FFG-style event decks.
Affeinvasion
Member
Impulse bought Viceroy today from MM. Is it as good as it looks?
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
I have played it once and thought it was compitent, but kind of dull. The bidding mechanic felt a little arbitrary. You knew what you were going for and so do your opponents, so you can math it out and it was almost never worth fighting over the cards. I seem to recall that there was "Trump" mechanic where if someone had the most strength they would end up winning no matter what. It sort of exacerbated the problem I had with the regular bidding mechanic. It's also very abstract so don't go expecting any sort of theme.
I did like the laws in the game. Any game that allows you to effect the rules in significant ways generally will get a thumbs up from me. I also really liked the spatial puzzle as well. It felt satisfying to put the circles together.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
Similar, at least. DD doesn't have quite the same level of "boobs everywhere" thing that KD has going, but they both have that dark, somewhat nihilistic tone, a focus on building up your settlement, a parade of largely-disposable meat puppets that you send out to die, a focus on sanity mechanics, etc.
The main difference, I'd say, is that KD doesn't have the same sort of push your luck/endurance thing that DD has, where you're trying to push just ONE MORE ROOM into the dungeon while hoping that you don't wipe your entire party. I could see that translating pretty well to a tabletop game.
The back as in the black part that touches the table? Unless it's super deep/gouged in there I wouldn't freak out -- and I'm a bit of a stickler on game condition.
In unrelated news, my backup copy of Forbidden Stars shipped from Amazon!
Now if only that Fury of Dracula would ship....hah...
So no real challenge? Just a matter of grinding forever?
NuffDREW4two
Member
On Reddit and BGG, people have recommended using coin protectors for your order tokens to prevent wear and giving away your plans. Seemed like a pretty good idea for not too much money.
Edit: 32mm is best. Pic added.
Other than that. See above post, which fairly well nails it. Lots of caring after characters damaged by horrific sanity-destroying events, knowing they will die at some point in your campaign, using human meat as a tool to accomplish increasingly difficult challenges...
No joke, one of my KD characters had his penis stolen by dream bugs last session. Not making that up.
Finally got around to actually playing Eldritch Horror. I took the advice from earlier about just mixing all the expansion stuff in which was a mixed blessing and curse. First mythos I drew was like monster invasion or something from an expansion and wanted like four monsters so I wised up and pulled those from the mythos deck and replaced them. Some of the other expansion stuff was helpful though.
I notice you get fucked over, a lot in this. Spent many turns resting. Got a few bad conditions. Couldn't beat the one monster I fought. Had shitty dice rolls. Ended up having the tentacle disks count down off a running mythos card to end things. Had like four portals open. Shit just kept getting worse but I had a lot of fun!
I notice you get fucked over, a lot in this. Spent many turns resting. Got a few bad conditions. Couldn't beat the one monster I fought. Had shitty dice rolls. Ended up having the tentacle disks count down off a running mythos card to end things. Had like four portals open. Shit just kept getting worse but I had a lot of fun!
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
The Phoenix looked into my future, saw that I had no children in it, and my balls exploded. Seriously. Grinding really doesn't help in KDM that much.
Don't forgot when it hits zero it just means the Ancient One wakes up and you have to solve an extra mystery in most cases. Usually means you're screwed but last time we beat him after he woke up (was Yig I think).
Except Azathoth, that bastard!
Those look pretty great. I'll have to check that out.
I've got my third Extra Life marathon coming up on Sunday and I'm really excited this year. I made a topic for anyone who wants to get into the nitty gritty about running/playing in board game marathons here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1288754.
This year we've only got four players and I had each pick one big strategy game to play:
* Food Chain Magnate (my choice)
* Tzol'kin (my wife's)
* Cosmic Encounter (co-worker 1)
* Argent (co-worker 2)
* Power Grid (bonus extra).
After that we'll push into party games (we have an open invitation for people to drop in during the afternoon). I'm really hoping at least 10 people turn up for some 2 Rooms & a Boom followed by some rounds of Werewolf among other things.
The night will simmer down with increasingly easy to play games for the final 9 hours. I'm hoping to get a win in during Crokinole and also hope to get my wife as a partner during Tichu (which would lead to unfair domination).
This year we've only got four players and I had each pick one big strategy game to play:
* Food Chain Magnate (my choice)
* Tzol'kin (my wife's)
* Cosmic Encounter (co-worker 1)
* Argent (co-worker 2)
* Power Grid (bonus extra).
After that we'll push into party games (we have an open invitation for people to drop in during the afternoon). I'm really hoping at least 10 people turn up for some 2 Rooms & a Boom followed by some rounds of Werewolf among other things.
The night will simmer down with increasingly easy to play games for the final 9 hours. I'm hoping to get a win in during Crokinole and also hope to get my wife as a partner during Tichu (which would lead to unfair domination).
I've played four times now and it's been great. About halfway through the game the amount of choice available is insane. There is a deceptive simplicity to it - the only challenge in explaining the rules is making sure everyone understands how advertising and purchasing decisions work (specifically that a household will NOT buy anything if a restaurant can't supply everything they want).
The three people I've played with (all of them enjoy strategy games) have all really liked it. My wife is holding off on giving it a full endorsement since it is a game that will take 5+ plays to really start making good strategic moves.
The final thing I'd say is that it has a very unique feel, it doesn't replace anything in my collection but holds a place of its own.
Our full tentative lineup is here: 2016 EL Schedule.
On Reddit and BGG, people have recommended using coin protectors for your order tokens to prevent wear and giving away your plans. Seemed like a pretty good idea for not too much money.
Edit: 32mm is best. Pic added.
Damn that's handy! Where would one get these ?
toddhunter
Member
I've spent some time with Mice and Mystics.
I picked it up on impulse as a long weekend purchase. The idea was to get all the miniatures out, paint them with the kids and then go through the game.
After buying a few supplies, the painting went relatively well. I remember painting hero quest as a young boy and loving it, so hopefully the girls enjoyed it as well. As you might expect though, after paying so much the painting process did hurt me a lot...
"Umm you really want bright green stripes on that cockroach?"
"Yes it is the king cockroach"
".............ok"
But I got through it.
The actual game? I'd probably describe it as "fine". Based on the first two chapters the time limit imposed on the game seems a bit restrictive given we really had no choice but to abandon optional story events because we had already progressed so far down the timer tracker. I might have to house rule this a bit moving forward.
I also found the abilities to be very fiddly and full of rule questions. For example one mouse can turn invisible...but can chapter specific characters still see them? What can and can't you do when invisible etc?
But overall we didn't fuss over it too much and treated it as a role playing game (ie Dad just made stuff up to keep things moving along).
I'm not quite sure I would recommend it, since you could have much the same experience with a bit of pen and paper (we use http://herokidsrpg.blogspot.com.au/ btw), but the miniatures seem really good to my untrained eye and it is a quality production. So certainly worth at least a look for a family dungeon crawler.
I picked it up on impulse as a long weekend purchase. The idea was to get all the miniatures out, paint them with the kids and then go through the game.
After buying a few supplies, the painting went relatively well. I remember painting hero quest as a young boy and loving it, so hopefully the girls enjoyed it as well. As you might expect though, after paying so much the painting process did hurt me a lot...
"Umm you really want bright green stripes on that cockroach?"
"Yes it is the king cockroach"
".............ok"
But I got through it.
The actual game? I'd probably describe it as "fine". Based on the first two chapters the time limit imposed on the game seems a bit restrictive given we really had no choice but to abandon optional story events because we had already progressed so far down the timer tracker. I might have to house rule this a bit moving forward.
I also found the abilities to be very fiddly and full of rule questions. For example one mouse can turn invisible...but can chapter specific characters still see them? What can and can't you do when invisible etc?
But overall we didn't fuss over it too much and treated it as a role playing game (ie Dad just made stuff up to keep things moving along).
I'm not quite sure I would recommend it, since you could have much the same experience with a bit of pen and paper (we use http://herokidsrpg.blogspot.com.au/ btw), but the miniatures seem really good to my untrained eye and it is a quality production. So certainly worth at least a look for a family dungeon crawler.
antiquegamer
Member
So FFG (Asmodee USA) is help co-publishing Kickstarter Siege of the Citadel, so is this is their way of expanding license and getting in on Kickstarter pie?
I got shipping notice for Conan along with Vinhos and also the expansion for Tesla VS Edison. So we might get Conan finally!
I got shipping notice for Conan along with Vinhos and also the expansion for Tesla VS Edison. So we might get Conan finally!
BattleMonkey
Member
They lost GW and see the Kickstarter is very successful, so maybe just easy pickings for new titles.
In my opinion, the best card game ever made. I've been deep in it with a buddy over the last couple months (who has been enabling my addiction). I don't follow the competitive meta, but he and I are jockeying to see who has the best Jinteki "spend 0, 1, or 2 credits" mechanic deck.
I also dabbled with an Apex runner deck. Safe to say that changes the game drastically, but I've had a pretty good record with him. He is nasty.
Have you received these and put the tokens in? The description says the inside is 32.7mm. Some folks on BGG were saying the 32.5s were already slightly loose. Wondering about your take on the fit.
No - I just threw them on my to-buy list for now - hmmm...
Tom Vasel has been posting his top 100 games of all time, and he only has the final two videos left to post (#20-11, and #10-1). Cry Havoc hasn't been mentioned yet, but several games from this year have been already so it's very likely it will be in his top 20 games - maybe even top 10.
Someone in this thread mentioned that they suspected Dice Tower of being susceptible to publisher bribes, and honestly I'm kinda starting to feel like that may be the case here. If you head over to BGG, you'll see that the game is having a lot of issues. Lots of scenarios that will come up during gameplay are left unexplained in the rulebook, and one of the cards has an errata fix. The designer of the game is being very helpful with the community in clarifying certain rules and scenarios, and a faq has been written with revisions on the way, but it does seem odd in retrospect that Tom gave it such high praise, especially since his review was posted mid-July.
I dunno. Maybe I'm just putting too much thought into it. I respect the Dice Tower crew and really hope their reviews can be trusted. I've yet to play Cry Havoc myself (though I do own it), but I honestly feel like it might be best for a revised manual or something before I dive into it.
Someone in this thread mentioned that they suspected Dice Tower of being susceptible to publisher bribes, and honestly I'm kinda starting to feel like that may be the case here. If you head over to BGG, you'll see that the game is having a lot of issues. Lots of scenarios that will come up during gameplay are left unexplained in the rulebook, and one of the cards has an errata fix. The designer of the game is being very helpful with the community in clarifying certain rules and scenarios, and a faq has been written with revisions on the way, but it does seem odd in retrospect that Tom gave it such high praise, especially since his review was posted mid-July.
I dunno. Maybe I'm just putting too much thought into it. I respect the Dice Tower crew and really hope their reviews can be trusted. I've yet to play Cry Havoc myself (though I do own it), but I honestly feel like it might be best for a revised manual or something before I dive into it.
I really don't think there are many reviewers you can just trust their reviews full stop. TDT, Rahdo, Drive-Thru, GameBoyGeek -- they all really have their pros and cons, and as a general matter I find them all to be often too positive (not saying they're never critical -- more so that when they go unequivocally apeshit for a game you should take it with a grain of salt). What I do appreciate is just the level of polish in the reviews, especially those that go in-depth on the rules and have nice views of the game. You can glean a lot from that while ignoring the "review" part of the videos usually if so inclined. I like Tom and TDT, but he does have some awkward conflicts that he doesn't always mention (doesn't hide, but just doesn't always mention). Like I think in the Top 100 there was a Dice Tower Essentials game, and Mechs vs. Minions (which he was paid to consult on) and he didn't mention the conflict in either case. I don't see it as nefarious at all, more what happens when you have rank amateurs elevated to the status of being leaders in the field of news/reviews and there's really no one out there to set a clear standard and they don't really know how to handle these issues in the professional manner we're used to from non-hobbyist press. I think he probably lets his designer friendships cloud his judgment too, but again it's mostly inadvertent so not something he'd really notice himself.
This is sort of adjacent, but I do wish there were more top-flight women reviewers or podcasts. Has anyone found any they'd recommend? Suzanne does a KS segment on Board Game Breakfast but I really don't care for KS. I tried a few podcasts too but they were really short. Would love to get a perspective that's not just white-guy gamer all the time.
That all makes sense, particularly what you said about elevated amateurs. I know biases are hard to avoid in pretty much any situation, but his Cry Havoc review is just particularly glaring to me. I think what rubs me the most is he says he cannot find a flaw with the game, but a quick check on BGG shows plenty of very obvious flaws. He also gave the game a 9 on the Dice Tower website, which conflicts in my mind with the "flawless" comment. I guess I need to just see how I feel about the game when I finally play it. I'm cautiously optimistic.
As to your request for shows with female hosts, try out Starlit Citadel. I watched a couple of reviews of theirs last night and found them to be very informative. Their delivery seems more scripted than I'm used to, but I'll take dry and precise any day over obnoxious and scatterbrained.
Edit: It would appear they've given up doing reviews as of about 6 months ago.
the trouble with video reviews, is that it's a lot time and effort for something you don't like. I think Drive-Thru has talked about not wanting to put the effort into games they don't like.
Mina on BGG is a really good review, but yea after the death of Starlit a lot of voices are pretty similar.
Mina on BGG is a really good review, but yea after the death of Starlit a lot of voices are pretty similar.
I think this is a pretty good summary of the state of board game "celebrity reviewers". They're amateurs out of their depth, unaware of how to handle conflicts of interest, how to correctly identify paid promos/paid review material, how to be adequately critical.
When you have the designers of Kickstarter games flying out to give these reviewers hands-on previews, when you have "reviews" that don't correctly state they've been paid for, when you have these reviewers giving ridiculously positive (paid) previews for games with ridiculously dubious backgrounds or shaky legal positions... Meh?
Even before all the conflicts of interest & growth, it was usually pretty clear where the likes of Vasel & TDT would stand on a game... Theme? Ameritrashy? Dice? Yeah, they'll like it.
LunarKnite
Member
Woah. As much as I agree with reviewers needing to be more up-front with conflicts of interest and paid reviews/previews, etc, I wouldn't call them amateurs. I mean, if they're the amateurs, who the hell are the professionals? If we're talking dictionary-definition, a good amount of them are reviewers by profession. Most of the big names play hundreds of games per year, with that much experience they no doubt should be able to tell between a bad game and a good game objectively. Sure, they may not be formally trained to review games, but nobody is.
They all started as amateur podcasters/videocasters, that's what I mean. There's no need to blow it up like that.
There's people in this thread (and plenty of my friends) who play 100s of games a year. You don't need to play that many games to tell good/bad objectively...
But do you think the big name video reviewers tell you a bad game is a bad game these days? As opposed to presenting it nicely when their paid kickstarter preview game disappoints? If there weren't apparent conflicts of interest & points of dispute, there wouldn't be a near 50 page BGG thread discussing UndeadViking right now, for example.
I believe he meant amateur to mean exactly about not knowing how to deal with conflicts of interests and the like, not their actual ability as a journalist. That's how I read it, anyway.
Yeah the point is they started out as rank amateurs and almost never have any credentials or background in journalism or anything remotely close that might give them a sense of proper behavior and how to deal with potential conflicts or other sticky situations. They're completely just going with their gut. This isn't true of even most hobbyist outlets. Like video games most journalists will have a background or at minimum an editor with a background who can direct his writers accordingly, especially for the very top sites. BG is just so niche and 'amateur hour' that there's no such infrastructure in place.
Like Tom I think is of the view of disclose it once and then why do I have to bring it up every time. Then when he reviews or ranks Dice Tower Essentials games, he says that's OK because he wouldn't have put them in DTE if he didn't like them so there's no bias there. It's not really Serious Business -- it's more funny than anything, unless you actually trust these guys unequivocally to make purchasing choices. And really it's not an attack on them. I enjoy Dice Tower content a TON myself. It's just trying to explain why they seem so oblivious to these kinds of issues.
Like Tom I think is of the view of disclose it once and then why do I have to bring it up every time. Then when he reviews or ranks Dice Tower Essentials games, he says that's OK because he wouldn't have put them in DTE if he didn't like them so there's no bias there. It's not really Serious Business -- it's more funny than anything, unless you actually trust these guys unequivocally to make purchasing choices. And really it's not an attack on them. I enjoy Dice Tower content a TON myself. It's just trying to explain why they seem so oblivious to these kinds of issues.
toddhunter
Member
I'll be very interested to see if Quadropolis pops up in the top 20... Pride of place next to cosmic encounter after all.
I don't blame them for making a few deals though if that is what they are doing. They have put in the work and it probably helps them get things published down the track.
At the end of the day we just have to do the "buyer beware" thing.
Affeinvasion
Member
Also people like different things. I've brought this up before but it's a perfect case. Duel of Ages is one of Tom's Top 10 (maybe top 5) games. Now go look at it on BGG.
The fact that Tom likes Cry Havok so much doesn't mean he's all of the sudden a bad reviewer. He just likes a game that a lot of people don't like. Games are made for different audiences. In an industry so small, it is inevitable that the reviewers are going to get to know the designers, but who cares. Tom does a pretty good job of outlining the components and the basics of how to play in his videos. I can usually tell if I'll like it or not just from that.
I could accept criticizing some of his reviews if he didn't disclose things but he almost always does in reviews.
A top games list (that he does every single year) is for fun. It should not be held to the same standard as an actual review. Would you be upset if he put tic-tac-toe on his favorite games of all time?
The fact that Tom likes Cry Havok so much doesn't mean he's all of the sudden a bad reviewer. He just likes a game that a lot of people don't like. Games are made for different audiences. In an industry so small, it is inevitable that the reviewers are going to get to know the designers, but who cares. Tom does a pretty good job of outlining the components and the basics of how to play in his videos. I can usually tell if I'll like it or not just from that.
I could accept criticizing some of his reviews if he didn't disclose things but he almost always does in reviews.
A top games list (that he does every single year) is for fun. It should not be held to the same standard as an actual review. Would you be upset if he put tic-tac-toe on his favorite games of all time?
For what it's worth I know Tom has said that he does not do any kind of paid review or anything like that. I think he had said in a recent q&a that he had done paid coverage in the past but they don't anymore. He was basically saying that he loves games, so most of his reviews will be positive. I buy that and don't think there is any moneyhatting going on. That is arguably high risk for them too because of the backlash if it got out... There is certainly a conflict of interest when it comes to Dice Tower Essentials and things he is involved in (M&M), but it would be equally strange if he didn't love the games he is helping publish or help design. Some people won't know the relationship to the game, but I understand the possible overkill of him having to bring it up every time... We should all know not to trust a single reviewer though, and the best thing to do really is to diversify in the reviewers we trust (whether it's other reviewers, GAFfers, family, friends, etc).
Affeinvasion
Member
Does he even review the Dice Tower Essentials games? And aren't they already existing games? I thought DTE was just to reprint games that he thinks are already good.
nope, they're whatever old and new:
Pretty sure he's reviewed them. In his reviews I do think he mentions the affiliation, or at least that something is DTE. I don't think the guy is moneyhatted under the table or anything like that, absolutely not. More clumsiness about affiliation on account of inexperience at worst.
LunarKnite
Member
I just think the term in unsuited for the situation of board game reviewers. Maybe it's just me getting caught up in semantics (I'm a rules lawyer, after all...). Like I said before, I do think they could stand to disclose information like that, but I also have to realize that for many of them, their output is crazy high for the small operations they lead. Positivity abounds in their reviews because they do still pick and choose what games to review; there's simply not enough time to review everything. I don't doubt they accept money to review games quicker than others, but I don't think their moral integrity is to be questioned just because of that. If they review a bad game as good, there's some cause for concern, but I don't think there's been instances of that (where money was exchanged for a good review) which was not due to subjective tastes. Aside from the Undead Viking thing, which is why I've abstained from mentioning him as I don't know his full story.
Personally, I find the whole thing to be a rather moot point, compared to other media. With the exception of video games that come with demos or are free to start, there's so much information out there to discern whether or not a board game is good. Even then, the rest of the video game may not be up to par with what is shown in the specially crafted demo. But board games aren't like that. One google search for a released game will show you pretty much all the components and artwork so you can determine if it's to your taste. Rulebooks are readily available so you can know how it plays without reviewers being biased. With board games you can pretty much know everything there is to know about it short of playing the actual thing.
Personally, I find the whole thing to be a rather moot point, compared to other media. With the exception of video games that come with demos or are free to start, there's so much information out there to discern whether or not a board game is good. Even then, the rest of the video game may not be up to par with what is shown in the specially crafted demo. But board games aren't like that. One google search for a released game will show you pretty much all the components and artwork so you can determine if it's to your taste. Rulebooks are readily available so you can know how it plays without reviewers being biased. With board games you can pretty much know everything there is to know about it short of playing the actual thing.
On your first paragraph, I don't think anyone's said anything to the contrary? I certainly haven't, or at least haven't meant to. I totally don't think they should "review all games" or anything like that. I actually think if anything The Dice Tower reviews too many shit Target/mainstream games, rather than the other way around. Also as I said in pretty much every post, I absolutely don't think they're being nefarious about it or actively trying to deceive people.
But in response to your second para, I think it's all just legitimate observation regarding someone's potential conflicts. imo imo imo it's weird that you have your own "line" of games as a reviewer and then still actually review them and include them in your Top X lists. Or review games you've been paid to advise on. It would be outright laughable in nearly any other field, even video games. It's just funny is all. I'm neither hating nor fronting and Dice Tower will continue to get my clicks and KS support.
SapphiCine
Member
Tom comes across as enthusiastic to the point of it getting in the way of his critical thinking. That said, I find all of the popular Youtube reviewers to be lacking in terms of actual criticism. They are great for getting a rules overview and general impression but that is about it.
LunarKnite
Member
Like I mentioned, I think I was just hung up on the use of amateurs as I feel like that assumes professionals exist in the field when they are actually the closest ones you can even call a professional.
I also think it's a little strange, but at the same time, I don't think it matters. Nor do I think that the standards set by other fields necessarily have to apply to board games reviews as well.
Maybe I'm crazy here but I consume video reviews for one of two reasons, and neither is a persons actual opinion on a game.
1) Entertainment. This applies to something like Shut Up & Sit Down who are pretty creative and often hilarious with their writing and presentation
2) How to play the thing. The visual medium is the easiest way to learn the mechanics of that game.
And that is really all I need to know. I know what sort of stuff my group enjoys and seeing how it all comes together is again, the #1 reason why I subscribe to any review channel in the first place. If they actually like a game is useless to me. Hell, look at the varied opinions on this board alone. I think several games that people praise here are absolute dog shit and they probably have similar opinions of things I like. Why would I care if Tom Vasel actually likes a game?
On the other point, I don't think there's any chance in hell he's getting moneyhatted for positive reviews. If you've been following him for any length of time you'll know he's the David Koresh of the Cult of the New. He just likes new, fresh, shiny things.
1) Entertainment. This applies to something like Shut Up & Sit Down who are pretty creative and often hilarious with their writing and presentation
2) How to play the thing. The visual medium is the easiest way to learn the mechanics of that game.
And that is really all I need to know. I know what sort of stuff my group enjoys and seeing how it all comes together is again, the #1 reason why I subscribe to any review channel in the first place. If they actually like a game is useless to me. Hell, look at the varied opinions on this board alone. I think several games that people praise here are absolute dog shit and they probably have similar opinions of things I like. Why would I care if Tom Vasel actually likes a game?
On the other point, I don't think there's any chance in hell he's getting moneyhatted for positive reviews. If you've been following him for any length of time you'll know he's the David Koresh of the Cult of the New. He just likes new, fresh, shiny things.
toddhunter
Member
I must admit I didn't initially like their videos, but I've really been won over. Really glad for the OP recommending them.
Considering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuwWDve01-4 and the positioning of the box on the shelf, I think it is at least reasonable to pose the question. Also they are on youtube, so it is natural to assume the worst
SUSD has been on point his year for sure, both in production and analysis in most if their reviews. Quinns was a consultant on Mechs vs. Minions too, and I'd honestly eat my hat if they reviewed it, but then again he has an actual writing and journalism background. Come to think of it while I do have differing tastes, the SUSD guys are the only ones I trust 100% in the field.