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LordOfChaos
Member
Zen 2 sizzle reel, 10 days till release and reviews
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FranXico
Member
I think he's just trying his idea of protectionism.
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Whitecrow
Banned
It depends... do you only care about resolution? A lot of TVs will serve you.
Do you have any clue about input lag, contrast, image quality...? Then you gotta spend some more money.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
nowhat
Member
If you're being serious - 8K native, hell no. What we'll probably see is the same thing as with a Pro - non-native 8K resolution, but UI/HUD native 8K.
But unless you have a huge TV, or are glued to it, you will not see the difference (between 4K and 8K) in typical viewing conditions.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Yep, Intel is really late to PCI-E 4.0, would be a really good time for AMD to capitalize on it with Rome. Brand new Mac Pro is shipping PCI-E 3.0 when AMD will be shipping 4.0 in 10 days.
Intel Internal Memo Leak Reveals They’re Impressed with AMD
An internal memo leaked from Intel makes the honest (if someone embarrassing) admission that they are impressed with AMDs processors.
www.eteknix.com
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xool
Member
If 8k tv/monitor gets market penetration fast enough I'm expecting another mid gen refresh to do 8k properly..
..not expecting baseline consoles to do 8k outside a couple special cases
you might want to check out the 8k size/viewing distances tables first too (my desk isn't big enough, and there isn't really a wall wide enough to fit an 8k tv )
[angular resolution of eye = 1 arcminute = 0.00029 rad .. @ ~2 meters = 6x10-4m minimum resolvable feature size = 0.6mm .. @8000pixels stepped across diagonal = 4.8m diagonal]
Run that one again - with a tv less than ~5m(16ft) diagonal at over 2m viewdistance you won't be able to detect difference between pixels - at lower screen sizes there'll be a subjective "sharpness" difference that money can't put a value on .
tldr for most people 8k is just free anti-aliasing
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luca_29_bg
Member
this looks interesting...
xool
Member
Commented before on this - but looks crazy to me - they say "SPECULATION" at the top of the page, then quote die yields to 2 decimal places -
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Fake
Member
Acutally cheap TV are terfible in many ways.
Image quality, sound quality from TV speakers, game mode... All those CAN be compromisse.
They're overall bad. I highly don't recommend take my experience in example.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The main problem (outside of not being able to tell the difference like you said) is there's literally no 8K content. 90% or more channels on cable/satellite are 1080p\i right now. And 4K TVs have been selling for reasonable prices for at least 3 years now.
Imagine the bitrate that would be needed to watch a Netflix TV show in 8K HDR.
ResilientBanana
Member
At only 9.75TF, mind you. However, nVidia is still more efficient at 8TF. The retail cost of the 5700XT is around $450. While that may not reflect console cost, the 580 was at $250 and was the chip used for the Xbox One X which retailed at $500. I think we will be looking at $600 consoles if this GPU is used.
Matches Vega 7, RTX 2070.
Beats Vega64 by a margin.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Matches Vega 7, RTX 2070.
Beats Vega64 by a margin.
If we got that I wouldn't be too upset. Vega 64++ performance in a cheaper part is pretty well what I was expecting a year ago, any surprises to the upside will just be added good news. That's a fair lead over the 64 too.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Seems to support AMD's claim that 5700 XT beats Vega 64 by 14%, this is even higher. Using AMD's own slides, I came out to Radeon VII being ~9% more powerful than 5700 XT, while the 5700XT is about 14% faster than Vega 64. On PC I don't think pulling ~230W will be a huge deal, but in the console space that's a lot of power consumption.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah but the PCs aren't coming out for another 18 months, so.......we'll be fine.
@1878MHZ clocks, so actually 9.6TF
In any case, a card between 5700 and XT (~8.3TF) would match Vega64 performance and be few percent slower then Nvidia 2070.
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ResilientBanana
Member
The PC’s?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
lol. Meant the "consoles".
Whitecrow
Banned
Luckily, I use TV only for gaming, so since image quality is important for gaming, I will not get less than a $1000+ QLED.
ResilientBanana
Member
While this is true, I don't see AMD shoving anything bigger than the 5700XT into the console. Heat would be an even bigger issue than it is now.
Fake
Member
My take on this is: Cheap 4K TV are horrible and must be ignored (becaming the actual 1080p TV from old gen), but middle range and high end 4K TV could get a price discount with time making more affordable.
Imtjnotu
Member
GPU prices do not reflect the same as console gpu prices
LordOfChaos
Member
Larger, slower clocked chips can actually be a power saving measure
IGPs got larger for years, even on years they went sideways on performance, because they could clock lower to do the same task, saving power.
ethomaz
Banned
That is not good for Next-gen
Matches Vega 7, RTX 2070.
Beats Vega64 by a margin.
Similar hardware found in Xbox One X can reach 8k in that benchmark.
PS. Assuming Next-gen will use simular GPU... it needs a way better one imo.
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ArabianPrynce
Member
SonGoku
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT5| - It's in RDNA OT
If my word was worth anything, I can confirm that nextgen GPUs ARE Navi 10 aka RDNA 1.0. There is a lot of talk about RT, and how that's an RDN 2.0 feature, but it's very very common to see console APUs be more of a .5 variant of a chip, being based on specific gen but incorporating some...
www.resetera.com
CyberPanda
Banned
Dictator from DF weighing in.
Even they aren’t buying crapgamers video. What third party dev is gonna go on a no name YouTube video and break NDA facing potential lawsuit and also get fired? Crapgamer btw has used MisterXMedia as a source for his info on various occasions. Yea, ew.
Yea, it’s best to temper expectations. Otherwise a lot are gonna be disappointed.That is not good for Next-gen
Similar hardware found in Xbox One X can reach 8k in that benchmark.
PS. Assuming Next-gen will use simular GPU... it needs a way better one imo.
And looking at the benchmark :
-NVidia's GPUs still have 25% higher IPC compared to AMD
-AMD needs to keep focus on IPC increases now to fully catch up
- next year NVidia will have 7nm chips which will widen the gap again.
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You are looking at wrong results. I doubt Xbox one X reaches ⅝K here, let alone 8.That is not good for Next-gen
Similar hardware found in Xbox One X can reach 8k in that benchmark.
PS. Assuming Next-gen will use simular GPU... it needs a way better one imo.
ethomaz
Banned
What the podcast said? I have an ideia but it is good to see what Crapgamers has to say.
Even they aren’t buying crapgamers video. What third party dev is gonna go on a no name YouTube video and break NDA facing potential lawsuit and also get fired? Crapgamer btw has used MisterXMedia as a source for his info on various occasions. Yea, ew.
DJ12
Member
Isn't that because despite devs either saying, they are on par or PS5 is stronger, the Xbox fans just cannot get hold of the idea that Scarellet might be weaker, hence why anyone saying one console is stronger, significantly gets grasped to with a vice like grip.
Anyway, that guy as obviously parroting what we have all read from the various pastebin and twitter comments.
ethomaz
Banned
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Yeah, RX 580 should be between 4500-5000(gfx). I did see some results on the 3DMark database that showed ~9k(gfx), but those are probably incorrectly reporting from crossfire setup.
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MSI Radeon RX 580 Gaming X review (Page 27)
We review the MSI Radeon RX 580 GAMING X armed with 8GB. This TwinFrozr VI cooled mainstream graphics card series will allow you to play your games in both the Full HD 1080P range as well as gaming in...
www.guru3d.com
4776
Vega64 is not 8K (with 64CUs) how would RX580 be?
ResilientBanana
Member
I know, that's why I mentioned that. Where I wrote " it may not reflect console cost" but it is a good way to measure a generalized cost. We aren't going to get $500 to $800 13TF GPU's in these consoles. It's stupid to think so.
This whole conversation reminds me of a time when people thought Ryzen was going to be in the Xbox One X.
Xbox Scorpio Mentioned on Video at AMD's CES 2017 Ryzen/Vega Booth
An Xbox Scorpio slide was spotted at AMD's CES 2017 RYZEN/Vega booth, fueling speculation that the console might use the new architectures.
wccftech.com
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I know, that's why I mentioned that. Where I wrote " it may not reflect console cost" but it is a good way to measure a generalized cost. We aren't going to get $500 to $800 13TF GPU's in these consoles. It's stupid to think so.
This whole conversation reminds me of a time when people thought Ryzen was going to be in the Xbox One X.The timelines match up too 16 months6-8Months before release people thought it would have Ryzen and were let down when they found out is was still Jaguar even though the evidence was right in their faces that it was never going to happen.
Xbox Scorpio Mentioned on Video at AMD's CES 2017 Ryzen/Vega Booth
An Xbox Scorpio slide was spotted at AMD's CES 2017 RYZEN/Vega booth, fueling speculation that the console might use the new architectures.
But couldn't we get 10 TF GPUs with ray-tracing hardware built-in?
ResilientBanana
Member
RT is already confirmed. With the 5700XT at 9.75TF I'd expect that number to go down rather than up. Let's all try to be a bit realistic about this and consider anything above that number to be a blessing from the gaming gods. They are not going to be using Desktop hardware either.
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NickFire
Member
Oh man. Are we really already down to 10 TF? After all the rumors and speculation of teens to mid 20's, 10 just seems so boring.
Lone Wolf
Member
We were up to the mid 20’s at one point? We are out of hand and deserve punishment.
Mass Shift
Member
ResilientBanana
Neither MS or Sony EVER pay msrp. They're typically only spending 1/3rd of the retail costs that we pay for cpus and graphic cards.
$800 GPU? Consumer pays full msrp. Because MS and Sony are buying millions of these chips they would only be paying about $266. IF they're even paying that much. AMD furnishes great arrangements for them because they are both apart of their daily revenue streams.
Actually less then that. 100-130$ per APU Id say.
Neither MS or Sony EVER pay msrp. They're typically only spending 1/3rd of the retail costs that we pay for cpus and graphic cards.
$800 GPU? Consumer pays full msrp. Because MS and Sony are buying millions of these chips they would only be paying about $266. IF they're even paying that much. AMD furnishes great arrangements for them because they are both apart of their daily revenue streams.
Note that they put a whole lot of $$ in designing of these APUs, especially in 7nm, and that is not being counted into costs, but is for when AMD/Nvidia sell you GPU.
They have separate cooling and memory that is not counted into SOC costs.
Imtjnotu
Member
Don't think he gets that. 7870 was around $350 bucks and launch but Sony the but the ps4 apu cost was $105
Neither MS or Sony EVER pay msrp. They're typically only spending 1/3rd of the retail costs that we pay for cpus and graphic cards.
$800 GPU? Consumer pays full msrp. Because MS and Sony are buying millions of these chips they would only be paying about $266. IF they're even paying that much. AMD furnishes great arrangements for them because they are both apart of their daily revenue streams.
FranXico
Member
PS4 Portable? What is this? Fanfiction?
FrostyJ93
Member
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.t3...ly-moly-xbox-two-has-a-hell-of-a-fight-coming This and based on dev comments and rumors PS5 is indeed a monster as RuthenicCookie leaked.
ResilientBanana
Member
Neither MS or Sony EVER pay msrp. They're typically only spending 1/3rd of the retail costs that we pay for cpus and graphic cards.
$800 GPU? Consumer pays full msrp. Because MS and Sony are buying millions of these chips they would only be paying about $266. IF they're even paying that much. AMD furnishes great arrangements for them because they are both apart of their daily revenue streams.
Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I understand they do not pay MSRP for their material. It is clear to me that they receive a discounted price and they they simply buy the SOC. I'm basing my opinions off of the Xbox One X which is the most recent Console released and the price it released at. If we are trying to stay at $500 price range, I have a hard time believing we will be going beyond something similar to the 5700 series range.
Timespy DX12 benchmarks :
Navi XT (9.6TF - 1.83 clock) - 8.7K
Vega64 (12.6TF) - 7.4K
Vega56 (10.5TF) - 6.3K
Firestrike benchmark :
Gonzalo (Zen2 3700 @ 3.2/Navi) - 20K
Vega64 with 2700X - 22K+
Vega56 with 2700X - 18-19K
What to make of this? Navi XT has higher synthetic benchmarks then Vega64 and Vega56.
If same turns out true in Firestrike as well, we can expect Navi XT to score 22K plus with Zen2 (as to my estimates).
So what is inside next gen boxes? I would assume, as I have since begining, something between 5700 and XT.
Best to check everything by yourself, then fall into trap of overhyping vlogers.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
The summer before the PS4 launch the 7790 was $99, 7850 2GB was $150, and the 7870 2GB GHZ was $175. All with free games. The RX 470(faster than PS4 Pro) was $179 and the Xbox One X got a RX 480 OC/RX 580 which launched at $239.
Retail pricing isn't a direct indicator of much except cards in the same performance tiers have been getting more expensive. Looking at average gaming power consumption, the 7850 = 90W, 7870 = 105W, RX 470 = 125W, RX 480 = 163W. Peak system power consumption for PS4 Base = 148W, PS4 Pro = 155W, Xbox One X = 175W. 5700 Pro = 180W(TBP), 5700 XT = 225W(TBP).
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