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[yurinka]

I wasn't confident about Capcom outsourcing games to western studios, since Bionic Commando Rearmed was the only western developed game that deserved the Capcom game.

Just played yesterday Dead Rising 2 Case Zero, and it's awesome. Now I'm confident they can balance properly the western outsourced development with Capcom Japan production & game design, they are doing it right.

So if they give latest version of MT Framework to Ninja Theory, DMC4 code + assets, and Capcom Japan's DMC5 game design, I'm pretty sure Ninja Theory will do a great job.

Heavenly Sword was a pretty awesome game, its only main flaws were low framerate and screen tearing, and maybe needed a bit more of gameplay depth. If Capcom gives provides them an engine (like Capcom did in outsourced games like SF4 or MvsC3), and provides them Capcom Japan production and game design support (like they did in all AAA games outsourced to western devs), it will end in a pretty awesome game.

 

[jett]

So if they give latest version of MT Framework to Ninja Theory, DMC4 code + assets, and Capcom Japan's DMC5 game design, I'm pretty sure Ninja Theory will do a great job.

so...what exactly would be the point of Ninja Theory then?

 

[yurinka]

so...what exactly would be the point of Ninja Theory then?

Basically to port DMC 4 to the new engine version and to produce art content for new enemies, new characters, new weapons, new movements, new stages art & level design, cutscenes, music, etc. Heavenly Sword still remains today as a really pretty game.

In addition to that, they can teach Capcom about motion capture tech, acting, etc.

And also they can provide new features to the game, like on-line multiplayer (please, I want both co-op and versus).

 

[ArjanN]

I wasn't confident about Capcom outsourcing games to western studios, since Bionic Commando Rearmed was the only western developed game that deserved the Capcom game.

Just played yesterday Dead Rising 2 Case Zero, and it's awesome. Now I'm confident they can balance properly the western outsourced development with Capcom Japan production & game design, they are doing it right.

So if they give latest version of MT Framework to Ninja Theory, DMC4 code + assets, and Capcom Japan's DMC5 game design, I'm pretty sure Ninja Theory will do a great job.

Heavenly Sword was a pretty awesome game, its only main flaws were low framerate and screen tearing, and maybe needed a bit more of gameplay depth. If Capcom gives provides them an engine (like Capcom did in outsourced games like SF4 or MvsC3), and provides them Capcom Japan production and game design support (like they did in all AAA games outsourced to western devs), it will end in a pretty awesome game.

Finally some sense in this thread.

Scores in the 70s somewhere, sales... ehnn, it's releasing the same day as Castlevania. One of the two is going to eat the other or they'll just kill each other.

I'm expecting better reviews for Enslaved than that, although sales-wise it might bomb.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Another thread of useless, ignorant, and judgmental comments based on nothing.

Heavenly Sword had a great engine considering first generation game on a complicated system. I still look at it and think it's a beautiful game, my main complaint is how they did the shadows. Again, early, and HS wasn't a "terrible" game unless you like to exaggerate much. I enjoyed it and the press gave it a 79%-80% average which is not a horrible score.

How much do we know about how Enslaved is going to play? I personally think the texture and and anti-aliasing looks dodgy but at least the anti-aliasing seems to have been improved since a few months ago.

If/when DMC is revealed to be developed by Capcom, how much guidance and quality control do you think Capcom is going to have over its very valuable IP? It's anyone's guess but I'd wager quite a lot.

Seriously, expand your minds just a few inches and a whole new universe will open up.

There's been so much served crow on this forum it's ridiculous yet people don't learn. Lets see if it turns out great or shit. It's possible to discuss a forthcoming game without condemning it before even seeing a glimpse of gameplay.

You're coming from a different direction from most people here because you liked Heavenly Sword a fair bit. For those of us that found Heavenly Sword (and Kung Fu Chaos) to be lacking, the idea of Ninja Theory developing it sits about as well as the idea of Sonic Team developing it.

Expand your mind to understand each of us values certain aspects differently and some of those aspects are locked as soon as the developer is announced, and you might find there's a whole world of human beings out there who are not clones of Thunder Bear, the guy who dislikes games for being too babby.

 

[panda21]

Just played yesterday Dead Rising 2 Case Zero, and it's awesome. Now I'm confident they can balance properly the western outsourced development with Capcom Japan production & game design, they are doing it right.

So if they give latest version of MT Framework to Ninja Theory, DMC4 code + assets, and Capcom Japan's DMC5 game design, I'm pretty sure Ninja Theory will do a great job.

ninja theory didnt make dead rising 2 case zero.

also that other capcom western developed game didnt turn out so good (bionic commando) so its a pretty of a stretch to say that because one did, all of them will regardless of the developer

oh and i dont think they actually let the western devs use mt framework

 

[Varth]

I wasn't confident about Capcom outsourcing games to western studios, since Bionic Commando Rearmed was the only western developed game that deserved the Capcom game.

Just played yesterday Dead Rising 2 Case Zero, and it's awesome. Now I'm confident they can balance properly the western outsourced development with Capcom Japan production & game design, they are doing it right.

Same boat. Only difference is my trust comes from DR2 itself (didn't play Case Zero). And even after Enslaved, I think Ninja Theory are a very talented bunch, just lacking the kick to propel them to greater things. Maybe some tighter focus, a good producer would help.

 

[Sipowicz]

this is going to be devil may cry 5

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

this is going to be devil may cry 5

Let's hope so

 

[ShockingAlberto]

this is going to be devil may cry 5

Whoa

Now that's a hell of a theory

It might be hard to convince everyone else, though

 

[Furret]

I wasn't confident about Capcom outsourcing games to western studios, since Bionic Commando Rearmed was the only western developed game that deserved the Capcom game.

Just played yesterday Dead Rising 2 Case Zero, and it's awesome. Now I'm confident they can balance properly the western outsourced development with Capcom Japan production & game design, they are doing it right.

So if they give latest version of MT Framework to Ninja Theory, DMC4 code + assets, and Capcom Japan's DMC5 game design, I'm pretty sure Ninja Theory will do a great job.

Heavenly Sword was a pretty awesome game, its only main flaws were low framerate and screen tearing, and maybe needed a bit more of gameplay depth. If Capcom gives provides them an engine (like Capcom did in outsourced games like SF4 or MvsC3), and provides them Capcom Japan production and game design support (like they did in all AAA games outsourced to western devs), it will end in a pretty awesome game.

So the only flaws with Heavenly Sword were the graphics and the gameplay?

I will never understand why Capcom, one of the best and most experienced developers in the world, are dicking around with these second rate (and often third rate) Western developers.

But then you could say that of most Japanese publishers nowadays.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

So the only flaws with Heavenly Sword were the graphics and the gameplay?

I will never understand why Capcom, one of the best and most experienced developers in the world, are dicking around with these second rate (and often third rate) Western developers.

But then you could say that of most Japanese publishers nowadays.

First rate developers are expensive.

Yeah, maybe you can get Bioware to make your RPG, but that's going to be fucking expensive, so why outsource in the first place?

 

[Monty Mole]

I'd like to think that NT is reading this thread feeling they must do their very best to prove us all wrong. Unfortunately Tameem Antoniades has an arrogance that can be seen from space.

 

[eso76]

the "DR2 was outsourced too and it's good, so DMC5 in Ninja Theory's hands could still be good" doesn't hold up imo.

DR was a very "western" title already, it never required the fine tuning and balancing DMC combat system has, nor it required the japanese 'touch' in character design, story, art design etc.

Letting Ninja Theory handle DMC would be like having Namco developing the next Halo, i'm not sure they can really 'get' it.
DMC4 fell short of perfection mostly because of level design and repetitiveness, but that's all they need to fix for 5. Changing devs at this point doesn't make sense, and even then there are much better candidates than Ninja Theory (Team Ninja, for example).

I would be more comfortable with NT working on a new IP, or an old Capcom franchise which hasn't seen a 3d adaptation yet. From what i've seen of Enslaved, i think NT could do a decent job with a Strider sequel, for example, but they would need to dump UE3.

 

[Furret]

First rate developers are expensive.

Yeah, maybe you can get Bioware to make your RPG, but that's going to be fucking expensive, so why outsource in the first place?

The latter was my point really. What is the current Japanese obsession with outsourcing? Why do they suddenly feel, after four sequels, that they can't make a Devil May Cry game and have to get in some Western developer with a less than stellar track record to do it for them?

If they want their games to appear more Western then surely the same effect could be achieved more simply and cheaply by simply hiring a Western script writer and letting the existing internal teams get on with the game itself.

The bizarro plots and terrible dialogue/acting are the only real problems with selling a Japanese game to a Western audience - if the gameplay is good enough.

 

[PowderedToast]

capcom should just put the serious on hiatus if they don't believe they can develop it in-house. as disappointing as that is, it's being realistic. DMC4 was woefully uncreative and it's clear they've realised that.

then again that makes zero sense from a business standpoint. but ninja theory is the best they could choose? really? i seriously hope not.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The latter was my point really. What is the current Japanese obsession with outsourcing? Why do they suddenly feel, after four sequels, that they can't make a Devil May Cry game and have to get in some Western developer with a less than stellar track record to do it for them?

If they want their games to appear more Western then surely the same effect could be achieved more simply and cheaply by simply hiring a Western script writer and letting the existing internal teams get on with the game itself.

The bizarro plots and terrible dialogue/acting are the only real problems with selling a Japanese game to a Western audience - if the gameplay is good enough.

Here's the thing about Japanese developers: They don't understand what is different about Western development. They know a difference is there, they can chart out some mechanical differences, but they don't get why Modern Warfare and Halo sell in the tens of millions and their games do not.

So they assume, in this as in all things, context is king. It must be something unique to the culture of western development! They must train their workers differently or come to work to do something creative that they just haven't considered in Japan.

From that thought process, it makes sense (for them) why they go to western outsourcing rather than just contract out a few comic book writers.

 

[SolidSnakex]

but ninja theory is the best they could choose? really? i seriously hope not.

Which other Western third party makes games in a similar style to DMC? It seems like NT was their only choice.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Which other Western third party makes games in a similar style to DMC? It seems like NT was their only choice.

oh oh oh mercurysteam

 

[Shito]

After Valkyria 3 for the PSP, I think I couldn't take a new DMC by Ninja Theory.
This TGS starts BAD, and it hasn't even started yet...

 

[bbjvc]

So, if Enslave turns out to be a superb game, will you willing to give DMC5 a try?

I think I will

 

[ShockingAlberto]

So, if Enslave turns out to be a superb game, will you willing to give DMC5 a try?

I think I will

I mean, I am going to try it regardless

But this is a massive sink of time and money and could either be so good that I will never get the old DMC back again (least bad option), mediocre, or so bad that Capcom puts the series to bed.

So I'd rather they try and fix what was wrong with DMC4 than reboot a series because that's the in thing to do now.

 

[PowderedToast]

Which other Western third party makes games in a similar style to DMC? It seems like NT was their only choice.

good point. i didn't realise there was such a dearth of western devs for this genre until i properly thought about it. what a shame all-round, the fact that capcom feel the need to do this in the first place is depressing enough.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

So, if Enslave turns out to be a superb game, will you willing to give DMC5 a try?

I think I will

I'll give a try regardless. Demos are marvelously free, after all. But I'm not expecting much. If Enslaved turned out to be fuck-awesome, then at least there'd be some reason to think they could pull it off.

 

[Furret]

Here's the thing about Japanese developers: They don't understand what is different about Western development. They know a difference is there, they can chart out some mechanical differences, but they don't get why Modern Warfare and Halo sell in the tens of millions and their games do not.

So they assume, in this as in all things, context is king. It must be something unique to the culture of western development! They must train their workers differently or come to work to do something creative that they just haven't considered in Japan.

From that thought process, it makes sense (for them) why they go to western outsourcing rather than just contract out a few comic book writers.

That probably is the thought process, but there are so many obvious problems with it I can't believe they're still all making the same mistakes.

Just for starters:

a) Halo and Modern Warfare are made by top tier studios, Japanese publishers only ever employ second tier at best

b) The most popular Japanese games (Mario, Pokemon, etc.) are absolutely nothing like Western games - implying that they should be trying to emphasis the differences between their approach not narrow them.

c) Whatever the actual logic of their decisions this generation (your theory sounds sensible, but who knows for sure) it clearly isn't working so why do they insist on continuing it? With every third rate game they put out trying to appeal to a Western audience they're losing experience (and presumably staff) with the skills and styles of games that made their internal studios, and thereby their company, successful in the first place.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What's weird is not that Capcom outsources, but what they choose to outsource

Squad-based online multiplayer-focused shooter? Develop internally!

Japanese 3D beat 'em up? Outsource!

 

[bbjvc]

it is wired cause NT's games to date all partly based or inspired by chinese methodology or tales, witch is rare for western studios to do so(although as a chinese I found those game's character design/ story/ dialogue staff really bizarre.:lol ) and all of sudden they want to develop a japanese invented western background game. oh dear!

 

[Future]

I liked the weird Japanese style that was painted all over DMC. Heavenly sword and enslaved (from e3 demo) are entirely different beasts in style and presentation. Not to mention combat systems. I mean if they were relatively deep like DMC I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. But damn, not even close. No evidence that ninja theory gets combat any more than say Lucas arts and star wars apprentice.

Disappointed if this is true

 

[Cartman86]

well there is nothing wrong with Yuji Shimomura work ( btw he is the same guy who did the awesome crazy cinematic for Bayonetta ) in DMC4 he just didn't have the chance to actually do his thing because of DMC4 story and that abomination Nero.

I will take Yuji Shimomura's crazy corny cutscenes over the the long overacting crap of Andy Serkis anytime.




Heavenly Sword combat and countering system was complete and utter trash ,and the team thought an action game without jump button is a good idea for some unknown reasons , so no it's not just the engine that is the problem here.

What!??!?! Seriously? Not only do I disagree that his acting is crap, but long? Some of the best acting in videogames ever (in a flawed game) and you dumb on it? Plus the early stuff from Enslaved looks even better.

 

[Orobi]

*Please please please* Ninja Theory: don't touch Devil May Cry franchise *please please please*