Comply in what way? The officer was screaming at him to stop reaching for a gun he wasn't going for. He got out and put his hands up. Not sure why people are expecting him to be rational when the cops are threatening to kill him if he stays seated in the car.
why are people arguing about what he should or shouldn't do or about a gun that he didn't have in his hands and wasn't reaching for since his hands were up? the cop knew him. the cop knew he shot at cops. this was a 'gotcha!' moment. this was an execution. no judge, no jury.
These cops all seem so terrified, so far past the point that they can function as a police officer. If I saw a cop acting like that I don't know what I would do, our cops in Canada just have a completely different demeanor. They don't act like strung out crack heads screaming shit at you. I can totally understand why people don't respond properly to the commands. I know when someone is that amped up and scream at you, naturally your going to want to run or fight, its going to be hard to think or do anything. I would probable screaming back at them to calm the fuck down.
did you even watch the video? these cops didn't even ASK if they had weapons in the vehicle like they're supposed to. maybe if they had - they wouldn't have went straight into shitjustgotreal mode.
no clue why the cop is even in the passenger side first to begin with.
It doesn't seem all that current, just currently coming to the surface. This is not the first video I have seen like this as far as the way the police speak and act.
If you're lucky you'll get a paid vacation, adulation from your peers, family members and esteemed members of government before you become a local hero.
did you even watch the video? these cops didn't even ASK if they had weapons in the vehicle like they're supposed to. maybe if they had - they wouldn't have went straight into shitjustgotreal mode.
no clue why the cop is even in the passenger side first to begin with.
Why are are we acting like there is no context? Context matters. This is not an old lady with zero record complying with lawful police orders. This is a known felon with a gun, who has shot police already, who is not complying. Those things added up. It's suicide to have those factors and then continue to defy lawful orders. You don't make people with guns nervous.
Why are are we acting like there is no context? Context matters. This is not an old lady with zero record complying with lawful police orders. This is a known felon with a gun, who has shot police already, who is not complying. Those things added up. It's suicide to have those factors and then continue to defy lawful orders. You don't make people with guns nervous.
The guys fate was sealed the moment the car was stopped. There was nothing he could or couldn't do to save his life. But this thread is already full of posters doing mental back flips to justify the cop actions.
This was a man being put down like a dog in the streets. This was a execution plain and simple. The cop put himself in the position of judge jury and executioner. His past record or past arrest are fucking irrelevant because at the moment of his death his hands were up and he posed no threat to anyone.
why are people arguing about what he should or shouldn't do or about a gun that the cop already took? the cop knew him. the cop knew he shot at cops. this was a 'gotcha!' moment. this was an execution. no judge, no jury.
I don't think you watched the video. Nothing about that situation seemed premeditated. It literally came down to the officer running his feet and slipping trying to keep the passenger door shut while the passenger is trying to force himself out of the vehicle. This is all well after the officer violently threatened to killed him if he kept reaching, which he didn't even though the passenger continued to do something. I really don't know what you're supposed to do with somebody who not only has a very violent past, but is completely unlawful. There has to be a relationship both ways if we really want substantial change.
Why are are we acting like there is no context? Context matters. This is not an old lady with zero record complying with lawful police orders. This is a known felon with a gun, who has shot police already, who is not complying. Those things added up. It's suicide to have those factors and then continue to defy lawful orders. You don't make people with guns nervous.
the context is there are protocols in place for a clear reason and people keep dying because even the basic ones aren't followed
this guy went 0-100 in less than a minute and half. jamming a gun in someone's face and telling them that you're going to shoot them over and over isn't deescalating a situation at all. (it didn't even look like it was a situation until the cop went apeshit over the weapon he didn't even ask about)
it doesn't matter if the guy helping plan an assassination - deadly force isn't the first option. and if the cop was anywhere near as jumpy as he was acting, then he would've shot the guy the moment he opened the door.
If you're lucky you'll get a paid vacation, adulation from your peers, family members and esteemed members of government before you become a local hero.
-The Police officer gets justifiably tense because there's a gun.
-Tells him not to move, or he'll shoot, swearing blinding, shits happening with the door which opens.
-Unsure if Officer Opens it or Victim.
-Steps out
which in this scenario means AWAY from the gun
and gets shot -Entire time his hands are up.
I'm saying you can't shoot someone who has made no physically threatening movements.
Of course just the context of the footage, but would you say he needed to get shot? Did he seem threatening? Does having a gun in a glovebox, even if illegal, then make it okay for the police to end your life?
To be fair the cops were probably terrified as he had previously tried to kill cops. They don't want to die. Not saying it's good enough and the cops mishandled te situation but I really wish he had just stayed in the car ad obeyed their directions.
simple. step back and ask for the hands out of the car - a mirror image of what the other cop was doing on the driver's side for starters. you have a clear view of hands, and the weapon. done.
too bad it wasn't possible because of the gun being jammed right in the guy's face...
Even if his hands were up he still forced his way out of the vehicle. You can't just do a bunch of dangerous shit, and then try to put your hands up at the very last second.
To be fair the cops were probably terrified as he had previously tried to kill cops. They don't want to die. Not saying it's good enough and the cops mishandled te situation but I really wish he had just stayed in the car ad obeyed their directions.
What would have happened if he stayed in the car? They were already claiming he was reaching for a gun while he was sitting. And threatening to kill him. If they shot him standing with his hands up, what makes you think they wouldn't have shot him sitting in the car with a gun within his reach?
^exactly. the more i look at this the more i think the cop planned to shoot him in his seat after making enough of a scene to bullshit any dashcam observer.
Is there a scenario where a police officer can reasonably shoot a suspect without there being a clear and present danger to the officer?
You could argue that the suspect clearly disobeyed direct commands to remain seated but regardless, the officers were not in any clear danger.If the suspect had ran or lunged, a case could possibly be made, but it doesn't seem like that happened.
I thought that was going to happen on the left side, not the right. That went down way too fast. If I'm being threatened, have my hands up and apparently I'm still "reaching for something" with my hands up then I'm gonna assume I'm already fucking dead.
It doesn't matter. All cops are supposed to be robots of justice with no emotion, fear, anxiety, etc...not real people with families, problems, and so on. Instead, we are getting racist cold blooded murderers and luckily we have these cameras to prove it.
He got out of the vehicle with his hands up. As others have said, having a dude scream at you, telling he will kill you while waiving a gun in your face does not usually result in calm, rational decisions by most people - it usually results in fight or flight. The officer was screaming about the gun in the glove box, so the dude probably wanted to get away from that and as far away from the situation as possible.
It's necessary to apply force to the door to exit a vehicle*, so I guess you're technically correct.
*Unless police have torn the door off, like when police rammed that guy's truck and then shot it up for the crime of driving a truck while they were looking for a (bald, different race) guy in a (completely different) truck in LA a while back.
At 1:40 is the passenger trying to get out of the car and him and the officer are fighting over the door? Either that or it looks like the officer himself was struggling to open the door. From the transcript it said that the passenger had said something to the effect of "I am coming out with my hands raised", which is hard to hear on the video, but the cop says "no you're not" which leads me to believe there may have been a struggle.
Is there a scenario where a police officer can reasonably shoot a suspect without there being a clear and present danger to the officer?
You could argue that the suspect clearly disobeyed direct commands to remain seated but regardless, the officers were not in any clear danger.If the suspect had ran or lunged, a case could possibly be made, but it doesn't seem like that happened.
The main issue here is that people seem to forget that deadly force should only be used in deadly situations, and that taking a life should only be done when it is a necessity.
He was told to get out of the car before being told to not move. Obviously you'd assume that the latter instruction would apply, but when you have a gun pointed at your face, logic goes out of the window and he might have assumed that if he got out and away from the weapon with hands in the air to show that he wasn't a threat then things would die down. Obviously that didn't happen. I wouldn't say this is an execution or any of that, but a situation whereby a cop lost control and was all too trigger happy. The cop should have stepped back if he felt that the guy was getting too close, at the end of the day he had his gun pointed at someone who had their hands in the air, should be clear who had the upper hand here.
He got out of the vehicle with his hands up. As others have said, having a dude scream at you, telling he will kill you while waiving a gun in your face does not usually result in calm, rational decisions by most people - it usually results in fight or flight. The officer was screaming about the gun in the glove box, so the dude probably wanted to get away from that and as far away from the situation as possible.
At 1:41 the officer repeats "No you're not! No you're not! No you're not!" as he holds the door of the car with 1 hand while the passenger continues his attempt to exit the vehicle. Once the officer is no longer able to keep the door shut, the door flies open. That is called forced.
So he CLEARLY has his hands visible and is clearly just panicking and wants to lay on the ground to show he means no harm. Why do they use LETHAL force again?
People who think like that are scum. What is the point of our prison system if people think that ex-convicts can be killed without consequence when they paid their debt to society, and, are at the moment, doing nothing wrong?
So the cop opens the door, and I'm guessing the guy who was already nervous acted on impulse and got out like he thought he was supposed to, hands up, cops shoot him.
Even if his hands were up he still forced his way out of the vehicle. You can't just do a bunch of dangerous shit, and then try to put your hands up at the very last second.
The penalty for noncompliance, i'm sure you'll be surprised to know, is not, incidentally, death.
No clear and imminent danger either, fwiw.
Unjustified use of force, murder. Officer was already thinking of killing him before he even moved. So nice that he made sure to verbalize his thoughts.
At 1:41 the officer repeats "No you're not! No you're not! No you're not!" as he holds the door of the car with 1 hand while the passenger continues his attempt to exit the vehicle. Once the officer is no longer able to keep the door shut, the door flies open. That is called forced.
The cop was opening the door, not the passenger. Not quite sure how you interpret the cop yanking his body backwards in a pull motion as an attempt to keep the door shut. Once the door was open, the passenger got out, probably because he thought he was supposed to get up because the officer opened the door.
The driver was illegally possessing the handgun, not the passenger Neither offense should result in that person's death anyways when he has his hands up.
I don't think you watched the video. Nothing about that situation seemed premeditated. It literally came down to the officer running his feet and slipping trying to keep the passenger door shut while the passenger is trying to force himself out of the vehicle. This is all well after the officer violently threatened to killed him if he kept reaching, which he didn't even though the passenger continued to do something. I really don't know what you're supposed to do with somebody who not only has a very violent past, but is completely unlawful. There has to be a relationship both ways if we really want substantial change.
The main issue here is that people seem to forget that deadly force should only be used in deadly situations, and that taking a life should only be done when it is a necessity.
Ultimately, I do feel sympathy for the cops even though they also made an irrational decision which lead to someone's death. The suspect should not have exited the vehicle, that's pretty clear. Had he remained absolutely still, maybe they wouldn't have shot him. I'm giving the officer the benefit of the doubt that he was also acting under duress when he opened fire in a scenario that was not life threatening. But overall, the officer is in the position of power and the higher moral authority in this scenario and should therefore be made responsible for avoidable loss of life.
Don't worry guys, we can be sure the officers involved won't be indicted by the Grand Jury. True justice for the boys in blue, NEVER FORGET, 9/11 :cryingeagle.gif:
