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[zkylon]

oh fuck as a fellow south american: not an argentinian! fuck!

agreed

 

[Fenderputty]

LOL what the fuck does it matter WHAT someone is selling if you're supporting something that the 0.00001% in power of that organization have done if they've been a part of some malicious act.

The oh so high and mighty keyboard activists keep saying "well there's no reason to support them at all because of that 0.000001%" Yet if you give me a list of every product or item you own, I can point out some horrible human rights violation they've done or covered up, that you probably already knew about, but didn't bother you a bit. Wonder how many people here smoke and give money to the biggest cancer producing product in human history so they can keep getting generations down the line hooked until they die from it?

Meanwhile you're generalizing people like the run of the mill priest who's probably put in more work for the poor in a month than you have your entire life.

Damn it's so easy to tell other people how to live their life and where to put their time because of what that 0.00001 power do. As long as it's not me right?

You're asking why I don't hold Apple to the same moral standards that I hold a fucking religion? Are you serious?

I didn't generalize anyone. I said clearly that the vast majority of the members of the Chruch and the priests disagree with pedophilia. I understand that. I don't understand how you all continue to be members of such an organization. It's not like politics / war either. Leveing ones country for another is a quite a few levels of difficulty over swapping denominations.

FYI ... the priest wasn't a "run of the mil priest" and said his shit during the Sandusky case. He sympathised with fucking Sandusky.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...sexual-abuse-survivors-network-jerry-sandusky

 

[dacuk]

So, what are you doing in this thread?...

 

[Devolution]

124 victims over 40 years and I'm guessing most were multiple offenders. There are over 400,000 priests worldwide, not counting how many may have served from 1950 until now that have passed.

I would like to see a total incident number, but I'm going to guess it's not up to even a 1% total rate.

Child rape is only important if it's pervasive enough for you even though they covered it up all the same and the priests who did it as well as the ones who played switcheroo were all sheltered. You're making yourself look real good here.

 

[Monocle]

124 victims over 40 years and I'm guessing most were multiple offenders. There are over 400,000 priests worldwide, not counting how many may have served from 1950 until now that have passed.

I would like to see a total incident number, but I'm going to guess it's not up to even a 1% total rate.

Because all instances of child rape are reported. It's not like the Church has engaged in a massive campaign of subterfuge and intimidation centered on this specific issue.

Don't defend child rapists and child rape enablers. It's despicable.

 

[GillianSeed79]

This is 100% wrong. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Catholicism is not Protestantism. You can be Unitarian, Lutheran, Baptist, Full Gospel, etc. without belonging to a church.

You are not a Catholic without the sacraments.

Hell,the entire idea of the Mass is oriented around the three: liturgy of the word, the liturgy of the eucharist and communion. There's a reason two thirds of mass is effectively oriented around the eucharist - it's THE critical symbolic rite of the Catholic faith.

And yet all these are still, at their heart, rituals. I look at the present state of the Catholic church much in the same light as I see the synagogue in the story of Jesus healing the blind man. Jesus, at least the scripture says, healed a blind man on the Sabbath. He got in trouble because under the laws set forth by Moses you weren't supposed to do any work on the Sabbath. Jesus still healed the blind man because, obviously, not healing him just because it was the Sabbath was stupid and he tried to explain later that the word of God was the living word, i.e. it wasn't something just set in stone but something that was alive. The blind man was excommunicated from the synagogue in the story btw.

Part of the problem I have with the Catholic church is it's utter dogmatic view of ritual sacraments and just rituals in general - i.e. see the cult of worship surrounding the Pope.

I would even go so far as to argue that the ritual of the sacraments lessen the ideas behind them. I grew up Catholic, so, for me, the liturgy of the word consisted of a really old priest reading brief excerpts from the bible in a monotone tone followed by mindless refrains from the congregation. Same with the blessing of the Eucharist and the Eucharist itself. Two thirds of Mass shouldn't be spent on ritualistic nonsense. It should be spent talking about the teachings of Christ and how the church can help those in need in their communities. You know, Sermon on the mount stuff.

I'm not even saying all Catholics are bad people. I honestly think more good work is done outside of mass by Catholics than actual mass, which, to many people, seems like pointless rituals.

I honesty feel sorry for people who believe being Catholic means simply going to mass and observing the sacraments. When Jesus broke bread with the disciples at the last supper and said do this in memory of me, he didn't say you have to do this every Sunday, as well as get a priest to read the bible, bless the bread and you have to confess your sins to the priest and go through confirmation when you are 13 or else you can't be a part of my church.

 

[Devolution]

Because all instances of child rape are reported. It's not like the Church has engaged in a massive campaign of subterfuge and intimidation centered on this specific issue.

Don't defend child rapists and child rape enablers. It's despicable.

It's only a big deal if everybody rapin'.

 

[Monocle]

Child rape is only important if it's pervasive enough for you even though they covered it up all the same and the priests who did it as well as the ones who played switcheroo were all sheltered. You're making yourself look real good here.

You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette I guess.

In this metaphor the eggs are children's assholes and the omelette is the world's salvation. In case you wondered.

 

[TheNatural]

Because all instances of child rape are reported. It's not like the Church has engaged in a massive campaign of subterfuge and intimidation centered on this specific issue.

Don't defend child rapists and child rape enablers. It's despicable.

I'm not defending anyone, don't put words in my fucking mouth. My whole focus is on people generalizing ground level individuals of the "church" and making everyone in that category the same. They're not.

 

[Fenderputty]

The Church hasn't said that it endorses the child abuse so to me it feels like they're drawing a line in a way that doesn't make much sense, the catholic church is the one true church for them I don't see how the ages change anything. I mean I'm not a catholic so I understand why someone would leave but I understand why someone would stay in.

I don't. Though I'm probably not a good person to ask. I understand why someone might have faith in God, but I don't understand how people follow religion. They're so obviously flawed by man.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

124 victims over 40 years and I'm guessing most were multiple offenders. There are over 400,000 priests worldwide, not counting how many may have served from 1950 until now that have passed.

I would like to see a total incident number, but I'm going to guess it's not up to even a 1% total rate.

I think the church itself has investigated 3,000 cases, but I don't have faith in that number since in the US alone there were 3,000 allegations of sexual assualt.

But yea just 3,000 kids molested, no big deal.

 

[TheNatural]

Child rape is only important if it's pervasive enough for you even though they covered it up all the same and the priests who did it as well as the ones who played switcheroo were all sheltered. You're making yourself look real good here.

Yeah keep twisting words to your own agenda. It's what you do best around here. I'm not the one who generalized a group of a fucking billion people as pedophile supporters. You did.

 

[Monocle]

I'm not defending anyone, don't put words in my fucking mouth. My whole focus is on people generalizing ground level individuals of the "church" and making everyone in that category the same. They're not.

In doing so you're minimizing horrific crimes. It's not a good look.

 

[Devolution]

I'm not defending anyone, don't put words in my fucking mouth. My whole focus is on people generalizing ground level individuals of the "church" and making everyone in that category the same. They're not.

Your mistake is you're taking criticisms of an institution as vilifying all Catholics. So maybe it's you who should stop putting words in people's mouths. And people have every right to question Catholics who consistently give this institution money.

 

[Freezie KO]

It's only a big deal if everybody rapin'.

 

[TheNatural]

In doing so you're minimizing horrific crimes. It's not a good look.

I'm not minimizing fucking shit. If it were up to me, I would take every pedophile and put them to death. How's that? I could give a fuck less about those people who do that. Sandusky would be frying in an electric chair if it were up to me.

I'm not going to sit here and blame every priest who ever stepped foot into the church and did good and had nothing to do with that stuff or any control over it though.

 

[Devolution]

Yeah keep twisting words to your own agenda. It's what you do best around here. I'm not the one who generalized a group of a fucking billion people as pedophile supporters. You did.

I questioned why people who have a problem with the Church would continue giving it money. It's a valid criticism. I did not say they are okay with pedophilia and child rape. You're the one putting words in people's mouths so stop misrepresenting my posts.

 

[teruterubozu]

Your mistake is you're taking criticisms of an institution as vilifying all Catholics. So maybe it's you who should stop putting words in people's mouths. And people have every right to question Catholics who consistently give this institution money.

eh, we can question those who give money, but most of the time you'll end up at some lonely old lady with hazy ideas about what's good and bad.

 

[TheNatural]

Your mistake is you're taking criticisms of an institution as vilifying all Catholics. So maybe it's you who should stop putting words in people's mouths. And people have every right to question Catholics who consistently give this institution money.

The church's system of secrecy and being above the law is why it was so easy to abuse people for centuries and why it still is. And people put money in the coffers. So no, the entire thing has to be criticized.

Your words not mine. You do the same shit every thread - generalize a giant ass group of people as all the same and then backtrack at your convenience.

 

[Devolution]

Your words not mine. You do the same shit every thread - generalize a giant ass group of people as all the same and then backtrack at your convenience.

The entire thing being people who give money to an establishment that does ill. What exactly are you trying to say? That I think all Catholics are pedophile endorsers?

 

[Jackpot]

124 victims over 40 years and I'm guessing most were multiple offenders. There are over 400,000 priests worldwide, not counting how many may have served from 1950 until now that have passed.

I would like to see a total incident number, but I'm going to guess it's not up to even a 1% total rate.

um, 124 out of 400,000 only holds true if not a single priest outside of Belgium raped a child. As the investigation only covered Belgium I don't know why you were expecting them to mention crimes in other countries.

Either way, EVERY SINGLE CHURCH HAD A PAEDO ON STAFF. Think about it. That means every clergyman worked with a paedophile. Imagine if every small office in the country had a paedo working there preying on people related to the company in some way. It would be viewed as an epidemic. How could they all claim not to have known? How could no one have not seen anything?

 

[TheNatural]

The entire thing being people who give money to an establishment that does ill. What exactly are you trying to say? That I think all Catholics are pedophile endorsers?

Weren't you the one bitching at me once about smokers rights before? I'm guessing you smoke, or used to. So good on you, I guess Catholics support pedophiles, and you support getting kids hooked on something that will eventually kill them.

 

[Devolution]

Weren't you the one bitching at me once about smokers rights before? I'm guessing you smoke, or used to. So good on you, I guess Catholics support pedophiles, and you support getting kids hooked on something that will eventually kill them.

Way to flail about because you reached way too far about what I posted.

 

[TCRS]

The entire thing being people who give money to an establishment that does ill. What exactly are you trying to say? That I think all Catholics are pedophile endorsers?

Except that the institution in itself is not neccessarily evil.. people in that institution did bad things, sure. That doesn't make the whole thing evil.

We had that one already, we're going in circles.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Your words not mine. You do the same shit every thread - generalize a giant ass group of people as all the same and then backtrack at your convenience.

supporting pedophiles =/= being a pedophile

 

[ComputerMKII]

According to Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi, the pope is to be referred to as simply Francis, not Francis I. Could a mod correct the thread title, please?

 

[Freezie KO]

Weren't you the one bitching at me once about smokers rights before? I'm guessing you smoke, or used to. So good on you, I guess Catholics support pedophiles, and you support getting kids hooked on something that will eventually kill them.

She said the institution of the Catholic Church supports pedophiles. If she gave money to the smoking lobby, that might be more analogous.

 

[Fenderputty]

I questioned why people who have a problem with the Church would continue giving it money. It's a valid criticism. I did not say they are okay with pedophilia and child rape. You're the one putting words in people's mouths so stop misrepresenting my posts.

Bingo.

eh, we can question those who give money, but most of the time you'll end up at some lonely old lady with hazy ideas about what's good and bad.

This is my Italian grandmother. I understand older people though. It becomes harder to break tradition the longer it's been practiced. Younger Catholics who choose to igonore the Churches actions however ...

I mean ... my grandmother was told by a priest that if she didn't stick a feeding tube down my dying grandfathers throat, she would go to hell. She didn't even blink. Thankfully my grandfoather signed a do not resuscitate form.

 

[Angry Fork]

Are popes college educated in anything useful? Like do they know anything about the real world besides what's in the bible. I still don't know exactly what they do.

 

[TheNatural]

Way to flail about because you reached way too far about what I posted.

What is the difference between you generalizing a giant ass group of people and telling ones who had no part of pedophilia what they should do with their money, and someone telling you what you should do with your money because something you give your money to could end up supporting something bad?

 

[Gold_Loot]

This thread took a massive turn for the worse.

There is "church" and there are people within the "church",and with a religion that houses multiple millions of people, well, this kind of thing is bound to happen. Fact is, many good things have come from said "church".

Not everything you see in a movie or read on the internet is truth. There are bad people in this world, even in good places.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Are popes college educated in anything useful? Like do they know anything about the real world besides what's in the bible. I still don't know exactly what they do.

I believe this new one was a chemist.

 

[LQX]

Reminds me of Woody Allen in that picture.

But only one is a pervert.

 

[TheNatural]

She said the institution of the Catholic Church supports pedophiles. If she gave money to the smoking lobby, that might be more analogous.

Weird, never knew when they took up collection it didn't go to things like charity, but to the Sandusky and priest pedophile retirement fund.

 

[Monocle]

I'm not minimizing fucking shit. If it were up to me, I would take every pedophile and put them to death. How's that? I could give a fuck less about those people who do that. Sandusky would be frying in an electric chair if it were up to me.

I'm not going to sit here and blame every priest who ever stepped foot into the church and did good and had nothing to do with that stuff or any control over it though.

Nobody's blaming every priest, and yet it's hardly unreasonable to say that it's wrong to support an organization that has gone to the greatest lengths to protect itself rather than pursue justice for the victims it has produced. To protest that every priest isn't a rapist is to miss the point completely. You don't excise a cancer by saying nice things about the parts that aren't afflicted.

 

[IceCold]

I questioned why people who have a problem with the Church would continue giving it money. It's a valid criticism. I did not say they are okay with pedophilia and child rape. You're the one putting words in people's mouths so stop misrepresenting my posts.

I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the money that's given is for the local establishment. So unless the local priest is a known pedo, I don't see what's so bad about people supporting their local church. Most Catholic churches are filled with old people anyways. At that point they've invested too much in their beliefs and cognitive dissonance kicks in when they hear about such scandals. Doesn't mean they support pedophilia or the bad side of the Church (believe in or not there's a good side to it).

 

[Ether_Snake]

What a HORRIBLE choice, holy shit lol.

Same bad decision as with Benedict. They think it can help slow the secularization of south America. Totally uncharismatic, old, same problems as before. Wow. They should have at least gone for the Brazilian guy if they were going to do this.

This choice won't last long. I'm calling it. Five years from now and we got another pope.

 

[EightBitNate]

I voted for McCain

 

[Rayis]

I'm not even mad at the anti-gay positions they spout, the church has always been like that, and it's not going to change unless we get a particularly accepting pope that could change people's minds, but I doubt it, regardless congrats to that new pope

 

[el retorno]

The entire thing being people who give money to an establishment that does ill.

Don't pay taxes, don't give to any charities that have every done something wrong, don't buy any products from a company that has bad working conditions or has had a rapist on their staff?

you can't just withdraw from everything in the world and say "no, you need to change before I can give my money to you". You can fight for change will still giving money, its not like all your tithes goes to protecting rapists, they do help people you know? A crap ton of their money comes from real estate and assets they hold not from tithes.

 

[Devolution]

What is the difference between you generalizing a giant ass group of people and telling ones who had no part of pedophilia what they should do with their money, and someone telling you what you should do with your money because something you give your money to could end up supporting something bad?

What does someone's right to smoke a cancer stick have to do with this conversation and why did you bring it up? You could not flail harder and miss my damn point. I'm done.

Don't pay taxes, don't give to any charities that have every done something wrong, don't buy any products from a company that has bad working conditions or has had a rapist on their staff?

you can't just withdraw from everything in the world and say "no, you need to change before I can give my money to you". You can fight for change will still giving money, its not like all your tithes goes to protecting rapists, they do help people you know?

You can't compare going to prison for failure to pay taxes to the choice to put money in a Church coffer. Jesus christ.

 

[Monocle]

I voted for McCain

I voted for his daughter, vice senator Palin. When do we find out who won the chancellorship?

 

[teruterubozu]

I voted for his daughter, vice senator Palin. When do we find out who won the chancellorship?

When Santorum sanctifies the pulpit.

 

[Count Dookkake]

When Santorum sanctifies the pulpit.

Disgusting.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Funny pendant:

Jesus is Tutenkamon?

 

[Freezie KO]

Weird, never knew when they took up collection it didn't go to things like charity, but to the Sandusky and priest pedophile retirement fund.

I'm sure they got all the money to fight and settle lawsuits, payoff witnesses, and fly priests to different parishes from their private lemonade stands on the side.

Devo questioned "why people who have a problem with the Church would continue giving it money". As in giving the Church money. Plenty of people give the Church money that aren't throwing in $1 here and there to a collection plate.

But I'll one-up her statement. If you are knowledgable about child rape and the Catholic Church's cover up, why even give to their collection plate? Go to a secular charity organization and give it there. At least you'll have a better chance it won't go to the next child rape suit.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I questioned why people who have a problem with the Church would continue giving it money. It's a valid criticism. I did not say they are okay with pedophilia and child rape.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm a lapsed Catholic and haven't been to church willingly in more than a decade. With the Catholic Church, it's more like politics in that all politics are local. Sure, Catholics tend loosely to identify themselves as being members of the Catholic Church with a capital "C", but when it comes to actual church life they very much identify themselves as being members of their local church. Occasionally, you might get a visit from a Bishop or a Cardinal and so you pretend to identify with the larger diocese.

For the most part, though, when it comes to the offering, people view it as giving money to their specific church as opposed to the Catholic Church with a capital "C" in Rome. This is the same with most churches, regardless of denomination. It's why Catholics can be angered at the church for the pedophile scandals and even disagree from the pews with a lot of the church's teachings on everything from birth control to gay rights, yet they will still give money to their local church.

It's seen as supporting the local congregation, the physical church itself and related stuff like supporting the local priest and nuns to the schools often associated with the local church.

And, to be fair, while I'm not religious these days, local churches do tend to do some good in the community from setting up soup kitchens, food pantries for the poor, supporting gift drives around Christmas-time for the poor, etc.

It's not as if these people see dropping a $20 bill in the offering plate as money that will go to the church's lawyers to settle lawsuits or to cover up pedophile priests. I mean, a lot of it is just tradition. It's not so much true today, but in the old days if you born into the Catholic church that was church and you stayed in the church just like if you were born in the Lutheran or Methodist Church.

 

[TheNatural]

Nobody's blaming every priest, and yet it's hardly unreasonable to say that it's wrong to support an organization that has gone to the greatest lengths to protect itself rather pursue justice for the victims it has produced. To protest that every priest isn't a rapist is to miss the point completely. You don't excise a cancer by saying nice things about the parts that aren't afflicted.

This *was* a thread about the pope. And then quickly changed to quick one liner drive by jabs about how everyone in the Catholic church and anyone who ever supported is is basically a pedophile.

What point am I missing? Last I checked, the name of the thread wasn't "child rape for or against?"

Of course everyone here is against fucking child rape. I mean seriously, what the fuck? Like I said, give me the lever, I'll fry the bastards myself.

But it seems like it's the goal of many in here to flat out say everyone ever involved with the church or gave money wants to support child rapists.

Then if you try to point out that the vast, vast majority of what makes up the church are people who aren't going around raping kids, what do you get? "LOLOL oh so ur saying its ok for only that many to be raped?"

When someone says Catholic church, it means a hell of a lot more ground level people that had nothing to do with this shit than not.

 

[Monocle]

Disgusting.

A complementary sanitary wipe is provided for each attendee.

 

[el retorno]

You can't compare going to prison for failure to pay taxes to the choice to put money in a Church coffer. Jesus christ.

You don't want to because it doesn't fit your argument. I'm talking about the principle of the matter, why would you willingly give to an organization that does ill? Same principle applies to the government to many people their belief system tells them that the Church is like a government and God's government on earth.

Have you ever given to a charity or bought a product that has had someone on staff that has raped or abused kids and defended that person? I'm gonna say probably sometime in your life the answer is yes. The Church is large, it does good, that's why people are giving, they're not going to withhold help to the worlds largest charity that does good work in a lot of places because they've done horrible things.

But I'll one-up her statement. If you are knowledgable about child rape and the Catholic Church's cover up, why even give to their collection plate? Go to a secular charity organization and give it there. At least you'll have a better chance it won't go to the next child rape suit.

Because these people also would like the word of Jesus spread and possibly more people to become catholics and be "saved".

Why are you telling them based off you're moral reasoning (one crime, though repeated legitimization 2000 years of history) what they should give their money to?