Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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I read it a little and this is my reaction


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I know DF is highly controversial around here but I never found any of them offensive. Their face offs always seemed pretty clear to me and I never felt any vindictiveness.

But I also did follow them on Twitter or anything so I have no idea what they say outside of their content.
 
I know DF is highly controversial around here but I never found any of them offensive. Their face offs always seemed pretty clear to me and I never felt any vindictiveness.

But I also did follow them on Twitter or anything so I have no idea what they say outside of their content.

Oh no I was making a reference to the comment section.

:)

It's kind of funny to go back to those years and read through the comments again.
 
Ah, almost missed these.

No, BGs contributed to FUD with that statement. It's clear as day. Fake Fake , you're right that no one has to believe them...so why are you bringing that up? Are you implying anyone who doesn't believe someone should just..... not say anything? Just stay silent? Sorry but free speech doesn't work that way.

If someone, regardless of their stature, has the freedom to post wrong information or speculation that doesn't have much room to exist since actual info that contradicts it is out there, I have the freedom to speak up on it. It's that simple.

@Rusco Da Vino Look I know it's hard for someone such as yourself to have your own independent thought on these matters, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have that same issue. See how well the whole aspect of being vetted or not did for several insiders during the earlier parts of speculation here.

And I was one of the people who said, even then, that if they turned out to be wrong on some things, people shouldn't go out blaming them, attacking them, "shooting the messenger" more or less. But it's also been established early on I don't take someone's word as gospel just because they're a "vetted dev".

Oh and please tell me what PS5 FUD I've created? Go ahead, pull up my quotes. You won't find any. Anything I speculated about PS5 early on was framed as just that: speculation. And I almost always gave caveats with that, too. I didn't jump on the "PS5 has no hardware RT" train when that tried picking up steam. I never fully committed to the "PS5 is 9 TF" train, either. In fact I gave room for a 48 CU PS5 chip in my speculations, and that was weighed against the Github info AND the insider speculation, AND other things like the IT Media report and Bloomberg article (btw Jason Schreir is working there now so if someone wants to say the Bloomberg stuff isn't worth considering I hope they'll hold that consistent standard when Schreir starts his write-ups, or will Bloomberg mysteriously be credible when that happens?).

BTW you're one of the posters I was referring to earlier when I mentioned to @BGs that his statements might negatively contribute to more FUD going forward. Just wanted to explicitly mention that.



This is a ridiculous statement, and maybe I was wrong in saying the thread wasn't full of FUD from some other posters after all. Go ahead, search my post history. Show me exactly where I accused EVERY insider of spreading FUD!

Good luck, because I never said that. I said BGs made a statement today that, whether it was their intention or not, might contribute to future FUD in regards next-gen discussions. Apparently now that involves posters like you creating FUD against me as well.

So I think this'll be my final post in this thread. It's pretty obvious some of you guys have some twisted logic in trying to call me out on stuff I haven't even said, simply because I had the gall to disagree with BGs. And I still stand by that disagreement with them. They responded back, and I responded to their response. They clearly don't need you guys to white knight for them.

I agree, with moving on. I'm out of this thread. Knock yourselves out.
despite your wall of text, you have my sword. all the insiders contributed to spreading fud. BGs wasnt the only one though, and since hes been fighting covid-19, i think its proper ettiquete to just leave him be for now instead of litigating this thing right now. there is a time and a place.

odium though. knock yourself out. osiris, whispers, heisenberg were all fucking with us for a good few months, having PM group therapy sessions jerking each other off and then teasing their conversations here so we could beg them for more info. which never came btw or if it did it was mostly vague hints like puberty or promises that stuff was vetted by mod of war.

in the end, it was all FUD. maybe not in the fear uncertainty and doubt sense, but it was all fake news regardless.
 
Yeah my bad I wasn't clear. I was reading that 2015 thread and the hate for Richard is fierce in there.

Honestly I just hope Richard is objective with all future analysis. If the resolution difference isn't that noticeable then I expect him to say so. I definitely know that on my 4K monitor I won't notice it so I'll be looking for other differences if there are any.
 
Honestly I just hope Richard is objective with all future analysis. If the resolution difference isn't that noticeable then I expect him to say so. I definitely know that on my 4K monitor I won't notice it so I'll be looking for other differences if there are any.
It really is a game to game basis for me. There's so many others things that go into IQ these days. Some games it's super noticable.

Some games stick out to me like Doom 2016 where the difference between the pro and X for me were night and day different when I played them.

Then stuff like MW which I have on both I can't see a big difference.
 
It really is a game to game basis for me. There's so many others things that go into IQ these days. Some games it's super noticable.

Some games stick out to me like Doom 2016 where the difference between the pro and X for me were night and day different when I played them.

Then stuff like MW which I have on both I can't see a big difference.

With my setup I can't tell a difference between 4K and 1440P. If the resolution difference is the same or smaller it won't really matter to me. Which is why I try and look for other differences.

Hopefully I explained myself better.
 
I want to go on record how this generation plays out...

1. Third party games will be indistinguishable to the naked eye on both systems throughout the generation. We may see minor FPS differences and visual differences at significant magnification.

2. Year one will be mostly "shinier" versions of current gen games, so we will see no difference between the systems.

3. Microsoft first party games will be hampered by their "no generation stance" for 2 years.

4. Sony first party games will dazzle and offer us the first glimpse of the future of gaming. I think the SSD and throughput is something that has to be experienced to truly be appreciated.

5. The narrative will change from the X will be untouchable this gen to: wait 2 years until the system isn't being held back by last gen.

6. If there is a mid-gen refresh after 3 years, Microsoft has a year after dropping legacy support to show their hardware approach was better.
 
I want to go on record how this generation plays out...

1. Third party games will be indistinguishable to the naked eye on both systems throughout the generation. We may see minor FPS differences and visual differences at significant magnification.

2. Year one will be mostly "shinier" versions of current gen games, so we will see no difference between the systems.

3. Microsoft first party games will be hampered by their "no generation stance" for 2 years.

4. Sony first party games will dazzle and offer us the first glimpse of the future of gaming. I think the SSD and throughput is something that has to be experienced to truly be appreciated.

5. The narrative will change from the X will be untouchable this gen to: wait 2 years until the system isn't being held back by last gen.

6. If there is a mid-gen refresh after 3 years, Microsoft has a year after dropping legacy support to show their hardware approach was better.
MS will be showing next gen exclusives at their summer reveal. doesnt matter if they wont release by 2022. they will give you a fake launch date of 2021 and then delay it at the end. there is no way sony will be the only company showing next gen only games. MS has already shown Hellblade 2, they will have at least 3-4 more next gen game trailers or demos at their reveal besides current gen stuff like halo.
 
THIS FORUM IS ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE, PURE GARBAGE. I AM DONE WITH THIS, MODS ARE YOU GOING TO DO ANYTHING??

I NEVER SAID THAT SSDS CANT HELP OPEN WORLDS. I ONLY MENTIONED THAT THEY CAN'T ON PS5.

I don't understand what you mean? SSD's CAN help with open worlds but NOT on PS5? I'm probably missing something here. If so, my apologies.
 
I don't understand what you mean? SSD's CAN help with open worlds but NOT on PS5? I'm probably missing something here. If so, my apologies.
we are referring to Alex's meltdown over at era after people quoted him saying Ps5 ssd wont make a big difference. those are his words we are quoting. he went apeshit on the mods and basically forced the mods to ban half a dozen people.

this was posted here last month. i figured people here would remember.
 
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That's actually the last time I visited that space. So embarrassing lol
the best part of it was how he showed up literally a minute after that post. someone over at the discord must have sent the bat signal because it must have been around 3AM in germany at that time.

that rant was actually the catalyst to the discord group getting disbanded. after alex's meltdown some posters here outed their homophobic, and racists posts along with some truly embarrassing fanboyism. i heard that they cleaned house and got rid of most of the posters, and now its a ghost town with people who are left actually scared to post. this was a few weeks ago so maybe they have gone back to normal now, but i love how it all blew up in their face. several discord users were banned on era that day for abusing the reporting system. some were perma'd.

they were doing so well too. they won the tflops wars. team github was more right than wrong. they could've been gracious but instead they were sore winners and couldnt let the ps5 have one advantage without spreading FUD about it. its honestly the best thing to come out of it.
 
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I don't understand what you mean? SSD's CAN help with open worlds but NOT on PS5? I'm probably missing something here. If so, my apologies.
Alex said that. A resetera user save his reply and Alex call resetera trash.

Thats the joke. Somehow Alex think SSD will not help PS5 with open world.
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the best part of it was how he showed up literally a minute after that post. someone over at the discord must have sent the bat signal because it must have been around 3AM in germany at that time.

that rant was actually the catalyst to the discord group getting disbanded. after alex's meltdown some posters here outed their homophobic, and racists posts along with some truly embarrassing fanboyism. i heard that they cleaned house and got rid of most of the posters, and now its a ghost town with people who are left actually scared to post. this was a few weeks ago so maybe they have gone back to normal now, but i love how it all blew up in their face. several discord users were banned on era that day for abusing the reporting system. some were perma'd.

they were doing so well too. they won the tflops wars. team github was more right than wrong. they could've been gracious but instead they were sore winners and couldnt let the ps5 have one advantage without spreading FUD about it. its honestly the best thing to come out of it.
that's a nice description of Hell. Thanks man!
 
we are referring to Alex's meltdown over at era after people quoted him saying Ps5 ssd wont make a big difference. those are his words we are quoting. he went apeshit on the mods and basically forced the mods to ban half a dozen people.

this was posted here last month. i figured people here would remember.

Ah, ok, my bad. Probably did see that last month...just a lot to track. Thanks all who helped fill me in!
 
I want to go on record how this generation plays out...

1. Third party games will be indistinguishable to the naked eye on both systems throughout the generation. We may see minor FPS differences and visual differences at significant magnification.

2. Year one will be mostly "shinier" versions of current gen games, so we will see no difference between the systems.

3. Microsoft first party games will be hampered by their "no generation stance" for 2 years.

4. Sony first party games will dazzle and offer us the first glimpse of the future of gaming. I think the SSD and throughput is something that has to be experienced to truly be appreciated.

5. The narrative will change from the X will be untouchable this gen to: wait 2 years until the system isn't being held back by last gen.

6. If there is a mid-gen refresh after 3 years, Microsoft has a year after dropping legacy support to show their hardware approach was better.

I do not think Microsoft cares. Their strategy is obviously subscription based. They will also have S version of the console. I think sooner or later devs are going to use reconstruction technique instead of using native resolution which will bring playing field even closer between the consoles. Some people are also suggesting that Xbox RAM allocation is not ideal if the game uses more than 10GB RAM. So that will be interesting if the 25% advantage in BW will be gone in some years.
 
Welp, GPU achieves latency hiding with fine grained multithreading (and memory access coalescing?) But within each thread (wrap/wavefront) a load/store instruction will block (not stall), I think we can agree on that?
Definitely, we can :). Sorry, was being excessively anal there for little reason.
 
This old thread is brutal.


I wasn't browsing this forum so frequently back in 2015, so that article and thread was a nice surprise.

Even then, I don't hold it against people for their biases, every one has one. As long as it doesn't intervene with their objective analysis too much I'm ok with it. Content on DF has improved a lot in recent years, so any accusation of bias (on either side) doesn't wash with me. Dictator has been acting weird though, don't know what is up with him.

Alex said that. A resetera user save his reply and Alex call resetera trash.

Thats the joke. Somehow Alex think SSD will not help PS5 with open world.
IwEIM4Y.png

6aDmWwG.png

0o70Npr.png

He back-tracked on it quick though, after being called out by one of the ex-ND devs. Shame they still had to ban the poster for providing the said receipts...

I think they have improved a lot since the ps3 gen. Richard is much older and doesn't seem to give a shit. Any bias he has now is mostly subconscious. It manifests in embarrassing ways like when he interviewed cerny and refused to take his word for it. And then proceeded to muddy the waters by getting quotes from devs using outdated devkits as if he was trying up prove cerny is a liar.

Using dev quotes wasn't even the most bizarre part of that video. It was the follow-up where he started bench-marking games using over-clocked RDNA1 GPUs? Only to arrive at a conclusion, higher clock speeds aren't very beneficial. Even though they had discussed in one of the benchmark videos earlier of RDNA1 GPUs being bottle-necked by either bandwidth or power or both. AMD themselves had pointed out that the architecture isn't very efficient which is what they are focused on improving for RDNA2. Let's see if he does a follow up video once the RDNA2 GPUs are out.
 
I don't know where I saw this but there's claims that with the extra power the Xbox Series X really needs to have 20GB of ram to have the optimal amount. I'm not sure that I understand the reasoning behind that because power wise it's not a big difference between the two systems.
I don't know what that I based on. If we kept mechanical drives, to have the same jump we had from 360 to PS4, both consoles should have 128GB of RAM @ 1GB/s. Go figure. Just to make an idea of what those SSD need to make up for.
 
I am afraid to read that thread.

Quite embarrassing and shows one big 180° of Leadbetter and some of the more fervent Xbox fans: resolution difference is meaningless only framerate matters, PS4 Pro has lower resolution and higher average framerate in some games and back to framerate difference is meaningless it is resolution that impresses him, etc...

Claiming Leadbetter is not biased and has been objective appraising Xbox and PS requires very short term memory or being intentionally disingenuous.
 
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I don't know what that I based on. If we kept mechanical drives, to have the same jump we had from 360 to PS4, both consoles should have 128GB of RAM @ 1GB/s. Go figure. Just to make an idea of what those SSD need to make up for.
Even then, just upping the ram indefinitely is not a smart solution compared to levelling the entire memory subsystem as next gen is doing. More ram equates to even longer load times and you would never see quality of life features in game suspend/resume, etc.

Next gen is looking magnificent I must say. And Sony at least on paper thus far is absolutely smashing it out of the park.

Hand cream intact, where'd that tissue box go....
 
Even then, just upping the ram indefinitely is not a smart solution compared to levelling the entire memory subsystem as next gen is doing. More ram equates to even longer load times and you would never see quality of life features in game suspend/resume, etc.

Next gen is looking magnificent I must say. And Sony at least on paper thus far is absolutely smashing it out of the park.

Hand cream intact, where'd that tissue box go....
Absolutely, and I'm very excited with what both boxes have to offer. I was just making a point about how important SSD speed is to the new machines' RAM.
 
I can't believe that the PS5 will be able to bring amazing graphics and sound, and at the same time bring back the loading speeds we had in the 8 and 16bit eras.

It's going to be so fucking amazing ...

So when do y'all think preorders will begin for these consoles?
3-5 months before release, IMO.
 
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With my setup I can't tell a difference between 4K and 1440P. If the resolution difference is the same or smaller it won't really matter to me. Which is why I try and look for other differences.

Hopefully I explained myself better.

Not many console games play on MONITORS.
How small is your 4K monitor?
I'm playing on a 65 inch LG OLED and the difference is HUGE.
 
So when do y'all think preorders will begin for these consoles?
Xbox in May after the event next Thursday. Playstation probably in June after their reveal. Microsoft will have about a month to brag about unprecedentedly high preorders***.

*) In the USA
**) For the next gen console
***) All-time high Xbox
 
Xbox in May after the event next Thursday. Playstation probably in June after their reveal. Microsoft will have about a month to brag about unprecedentedly high preorders***.

*) In the USA
**) For the next gen console
***) All-time high Xbox
This means ms has to announce prices in May which I doubt . Both will do that July/August and play game of chicken with each other over price
 
Does anyway actually read those walls of text? I sure don't. Scrolling on by.

Nah, I am not THAT emotionally involved. I got a family and friends to care about, mate.

All I am waiting for is some OS features and games presentation from both consoles, even though I will end up buying the PS5 hands down.
 
I know no one cares about my opinion but myself, but this thread being an open discussion place about almost all things regarding the next-gen consoles, I will drop it here:

The people who blindly believed ANY vetted devs, insiders, whatever - you're bigger fools than they are. And now coming back here and attacking them personally, that says a lot about your personality, sorry to say.

Until Sony and/or Microsoft will come publicly and state FACTS about their consoles, all the rest is not leaks, not analysis, it's just SPECULATION. Arguing back and forth over speculation is fun up to the point where you're getting so engrossed in it that you start personal attacks.

What a shame, really...
 
The most annoying part is when ms told them not call their cpu jaguar in x1x reveal Richard refused to refer to cpu as jaguar and called it customized amd cpu.
Didn't know this. Is there any source to this claim?
 
This means ms has to announce prices in May which I doubt . Both will do that July/August and play game of chicken with each other over price

Console manufacturers can state a price and have the option to throw in a free game, services or whatever into the bundle, so they have flexibility anyway.

Say if ps5 is 500 and XSX is 550, if one of them adds a free game or free pass (or games !)then there is still flexibilioty all the time, so neither have to play anything.
 
I do not think Microsoft cares. Their strategy is obviously subscription based. They will also have S version of the console. I think sooner or later devs are going to use reconstruction technique instead of using native resolution which will bring playing field even closer between the consoles. Some people are also suggesting that Xbox RAM allocation is not ideal if the game uses more than 10GB RAM. So that will be interesting if the 25% advantage in BW will be gone in some years.

If the game uses more than 10GB of RAM, then Xbox developers will simply use the other available 3.5GB of RAM? lol. 10GB on the GPU optimal side will be plenty for next gen games for years to come, unless people think an RTX 2080 on the PC won't be enough for next gen titles. The 2080 Ti has 11GB for its framebuffer. And then there are things like the Xbox Series X's Sampler Feedback Streaming, which takes the idea of a 10GB limitation and entirely turns it on its head. If Xbox Series X titles that use this are actually using quite a bit less RAM for textures, leading anywhere to the physical memory multiplier effect of 2-3x (possibly higher) that Microsoft has said will be possible, then Series X owners have even less to worry about regarding RAM and the console's bandwidth utilization.

Assassin's Creed Valhalla is going to be one demanding ass game, and if the Xbox Series X out the gate is potentially murdering this title even before Sampler Feedback Streaming is a play, I have zero doubts about the Series X continuing to be a monster deep into the gen.
 
I finished Indiana Jones and the Fate of the Atlantis swapping between 11 floppies. Kids are so spoiled nowadays ;).
Yeah I remember that even though I was between 5 and 8 years old back then. C64/Amiga and Atari were my first gaming stations (my brother whos about 10 years older got those). My friend had a nes system and my uncle sega. So i had played at nealry every system as a child.

However my conscious deep dive into gaming startet with my own modded PS1. Man those time were so sweet.
 
The most annoying part is when ms told them not call their cpu jaguar in x1x reveal Richard refused to refer to cpu as jaguar and called it customized amd cpu.

But when cerny says rdna 2 responds great with clock he goes and over clocks a rdna 1 to show cerny is lying.

Yep I can agree, Cerny even said in his presentation they had to limit teh GPU to 2.23 Ghz for logic and timing.

But Richard kept clocking RDNA1 above where it was comfortable to show high clocks dont work.

A logical approach would of been DOWN CLOCKING an older tech from its optimum and then comparing, so both clocks are not restrained. To me that was either ignorance or bias.
 
If the game uses more than 10GB of RAM, then Xbox developers will simply use the other available 3.5GB of RAM? lol. 10GB on the GPU optimal side will be plenty for next gen games for years to come, unless people think an RTX 2080 on the PC won't be enough for next gen titles. The 2080 Ti has 11GB for its framebuffer. And then there are things like the Xbox Series X's Sampler Feedback Streaming, which takes the idea of a 10GB limitation and entirely turns it on its head. If Xbox Series X titles that use this are actually using quite a bit less RAM for textures, leading anywhere to the physical memory multiplier effect of 2-3x (possibly higher) that Microsoft has said will be possible, then Series X owners have even less to worry about regarding RAM and the console's bandwidth utilization.

Assassin's Creed Valhalla is going to be one demanding ass game, and if the Xbox Series X out the gate is potentially murdering this title even before Sampler Feedback Streaming is a play, I have zero doubts about the Series X continuing to be a monster deep into the gen.
AC Valhalla is a cross gen game designed to run on 5GB (and 5.5GB on 4K machines). The whole game will easily run on the 10GB of fast memory on XSX. This is not the game that will show the limits of XSX splitted memory architecture.

If anything, the gap between PS5 and XSX will lower during the gen when bigger games requiring more than 10GB of ram will be designed.
 
Can someone post specific thread where I can read this meltdown from DF guy? You got me curious, guys. And I don't have anything better to do now anyways
 
Yep I can agree, Cerny even said in his presentation they had to limit teh GPU to 2.23 Ghz for logic and timing.

But Richard kept clocking RDNA1 above where it was comfortable to show high clocks dont work.

A logical approach would of been DOWN CLOCKING an older tech from its optimum and then comparing, so both clocks are not restrained. To me that was either ignorance or bias.
I've watched DF's "tech analysis" of Doom Eternal. They talk quite a bit about how texture streaming and culling help this game to look and perform so well and scale smoothly across platforms. They mention fast LOD switching, texture blending, decal management, all valid points. However, there's not even a single comment on how ID tech7 engine is exactly following the trends of next gen, preparing for smooth transition in their next games. I was quite puzzled how you can both get things right and ignore them. Then I noticed that they use a lot of footage provided by the game developers (showing how assets were prepared, texturing, lighting, etc.) Then I realized that all this insight was just provided to DF ready to parrot and they don't even know what they're talking about.
 
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