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New York Times: US churches using Halo games to attract younger converts
- Thread starter Lo-Volt
- Start date
Count Dookkake
Member
shinsnake said:
Depends who you ask. That's the problem. The "word of god" and it's host of translators are not really at consensus on the subject. There are some who feel that thinking of sin is the same as enacting sin, or at least close enough, and thus just as bad. Hence the problem with porn. I would wager that the church in question is not a fan of porn (even animated, vanilla, hetero married porn) so I wonder why the virtual sin of Halo is tolerable?
C4Lukins said:
I'm not sure that I agree with that, but I do agree that it has more rape, cannibalism and illicit sex.
tinfoil hat conspiracy time!
see what's happening is, the power that be are merging RELIGION, POLITICS, POPULAR CULTURE to train America's youth for upcoming wars. wars that will in-part, seem more & more like videogames. but also to get them used to killing and violence in person. brainwashing am total. :lol
see what's happening is, the power that be are merging RELIGION, POLITICS, POPULAR CULTURE to train America's youth for upcoming wars. wars that will in-part, seem more & more like videogames. but also to get them used to killing and violence in person. brainwashing am total. :lol
UnholySpectacle
Member
I'll see your "what," and raise a "THE HELL.....?"
freethought
Member
Cruzader said:
No-one's bashing Halo. We're reacting to various churches and religious organisations trying to leech off the popularity of the game in a cynical ploy to entice youths back to church. The hypocrisy is also pretty astounding if you ask me, but then I really don't see a difference between killing a brute in Halo and killing a cop in GTA, like the pastor says; it's just a bunch of pixels.
freethought said:
yea sorry for what i said. I meant to say something along what you just said . lol
Also in my opinion, if you can see the difference between reality and a virtual world, than its ok to have violent games just like movies. We all know that but these asses just want some attention just like jack thompson!
Some of the fallacies posted here are great. If you believe that video games do not harm children and that playing Halo is no worse than reading a book, or any other form of media. Then, you cannot get angry that a some churches are using things, that you yourselves, find no problem with.
Campster said:
Also, if we ever want video games to be on the same level of other mass media, we need to let people experience what playing games is like. If youth pastors see that gamers aren't crazy and just hang out and have fun, it will be better for the industry.
There is just too much trendy religion hating going on.
You know, this makes sense to me, the bible and Halo 3 have a lot in common.
Forerunners = God
MC Kicks Ass = Jesus Kicks Ass
Jesus Died for Our Sins = MC
Jesus turned water into wine = MC turned the needler into a useful weapon
The Bible had a disapointing Ending...
Most importantly
Both totally 100% fictional.
Forerunners = God
MC Kicks Ass = Jesus Kicks Ass
Jesus Died for Our Sins = MC
killed thousands of aliens for shits and giggles
The Bible had a disapointing Ending...
Most importantly
Both totally 100% fictional.
Count Dookkake said:
The Bible depicts WAY more violence. Ask the Canaanites, the Amorites, the Bashanites, Midianites, Amelekites, and all the other people that God commanded his chosen to eradicate from the face of the Earth. Until Halo sports baby killing, virgin raping, and sending bears to maul children (great game mechanic), the Bible still has the edge.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
chanting monks were the clincher
PhoenixDark
Banned
shinsnake said:
Huh?
Count Dookkake said:
How many Jack Thompson threads are on GAF in which people challenge this logic? Everyone here is against violence - yet plays extremely violent videogames? Is this hypocricy, or are the two subjects different? Playing violent videogames has no bearing on your personal beliefs on real violence. You know, in real life.
Pureauthor
Member
besada said:
Don't forget thrusting the butts of spears through someone's midsection. Ouch.
I wonder if a Bible MMORPG would work.
freethought
Member
Ulairi said:
It seems to me that you're entirely missing the point. I can't speak for others but what offends me is the hypocrisy of these groups in using a violent video game as a recruitment aid when in the past groups such as Focus on the Family have railed against such things. And you just know they're going to go after GTAIV.
As far as I'm concerned their position is untenable while mine is entirely consistent
freethought said:
You can't lump in every church in the world in with Focus on the Family. Unless you can show that this church specifically supported an organization that has pushed legislation against or censorship of games, I don't see any conflict of interest or hypocrisy.
You can't blame videogames every time someone plays them goes nuts, and you can't blame all religious organizations every time one says videogames are bad.
Count Dookkake
Member
Ulairi said:
Your fallacy is that an organization which claims certain qualities of itself and its adherants can not be called out for hypocrisy. That such an institution engages in hypocrisy makes some of its other claims look suspect.
PhoenixDark said:
I am not sure if I am reading you correctly, so please be gentle.
One, not everyone here is against violence. But if someone claims to be against real violence, there isn't necessarily a conflict if they engage in fantasy violence, depending on their philosophy.
Two, the church is a different entity because numerous denominations have used the "thought-sin" argument against things like porn, so it seems only fair that this standard should also be applied to games.
Three, it is okay for people to point out flaws and contradictions in a person's or an institution's beliefs, even if the critic is not a follower of said belief.
Pureauthor said:
Would be super sweet.
besada said:
The only reason I say that I'm not sure which has more, is because I am not up to speed on Halo. Don't the Covenant wipe out entire civilizations and planets? If so, it will be hard to quantify such things without a population comparison of the Halo-verse and the Bible-verse (pun intended). But there is certainly more sex and sex crime in the bible.
A friend of mine hangs out with his former youth director from back when he was in High School (They are now 30 and 40), and there's Halo games at his house or the youth director's house that sometimes spring up after church with the youth and kids from the neighborhood. Its a good way to get kids maybe interested in attending church that might not otherwise bother. No biggie.
Count Dookkake
Member
besada said:
I wonder if the subject matter of such a game would grant it a "morality" pass for the many young children who otherwise aren't subjected to R-rated fare, but were dragged to The Passion of the Christ by allegedly well-meaning parents and congregations?
Enron said:
Fixed.
Slurpy said:
You know, there's a LOT of people in "the church" (in fact, the vast majority) that think like the rest of us. Video games = no big deal. Violence in movies = no big deal. Hell, my family was religious and growing up my parents didnt give too much thought to movies and videogames. Ditto for nearly everyone I knew from church. Not all religious people are JESUS CAMP, you know.
Count Dookkake said:
I hate to break it to you, but content is never graded in the abstract on an objective scale. No one counts the pints of blood shed and the number of limbs removed and figures out exactly what the rating is. The Passion of the Christ was a story of faith and man's cruelty to man, among other things. Manhunt is a game made people known for doing violent things for attention where you could until recently rip a dude's nuts off with a pair of pliers and are still rewarded for good play with increasingly violent kills.
The aesthetic goals of a work can (and should) justify that work's content.
Pureauthor
Member
Is 'Jesus Camp' another way of saying 'Pentecostal'? Because if that's the case, then not all Pentecostals are uptight about this sort of thing either.
freethought
Member
Campster said:
Not every church in the world, just the ones in America. I suggest you read the piece again. FotF are specifically mentioned for a start, then there is the example of the church elders being uneasy about using a violent game until it's explained to them how effective it can be. If these same churches begin to host GTA parties then by all means tell me to STFU but I doubt this will be the case.
Please, if you're religious yourself don't mistake my contempt for this practice as contempt for religion but don't accuse me of hypocrisy and generalising when I'm guilty of neither.
Count Dookkake said:
Oh come on, now. What do you expect churches to do? Sit in their church, and never do any sort of community outreach? Well, actually, thats probably what you would LIKE them to do.
Its not any different from organizing a summer fair, a community dinner, or organizing a basketball team.
Count Dookkake
Member
Campster said:
I totally agree with this post (except your analysis of the script of Passion), but take a five year old to the Passion and see what happens. I get your point, but I am talking about children viewing it at their parent's behest, not the rating that it was awarded fairly like any other product.
Enron said:
That's why I said it is not a precedent setter. It is still a bait-and-switch tactic. Usually a product of such tremendous value as the real word of god should be able to advertise itself without relying on pop culture enticements. Community outreach is a great idea manifested by such things as fellowship meetings, bible discussion, helping the poor, etc. You know, the things that Christianity is allegedly about. Blowing up shit in space? Not so much.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
The biggest problem people have is that they see the church as one singular entity, with every part having the same thoughts and opinions. That's how people claim "hypocrisy!" when it comes to situations like this. It would only be hypocrisy if the same people that denounced videogames are the ones hosting this Halo event. And I doubt that the Colorado Community Church, the ones hosting the event, are the same people that denounced videogames as evil.Count Dookkake said:
The idea for this event wasn't reviewed by a committee, e-mailed to the church's local Methodist/Baptist Association for review -- it's not an "official stance" of the church. It was the local youth minister thinking, "kids love playing Halo. It might be pretty fun if we hosted an event where they could come and play with other kids."
Your statement "That such an institution engages in hypocrisy makes some of its other claims look suspect." is the favorite line that folks disliking the church deliver. But people need to understand that the church is ran by people. Even persons subscribing to the belief in a God or gods will admit that God himself doesn't sit in staff meetings every week and direct the actions of the Church. And people are going to be hypocrites, liars, and thieves. That's the reason most people go to church -- they realize they are these things and they want to make amends.
To denounce a belief system simply because you don't like its followers is always a mask for another reason. Typically, the other reason is that you just don't feel like fooling with it (all that religious business).
Herpes Reasons
Banned
GSG Flash said:
no, i've personally met a few of the Knesset Member in the israeli governement, plus i've watched enough of Ahmadinejad's conference dubbed "a world without zionism" to warrant a concern. And i dont have cable, thanks for trying though.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Church condemns game - GAF calls church dumb
Church says game is cool - GAF calls church dumb
processing.....
....
GAF is dumb
Yes, when will people come to appreciate everything games do for our society?
Church says game is cool - GAF calls church dumb
processing.....
....
GAF is dumb
Cruzader said:
Yes, when will people come to appreciate everything games do for our society?
Count Dookkake
Member
Cocopjojo said:
You may be right. But I am certain they are opposed to other virtual sins.
Cocopjojo said:
Which is a pretty good reason for it to be regarded with some skepticism about its various claims.
Cocopjojo said:
I have no problem with individual followers anymore than I have trouble with Goths or Trekkies. However, when they use a combination of denunciation and hypocrisy from on high, then it becomes troubling. True, I don't like fooling with religion, but it is because I see flaws in their philosphies and behaviors as institutions, not because of the day-to-day activities of the laypeople.
Pureauthor
Member
GSG Flash said:
Out of curiosity, who do you think is a good source for information on Iran?
Pureauthor said:
Why does this matter? If you're trying to defend him, take this into consideration, what value would you take in the opinions of an Iranian parliament member about Israel or the US? When two countries are enemies of each other, their respective government officials aren't exactly going to be objective when they talk about said opposing nation.
Count Dookkake
Member
AdmiralViscen said:
You are using different games from different contexts. In both situations the church in question is acting poorly in different ways.
AdmiralViscen said:
Like granting children a facility with computer interfaces, teaching them to navigate complicated 3-D spaces not available where they live, attracting more women to computing, etc.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
GSG Flash said:
what's a better source of information than the country attracting it? do you really think getting information is any better from a president who said i quote "wiping israel off the map" "no gays in iran" "the holocaust never existed" and "all islamic world"?
you really serious??
viakado said:
I should be asking you if you're serious. Hey maybe I'll take Ahmedinejad's opinions of Israel and the US and take it at face value, I mean he must be objective since he's a government official, right? You're doing that exact thing but in reverse.
Miniboss1232
Member
CushVA said:
Hey, Jesus was called both. By religious leaders, no less.
I don't see much of a problem with this. It's a nice thing to invite kids in, let them play a really cool game and be nice to them. If they hear any sort of message, let them decide whether to follow it or not.
Count Dookkake said:
Church of England, yes. I don't see how inviting kids in to play Halo is such a bad thing, though. If you think it's horrible that they're inviting kids in to brainwash them, you'd say the same thing about any tactics that they use. I'm inclined to agree with the point of the poster that you quoted though.