Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.
On Xbox I'm pretty sure developers will have to use DirectX, and the One, OneX; and PC versions will deal with the Client/server aspect of the API based on what was most advantageous for the hardware wrapper to do, with data definiely being copied on PC.

You are suggesting that the client/server API abstraction can be ignored by developers - when the very reason for the abstraction is to let API specialists understand the wider issues and implement safe solutions that perform best and let developers focus on graphics development. The pools of memory have been partitioned for good reason on the XsX and suggesting that copying data from one to the other doesn't have advantages in scenarios ignores the difference in lost bandwdith the GPU incurs for not accessing data from is own 10GB, and ignores that CPU memory is commodeered for sent data, and the CPU would like to reclaim and repurposed that finite resource. Render instructions sent from the client(CPU) to the server(GPU) every frame will look no different to the API as sending a shader object, a vertex array,etc and that data does get copied, because it is expected to be resident in GPU memory because it gets rendered repeatedly while it is needed. No one is claiming two copies of the data will be mirrored continously, but instructions prepared on the CPU using the graphics API(client/server) still seem like a prime candidate on XsX for copying; especially as the API has to view the size of the data it is sending as an existential question, and therefore needs the client/server protocol mechanisms to handle such uncertain efficiently.
Are you suggesting that developers can't code specifically to the XSX and use XSX features? That they code for it as if it's a PC that is completely encapsulated to them? That's not true. It wasn't true to any Xbox ever and MS already confirmed low-level access to some parts of the XSX APU which means that once again, that's not true:
The good news is that Microsoft allows low-level access to the RT acceleration hardware. "[Series X] goes even further than the PC standard in offering more power and flexibility to developers," reveals Goossen. "In grand console tradition, we also support direct to the metal programming including support for offline BVH construction and optimisation"

And you keep saying "Client/server", but client/server doesn't share a memory pool, XSX's GPU and CPU does. Your examples apply to PC gaming, not consoles. What you are suggesting, MS could have done other very straight forward and extremely obvious setups and get better results and cheaper BOM. For instance a 10GB GPU only (with CPU access) + 8GB DDR4 CPU only pools, exactly like on PC (except for the "CPU can access VRAM" part), it would have been much cheaper and the GPU would have had 560GB/s 100% of the time. They could even do a simple 256-bit interface and call it a day. You are just not making sense, a console with a unified memory that isolates the CPU and GPU as if it has split memory? And developers can't access it and have to use it as some sort of anonymous PC? I'm not even sure how you think an engineer will be stupid enough to build that machine. It's like having amazing tools and not use them just because.
 
Last edited:
He seems to prefer PC and Xbox which is fine but he gets angry a lot on social media/forums/Discord and yet he seems so chill in the DF videos. Odd!
I never found the guy interesting from the start. I didn't know his affiliations yet. I just never liked him and still don't. Whenever I play a DF video and it's him, I close the video. I also find it very weird how he's so giddy in the videos yet so aggressive on the net. Maybe I don't like his hair? Lol duno. Something feels fake about him.

I like Witchard and John ( D dark10x ). Tom I'm ok with, neutral. Maybe if he loses his monotone I'd be more interested! John the most though. I like his analysis, breakdowns and his retro videos. Has a cool voice and presents well imo. He's very chilled too. Keeps me interested. Unlike Alex with his high pitch and the way he talks. I find myself losing interest quick.
 
There are reasons MS picked DF to do their deep dive reveals and if anyone thinks everyone at DF is totally unbiased I have some land to sell them.

No one has said DF are unbiased. The problem is when people use that to insinuate they let that negatively affect their coverage of PS and Sony stuff.

If that were the case, why did they not do that the X/Pro versions of RE3 Remake? And better yet, why did Sony go to DF directly for a PS5 content vid (including more they haven't seemingly released yet)? Why would Mark Cerny talk with Leadbetter in an interview if they had such a negative bias towards Sony?

That's the fanatical part of the assertions of their biases affecting their judgement. They're unfounded, and never is that same type of energy turned towards places that have a Sony or PlayStation bias as to insinuate they have a negative Microsoft/Xbox bias.
 
Yeap. I mean, the Elite controller need a shared button, not? Probably Xbox One and Xbox One X will get a software update for add the share button.
Only time i use share button on my DS4 is by reflex coming from another controller so I'm probably not the man to see how important it is.
 
Hold on a sec, now you're spreading FUD dude. MS have explicitly mentioned they've made customizations to DX12U that are specific to the XSX. There are customizations to BCPack and mesh shading support only present on XSX.

Now I honestly have to question your other statements because that info I just referred to is public knowledge. Kind of surprised you did not hear of it whatsoever, maybe you just forgot 🤷‍♂️

I hate to put it that way, but you went kind of out-of-pocket with that take.



They..just literally had the guy from the Xcloud division move to the VR/AR department. So again, more FUD on your part. This is why I took insider claims during speculation with a grain of salt. It's too easy to spot these kind of inconsistencies now.
That they've made (logical) customizations means they've made enough customizations to efficiently harness the power of their beast? I can assure you that I have not seen money from anyone for making my statements. But I am sure that large companies do collect sales with theirs. Another thing is what you find at home after buying your products. That's then where you will really see what the FUD is (you know that I have not bothered to look for what FUD means but because of the tone it should not be a good thing, if I am wrong receive my cordial apologies).

Regarding VR, I have tried pretty well what Microsoft was up to, and what do you want me to tell you? No wonder it ended up in the trash (which is where it is now). When things are delayed and plans change, it is not precisely because they are going well. There are also two statements from Microsoft that went strangely unnoticed (oh what a coincidence). In one they said that they had no intention of maintaining an open war with Sony in this generation. In the other they said that VR was not important to them. Who knows, maybe it's because they knew things that users sometimes miss.

The day they present something interesting about it I will be the first of my company to promote development for that system, as I have always done, even with the "HorrorLens" (don't get me wrong, it is my opinion, I think that AR / VR is the future applied to a contact lens, and everything that we are living now, victories and failures, is necessary to reach that goal, I only hope that they improve it as soon as possible the better to be able to enjoy it before I die.

I don't forget nothing (forget? Forgot?). For the last few weeks I have been fighting for my life against Covid and I have buried about family and friends (well, legally it has not yet been allowed to officiate the funeral), but I have had a long time to be well informed of everything that happens in my sector in my long bed's days. And I can assure you that if I respond to your replies it is not out of offense, but out of courtesy and politeness, because honestly I will sleep just as calm, whether you believe my statements or not. There are more important things in this life and if one thing I have learned is that you cannot make everyone happy. I only hope that my information does not lead you to make a wrong decision.
 
And unfortunately BGs BGs contributed directly to it with FUD. Would not say it's been across the whole thread though, that's unfair IMHO. Maybe select posts here or there.

Honestly surprised me; I didn't take their speculation earlier as seriously as some other speculation, but at least gave benefit of the doubt to consider it. Now I wonder if it that was worth doing.

Dunno, maybe they just didn't come across that information. It isn't necessarily super-easy to find, I had to come across it from people quoting it on other forums. But still, being a developer I'd assume that's the type of info you would make sure to know before putting any public comments out with your name attached to 'em :/
Easy... Easy...
 
Only time i use share button on my DS4 is by reflex coming from another controller so I'm probably not the man to see how important it is.

I quite liked. I use much on my screenshots on my PC (on the work), notebook, gmail, phone... the seX controller now have the share button so I guess they'll make a elite with the share button as well.
 
Last edited:
Are you suggesting that developers can't code specifically to the XSX and use XSX features? That they code for it as if it's a PC that is completely encapsulated to them? That's not true. It wasn't true to any Xbox ever and MS already confirmed low-level access to some parts of the XSX APU which means that once again, that's not true:
...

I don't understand the logic you are driving – it is a 'direct' 'x' 'box' console – what logic is there to selling a console with an OS that has to use DirectX (for its drawcalls) and then not have devs use that critical component of the API ?

if the XsX doesn't copy the data from CPU to GPU (via client/server mechanisms) performance will be even worse than the scenario I'm infering.

Your scenario is that every drawcall the GPU will receive will be copied from the slower CPU ram to the GPU L2 cache directly – to save on less than hundred kilobytes per frame of bandwidth disruption.

My scenario was CPU ram to GPU ram, then GPU ram to L2 cache.
If you can't see the optimal critical path that keeps the XsX GPU utilised higher then I'm happy to agree to disagree and wait to see how memory performance pans out in 12 months from now when GDC talks will be addressing console issues and solutions.
 
Last edited:
Without specifying names. It is evidence that PS5 has features that are not (nor will be) in XSX (some have already been said, others not yet), for the simple fact that they are features that Sony and AMD have developed jointly. Technology that is already known to be in the next AMD processors and PS5 (exclusively). Anything else that has not been developed in conjunction with Sony can be found on XSX. The rest of the things are not.
Thank you sharing this with us. I really apreaciate it.

The same people who accuse you of creating FUD out of the blue are the same ones who try to bait the thread and change the current topic because it is not in their interest to talk about the PS5 exclusive features.

You know, those people are the same ones who have been speculating about RDNA1 on PS5 (not joking) even after the Cerny's talk.

That is FUD :)

My advise, dont take the baits my friend and bring us more interesting posts like that one.
 
Last edited:
That they've made (logical) customizations means they've made enough customizations to efficiently harness the power of their beast? I can assure you that I have not seen money from anyone for making my statements. But I am sure that large companies do collect sales with theirs. Another thing is what you find at home after buying your products. That's then where you will really see what the FUD is (you know that I have not bothered to look for what FUD means but because of the tone it should not be a good thing, if I am wrong receive my cordial apologies).

Regarding VR, I have tried pretty well what Microsoft was up to, and what do you want me to tell you? No wonder it ended up in the trash (which is where it is now). When things are delayed and plans change, it is not precisely because they are going well. There are also two statements from Microsoft that went strangely unnoticed (oh what a coincidence). In one they said that they had no intention of maintaining an open war with Sony in this generation. In the other they said that VR was not important to them. Who knows, maybe it's because they knew things that users sometimes miss.

The day they present something interesting about it I will be the first of my company to promote development for that system, as I have always done, even with the "HorrorLens" (don't get me wrong, it is my opinion, I think that AR / VR is the future applied to a contact lens, and everything that we are living now, victories and failures, is necessary to reach that goal, I only hope that they improve it as soon as possible the better to be able to enjoy it before I die.

I don't forget nothing (forget? Forgot?). For the last few weeks I have been fighting for my life against Covid and I have buried about family and friends (well, legally it has not yet been allowed to officiate the funeral), but I have had a long time to be well informed of everything that happens in my sector in my long bed's days. And I can assure you that if I respond to your replies it is not out of offense, but out of courtesy and politeness, because honestly I will sleep just as calm, whether you believe my statements or not. There are more important things in this life and if one thing I have learned is that you cannot make everyone happy. I only hope that my information does not lead you to make a wrong decision.

OK let's slow down for a second. Please don't try using you being sick with Covid as an emotional chip against me here. I actually remember you mentioning that a month or so ago and wished both you and O'dium the best in getting better because I can only imagine being sick with that thing is a brutal nightmare, and wouldn't wish it on anyone. So I am glad to see you are feeling better, that's actually very good news.

At the same time, it doesn't have much to do with in regards to what you said earlier in the thread today. I can be thankful you're feeling better but still critique your post for the content of what's in there. You basically said MS were doing nothing but a straight push of DX12U to XSX, and insinuated they were doing nothing to optimize it for the console. That's patently false. They've already made mentions on optimzations they're doing for DX12U that directly benefit XSX, and some of their hardware team have made some posts on Twitter talking about specific aspects of optimizations that are exclusive to XSX and not present in the PC version of DX12U.

I acknowledged that it's not exactly common knowledge (I even had to scour around for some of it myself), but knowing the type of clout you carry around here, I thought it was irresponsible of you to make that claim because whether you know it or not, there will be people who use that for their own narrative. You aren't responsible for what they do, obviously, but I figure you would've been aware enough of that to maybe not post something to that degree without having absolute certainty it was the case.

As to the meaning of FUD, yes it's not something good. Basically it's anything that feeds to a false narrative, whether intentionally or not. And it's a false narrative to insinuate MS have done no customizations or optimizations for DX12U on XSX specific to the system to maximize usage of the hardware. There's really no other way to phrase it.

Again that's kind of something to the effect of what you mentioned regarding their VR/AR stuff; they may not have a product to go yet, but to say it's "in the trash", that's an extreme turn of phrase and an inaccurate one because it'd imply they aren't working on any VR/AR stuff whatsoever. That'd be a foolish assumption to make dealing with any tech company the size of MS or Sony, yet routinely I see that type of dismissive attitude taken only against MS.

Yes, there are more important things in this world than gaming consoles. Our health, for example, so I honestly am glad you are feeling better. However, you obviously care enough about this to come into the thread to post, as do I. And I also happen to have a taste for keeping FUD down to a minimal. You posted a statement that was inaccurate, I felt need to touch upon it. And whether you intended it or not, unfortunately we will probably see that reinforce certain perspectives going forward with these discussions on the next-gen consoles, and not necessarily in a positive way.

EDIT: Also my condolences for the family. That really is unfortunate and I hope you manage well and stay strong through that, find ways to come to terms and all. I don't want this conversation to end on the consoles because there honestly are more important things to be had and deal with.

I truly do wish you the best in that regard.
 
Last edited:
If BGs BGs did some FUD you did as well with all those wall text. Nobody is forced to believe in these guys. Believe whoever wants. I find super bizarre that Odium did the same shit over the thread posting and teasing with those silly leaks, info... and in end he post asking for hunting down everyone who lied? I mean, wtf?

So it had to be you, a PS5 FUD machine who pretend to be neutral, who accuse (2 times in 20min) a vetted developer of creating FUD for stating the obvious

Stop baiting the thread, you are so obvious :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Ah, almost missed these.

No, BGs contributed to FUD with that statement. It's clear as day. Fake Fake , you're right that no one has to believe them...so why are you bringing that up? Are you implying anyone who doesn't believe someone should just..... not say anything? Just stay silent? Sorry but free speech doesn't work that way.

If someone, regardless of their stature, has the freedom to post wrong information or speculation that doesn't have much room to exist since actual info that contradicts it is out there, I have the freedom to speak up on it. It's that simple.

Rusco Da Vino Rusco Da Vino Look I know it's hard for someone such as yourself to have your own independent thought on these matters, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have that same issue. See how well the whole aspect of being vetted or not did for several insiders during the earlier parts of speculation here.

And I was one of the people who said, even then, that if they turned out to be wrong on some things, people shouldn't go out blaming them, attacking them, "shooting the messenger" more or less. But it's also been established early on I don't take someone's word as gospel just because they're a "vetted dev".

Oh and please tell me what PS5 FUD I've created? Go ahead, pull up my quotes. You won't find any. Anything I speculated about PS5 early on was framed as just that: speculation. And I almost always gave caveats with that, too. I didn't jump on the "PS5 has no hardware RT" train when that tried picking up steam. I never fully committed to the "PS5 is 9 TF" train, either. In fact I gave room for a 48 CU PS5 chip in my speculations, and that was weighed against the Github info AND the insider speculation, AND other things like the IT Media report and Bloomberg article (btw Jason Schreir is working there now so if someone wants to say the Bloomberg stuff isn't worth considering I hope they'll hold that consistent standard when Schreir starts his write-ups, or will Bloomberg mysteriously be credible when that happens?).

BTW you're one of the posters I was referring to earlier when I mentioned to BGs BGs that his statements might negatively contribute to more FUD going forward. Just wanted to explicitly mention that.

thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best Just let me give you some little advice. Unless you want people searching inside your post history, stop accusing every 'insider' here of spreading FUD. Was fun, but lets move on and forget all those hype generated.

This is a ridiculous statement, and maybe I was wrong in saying the thread wasn't full of FUD from some other posters after all. Go ahead, search my post history. Show me exactly where I accused EVERY insider of spreading FUD!

Good luck, because I never said that. I said BGs made a statement today that, whether it was their intention or not, might contribute to future FUD in regards next-gen discussions. Apparently now that involves posters like you creating FUD against me as well.

So I think this'll be my final post in this thread. It's pretty obvious some of you guys have some twisted logic in trying to call me out on stuff I haven't even said, simply because I had the gall to disagree with BGs. And I still stand by that disagreement with them. They responded back, and I responded to their response. They clearly don't need you guys to white knight for them.

I agree, with moving on. I'm out of this thread. Knock yourselves out.
 
I don't understand the logic you are driving – it is a 'direct' 'x' 'box' console – what logic is there to selling a console with an OS that has to use DirectX (for its drawcalls) and then not have devs use that critical component of the API ?

if the XsX doesn't copy the data from CPU to GPU (via client/server mechanisms) performance will be even worse than the scenario I'm infering.

Your scenario is that every drawcall the GPU will receive will be copied from the slower CPU ram to the GPU L2 cache directly – to save on less than hundred kilobytes per frame of bandwidth disruption.

My scenario was CPU ram to GPU ram, then GPU ram to L2 cache.
If you can't see the optimal critical path that keeps the XsX GPU utilised higher then I'm happy to agree to disagree and wait to see how memory performance pans out in 12 months from now when GDC talks will be addressing console issues and solutions.
The memory is shared, every piece of data needed by both GPU and CPU - if it needs high reading speeds it will be in the 10GB partition, if it doesn't it will be on the 3.5GB partition. If both CPU and GPU need access to a piece of data and that data will need to be accessed at 560GB/s, why put it on the 3.5GB partition in the first place? I'm gladly willing to disagree, wait a few weeks, and see DF videos analyzing third party games running on both machines.
 
Last edited:
My sources tell me that Lisa Su will be smothering her own hot and sticky special sauce all over every XSX APU. Also I have it on good authority that Mark Cerny himself will be blessing all PS5 APUs as they come off the line and encouraging them not to deviate too far from their boost clocks.
 
LOL, holy shit.







Why are they pretending like custom features from the next architecture revision have never existed?

The original Xbox was based off next gen graphics tech of programmable shaders that found its way into the PC later with GF3, and the PS4 has done it with borrowing next GCN revisions of Polaris features of Async increasing to 64 sources for the compute commands, then borrowing FP16 from Vega while still on Polaris with the Pro.


DF (pre Dictator) even mentions themselves about the Pro having Vega features before Vega cards even hit the market.


Something the X1X did not have on Polaris only, even a year later with a beefier GPU and bandwidth than the Pro, obviously, they had zero Vega features. That seemed exclusive to Sony and AMD at the time.

Which then points that Sony seems to dig a litter deeper with having access to a customization feature or two from the next revision before they hit AMDs own PC Cards/chipsets.

If the Pro can be Polaris with Vega features, then the PS5 can have some next architecture revision features as well. It seems to be a pattern with Sony that for some reason (we know the reason), people forget they have done since partnering with AMD on the PS4.

And isn't the next Ryzen 4 (RDNA3) apus and mobo/chipsets rumored to have a memory IO setup for SSDs similar to what we are hearing with the PS5? Hmmm 🤔
 
Last edited:
Firing off loads, or prefetching memory (or in some architectures running ahead just to warm up the predictors and loca caches, see Niagara's speculative threads approach), and scheduling non data dependent instructions is quite common place in any out of order front CPU. GPU wise is also pretty common to execute non data dependent math heavy workload waiting for data to be loaded in the chip (it is common practice to balance texture/memory loads instructions with compute work and or run shaders that have data ready to go... GPU's are latency tolerant throughout machines).
Welp, GPU achieves latency hiding with fine grained multithreading (and memory access coalescing?) But within each thread (wrap/wavefront) a load/store instruction will block (not stall), I think we can agree on that?
 
There are reasons MS picked DF to do their deep dive reveals and if anyone thinks everyone at DF is totally unbiased I have some land to sell them.
And probably why Sony went with Wired instead of Digital Foundry.

Not saying everyone is biased there but it's pretty obvious who is.

Kingthrash Kingthrash Has been saying this for so long, He continuously insists it started with MS choosing them over everyone else to showcase the premier of the Xbox One X on their Youtube channel.
 
That they've made (logical) customizations means they've made enough customizations to efficiently harness the power of their beast? I can assure you that I have not seen money from anyone for making my statements. But I am sure that large companies do collect sales with theirs. Another thing is what you find at home after buying your products. That's then where you will really see what the FUD is (you know that I have not bothered to look for what FUD means but because of the tone it should not be a good thing, if I am wrong receive my cordial apologies).

Regarding VR, I have tried pretty well what Microsoft was up to, and what do you want me to tell you? No wonder it ended up in the trash (which is where it is now). When things are delayed and plans change, it is not precisely because they are going well. There are also two statements from Microsoft that went strangely unnoticed (oh what a coincidence). In one they said that they had no intention of maintaining an open war with Sony in this generation. In the other they said that VR was not important to them. Who knows, maybe it's because they knew things that users sometimes miss.

The day they present something interesting about it I will be the first of my company to promote development for that system, as I have always done, even with the "HorrorLens" (don't get me wrong, it is my opinion, I think that AR / VR is the future applied to a contact lens, and everything that we are living now, victories and failures, is necessary to reach that goal, I only hope that they improve it as soon as possible the better to be able to enjoy it before I die.

I don't forget nothing (forget? Forgot?). For the last few weeks I have been fighting for my life against Covid and I have buried about family and friends (well, legally it has not yet been allowed to officiate the funeral), but I have had a long time to be well informed of everything that happens in my sector in my long bed's days. And I can assure you that if I respond to your replies it is not out of offense, but out of courtesy and politeness, because honestly I will sleep just as calm, whether you believe my statements or not. There are more important things in this life and if one thing I have learned is that you cannot make everyone happy. I only hope that my information does not lead you to make a wrong decision.
My condolences for your friends and family, hope you're feeling better.

Just for the record, FUD is an acronym for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
 
Kingthrash Kingthrash Has been saying this for so long, He continuously insists it started with MS choosing them over everyone else to showcase the premier of the Xbox One X on their Youtube channel.

I don't want to sound like a fanboy or anything. But it's pretty obvious that Sony doesn't really trust Digital Foundry.

I'm not saying that they are bad but it certainly isn't in Sonys interest to entrust them with information on the tech.
 
Last edited:
LOL, holy shit.






Man that Alex guy is so off putting with his lack of foresight. Really demeans the DF brand. They really need to have strong word with him.

How hard is it to envision that custom features developed by AMD/Sony or AMD/MS for this gen may see them implemented stock into future AMD hardware, aka RNDA3. Jesus wept.
 
I don't want to sound like a fanboy or anything. But it's pretty obvious that Sony doesn't really trust Digital Foundry.

I'm not saying that they are bad but it certainly isn't in Sonys interest to entrust them with information on the tech.
But the deep dive on the PS5 architecture was with Rich. He is from the old "UK Resistance" guard of Sega, but he is first and foremost a professional and the in depth feature was not biased. I criticised DF when taking subjective points of view but most of the time are a top notch channel.

btw, I love some next gen chat at late hour. Great company for the insomnia.
 
Last edited:
But the deep dive on the PS5 architecture was with Rich. He is from the old "UK Resistance" guard of Sega, but he is first and foremost a professional and the in depth feature was not biased. I criticised DF when taking subjective points of view but most of the time are a top notch channel.

btw, I love some next gen chat at late hour. Great company for the insomnia.

You're right about that. I think the attitude of one digital foundry employee is overshadowing the work that the others are doing. Nothing wrong with Richard or John but Alex is a problem with his bias. Especially after being part of that Discord group I really can't trust his opinion and the same goes for Dealer.
 
Man that Alex guy is so off putting with his lack of foresight. Really demeans the DF brand. They really need to have strong word with him.

How hard is it to envision that custom features developed by AMD/Sony or AMD/MS for this gen may see them implemented stock into future AMD hardware, aka RNDA3. Jesus wept.

It's already happened with the PS4 and the PS4 Pro. Even talked about in a DF article (pre Alex). They are being intellectually dishonest.


The Pro, a Polaris revision of GCN, has some Vega features which was the next GCN revision at the time. Features before the Vega cards launched. The X1X, even 1 year later, had no Vega access or features. Even after Vega was out.

The next Ryzen 4 chipset IO (RDNA3) is supposed to have memory modifications rumored to be like the SSD controller features that we see in the PS5. Especially for their gaming laptop APUs they are hyping up.
 
Last edited:
You're right about that. I think the attitude of one digital foundry employee is overshadowing the work that the others are doing. Nothing wrong with Richard or John but Alex is a problem with his bias. Especially after being part of that Discord group I really can't trust his opinion and the same goes for Dealer.
Who is Dealer? Is a YouTuber? I'm not so into the game press as I used to be.

So, I might have a theory of why every dev is so happy with the PS5 despite being the weaker. The main failure of this generation is RAM. Nobody can't argue that they went big with CPU-GPU but this is a sum zero game and the box must be sell at a mass market price. So both companies went with a 2x increase in RAM pool. They are both relaying on their SSDs to make up for the lack of RAM.

So, it's been said that it remains to be seen if the superior PS5 SSD is used by the developers and I want to debunk that. In my opinion they have to. You see, the SSD is not there only for fast loading in the SX. They have to steam assets on the fly to make up for the tiny jump on RAM size and speed. In the SX case is even worse since they have to feed 1.7TF more of power. That's why they have that "virtual memory" thing.

So, it's not a matter of having some devs using the SSD of the PS5 to stream on the fly to the RAM, is that they have to have that in their engines (for AAA, of course) for the whole new generation, and therefore the significante more efficient architecture of Sony is noticed there.

What do you guys think about it?
 
There are reasons MS picked DF to do their deep dive reveals and if anyone thinks everyone at DF is totally unbiased I have some land to sell them.
I don't think DF is biass the thing is we know one of its member looks like it is, Alex was/is part of some famous discord channel full the ''la crème de la crème ",
he also is basically disagree everytime some dev say something about how the SSD will change the way the games are done, he basically get angry just
for mention if the PS5 can has a feature of RDNA 3 (hard to happen but not impossible).

I trust in those guys for make analysis of an already release technology but since any of them work actively as a graphic engineer in a studio sorry
but for me that doesn't mean they know more than people who actually make a game It is like seeing a film critic tell a cinematographer that shots
are impossible.
 
Last edited:
Ah, almost missed these.

No, BGs contributed to FUD with that statement. It's clear as day. Fake Fake , you're right that no one has to believe them...so why are you bringing that up? Are you implying anyone who doesn't believe someone should just..... not say anything? Just stay silent? Sorry but free speech doesn't work that way.

If someone, regardless of their stature, has the freedom to post wrong information or speculation that doesn't have much room to exist since actual info that contradicts it is out there, I have the freedom to speak up on it. It's that simple.

Rusco Da Vino Rusco Da Vino Look I know it's hard for someone such as yourself to have your own independent thought on these matters, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have that same issue. See how well the whole aspect of being vetted or not did for several insiders during the earlier parts of speculation here.

And I was one of the people who said, even then, that if they turned out to be wrong on some things, people shouldn't go out blaming them, attacking them, "shooting the messenger" more or less. But it's also been established early on I don't take someone's word as gospel just because they're a "vetted dev".

Oh and please tell me what PS5 FUD I've created? Go ahead, pull up my quotes. You won't find any. Anything I speculated about PS5 early on was framed as just that: speculation. And I almost always gave caveats with that, too. I didn't jump on the "PS5 has no hardware RT" train when that tried picking up steam. I never fully committed to the "PS5 is 9 TF" train, either. In fact I gave room for a 48 CU PS5 chip in my speculations, and that was weighed against the Github info AND the insider speculation, AND other things like the IT Media report and Bloomberg article (btw Jason Schreir is working there now so if someone wants to say the Bloomberg stuff isn't worth considering I hope they'll hold that consistent standard when Schreir starts his write-ups, or will Bloomberg mysteriously be credible when that happens?).

BTW you're one of the posters I was referring to earlier when I mentioned to BGs BGs that his statements might negatively contribute to more FUD going forward. Just wanted to explicitly mention that.



This is a ridiculous statement, and maybe I was wrong in saying the thread wasn't full of FUD from some other posters after all. Go ahead, search my post history. Show me exactly where I accused EVERY insider of spreading FUD!

Good luck, because I never said that. I said BGs made a statement today that, whether it was their intention or not, might contribute to future FUD in regards next-gen discussions. Apparently now that involves posters like you creating FUD against me as well.

So I think this'll be my final post in this thread. It's pretty obvious some of you guys have some twisted logic in trying to call me out on stuff I haven't even said, simply because I had the gall to disagree with BGs. And I still stand by that disagreement with them. They responded back, and I responded to their response. They clearly don't need you guys to white knight for them.

I agree, with moving on. I'm out of this thread. Knock yourselves out.
It has been hard to read your post until the end; too much nonsense, silly BS and embarrassing double standards per m²
But thank you for the good ending. It is good to know that was your last post here. I booked it ;)
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't be surprised if cross gen games were 90-120FPS considering the differences from GCN to RDNA2. An additional 30FPS being the main difference between mid gen and next-gen sounds too low.
Games locked at 30fps probably run between 40-50fps 99% of the time on current consoles.

So expecting 60fps is only par for the course, however aiming for 100+ fps on consoles is a waste for most people... we plug our consoles on 60hz TVs, at least for the next few years. I just got a 4K TV last year, I intend to keep for for 10 years, like I did with my HD TV.

I want 60FPS locked with graphics as good as they can be.
 
So, it's not a matter of having some devs using the SSD of the PS5 to stream on the fly to the RAM, is that they have to have that in their engines (for AAA, of course) for the whole new generation, and therefore the significante more efficient architecture of Sony is noticed there.
Yes and another member of DF says the last time we were in a similar situation was in Nintendo 64 era where was possible to run code from ROM .

All the studio are working to optimize its games, how much time this will take it ? that depends of many things.

Now those dev has a good SSD (I am talking for both consoles), RT by hardware, chips of audio which doesn't need the CPU and
the era of Machine learning algorithm are just start it.

This will take time but this change is very big for them and requires also time to try to change they way they think.
 
What do you guys think about it?

I don't know where I saw this but there's claims that with the extra power the Xbox Series X really needs to have 20GB of ram to have the optimal amount. I'm not sure that I understand the reasoning behind that because power wise it's not a big difference between the two systems.
 
Kingthrash Kingthrash Has been saying this for so long, He continuously insists it started with MS choosing them over everyone else to showcase the premier of the Xbox One X on their Youtube channel.

This old thread is brutal.

 
This old thread is brutal.


I remember that. Resolution does matter but it all depends if you can notice the difference in resolution. Like for example I have a 4K monitor but I game at 1440P. The reason why I do that is that I can't tell the difference between 4K and 1440P on that screen. By lowering the resolution I can improve the frame rate quite a bit.

Now why did I buy a 4K monitor? Its because that extra resolution is useful for the work that I do.
 
This old thread is brutal.

I am afraid to read that thread.
 
Kingthrash Kingthrash Has been saying this for so long, He continuously insists it started with MS choosing them over everyone else to showcase the premier of the Xbox One X on their Youtube channel.
Nah it started long before that. I remember them making a big deal out of 20p differences between Xbox 360 and ps3 versions of games.

It all changed when the ps4 launched. Then you got articles like the one linked above.

Then they did another 180 once the x launched. Resolution matters again.

I think they have improved a lot since the ps3 gen. Richard is much older and doesn't seem to give a shit. Any bias he has now is mostly subconscious. It manifests in embarrassing ways like when he interviewed cerny and refused to take his word for it. And then proceeded to muddy the waters by getting quotes from devs using outdated devkits as if he was trying up prove cerny is a liar.

I don't think he does it on purpose but he definitely doesn't examine ms claims the way he does Sony.

John is ok. He just likes graphics and both him and Richard are fun to watch when they are just discussing games.

Alex though is unwatchable. He reeks of ps3 era Richard.
 
WHERE ARE THE MODS NOW!!!!!????
Seriously?

tumblr_p7kd6jlSVC1t5zezro3_500.gifv
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom