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[samoilaaa]

When ps5/xsx were announced they told us how much will be achieved with zen 2 cpu

• More detailed open worlds:
  The faster CPUs and potentially larger memory bandwidth will allow developers to create more detailed and expansive open-world environments with greater object density and draw distances.
  
  
• Increased NPC counts and AI:
  The improved processing power will allow for more complex AI systems and a greater number of NPCs in open-world games, leading to more dynamic and engaging gameplay.
  
  
• Enhanced physics and destruction:
  More powerful CPUs will enable more realistic physics simulations and greater levels of environmental destruction, adding another layer of immersion to open-world experiences.
  
  
• Faster loading times and streaming:
  While the SSD in current-generation consoles already helps with loading times, the next generation's advancements will further optimize the streaming of assets, allowing for even larger and more seamless open worlds.
  
  
• Potential for ray tracing in open worlds:
  While not directly tied to the CPU, the improved GPU capabilities, combined with the CPU's ability to handle more complex scenes, could lead to more widespread use of ray tracing in open-world games.

"In essence, the next generation of consoles is poised to deliver a significant leap forward in open-world game design, allowing for more immersive, detailed, and dynamic virtual worlds than ever before. "

The only thing that was came true was faster loading time , we got bigger worlds but filled with nothing , there was a moment when i was wowed and it was during the reveal of Ratchet and clank rift apart's cyberpunk city , so much was happening on the screen it was amazing , thats what i want to see next gen , keep the same size of the open worlds but fill them with more memorable encounters , improved NPC ai in the cities , i want them to have conversations that feel real and natural not repeating the same line every 5 seconds , KCD 2 almost achieved this and remains to be seen if GTA 6 will do it , rockstar was alway on top when it comes to AI and cities that feel alive

Next gen consoles will most likely have zen 6 cpus ( zen 7 if they release in 2029 which i doubt ) and 4090 level gpu ( if the leaks are true ) so there is no excuse to not have all those things listed above , only if they lack ambition

 

[MidGenRefresh]

they lack ambition

This. Not going to happen outside of 1-2 games.

 

[nani17]

Next gen needs to have more games and not just hey, remember that game on the PS4, now it's on PS5.

 

[SJRB]

Worlds are already way too big in many of today's games.

Look at AC Shadows, for example. You can play that game for 40 hours and still only have uncovered like 30% of the map. It's ridiculous, you can spend hours trekking along a lake encountering basically nothing interesting. The entire game is just empty roads to destinations you'll never visit again, it is the epitome of braindead gameplay. The game has 100 towns but there's zero reason to visit any of them so you just move along as they fade into a giant blur.

If the map size was 1/4 but more dense and filled with actual meaningful things the game's quality would improve dramatically.

 

[lh032]

open world design has nothing to do with hardware capabilities imo, thanks to ubisoft.

 

[PeteBull]

Next gen consoles will most likely have zen 6 cpus ( zen 7 if they release in 2029 which i doubt ) so there is no excuse to not have all those things listed above , only if they lack ambition

Zen2 launched july 2019 and we can be sure latest we gonna see ps6 is holidays 2028(slight chance it could be holidays 2027 but there will be so many companies fighting for new tsmc node that its unlikely sony gonna be competetive enough) so lets see what cpu amd will have by mid 2027, same with gpu(hoping ps6 will be ballpark of 4090, including its rt and ai upscaling capabilities).

So or so we can be sure hardware specs of ps6 will be great/worth it, likely console gonna be 999$ tho(at least if we add disc drive), but the biggest problem with making gaming worlds dense is amout of time/work dev studios need to sacrifice for that "next gen look/feel" across the board, not just in highly controlled cutscenes or scripted scenarios but overall in whole game, we know raytracing definitely helps with that coz things can be automated/highly recuded amount of handcrafted baked lighting so thats a big plus.

 

[HRK69]

Look at AC Shadows, for example. You can play that game for 40 hours and still only have uncovered like 30% of the map.

Yeah… if you're terrible at games, maybe

I finished most of the main story but dropped it because it got painfully repetitive. Eventually pushed myself to clear all the Points of Interest and question marks tapped out at 49 hours after seeing everything the map had to offer

 

[samoilaaa]

Zen2 launched july 2019 and we can be sure latest we gonna see ps6 is holidays 2028(slight chance it could be holidays 2027 but there will be so many companies fighting for new tsmc node that its unlikely sony gonna be competetive enough) so lets see what cpu amd will have by mid 2027, same with gpu(hoping ps6 will be ballpark of 4090, including its rt and ai upscaling capabilities).

So or so we can be sure hardware specs of ps6 will be great/worth it, likely console gonna be 999$ tho(at least if we add disc drive), but the biggest problem with making gaming worlds dense is amout of time/work dev studios need to sacrifice for that "next gen look/feel" across the board, not just in highly controlled cutscenes or scripted scenarios but overall in whole game, we know raytracing definitely helps with that coz things can be automated/highly recuded amount of handcrafted baked lighting so thats a big plus.

to be honest i would be ok with 999$ as long as we get a great AAA 1st party game every month

 

[SJRB]

Yeah… if you're terrible at games, maybe

I finished most of the main story but dropped it because it got painfully repetitive. Eventually pushed myself to clear all the Points of Interest and question marks tapped out at 49 hours after seeing everything the map had to offer

So what you're saying is you disagree but also had to force yourself to basically speedrun through the game to get all the points of interest, had zero fun doing it and it was painfully repetitive because the map is so ridiculously large.

How does that disprove my point, exactly?

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

It should be about better mechanics, open world and quest design, definitely.

 

[SkylineRKR]

It should be about less bloat.

 

[ResilientBanana]

They will give you native 4k instead… maybe.

 

[HRK69]

So what you're saying is you disagree but also had to force yourself to basically speedrun through the game to get all the points of interest, had zero fun doing it and it was painfully repetitive because the map is so ridiculously large.

Who said I had zero fun?

How does that disprove my point, exactly?

Really?

Your claim is that it takes 40 hours to see just 30% of the map, how did I manage to clear EVERYTHING in 49 hours?

And I'm not talking about casually riding through the map. I did the objectives/locations too.

 

[Kikorin]

Instead we'll have 4k/60-120fps/ray-tracing and exactly same playing and looking games like 2 gens before.

 

[Three]

When ps5/xsx were announced they told us how much will be achieved with zen 2 cpu

• More detailed open worlds:
  The faster CPUs and potentially larger memory bandwidth will allow developers to create more detailed and expansive open-world environments with greater object density and draw distances.
  
  
• Increased NPC counts and AI:
  The improved processing power will allow for more complex AI systems and a greater number of NPCs in open-world games, leading to more dynamic and engaging gameplay.
  
  
• Enhanced physics and destruction:
  More powerful CPUs will enable more realistic physics simulations and greater levels of environmental destruction, adding another layer of immersion to open-world experiences.
  
  
• Faster loading times and streaming:
  While the SSD in current-generation consoles already helps with loading times, the next generation's advancements will further optimize the streaming of assets, allowing for even larger and more seamless open worlds.
  
  
• Potential for ray tracing in open worlds:
  While not directly tied to the CPU, the improved GPU capabilities, combined with the CPU's ability to handle more complex scenes, could lead to more widespread use of ray tracing in open-world games.

"In essence, the next generation of consoles is poised to deliver a significant leap forward in open-world game design, allowing for more immersive, detailed, and dynamic virtual worlds than ever before. "

The only thing that was came true was faster loading time , we got bigger worlds but filled with nothing , there was a moment when i was wowed and it was during the reveal of Ratchet and clank rift apart's cyberpunk city , so much was happening on the screen it was amazing , thats what i want to see next gen , keep the same size of the open worlds but fill them with more memorable encounters , improved NPC ai in the cities , i want them to have conversations that feel real and natural not repeating the same line every 5 seconds , KCD 2 almost achieved this and remains to be seen if GTA 6 will do it , rockstar was alway on top when it comes to AI and cities that feel alive

Next gen consoles will most likely have zen 6 cpus ( zen 7 if they release in 2029 which i doubt ) and 4090 level gpu ( if the leaks are true ) so there is no excuse to not have all those things listed above , only if they lack ambition

Denser worlds doesn't require "next gen" at all. It just requires hand crafted content to create that density. ie effort and huge budget, things that are not improving in todays gaming landscape.

 

[phant0m]

Instead we'll have 4k/60-120fps/ray-tracing

Don't worry, they'll add some new tech like path tracing and we'll still be stuck at 4K/30 for "quality" modes

 

[Durin]

I don't really think ray-tracing is in the cards for consoles this gen, even if you reduce the size of an open-world. The rendering budget would better be spent elsewhere, but I do agree too many resources are spent filling up the world...when the real issue is the variety and quality of content offered in whatever scope world you're gonna make.

Also, given the dev cycles of AAA games going from 4+ years at minimum now...I'd also just take a drop in detail if these things could come out more often, and have less performance problems.

 

[Clear]

Density is a double-edged sword. Too little is bad, but too much is arguably even worse because not only is having stuff constantly in the player's face tiring, but its a wasted effort on the development side.

The best games allow players a certain amount of breathing room while feeding in points/elements of interest at a steady cadence.

Same thing applies to NPC's. People are interested in/engaged by individuated characters, just having more for the sake of more is just clutter.

Gamer's need to wrap their heads around the idea that its about quality and flow more than sheer volume.

 

[phant0m]

I don't really think ray-tracing is in the cards for consoles this gen, even if you reduce the size of an open-world. The rendering budget would better be spent elsewhere, but I do agree too many resources are spent filling up the world...when the real issue is the variety and quality of content offered in whatever scope world you're gonna make.

Also, given the dev cycles of AAA games going from 4+ years at minimum now...I'd also just take a drop in detail if these things could come out more often, and have less performance problems.

We don't want a drop in detail, we want a drop in scope. Modern open world games are huge with a lot of barren space, places you never return to, and task/quest checklists. Make places, quests and characters meaningful again. Also bring back player choice. Not just dialogue but gameplay choices - it felt like we had a lot of that in the PS360 gen but it kinda disappeared.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

I dont want more shit to pick up or boxes to kick over, I want more things to do and more meaningful interaction.

 

[samoilaaa]

Density is a double-edged sword. Too little is bad, but too much is arguably even worse because not only is having stuff constantly in the player's face tiring, but its a wasted effort on the development side.

The best games allow players a certain amount of breathing room while feeding in points/elements of interest at a steady cadence.

Same thing applies to NPC's. People are interested in/engaged by individuated characters, just having more for the sake of more is just clutter.

Gamer's need to wrap their heads around the idea that its about quality and flow more than sheer volume.

too much isnt too bad as long as its not bloat , games like AC has alot of content , just look at an fully explored map how many icons are there , the problem is that 90% of that is useless crap , its like an excuse to make the game feel longer so you dont feel bad that you spent 70$ on it

 

[BennyBlanco]

It should be about less bloat.

This. BG3 is a huge game with 0 bloat.

 

[Durin]

We don't want a drop in detail, we want a drop in scope. Modern open world games are huge with a lot of barren space, places you never return to, and task/quest checklists. Make places, quests and characters meaningful again. Also bring back player choice. Not just dialogue but gameplay choices - it felt like we had a lot of that in the PS360 gen but it kinda disappeared.

That's the thing, I have no faith they can increase the detail, when current games with the detail they have lead to performance problems already.

Maybe in the next generation where they will have AI chips doing neural rendering that drops the memory cost of most assets we can see an increase again...but for this gen I think it's capped unless you want games to just take the same amount of time or longer to make.

I'd rather go back to a time when these larger devs could output 3-4 games a gen at minimum, and lowering fidelity is the only way to get there.

 

[Clear]

too much isnt too bad as long as its not bloat , games like AC has alot of content , just look at an fully explored map how many icons are there , the problem is that 90% of that is useless crap , its like an excuse to make the game feel longer so you dont feel bad that you spent 70$ on it

More than you want to deal with = "bloat". Stuff you don't deem valuable = "bloat".

Like I said its not a quantity issue, the key thing is how and when its presented to the player. Games are inevitably going to involve repetitive actions, it materially doesn't matter if its collectible "stars" or icons on a map, the difference is how its perceived in the context of the game,

 

[Gonzito]

Agreed. I want hubs like Deus Ex with depth, meaning and purpose, I am sick of huge open worlds with constant empty spaces that bring nothing to the table

 

[FeralEcho]

Next gen should be about games not taking 50 fucking years to come out.

Bring me the graphics of PS3 with the same amount of new IPs,trilogies and stories like in that era. Stop expanding everything to insane levels,no one is clamoring for worlds bigger than their own state,no one is gonna watch horse balls as they bounce around realistically,no one is gonna look at the blades of grass not being detailed enough. STOP BALOONING BUDGETS AND DEVELOPMENT CYCLES!!!

After GTA6,I hope the entire industry moves on from this hyper realistic hyper detailed ambition because everyone should know nothing will come close to that! Just get back instead to making fun stories and don't take 6 years for 1 game.

 

[Melon Husk]

More interactive, like BOTW. Not necessarily denser. BOTW is almost empty but it's more fun than other open-world games of that size.

We should move past the 1-dimensional interactivity of "immersive sim" where you can turn a faucet on/off.

The way BOTW simulates fire, ice and temperature in general is fun.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

That's why Elder Scrolls and Fallout games both starting from 3 onward is the best as there's so much to do and has great lore and replay value to them too. Plus mods giving endless potential.

 

[Audiophile]

Wanna see rich, living futuristic worlds like this that are also dense, explorable and interactive:

 

[Buggy Loop]

Physics don't need the "oh next gen we'll have the processing power!"

They were COMPLETELY put aside when in fact in the early 2000's it looked like it would be the future

The rise in popularity of consoles meant cutoffs had to happen and after marketing teams found the mould that is just enough to sell games (screenshots) then physics were set aside.

Just take a look at graphical fidelity thread, peoples not caring about how a game does a solution, they want pure fidelity with unrealistic expectations nor understanding of game design. These are the peoples that sadly marketing aims at and the rest of the gamers suffer for. They just need to add the new shiny coat of paint.

Outside of open world, most of AI and physics were done a while ago

Somehow the knowledge is fucking lost





And its only gonna get worse when ecosystems like UE5, take note here I said ecosystem, not graphic engine, makes AAA studios use cheap labour countries to program their "good enough" new coat of paint because UE5 ecosystem means anyone from anywhere can understand or knows the engine from a huge catalog of help topics. This means that studios fired the graphic engine nerds a long time ago. So to do anything exotic or more thought of than the status quo you're royally fucked.

Indies is where it's at for breaking the mould

 

[samoilaaa]

Wanna see rich, living futuristic worlds like this that are also dense, explorable and interactive:

if orion looks like this

 

[Von Hugh]

Agree 100 %.

It is such an uncanny valley and immersion breaker when you have a massive city, but you have nothing to interact with. Nothing to do. No meaningful content. NPCs are just some people you can run over. Can't go inside buildings or even talk to anyone.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

When ps5/xsx were announced they told us how much will be achieved with zen 2 cpu

• More detailed open worlds:
  The faster CPUs and potentially larger memory bandwidth will allow developers to create more detailed and expansive open-world environments with greater object density and draw distances.
  
  
• Increased NPC counts and AI:
  The improved processing power will allow for more complex AI systems and a greater number of NPCs in open-world games, leading to more dynamic and engaging gameplay.
  
  
• Enhanced physics and destruction:
  More powerful CPUs will enable more realistic physics simulations and greater levels of environmental destruction, adding another layer of immersion to open-world experiences.
  
  
• Faster loading times and streaming:
  While the SSD in current-generation consoles already helps with loading times, the next generation's advancements will further optimize the streaming of assets, allowing for even larger and more seamless open worlds.
  
  
• Potential for ray tracing in open worlds:
  While not directly tied to the CPU, the improved GPU capabilities, combined with the CPU's ability to handle more complex scenes, could lead to more widespread use of ray tracing in open-world games.

"In essence, the next generation of consoles is poised to deliver a significant leap forward in open-world game design, allowing for more immersive, detailed, and dynamic virtual worlds than ever before. "

The only thing that was came true was faster loading time , we got bigger worlds but filled with nothing , there was a moment when i was wowed and it was during the reveal of Ratchet and clank rift apart's cyberpunk city , so much was happening on the screen it was amazing , thats what i want to see next gen , keep the same size of the open worlds but fill them with more memorable encounters , improved NPC ai in the cities , i want them to have conversations that feel real and natural not repeating the same line every 5 seconds , KCD 2 almost achieved this and remains to be seen if GTA 6 will do it , rockstar was alway on top when it comes to AI and cities that feel alive

Next gen consoles will most likely have zen 6 cpus ( zen 7 if they release in 2029 which i doubt ) and 4090 level gpu ( if the leaks are true ) so there is no excuse to not have all those things listed above , only if they lack ambition

We're basically still playing prettier PS3/360 games, just prettier

 

[Audiophile]

if orion looks like this

 

[Hudo]

It's not about the size, it's about how you use it.

 

[samoilaaa]

It's not about the size, it's about how you use it.

if only that were true

 

[thief183]

I am on the other side in this, I want realistic open worlds, I'm sick of city at war that are 30 seconds on foot apart, then again I'm not in a hurry when I play a game and fomo is something I really can't understand. I take my time and explore, give me some tool to go around faster and some believable teleportation method (morrowind was perfect in this regard.)

 

[Xtib81]

I fully agree but Funnily enough, I heard the exact same thing before this gen.. 5 years in and nothing in the games we play has changed.

 

[simpatico]

Why are so many people convinced that open worlds are the only way forward for nearly any genre? How did this become the status quo? Is it a side effect of the GTA success? We're not seeing it pay anyone dividends, if anything the opposite is true.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Next Gen is going to be more about GAAS, GAAS and more GAAS.

 

[IDKFA]

Why not both? Why can't I have a map the same size as England set in the 1400s, complete with accurate size towns and cities?

 

[Laptop1991]

I agree totally, but will the industry do it, doesn't look like it so far.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

That's why I dislike GTA. Too open, too many fetch bs, and while "open world", it's too dense.

Only open world game I ever enjoyed was ER.

 

[genesisblock]

Physics don't need the "oh next gen we'll have the processing power!"

They were COMPLETELY put aside when in fact in the early 2000's it looked like it would be the future

The rise in popularity of consoles meant cutoffs had to happen and after marketing teams found the mould that is just enough to sell games (screenshots) then physics were set aside.

Just take a look at graphical fidelity thread, peoples not caring about how a game does a solution, they want pure fidelity with unrealistic expectations nor understanding of game design. These are the peoples that sadly marketing aims at and the rest of the gamers suffer for. They just need to add the new shiny coat of paint.

Outside of open world, most of AI and physics were done a while ago

Somehow the knowledge is fucking lost





And its only gonna get worse when ecosystems like UE5, take note here I said ecosystem, not graphic engine, makes AAA studios use cheap labour countries to program their "good enough" new coat of paint because UE5 ecosystem means anyone from anywhere can understand or knows the engine from a huge catalog of help topics. This means that studios fired the graphic engine nerds a long time ago. So to do anything exotic or more thought of than the status quo you're royally fucked.

Indies is where it's at for breaking the mould

Interesting that you would say this when R* released Red Dead Redemption and GTAV and now 6 which is the only major franchises then emphasizes physics. And those games pretty much dominate the sales and reception wise.

All the so-called "best" graphics games don't even compare to the success these games provided so you should be wondering why the marketing team would not follow the leader on this!

 

[nemiroff]

The only thing more stupid than making a huge useless world (not talking about op) is to set a bunch stupid arbitrary rules or limits on it.

Let the artists make it, then we judge it.

 

[Sooner]

These kinds of discussions are just about software design and not hardware generations.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Interesting that you would say this when R* released Red Dead Redemption and GTAV and now 6 which is the only major franchises then emphasizes physics. And those games pretty much dominate the sales and reception wise.

All the so-called "best" graphics games don't even compare to the success these games provided so you should be wondering why the marketing team would not follow the leader on this!

GTA V which had worse physics than IV? Sure?

Sony games make hand over fist cash with pretty graphics and outclass the Crysis, Refd faction and FEAR of this world. How much you think crysis sold? Hint not that much.

 

[kiphalfton]

All that stupid crap in the background, is unecessary. Male AI better, improve story and quests, etc.

 

[winjer]

The reason why open worlds are as big as an ocean, but as deep as a pool is not due to hardware limitations. It's due to developer choices.
Wasting player time with nonsensical trekking is a way to pad play time. Or worse, a way to force the player to waste money in mounts and micro-transactions.
It's not difficult to create a huge open world. Even in the 90s, there were games with huge worlds.
The difficult part is to fill that world with interesting things for the player to do.
That takes a lot of time, talent and effort, to create characters, quests, activities that are fun to play.
But most devs just fill it with repetitive grind.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

From memory, Elden Ring and Tears of the Kingdom have been the only open world games this generation that I've found interesting. Most other open world titles have been the same boring shit that I spend a couple of hours playing and then drop them.