New rifts emerge as Trump administration rejects free trade statement at G-20 meeting
- Thread starter Muffin1611
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exmachina64
Banned
Good thing the Trump administration doesn't believe in intervening when it does.
You're giving a lot of credit to a group of people with no prior experience in government.
WonkyPanda
Member
This is interesting because free trade has become divisive on the right and left.
Weren't many of the populist democrats opposed to free trade? At least in some form.
Weren't many of the populist democrats opposed to free trade? At least in some form.
SerTapTap
Member
Populism is always garbage.
Jeez how can someone be this dismissive of something so important to our future ?
theignoramus
Member
I mean he did spend a whole year saying he would do this, so why are we surprised when he does? Every rally, this topic was brought up.
MAD applies to more than just nuclear weapons. Self preservation typically trumps stupidity
Monocle
Member
LMAO, wow. Embarrassingly naive and out of touch.
Trump was one of those democrats.
Markets are really bad at pricing in tail risk. Right now they're functioning as though all the bad stuff Trump says is just talk and none of it will happen, so instead of being scared they're going nuts with anticipation for the coming tax cuts. There will probably be a pretty sizable crash whenever Trump actually pulls the trigger on one of these schemes or really fucks something up.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Like clockwork.
I'm looking forward to how you're going to spin the inevitable tanking of our economy.
AstroNut325
Member
I thought most of NeoGAF was against free trade...
"Don't commit to free trade". lol
It isn't all about America but about allies. How many times has Canada or UK or Germany gone to bat for the US for something. When the US wanted to push a certain deal or something, friends and allies followed suit. EU is on the precipice of massive discontent with the union, UK is leaving and populism is taking hold in other countries. The free trade agreement with Canada has had massive blowback in the EU. Countries like SK and Japan can benefit from free trade. The point is that the recession has just staved off to the point the west is slightly growing again or stable. If the world largest economy is vowing protectionism, isolationism and no free trade deals. It affects countries like Germany far more. The US is not reciprocating here. Also, the US hasn't declined because of free trade deals. It has declined because corporations play the government like a fiddle and lobby officials to pass things that benefit them aka Bill Clinton granting China Most favored nation status and entry into the WTO despite the fact many manufacturers add economists said in 98 it would mean the end of US manufacturing. Oh well, still 4 years, let's see where this goes.
Monocle
Member
What has free trade ever done for our country anyway???
PdotMichael
Banned
Muffin1611
Banned
Oh sure, not committing to free trade, diversity and making progress against climate change is surely good.
They could have worked out years ago that committing to all that is "working out for their country". They just don't want to or don't care.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Most "free trade" deals are just a mechanism to exploit cheap labor and rob working people of their efforts.
The Greek Freak
Member
This attitude is why tech companies can fire thousands of Americans, lie "we can't fill these jobs" then import thousands to come work for less than half as much on HB-2's.
Just because racists are anti globalism, doesn't mean that globalism is some great thing economically especially for the U.S.
Sadly Trump and company are too stupid to realize there is a massive middle ground between an insane agreement like the TPP and being so protectionist that you are going to kamikaze your own economy.
No you don't understand, if you don't want someone to come replace you for .50 cents on the dollar (probably less than that) you're literally Hitler/KKK grand master wizard.
This is only true for the rich and big corporations.
For the 16 people left in the middle class in the U.S., and small businesses as a whole? NOPE
Welcome to why so many people who thought Trump was a dirtbag voted for him anyways.
In their mind the choices were
A. Clinton who they viewed as scum who wants to continue shit that they won't benefit from.
B. Trump who is scum and will likely make things worse, but has a chance to accidentally 1% chance fix some shit that a GOP or DNC pres would never want to/try to fix.
When your choices are 0% hope of change vs. 1% hope of change + the president is going to say horrible shit...well they choose the lottery ticket and I don't blame them.
Millions of these people voted for Obama voted for Trump, or stay away from the polls. Gaf likes to act like these people voted for Obama twice then decided to become massive racists. Yup that makes sense!
Abstrusity
Member
Anyone against free trade is either applying the negatives to free trade when in reality the regulatory bodies that ensure equitable circumstances arising from said free trade were scalped and defunded over a decades-long campaign that started with Reagan.
Because of free trade, we've been able to continually grow, enjoy cheap goods that were not normally manufactured here, anyway, the parts of which would need to be imported, or the supplies with which to make those parts would need to be imported. Because of free trade or nominally, cheap trade, competition has driven quality for most things upward and prices for many of them downward.
Free trade is not to blame, here. Rather, the need to deconstruct regulatory bodies, the inherent pursuit of profit in a capitalistic system, and inability to afford domestic goods, caused the king's share of negatives that have arisen from it.
Fix those and free trade is great.
Simply put, wages haven't kept with inflation, poorly run businesses based on short term profit over long-term sustainability has caused a massive increase in inequality, felt at every level, and removal of the teeth of organizations like the SEC, DOL, the defunding of the IRS...it's just a shit show.
Despite all of this, the US still exports a lot. Sure, they import more, but just because we stop importing or exporting doesn't mean that suddenly there will still be demand for those products. The fundamental conceit of a protectionist policies is that they assume it's as simple as that. It isn't. It isn't anywhere close.
People will simply buy less, necessitating that we make less, and our economy will contract. Bigly.
There are a lot of problems in the US, and the majority of them center around how businesses are run. We need strong regulatory bodies with teeth to bite into them and not let go.
Why would they want to pay a 20% tarif trading with the US when they can make more money trading elsewhere? Like for example: China.
Palette Swap
Member
It's kind of incredible to see a US administration so actively fighting free trade. That seems so obviously orthogonal with GOP standard policy.
Ugh
That's true if you talk about trade deals between countries with a great disparity in wealth (mexico and the US for example) but there are also trade deals between countries with similiar wealth were you don't see the mass migration of cheap labor (EU and South Korea deal for example)
Abstrusity
Member
Importantly, this means that it's good for precisely nobody up front, but most likely China when the cookie crumbles.
I'm pretty sure they're only saying publicly they're against free trade, while still conducting beneficial deals under the table.
Sort of in the same way everyone is screaming that it's time for more goods to be made in America, but everyone is still having things made in China when they look at the bill for manufacturing once they start looking at their own product or budget. Or how conservative values are the most important thing, but then you go to a hotel with an underage boy.
With this administration? I don't think so. They're drunk on the Kool Aid and stupendously inept.
Zomba13
Member
It's aliens. I'm convinced it's aliens. Trump has made contact and the aliens need more carbon in the atmosphere so they can breathe and begin the invasion.
The people who know how the markets work want to make as possible in the big short that is going to follow this artificial high.
They will make a few trillion and regular people who are about to retire are going to get royally fucked.
Business as usual for America.
GutsOfThor
Member
He'll blame Obama.
Remember, to these mindless husks, dear leader can do no wrong.
nintendoman58
Member
That only really applies to his die-hard base though.
I'm pretty sure the moderates who voted for him because of their fear of Hillary will realize their wrongdoing.
I see a lot of them shrinking back into their shells, like a hermit crab that popped out just to yell the n-word but forgot he was in church.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
I hate Trump, but free trade is a disaster. I have to admit Trump's break with the bipartisan Washington consensus could lead to better outcomes under a less monstrous administration.
I have met Trumpers who actually like everything he is doing. Even the lies and the bullshit.
I don't get it...
Whoever was the first guest on Real Time this week (Sheldon someone) explained this pretty well - it's down to Citizens United giving the fossil fuel industry unlimited lobbying influence and basically forcing any climate-conscious republican representatives to shut up for fear of being primaried.
It's because most americans are taught since birth that the reason why America is number one is because of a little something called american exceptionalism. Now half the country grows out of it and realizes that's not how it works but republican voters keep believing that shit right until they die. That's how you got Trump.
America doesn't need no trade agreements or good relationships with foreign countries to stay rich and great and powerful. Americans are smarter than everyone and all other countries are just leeches that suck the blood out of the almighty US of A.
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