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[hey_it's_that_dog]

Cliches like Nanny State are a poor substitute for an actual argument, and particularly ironic coming from someone in favor of drug prohibition. People are still free to buy as much soda as they like. The only restriction is on the size of the container.

The more I think about it, the more I'm for it, at least as an experiment. It doesn't prohibit individuals from consuming whatever amount of soda they want. Yet it serves to communicate strongly what is healthy and what isn't. It's libertarian paternalism.

 

[Alebrije]

Well sometimes goverment needs to act as "nanni" because people trend to be unaware of obesity dangers, specially in the U.S. when food customs involve high calories beberages and fast food.

 

[Forceatowulf]

And on this front, why the fuck should there be speed limits on the roads, I dont care how fast you want to go, I want to be able to drive as fast as I fucking want without the nanny state telling me how fast is appropriate.

The fuck? Because you might actually KILL SOMEONE?

Drinking a big gulp every day isn't going to hurt anyone but your self.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The more I think about it, the more I'm for it. It doesn't prohibit individuals from consuming whatever amount of soda they want. Yet it serves to communicate strongly what is healthy and what isn't. It's libertarian paternalism.

It's nothing, but useless overregulation by a Mayor who seems to enjoy destroying people's basic rights and free choice.

 

[Deified Data]

Comparing this soda "ban" to drugs is one hell of a terrible analogy.

When the government starts letting us by schedule 1 drugs even in the smallest amounts legally, come back with that argument.

And something tells me people will only complain long enough for the straw to make it to their gaping maw.

...so we trust people to partake of drugs responsibly, but soda? The devil's brew! Never change, GAF.

Anyway, come back to me with one concrete example of such a ban improving the overall health of a community and we'll talk. I don't even drink soda. Couldn't give two shits.

 

[Zabka]

Makes perfect sense. Time to go visit the new ice cream sandwich store up the street.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Most "medium" sized drinks at fast food places don't even fit in my car's cup-holder anymore.

Can't say I can find a reason to be upset at this sort of law, honestly.

Buy a pickup truck and you can fit one of these in there

 

[Nevasleep]

Just buy 3 small sodas instead then.

But people are lazy.

 

[Diprosalic]

i for one think it's a clever use of psychology without preventing someone drinking as much soda as they want.

 

[Dude Abides]

The more I think about it, the more I'm for it, at least as an experiment. It doesn't prohibit individuals from consuming whatever amount of soda they want. Yet it serves to communicate strongly what is healthy and what isn't. It's libertarian paternalism.

Yep. Unfortunately it's easier to jerk one's knee and get outraged than to thoughtfully consider the actual tradeoffs.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

It's nothing, but useless overregulation by a Mayor who seems to enjoy destroying people's basic rights and free choice.

People can still have as much soda as they want. It's not like the gun ban.

 

[Nert]

Semantics. The ban pertains to beverages and that's how it'll be perceived. If the public feels they're being short-changed and coddled, they're going to respond negatively. It's a losing battle. Even if it sticks, it's not going to have the desired effect. GAF's single-minded support of this ban is bizarre, given its collective tendency towards drug legalization. Fuck the "One is certifiably dangerous" argument - you're not going to kill someone behind the wheel hopped up on pop.

What? Only a few people in this thread support the ban. Many of the people who understand the reasoning behind it still don't agree with it (like me).

 

[cdyhybrid]

While I applaud any efforts to encourage people to be healthier, this seems a little overboard. RIP mixed drinks at bars/clubs.

Edit: Unless those places aren't considered restaurants.

 

[Parallacs]

What free will was taken away?


And on this front, why the fuck should there be speed limits on the roads, I dont care how fast you want to go, I want to be able to drive as fast as I fucking want without the nanny state telling me how fast is appropriate.

Speed limits exist because you can kill others and yourself with your car. Slowly killing yourself with soda is embarrasing but it isn't something the government needs to concern themselves over. How about New York focus on why the rent is too damn high?

Also, there are obviously ways people are going to get around this ban. Big Gulps and Venti's are still allowed. What did they accomplish if people are still going to get fat?

 

[reggie]

Figures there'd be people on NeoGAF that actually agree with this....

Glad I don't live in NY, not that I buy much soda or even large portions of it.

Instead of looking at it intelligently why don't we just instead issue a knee jerk law that wont change anything that it's hoping to fix.

 

[Stet]

I think it's awesome. Mostly because I don't live in New York and I can't believe they actually did this.

 

[Alebrije]

People should have a right to buy whatever they want, but at the same time, why would anyone need 20 oz of soda in a single day?

Mexico :

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think it's awesome. Mostly because I don't live in New York and I can't believe they actually did this.

The fallout will be hilarious, if nothing else.

 

[Neuromancer]

While I applaud any efforts to encourage people to be healthier, this seems a little overboard. RIP mixed drinks at bars/clubs.

Edit: Unless those places aren't considered restaurants.

Mixed drinks would be fine anyway, the ban is on containers bigger than 16 oz, not the actual soda contained.

 

[Deified Data]

What? Only a few people in this thread support the ban. Many of the people who understand the reasoning behind it still don't agree with it (like me).

A vocal minority, then.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Well sometimes goverment needs to act as "nanni" because people trend to be unaware of obesity dangers, specially in the U.S. when food customs involve high calories beberages and fast food.

You really think people don't know about the obesity dangers? People like what they like regardless of the personal health consequences. Look at smoking. How the FUCK are people still buying that shit after all the evidence that points to it being a huge health risk? You can't even say there hasn't been a large effort to raise awareness about the dangers of smoking either. Guess what, people still don't give a fuck, they like what they like.

 

[Tallshortman]

I'm usually fine with sensible regulation but this is just stupid.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Speed limits exist because you can kill others and yourself with your car. Slowly killing yourself with soda is embarrasing but it isn't something the government needs to concern themselves over. How about New York focus on why the rent is too damn high?

Also, there are obviously ways people are going to get around this ban. Big Gulps and Venti's are still allowed. What did they accomplish if people are still going to get fat?

Speed limits exist because driving on a public road is communal behavior, not individual behavior. People need to drive roughly the same speed or it doesn't work and it's not safe.
Individuality and personal freedom take a backseat to communitarian concerns on the highway, by necessity.

Likewise, killing yourself slowly with food also affects others, though less acutely and less dangerously. Health care costs are communal concerns; a person dying is a concern to their loved ones.

To answer your last question, yes, some people will still get fat. But this doesn't have to affect everyone's behavior to be a net success. If some people change their habits, then some people will be healthier, and it will theoretically reduce health care costs. It needs to be studied carefully, of course.

 

[Angry Fork]

So what's next, New York, you gonna put a ban limit on red meats next? How about you ban Sundae's and milkshakes. It's all bad for your health, I mean fuck it why not?

The problem with obesity is it's costing a shitload for ordinary people who aren't fat through healthcare costs. They also take up too much room in subways.

There's a legitimate argument for the banning of meat imo that supersedes individual liberty bs. I wouldn't be against people eating meat if they hunt for it themselves but I'd definitely like to see the systematic rounding up/torture of them for unnecessary means to be banned. I eat meat/eggs so I'm a hypocrite in that regard but I eat it because it's much cheaper than the alternative which I can't afford and not eating it wouldn't do anything for the system anyway it's like voting. Although I've cut down on it I'll have a hamburger once a week or something.

Most of the upper sizes and shit you can get in America isn't available in the rest of the world because they aren't as disgustingly frothy at the mouth for jumbo fries like we are. They're not complaining about freedomzz because it's such a stupid sad thing to complain about. 'I CAN'T GET FAT QUICKER AND DIE SOONER WAAAAAAAAAAA' That's not even addressing the fact that they didn't ban Soda they just banned a large size.

Government regulates soda: YAY
Government regulates drugs: STUPID WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY

You do know it takes hundreds of millions of dollars more to fund the drug wars then simply not having a soda option on shelves right? Police aren't going to be knocking down doors looking for 20 oz. cups.

You really think people don't know about the obesity dangers? People like what they like regardless of the personal health consequences. Look at smoking. How the FUCK are people still buying that shit after all the evidence that points to it being a huge health risk? You can't even say there hasn't been a large effort to raise awareness about the dangers of smoking either. Guess what, people still don't give a fuck, they like what they like.

Smoking has gone down dramatically... the awareness campaigns, price raising etc. has worked. Smoking is now seen as a bad habit rather than a normal past time.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yep. Unfortunately it's easier to jerk one's knee and get outraged than to thoughtfully consider the actual tradeoffs.

Except there aren't any benefits here.

 

[Host Samurai]

Bullshit. If they want to ban anything than they should regulate the coupons that McDonalds and Burger King give out like buy a Big Mac get 1 free or buy super size fries for 99 cents. Wrong thing to ban. Fucking joke

 

[Czigga]

The more I think about it, the more I'm for it, at least as an experiment. It doesn't prohibit individuals from consuming whatever amount of soda they want. Yet it serves to communicate strongly what is healthy and what isn't. It's libertarian paternalism.

Lol at calling it libertarian paternalism. This is as far from libertarian as you can get.

Also, I dunno but I think people have been having too many babies, it's costing taxpayers too much money and is a drain on our infrastructure. We should probably limit sex to only twice a month. Who's with me?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think it's awesome. Mostly because I don't live in New York and I can't believe they actually did this.

I'm just happy I only work there and I can go home to a state with bottomless drinks and bottomless magazines!

 

[Parallacs]

People can still have as much soda as they want. It's not like the gun ban.

It's exactly like gun control. You can't outright ban guns overnight in America (I know they are banned in NY). It's about inconveniencing people. For guns, make them wait, limit their sizes, limit where they can be taken, who can use them, how big their magazine is, if they can be conceiled. I'm not arguing for or against gun control, just pointing out that it is similar.

What's to stop them from going from 16oz to 12oz? Adding provisions for limiting drinks with milk? Adding grocery stores? Adding diet sodas that still have calories? Adding refill limits at restaurants or bottle limits at stands? Is this really the business America wants to deal with?

 

[notworksafe]

Large sodas banned, tubes of raw cookie dough still available in all grocery stores.

Why not just make the law affect only its obvious target? They should just install a scale in all stores and put up a "You must be under X lbs to buy this soda" sign.

 

[Nert]

Except there aren't any benefits here.

If the goal is to get people to consume less soda, presenting them with a smaller default size will certainly accomplish that. I don't see that benefit as outweighing the limitations being placed on consumer choice, though.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It's exactly like gun control. You can't outright ban guns overnight in America (I know they are banned in NY). It's about inconveniencing people. For guns, make them wait, limit their sizes, limit where they can be taken, who can use them, how big their magazine is, if they can be conceiled. I'm not arguing for or against gun control, just pointing out that it is similar.

What's to stop them from going from 16oz to 12oz? Adding provisions for limiting drinks with milk? Adding grocery stores? Adding diet sodas that still have calories? Adding refill limits at restaurants or bottle limits at stands? Is this really the business America wants to deal with?

Exactly death by a thousand regulatory cuts.

 

[Draconian]

And on this front, why the fuck should there be speed limits on the roads, I dont care how fast you want to go, I want to be able to drive as fast as I fucking want without the nanny state telling me how fast is appropriate.

You had to have realized how awful this argument was before hitting the submit button surely.

 

[Joates]

What's to stop them from going from 16oz to 12oz? Adding provisions for limiting drinks with milk? Adding grocery stores? Adding diet sodas that still have calories? Adding refill limits at restaurants or bottle limits at stands? Is this really the business America wants to deal with?

And just imagine the possibilities if we added soap and water to that slope of yours.

You had to have realized how awful this argument was before hitting the submit button surely.

Yeah, much like the people comparing this ban to the bans pertaining to drugs realized the same?

 

[BruiserBear]

On the one hand I find it offensive when the government thinks it's smarter than the people, and decides to write laws to try and make them live their lives differently.

On the other hand I know there are a lot of really stupid people.........

 

[victreeb3l]

what a waste of time and effort

how about making healthy foods more affordable?

 

[Takuya]

This only works for money conscious folk... The rest will just buy more.

 

[Mully]

Thanks a lot OBAMA.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

You really think people don't know about the obesity dangers? People like what they like regardless of the personal health consequences. Look at smoking. How the FUCK are people still buying that shit after all the evidence that points to it being a huge health risk? You can't even say there hasn't been a large effort to raise awareness about the dangers of smoking either. Guess what, people still don't give a fuck, they like what they like.

Hasn't smoking declined substantially since the 1950s? That would suggest some correlation between raised awareness and people's behavior.

Some people know what they're doing and do it anyway. Some people genuinely aren't aware of how bad soda is for you.

 

[Czigga]

Large sodas banned, tubes of raw cookie dough still available in all grocery stores.

Why not just make the law affect its obvious target? They should just install a scale in all stores and put up a "You must be under X lbs to buy this soda" sign.

Haha yeah I like that idea. This law is to battle obesity right? So it should only apply to obese people. Anyone who wants to buy a soda larger than 16 oz should have to meet the recommended BMI for their height. Also, if they are too skinny they should no longer be allowed to buy any sodas LESS than 16 oz. Then everyone will eventually be the perfect government sanctioned weight.

 

[KingGondo]

People get so incredibly fired up about this, when in reality:

- It only affects certain types of vendors
- It doesn't ban refills or buying multiple sodas
- A ban on large soda is perhaps the most innocuous example of "nanny statism" in recorded history
- The soda industry is fighting this tooth and nail, which should tell you something--they know that if people are subjected to the default bias (read the New Yorker article), people will consume less soda.
- Obesity is a massive problem, and more politically viable methods of reducing sugar intake (such as a soda/candy sin tax) are nonstarters.

It isn't politically or economically advantageous for Bloomberg, so this leads me to the conclusion that they think it will actually work.

I think it's a fascinating social experiment, personally. If New Yorkers are that outraged by this, they can simply elect a mayor who will overturn the ban.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

It's exactly like gun control. You can't outright ban guns overnight in America (I know they are banned in NY). It's about inconveniencing people. For guns, make them wait, limit their sizes, limit where they can be taken, who can use them, how big their magazine is, if they can be conceiled. I'm not arguing for or against gun control, just pointing out that it is similar.

What's to stop them from going from 16oz to 12oz? Adding provisions for limiting drinks with milk? Adding grocery stores? Adding diet sodas that still have calories? Adding refill limits at restaurants or bottle limits at stands? Is this really the business America wants to deal with?

It's similar in that you can fretfully construct a slippery slope argument, yes.

 

[The Elite]

Does Coke Zero get a pass?

 

[Dude Abides]

Except there aren't any benefits here.

Since you apparently missed it the first time.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2012/08/13/120813ta_talk_surowiecki

 

[Angry Fork]

Also, I dunno but I think people have been having too many babies, it's costing taxpayers too much money and is a drain on our infrastructure. We should probably limit sex to only twice a month. Who's with me?

You can't regulate sex. A child license requirement and 1-3 child policy is better.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Mixed drinks would be fine anyway, the ban is on containers bigger than 16 oz, not the actual soda contained.

But what if I want a gallon of Jack and Coke?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Soda prohibition!

the mob to rise again.

lol..good stuff.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Lol at calling it libertarian paternalism. This is as far from libertarian as you can get.

Also, I dunno but I think people have been having too many babies, it's costing taxpayers too much money and is a drain on our infrastructure. We should probably limit sex to only twice a month. Who's with me?

I didn't make up the term. Look it up.

It's not "as far from libertarian as you can get." That would be banning the consumption of soda. This only bans certain elements on the supply side. A person is free to consume as much as they want. It shapes the consumption options (paternalism) while still allowing the consumer to choose whatever they want (libertarianism).

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

If the goal is to get people to consume less soda, presenting them with a smaller default size will certainly accomplish that. I don't see that benefit as outweighing the limitations being placed on consumer choice, though.

Wouldn't limiting alcohol sizes sold at a 7-11 be more helpful? I mean it's odd that 40oz's of PBR are fine (and which I had no clue existed till living in Brooklyn, but much like glass bottle PBRs, they do exist), but 20oz soda is the issue? I'm not arguing about booze, just about what seems like the bigger issue in terms of health (if you think it's a problem) because of the non-health effects of it. Truthfully as someone growing up in PA, I even at a beer distro store or places selling bottles, I never even saw 40s. I assume like beer with more than ~20% Alcohol content it's not legal. Getting used to beer at the corner store in Park Slope...which is at near 14th and 15th St and is run by some fucking really great guys, was always a bit of a surprise (hell the fact LIRR sells booze and NJT lets you get blasted is kind of interesting). The 40oz's at 7-11 even more.

 

[Czigga]

You can't regulate sex. A child license requirement and 1-3 child policy is better.

Who says you can't? There are sex-related laws all over the country.