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[GaimeGuy]

Roger Shawyer is not even a physicist, he is an aerospace engineer which makes this even more impressive if this turns out to be true

Darwin was a geologist.

The cosmic background radiation was discovered by astronomers (not by physicists)

Coca cola was created by accident when a pharmacist was trying to find a way to cure headaches, and lab assistants spilled a mixture of coca leaves and cola nuts (and some other trace components) into his carbonated water.


Percy Spencer worked as a radio engineer for Raytheon on combat equipment for the DoD, and noticed that the candy bar in his pocket melted when he walked in front of a magnetron. This lead to him inventing the microwave.

There are all kinds of breakthroughs made in science by accident, or by people working other specialties.

 

[subrock]

"An EM drive working under a constant one milli-g acceleration would propel a ship to about 9.4% the speed of light, resulting in a total travel time of 92 years."

Ah shit! Almost. Take away 20 years from that and I might just barely be alive to see it happen.

You'd only see it happen if you were on board.

 

[Grym]

Darwin was a geologist.

The cosmic background radiation was discovered by astronomers (not by physicists)

Coca cola was created by accident when a pharmacist was trying to find a way to cure headaches, and lab assistants spilled a mixture of coca leaves and cola nuts (and some other trace components) into his carbonated water.


Percy Spencer worked as a radio engineer for Raytheon on combat equipment for the DoD, and noticed that the candy bar in his pocket melted when he walked in front of a magnetron. This lead to him inventing the microwave.

There are all kinds of breakthroughs made in science by accident, or by people working other specialties.

That's just what 'the man' wants you to believe. There are no accidents - only stolen alien technology

Spoiler

not really

 

[Delusibeta]

The ultimate in troll physics, in that it's apparently not a troll.

 

[Ferrio]

"An EM drive working under a constant one milli-g acceleration would propel a ship to about 9.4% the speed of light, resulting in a total travel time of 92 years."

Ah shit! Almost. Take away 20 years from that and I might just barely be alive to see it happen.

If we're lucky aliens will see us launch the first one of these things and go "Yep, they're ready" and come down to say hello.


I can dream can't I?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Isn't this,



Just a sciency way of saying "creating energy out of nothing"? Also, if this is really proven to be real, and not some transient phenomena that can never scale to practical applications, then the next step is giving NASA the Pentagon's budget lol.

The quantum vacuum isn't truly empty - it contains extremely short lived waves which yield to particles popping in and out of existence through spontaneous symmetry breaking.

Think of it as a low energy state of fluxuation, where at an infinitesimally localized sealed chamber, trace material (energy and matter) from the surrounding environment leaks in and out at the quantum scale, resulting in a non-zero energy state.

This EM Drive harnesses that perpetual non-zero energy.

 

[Skyward Sheep]

That would be insane. We'd have Star Wars grade levitating tech if it pans out.

And hoverboards.

It's happening!

 

[_Ryo_]

Step 1: Build a ship with this technology.
Step 2: Offer tourist trips to the moon and back to earth.
Step 3: Use money to fund more expansive space exploration.
Step 4: ????
Step 5: Profit.

Spoiler

Step 4 is aliens. It's always Aliens.

 

[M3d10n]

I think our own knowledge sometimes hinders us from discovering new things. The reason this is taking so long to test and is being tested in such poor conditions is because it lacks a sound explanation behind why it should work. If this were 200 years ago people would be just build a very big one and see if it flies or not.

 

[shadyspace]

This io9 comment seems to be under the impression that at best this engine could create a warp field?

And they’re still going to run interferometer tests to see if it creates a warp field, which if that checks out, this will be the holy grail. This will give us the stars. If confirmed, i reserve the right to go absolutely batshit insane with glee.

Even if the warp part doesn’t check out, it may not have given us the stars, but it will give us the planets

That would be just too nuts...right?

 

[GaimeGuy]

I think our own knowledge sometimes hinders us from discovering new things. The reason this is taking so long to test and is being tested in such poor conditions is because it lacks a sound explanation behind why it should work. If this were 200 years ago people would be just build a very big one and see if it flies or not.

No, the same "What the hell?" reaction always occurs with these things, until someone can come up with an explanation.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

So we potentially have the impulse drive that will facilitate transportation within a solar system, and we might soon have a warp drive capable of interstellar travel?

What a time to be alive!

 

[Nafai1123]

No, the same "What the hell?" reaction always occurs with these things, until someone can come up with an explanation.

It is true that the skepticism in the scientific community has prevented research on this from having serious funding...not that that is a bad thing. It's understandable why researchers wouldn't feel it's worthwhile to pump a bunch of money into something that sounds so crazy.

 

[Ayato Kanzaki]

Anyone has an idea of the mass and surface area for solar panels to provide 50kW of power?

That's where the limit will be, I think. When not in the inner solar system, the solar panels will collect very little power, so the acceleration rate will suffer.

 

[Almighty]

Anyone has an idea of the mass and surface area for solar panels to provide 50kW of power?

That's where the limit will be, I think. When not in the inner solar system, the solar panels will collect very little power, so the acceleration rate will suffer.

There's always nuclear power.

 

[JCizzle]

This inventor is a time traveler pissed that it was taking us so long. This is amazing if it continues to pan out.

 

[John Dunbar]

is the em drive somehow obviously superior to the cannae drive or is there some other reason people here are giving a ton of credit to shawyer with barely a mention of fetta? as i understand it's more or less the same stuff that both came up with independently. is this a modern day newton/leibniz calculus debacle?

 

[Melon Husk]

is the em drive somehow obviously superior to the cannae drive or is there some other reason people here are giving a ton of credit to shawyer with barely a mention of fetta? as i understand it's more or less the same stuff that both came up with independently. is this a modern day newton/leibniz calculus debacle?

That was the so called "null test" debacle. NASA's lab found no difference in results. Fetta's slots were not necessary. Read the summary.

Watching Shawyer's presentations on youtube I can't shake the feeling that this is just an old man lost in his fantasies.

 

[Nafai1123]

is the em drive somehow obviously superior to the cannae drive or is there some other reason people here are giving a ton of credit to shawyer with barely a mention of fetta? as i understand it's more or less the same stuff that both came up with independently. is this a modern day newton/leibniz calculus debacle?

Fetta deserves credit as well no doubt; however, his theory on why the drive works ended up being disproved (he thought the drive required some slots in the cavity for it to function) so that might have something to do with it.

BTW, that was the commonly misconstrued "null" test that was conducted a while back. People thought the null test creating thrust meant there must be some error in the experiment, when in reality the null test was a test without the slots that Fetta thought were necessary for the device to work.

Edit: Scratch that. Fetta does not deserve credit. Shawyer came up with it much earlier.

 

[kirby_fox]

I can only hope this not only pans out, but that enough people throw money at it so we can get it going faster. 10 years is too long in my book, and 5 is pushing it. I want to see a planned mission going up in 3 years.

On top of that, I can't fathom how this could change life here on earth as we know it...

 

[Zoolader]

Good news for all of mankind. It pisses me off whenever I hear the debate that Nasa is a useless waste of taxpayer money.

 

[John Dunbar]

That was the so called "null test" debacle. NASA's lab found no difference in results. Fetta's slots were not necessary. Read the summary.

i've read it, but i don't see how it matters that his slots were unnecessary if the machine itself still worked. isn't it also possible that shawyer is wrong about how his machine works? that just seems like a secondary concern if the thing actually does what they say.

just to be clear, i am assuming that both came up with their thingys independently more or less at the same time. was one of them clearly first?

 

[maniac-kun]

First use next to satelites using it should be a probe of some sort that should do some deep space exploration.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Too bad I'll be dead.

 

[aliengmr]

Anyone has an idea of the mass and surface area for solar panels to provide 50kW of power?

That's where the limit will be, I think. When not in the inner solar system, the solar panels will collect very little power, so the acceleration rate will suffer.

Nuclear power. We actually have the tech for that covered. It only needs a fraction of what we currently use for submarines.

 

[DarkKyo]

This io9 comment seems to be under the impression that at best this engine could create a warp field?

That would be just too nuts...right?

Maybe the universe just works that way. Whoever programmed it put in shortcuts as long as you've reached a certain level of technology.

Seriously though, this is unbelievably cool. While it sucks that we may not get to see the long-term implications of this, it's kind of neat to think I was around just the right time to see the birth of interstellar travel unfold. If this pans out then the US has to drop everything and increase NASA's funding by 1000%.

 

[User Name Here]

To Andromeda and beyond! Or not? Or what?

 

[Crisco]

So like, this thing is basically an RF generator inside a tapered metal tube? Why aren't there tons of youtube videos of people making crude versions? The actual technologies at use here seem incredibly cheap and accessible......

 

[User 73706]

Suggestion for EM^2=C Drive to succeed the EM Drive:

1. Make small EM drive on tiny little ship, place in vacuum.
2. Have baby EM-driven ship orbit something in said vacuum.
3. Watch as speed increases exponentially.
4. Repeat as much as possible surrounding same thing that gets orbited around.
5. Use all the little bouncing microwaves and put the vacuum ship baby things in a real-size EM drive.
6. Now EM drive is using regular microwaves and micro-microwaves exponentially increasing in speed. (And energy; speed = energy in science.)
7. Repeat steps as necessary and scale upwards to keep making big things move faster.
8. You've invented a drive that may be able to achieve relativistic speeds!

 

[Melon Husk]

just to be clear, i am assuming that both came up with their thingys independently more or less at the same time. was one of them clearly first?

Oh. Guido filed for a US patent in 2012, so he is suspect. Could be that he made these unnecessary modifications for his own personal gain. Cannae LLC has been active at least since 2010. It's my understanding that Shawyer was clearly the first and perhaps only inventor. His work goes back to 2000, SPR Ltd. was founded in 2001. He also claims to have discovered this phenomenon in his work with satellites at EADS Astrium.

Edit: All this info is available on Wikipedia and U.S. Patent office and ofc you can visit both companies' websites.

 

[Delta Assault]

Too bad I'll be dead.

All aboard the SS Botany Bay.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I read that io9 quote as 92 days. rofl.

 

[davepoobond]

Seems like the only thing people talk about is its use in space. Does it have any use in normal everyday life?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The superconducting EmDrive seems the most exciting. If that works it could end up being used to lift cars and planes into the sky, and potentially a whole lot more things into orbit.

 

[cutmeamango]

If we built an infinite highway in space, would me and my skate be faster?

 

[Naked Snake]

Another article has some insights from the man who invented it:

Nasa validates EmDrive: Roger Shawyer says aerospace industry needs to watch out

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Seems like the only thing people talk about is its use in space. Does it have any use in normal everyday life?

Yes.

It makes all modes of transportation efficient and cheap. Cars, buses, airplanes, etc.

 

[Melon Husk]

Seems like the only thing people talk about is its use in space. Does it have any use in normal everyday life?

Inventor claims flying cars, England to Australia in under 3 hours for half the airfare, saving the world from climate change by deploying thousands of solar satellites simultaneously providing power and cooling the Earth by reflecting off sunlight..
Every mode of transportation under the sun and vehicle bigger than a Mini Cooper would change.

And people ask why are we skeptical of him. A myriad of proposed applications for very little science or actual results. I mean he IS an engineer, but that's no excuse.

 

[Mad Max]

I'm surprised how many here seem to blindly trust a claim as bold as this, when the article essentially based on a forum post, and a whole lot of dubious claims by most people involved in the project. When you look past the coolness of it, there is still zero peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this device actually does work as intented. To me it seems more of an effort to extract money from rich investors than anything else: If Sawyer actually believed that his idea would work he could have published a peer reviewed paper years ago.

 

[davepoobond]

Yes.

It makes all modes of transportation efficient and cheap. Cars, buses, airplanes, etc.

Have they figured out if it is scalable at all?

Inventor claims flying cars, England to Australia in under 3 hours for half the airfare, saving the world from climate change by deploying thousands of solar satellites simultaneously providing power and cooling the Earth by reflecting off sunlight..
Every mode of transportation under the sun bigger than a Mini Cooper would change.

And people ask why are we skeptical.

Lofty claims for sure...

 

[Nafai1123]

The superconducting EmDrive seems the most exciting. If that works it could end up being used to lift cars and planes into the sky, and potentially a whole lot more things into orbit.

I want hover boots.

I'm surprised how many here seem to blindly trust a claim as bold as this, when the article essentially based on a forum post, and a whole lot of dubious claims by most people involved in the project. When you look past the coolness of it, there is still zero peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this device actually does work as intented. To me it seems more of an effort to extract money from rich investors than anything else: If Sawyer actually believed that his idea would work he could have published a peer reviewed paper years ago.

Nobody's blindly trusting anyone. Multiple tests have been done by multiple different research groups with the same results. It's promising research that deserves further funding and exploration. FYI, Eagleworks has been doing the tests for NASA, not Shawyer. They have no reason to make dubious claims.

 

[Doc Holliday]

It's in the article:

Isn't that faster than the ships in 2001: space odyssey? Don't remember how long it took them to get jupiter

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I'm surprised how many here seem to blindly trust a claim as bold as this, when the article essentially based on a forum post, and a whole lot of dubious claims by most people involved in the project. When you look past the coolness of it, there is still zero peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this device actually does work as intented. To me it seems more of an effort to extract money from rich investors than anything else: If Sawyer actually believed that his idea would work he could have published a peer reviewed paper years ago.

There have been 2 groups who confirmed the results so far.

The engineers and physicists working for Eagleworks NASA have been posting their results on that forum.

Obviously we need more tests, but the EM Drive seems to be producing thrust in a vacuum.

 

[Crisco]

Don't we have dudes in space right now? There are RF generators on the damn ISS. Run those things into some space trash cans or whatever the fuck they have up there and prove this thing once and for all!

 

[Mad Max]

Nobody's blindly trusting anyone. Multiple tests have been done by multiple different research groups with the same results. It's promising research that deserves further funding and exploration. FYI, Eagleworks has been doing the tests for NASA, not Shawyer. They have no reason to make dubious claims.

Could you give me the references to those papers then, because I haven't found them yet.

 

[Wyndstryker]

They need to call it an EMpulse drive.

 

[AnotherNils]

Yes.

It makes all modes of transportation efficient and cheap. Cars, buses, airplanes, etc.

Just wait. If this thing gets proven to work, people will oppose putting this into cars because we don't know what kind of side-effects it will have.

 

[Prez]

My guess is that nothing will come of this, I'm not buying into this kind of bs anymore.

 

[davepoobond]

Just wait. If this thing gets proven to work, people will oppose putting this into cars because we don't know what kind of side-effects it will have.

It would be shooting microwaves everywhere just like cell phones are now. Brain cancer for everyone

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Could you give me the references to those papers then, because I haven't found them yet.

Your asking for peer-reviewed papers when nobody doesn't really understand how the EM drive is even producing thrust in the first place.

More experimentation needs to be done, and then anyone from the physics community can try to come up with new theories if this pans out.