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[BluRayHiDef]

Okay, I did my own research and learned that the rumor that Sony intends to simultaneously release a base-model PlayStation 5 and a PlayStation 5 Pro at launch stem from a renowned Japanese journalist, Zenji Nishikawa.

According to this article, Nishikawa states that he heard that there would be two such SKUs of the PlayStation 5 at the Computer Entertainment Developers Conference of 2019. He supposedly says this about 29 minutes into the video below; however, the video is in Japanese.

What do you guys and girls think? Bollocks or plausible? Perhaps the less powerful one of the two SKUs is comprised of APUs that failed to meet the yield standards of the more powerful one.

 

[SportsFan581]

Well no shit. But you could technically expect a game like HZD2 to work on a 4TF system without Ray-Tracing and various other graphical settings turned off.

The hard reality is that anything programmed on PS5 probably could be ported to Switch. LOL

We've far passed the point of GPUs that are weak enough to directly effect scale (lack of polygons etc.). You could just lower resolution and lower the base LOD, say you have 10 detail targets, you ignore the top 4 and start the progression at 6.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Possible, but highly unlikely, especially considering the current economic downfall in the world. A lot of people will go for cheaper options. We'll see how it plays out in the end.

And alot of PS4 owners are already pretty invested in Sonys ecosystem. There's a pretty high chance that they won't go to Xbox.

I guess we have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Akuji]

Just wondering why Cerny didn't go with leviathan instead of kraken?

well small numbers make it a bit more difficult to get the diffrences in the right perspective.

while Leviathan is better in Compression Ratio by roughly 20-30% the decompresion speed diffrence from 3 to 5% is a diffrence of 66%.
Only decryption speed is important because thats what u actually feed the system memory. The compression rate is the filesize stored on your SSD.
So while 100GB data with Leviathan will now need 130GB with Kraken on your SSD, the SSD can now feed the RAM with 66% more data theoretical.
Depends on bottlenecks in the SSD and whatever.

There is no compression used inside the RAM, that would make acess times way to slow. So the System is : 5.5GB Compressed Data from your SSD -> Decompression Chip ( 66% modifier in this example ) -> 9.13 GB raw Data
with leviathan you would have 5.5GB Compressed Data from your SSD -> Decompression Chip ( 30% in this example ) -> 7.15GB raw Data

Keep in mind that this calculation is completly false for real life usage, its just to see the diffrence in Kraken vs Leviathan, both start with a 0% value from the weak part of each solution.
Thats not how it is in the real world. Data rates would be even higher but that goes to both. for example if hypotheticly the Leviathan Decompress rate is already 1.5 meaning that 1 GB compressed would result in 1.5GB uncompressed then u get a 50% speed bonus
on BOTH of the Solutions.

English isnt my 1st Language so writing down something technical is a chore to me. I guess it will be really hard to understand for anyone but after writing it i thought i may as well post it. Maybe it will help someone what i think of it.

tl;dr : compression rate -> filesize on SSD , compression speed -> how much raw data u can feed your actual system ram.
but if you have a chip that can decrypt unlimited data in any given timeframe u then get data capped by SSD speed and compression rate.

if u have unlimited decompression speed and your ssd is 10gb/s while your compression rate is 30% u get 13gb/s no matter how much theoretical speed u have, because u hit another bottleneck.
if u have 60% decompression ratio u get 16GB/s.

sooo whatever its getting even more confusing i guess and this is no tl:dr anymore.

cheers.

 

[Shmunter]

Well no shit. But you could technically expect a game like HZD2 to work on a 4TF system without Ray-Tracing and various other graphical settings turned off.

Ray tracing and those other graphical features just become a token gesture in such a 2 sku environment - assuming they even make it in. Instead of a dev going super hard on innovating, squeezing and optimising for those features like crazy having a 12tf baseline.

Considering the realities of budgets, the cherry on top will be neglected especially if install base ratio is low. How many games are built with a 2080ti as target GPU? None, all you get is diminishing returns.

There's no super crazy logic in this, it's plain to see.

 

[Insane Metal]

Edit posted on the wrong thread.

 

[splattered]

Nice to see this thread has once again gone to complete and utter shit.

Hopefully we start to see some next gen games soon.

All this talk of hopeful advantages is getting extremely old extremely fast.

 

[Kusarigama]

This has been covered many times before - there won't be any difference in graphics, features or gameplay between XBSS and XBSX. Lockhart will simply have target resolution of 1080p instead of 4K. That's it. No additional effort from developers to adapt games to XBSS, except changing the target resolution and only a bit more work for testers.

The differences will not limited to only resolution. The X1S version of Gears 5 runs at 1080p/30fps and X1X version at 4k/60fps. However these are not the only differences between the two, a lot of other graphical details are absent on the X1S version, like reflections. You can see the digital foundry analysis of Gears 5 for more.

The gameplay design will be dictated by the lower performance machine while the higher performance machine will get better graphical features/resolution/framerates.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Does 4TF make sense in the scope of the next-gen market?

If it's basically the same console as XSX but with a worse GPU, how does that reflect on building cost? How much can they realistically shave off the RRP? $100? $150 max? Maybe they can go a bit cheaper on storage as well, selling it with a tiny SSD and relying mostly on memory expansion units?

Would it just be an XSX with a third of the CUs? Does that even make sense architecture- and optimization-wise?

Less CUs, less memory, less storage space, maybe less memory bandwidth. Everything else must be the same so they can just scale resolution and fps down to 1080p60, that's the only way for Lockart to not drag SX back. And I agree, wondering how they can lower the price enough for it to make sense as a budget option.

 

[Insane Metal]

 

[hemo memo]

So what? that will only change the way a game looks, not how it plays.

The way a game looks is important for immersion so that's important too.

 

[SportsFan581]

I wonder how much they will reserve. MS has lowered their OS footprint by 1/2 to 1GB also.

 

[Radical_3d]

Possible, but highly unlikely, especially considering the current economic downfall in the world. A lot of people will go for cheaper options. We'll see how it plays out in the end.

Spain was one of the hardest countries hit by the past economic recession. Here the crisis lasted from 2007 to 2013 at the very least. On top of that we've always been quite poor. Here the 360 has always been cheaper than the PS3 and yet Sony outsold MS by a smashing ratio. Even now you can find the XOX one hundred euros cheaper than the PSPro and all PS4s are sold out due to the quarantine.

TL;DR. If price were the main factor in a purchase Apple wouldn't sell a single phone.

 

[Self High Five]

This has been covered many times before - there won't be any difference in graphics, features or gameplay between XBSS and XBSX. Lockhart will simply have target resolution of 1080p instead of 4K. That's it. No additional effort from developers to adapt games to XBSS, except changing the target resolution and only a bit more work for testers.

This is literally wishful thinking because there is no evidence to support this theory since the console is just a rumor at this point. Just because posters on the internet (discord) ad nauseam parrot the same talking points doesn't make it true. We simply don't know yet.

What we do know that the PS4, which has the almost the same CPU and slightly less RAM than the mid gen refresh (which is rumored what Lockhart will have as well compared to PS5/XSX) has been struggling with performance issues with big titles in the past year compared to Pro/X1. Is it indicative of what will come for Lockhart? I don't know. It doesn't have the same disparity in GPU power but it won't be the main platform for devs either like the PS4.

All in all, Lockhart does not suck, it is a game changer that will allow millions of people to enter next-gen for cheap as long as they are fine with 1080p resolution. And if it is actually released on holidays 2020, it will have the biggest impact on competition with PS5. Sony has nothing to counter Lockhart.

Another wishful thinking part of your post. There is no evidence to suggest this either. Gamers are made up certain audiences. The same people who bought an Xbox One or PS4 in 2013 are not the same audience that bought one in 2016 or in 2019, etc.

Who is the audience? The hardcore console gamer? Well, their buying the PS5 or Series X. The casual gamer? How casual are we talking about? The people who are interested in consoles at cheaper price point? Well, they likely bought a PS4 or XB1 in the last two-three years. Why would they be in a rush to replace a console with a library of a 1000 different games for a brand new one that'll play the same games at the same resolution with a limited next gen library? There is more to a console than just the price point. Games matter too. And guess what? Almost every major third party game and Xbox lineup will playable on a Xbox One.

The mental gymnastics people go to justify the audience for this thing (when it is clearly sales cheerleading) is hilarious. There is this specific gamer, who wants a next gen console at launch but doesn't care about graphic quality, but cares enough for 1080p & price conscious, but isn't interested in a cheaper 1080p/900p PS4/Xbox One and/or in a rush to replace their recent & cheaper PS4/Xbox One purchase for a console that'll play almost all the exact same games at the same resolution. How many gamers fit that description? There is a reason why this hasn't been announced yet.

Oh yeah, don't forget Lockhart is rumored to not have a disc drive. Because we all know price consious gamers love to NOT have the option for cheaper used or retail games that they can trade in, lend or sell themselves.

 

[geordiemp]

LOL, as if Sony would create APU die space for the OS - what is he smoking ?

 

[Three Jackdaws]

According to this, it will "virtually eliminate load times". I think you're underestimating what the system will be able to do once we see what XVA can do!

In my opinion this is just marketing talk, Microsoft know very well what Sony is planning and they want to get ahead so they can gain mindshare on the "no load times", even though they're SSD wasn't designed for that. Although I don't think it's going to work lol

 

[whoever81]

In my opinion this is just marketing talk, Microsoft know very well what Sony is planning and they want to get ahead so they can gain mindshare on the "no load times", even though they're SSD wasn't designed for that. Although I don't think it's going to work lol

Well come on let's be reasonable here. Of course Microsoft will also market "no load times". Series X has a very fast ssd. What do you want them to market? "Almost no load times!"? or "No load times but PS5 is even faster!"?

 

[ethomaz]

I don't know, I find it odd that most games on PC work perfectly fine on various specs, but for some reason this doesn't fly for Xbox.

Do you mean most games on PC are limited by the minimum specs? Yes.
That is exactly why no game on PC takes full advantage of the super strongest hardware.

 

[LED Guy?]

I hope you make these posts in jest and not being serious. If the latter, there are resources online that can help you better understand the development process.

What the heck? Now you're bluffing and not disproving my point, because focusing on the higher sales systems have always been like that since the Atari days, it's about targeting what most consumers have/had/will have, I hope you get the point now, all I'm saying is that the Series X will be after thought console, ESPECIALLY when we all know the Xbox Lockhart and PS5 will absolutely DESTROY the Xbox Series X in sales it's not even debatable!! Of course PS5 will DESTROY the Lockhart sales as wel!!

 

[Thirty7ven]

Well come on let's be reasonable here. Of course Microsoft will also market "no load times". Series X has a very fast ssd. What do you want them to market? "Almost no load times!"? or "No load times minus a few seconds!"?

I think reasonable in an enthusiastic forum means not falling for PR bullshit and leave that to the birds. But apparently that's too much to ask and we should eat the cake and have it, otherwise some of us will go insane it seems.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I hope that the Xbox Series Sandwich comes with turkey, not bologna. I hate bologna.

 

[ethomaz]

LOL, as if Sony would create APU die space for the OS - what is he smoking ?

But these are confirmed by Sony lol

The I/O coprocessors and the RAM cache scrubbers... all on die.

He like usual insider saying what he read somebody else.

 

[Finem Orientis]

Okay, I did my own research and learned that the rumor that Sony intends to simultaneously release a base-model PlayStation 5 and a PlayStation 5 Pro at launch stem from a renowned Japanese journalist, Zenji Nishikawa.

According to this article, Nishikawa states that he heard that there would be two such SKUs of the PlayStation 5 at the Computer Entertainment Developers Conference of 2019. He supposedly says this about 29 minutes into the video below; however, the video is in Japanese.

What do you guys and girls think? Bollocks or plausible? Perhaps the less powerful one of the two SKUs is comprised of APUs that failed to meet the yield standards of the more powerful one.

That's just what he heard in the gossip that was circulating at CEDEC.
The PS5 will be released in two versions depending on the performance of the processor.
Apparently there will be two types of game consoles coming out, one for people who want to play 4k games and one for people who are good enough with full HD games. The company says it will be divided by performance, not storage capacity.
So much for the rumors.
There were no developer leaks in Japan to follow suit.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Spain was one of the hardest countries hit by the past economic recession. Here the crisis lasted from 2007 to 2013 at the very least. On top of that we've always been quite poor. Here the 360 has always been cheaper than the PS3 and yet Sony outsold MS by a smashing ratio. Even now you can find the XOX one hundred euros cheaper than the PSPro and all PS4s are sold out due to the quarantine.

TL;DR. If price were the main factor in a purchase Apple wouldn't sell a single phone.

Alot of people underestimate the strength of the PlayStation brand. Sony is ending this gen really strongly and they still have two highly anticipated games to release on the PS4. Not to mention the PS5 has BC with the PS5 so all previous PS4 owners can upgrade without worrying about loosing their library.

Sony is going to enter next gen really strongly despite the PR missteps.

 

[whoever81]

I think reasonable in an enthusiastic forum means not falling for PR bullshit and leave that to the birds. But apparently that's too much to ask and we should eat the cake and have it, otherwise some of us will go insane it seems.

I am not sure if you agreed or disagreed with my post. Quarantine affects my judgement these days.

 

[MasterCornholio]

LOL, as if Sony would create APU die space for the OS - what is he smoking ?

It kind of looks like he's smoking a burrito.

 

[Tetragrammaton_Knight]

The differences will not limited to only resolution. The X1S version of Gears 5 runs at 1080p/30fps and X1X version at 4k/60fps. However these are not the only differences between the two, a lot of other graphical details are absent on the X1S version, like reflections. You can see the digital foundry analysis of Gears 5 for more.

The gameplay design will be dictated by the lower performance machine while the higher performance machine will get better graphical features/resolution/framerates.

X1S/X1X comparison is not applicable here, it is a completely different paradigm. X1S/X1X had different chips, different clocks and feature sets. XSS and XSX will be basically the same architecture throughout with difference being the number of shading units (and reduced memory specs for 1080p resolution)

Spain was one of the hardest countries hit by the past economic recession. Here the crisis lasted from 2007 to 2013 at the very least. On top of that we've always been quite poor. Here the 360 has always been cheaper than the PS3 and yet Sony outsold MS by a smashing ratio. Even now you can find the XOX one hundred euros cheaper than the PSPro and all PS4s are sold out due to the quarantine.

TL;DR. If price were the main factor in a purchase Apple wouldn't sell a single phone.

It is not that simple, you are making uninformed assumptions on partially available data. I don't have that much free time to explain how market and sales work and don't see any sense in even trying or argue about it here. So I would suggest to avoid this topic of "potential sales" and focus discussion on technical matters.

 

[Neo_game]

Well no shit. But you could technically expect a game like HZD2 to work on a 4TF system without Ray-Tracing and various other graphical settings turned off.

Third party will make game for the weaker console. So there is a definite compromise. I don't know why they will bother if by resolution or RT affects is more than enough to use the extra power.

 

[PropellerEar]

So (4)-12TB on XSe(S)X
Avaraging <<8TB as most sold boxes will be XSeS.

10.2-()TB on PS5(pro)
Avaraging >>10TB

Time for PS5 Power King Thread!?




/s

 

[whoever81]

A lot of people underestimate the strength of the PlayStation brand.

Yeah right. Haven't met a single one where I live (Greece).

 

[Kusarigama]

Well come on let's be reasonable here. Of course Microsoft will also market "no load times". Series X has a very fast ssd. What do you want them to market? "Almost no load times!"? or "No load times but PS5 is even faster!"?

MS also said that all X1 games will be playable on XSX and when asked again on twitter to clarify they made the following statement

 

[Neo Blaster]

But these are confirmed by Sony lol

The I/O coprocessors and the RAM cache scrubbers... all on die.

He like usual insider saying what he read somebody else.

If Tidux is talking about RAM reservation for OS, why is he talking about processors inside APU?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

They are holding from top-down but are focusing on the most selling console which will be the Lockhart (in Xbox's side of course), if some ambitions like high-end graphics wouldn't run well on Lockhart then they'll downgrade the baseline of the games solely because of the trash Xbox Lockhart, this is facts, you can do whatever you want but it won't change facts, I just hope the PS5 DESTROYS both consoles in sales so that developers can forget developing for those consoles and just give them what the PS5 does just at their whatever settings.

These are facts that you have to accept them. Sorry.

I have the exact same feelings about the PS5. Hope it doesn't hold back the XSX too much, and that they get destroyed in sales so developers can focus on the more powerful system, instead of that weak PS5.

 

[Tetragrammaton_Knight]

This is literally wishful thinking because there is no evidence to support this theory since the console is just a rumor at this point. Just because posters on the internet (discord) ad nauseam parrot the same talking points doesn't make it true. We simply don't know yet.

What we do know that the PS4, which has the almost the same CPU and slightly less RAM than the mid gen refresh (which is rumored what Lockhart will have as well compared to PS5/XSX) has been struggling with performance issues with big titles in the past year compared to Pro/X1. Is it indicative of what will come for Lockhart? I don't know. It doesn't have the same disparity in GPU power but it won't be the main platform for devs either like the PS4.



Another wishful thinking part of your post. There is no evidence to suggest this either. Gamers are made up certain audiences. The same people who bought an Xbox One or PS4 in 2013 are not the same audience that bought one in 2016 or in 2019, etc.

Who is the audience? The hardcore console gamer? Well, their buying the PS5 or Series X. The casual gamer? How casual are we talking about? The people who are interested in consoles at cheaper price point? Well, they likely bought a PS4 or XB1 in the last two-three years. Why would they be in a rush to replace a console with a library of a 1000 different games for a brand new one that'll play the same games at the same resolution with a limited next gen library? There is more to a console than just the price point. Games matter too. And guess what? Almost every major third party game and Xbox lineup will playable on a Xbox One.

The mental gymnastics people go to justify the audience for this thing (when it is clearly sales cheerleading) is hilarious. There is this specific gamer, who wants a next gen console at launch but doesn't care about graphic quality, but cares enough for 1080p & price conscious, but isn't interested in a cheaper 1080p/900p PS4/Xbox One and/or in a rush to replace their recent & cheaper PS4/Xbox One purchase for a console that'll play almost all the exact same games at the same resolution. How many gamers fit that description? There is a reason why this hasn't been announced yet.

Oh yeah, don't forget Lockhart is rumored to not have a disc drive. Because we all know price consious gamers love to NOT have the option for cheaper used or retail games that they can trade in, lend or sell themselves.

First of all, Lockhart is not just a rumor, it was part of numerous leaks and I have confirmation from my own sources that "Lockhart mode" can be enabled on current dev kit for XSX, which further implies that XSS will virtually be the same hardware as XSX only "scaled down a bit" to run the same games in 1080p. However, whether MS decides to build and launch this second console or not remains to be seen. Too many variables that could affect MS decision.
Secondly, based on what you have written - you have very limited understanding of how console market and sales work. But, as I have written in other post above, I am not going to waste my time explaining or arguing about sales here. It is just not worth it. So let's focus on technical side, please.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I have the exact same feelings about the PS5. Hope it doesn't hold back the XSX too much, and that they get destroyed in sales so developers can focus on the more powerful system, instead of that weak PS5.

I hope you forgot the '/s' at the end, cause this is one of the most fanboyish BS I've read in the last weeks in this thread.

 

[whoever81]

MS also said that all X1 games will be playable on XSX and when asked again on twitter to clarify they made the following statement

Ok so? Sony have said something similar for PS4 bc if I'm not mistaken. In the lines of "We are testing an ever growing number of PS4 games for BC"

 

[Gamernyc78]

Fuck Microsoft for releasing a 4TF console in 2020. Just fuck them.
Phil I hope you read this. I'll buy one to use it as an ashtray. Fuck it so much.
Literally vomit inducing, I can't even fathom such a weak ass GPU holding a back a generation. REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Tht shit is doa for 300 with 4 or 6tf. I don't care if it's a cheaper alternative it's just not what ppl are asking for. At 200 would have done fine.

 

[SonGoku]

I need to see the receipts of MS stating that is chip's max and not expected decompression.

Its from DF

high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s

For reference Cerny when talking about the hardware decompression block

The unit itself is capable of outputting as much as 22GB/s

The expected decompression MS listed is 4.8GB/s.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Okay, I did my own research and learned that the rumor that Sony intends to simultaneously release a base-model PlayStation 5 and a PlayStation 5 Pro at launch stem from a renowned Japanese journalist, Zenji Nishikawa.

According to this article, Nishikawa states that he heard that there would be two such SKUs of the PlayStation 5 at the Computer Entertainment Developers Conference of 2019. He supposedly says this about 29 minutes into the video below; however, the video is in Japanese.

What do you guys and girls think? Bollocks or plausible? Perhaps the less powerful one of the two SKUs is comprised of APUs that failed to meet the yield standards of the more powerful one.

Thts an old rumor and yes we remember that info. Highly doubt it at this point but who knows.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I am not sure if you agreed or disagreed with my post. Quarantine affects my judgement these days.

I agree that marketing departments bullshit all the way to the bank and that we shouldn't give two shits about it. So yeah I agree with you.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

I have the exact same feelings about the PS5. Hope it doesn't hold back the XSX too much, and that they get destroyed in sales so developers can focus on the more powerful system, instead of that weak PS5.

 

[Self High Five]

Secondly, based on what you have written - you have very limited understanding of how console market and sales work. But, as I have written in other post above, I am not going to waste my time explaining or arguing about sales here. It is just not worth it. So let's focus on technical side, please.

You're the one that introduced sales talk with a baseless claim with no evidence and when asked to back it up (by other posters as well) you suddenly don't have "free time".

I wouldn't want to waste time discussing a topic I don't understand either, but I'm smart enough not to bring it up in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I hope you forgot the '/s' at the end, cause this is one of the most fanboyish BS I've read in the last weeks in this thread.

Not necessarily forgot, I don't like to add it if it's laid on so thickly. Takes the fun out of it. Although I was still laughing with his comment on saying the Lockhart would hold back this generation. That was fanboy stuff

 

[Bladed Thesis]

It's clear we are desperate for more information and clarification on both sides.

The time will come.

 

[Kusarigama]

Ok so? Sony have said something similar for PS4 bc if I'm not mistaken. In the lines of "We are testing an ever growing number of PS4 games for BC"

Yeah but not first saying that all games will be playable and then correcting themselves only on 1 reply on Twitter.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Yeah but not first saying that all games will be playable and then correcting themselves only on 1 reply on Twitter.

That's purely due to licensing

 

[Mod of War]

Knock off the petty console warring in here, you know who you are.

 

[mitchman]

If Tidux is talking about RAM reservation for OS, why is he talking about processors inside APU?

The IO and decompression blocks are on the APU.

 

[Tetragrammaton_Knight]

You're the one that introduced sales talk with a baseless claim with no evidence and when asked to back it up (by other posters as well) you suddenly don't have "free time".

I wouldn't want to waste time discussing a topic I don't understand either, but I'm smart enough not to bring it up in the first place.

Please point out where did I raise the point of sales and started comparing market shares??? Or just stop spreading FUD and keep silent.

Original point of my post was that XSS, if released, will make next-gen accessible to a much broader audience, because it will provide the same next-gen features as top consoles for almost half the price. And Sony has nothing to counter MS at that price range except old-gen ps4.

 

[Kusarigama]

That's purely due to licensing

Licensing is required for Xbox and Xbox 360 games as they require repacking the original game in a layer of custom emulator. If native bc is present for xbox one games then it will not require relicensing. And even after having native bc not all games work 100%. Certain PS1 games didn't work on PS2. Certain PS2 games had issues even on the hardware based bc PS3s.