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[James Sawyer Ford]

that is my prediction

hope it is true

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

We were all there once true but not everyone starts their membership by spreading misinformation.
You can't paint everyone with the same brush.

He spreads his own FUD so yeah you can in his case

 

[PaintTinJr]

4GB chips don't exist yet AFAIK? Given the stuff we know about the make up of PS5 I would guess the design has always been for 8 GDDR6 chips so 16GB has been a lock from basically the start. I also believe PS4 was designed to used 16 2Gb GDDR5 chips but were able to switch them to 4Gb ones in time for launch (Q3/Q4 2012).

It could be they do 16 1GB chips but that would make for a very densely populated motherboard! I also seem to remember one of the first things Matt (the dev) told us here back in 2017 was 32GB wasn't needed and we wouldn't be getting.

I presume you are correct about them needing to double the number of modules, as I couldn't find a GDDR6 solution for 4GB modules on Samsung's website - so unless it was a bleeding edge new product that isn't available - so it looks like 2GB with two lots of 8 would be the only option as you said.

I agree that 32GB isn't needed-needed, but if they could get 32GB in at this point it would more than double the IO complex effectiveness IMHO.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I presume you are correct about them needing to double the number of modules, as I couldn't find a GDDR6 solution for 4GB modules on Samsung's website - so unless it was a bleeding edge new product that isn't available - so it looks like 2GB with two lots of 8 would be the only option as you said.

I agree that 32GB isn't needed-needed, but if they could get 32GB in at this point it would more than double the IO complex effectiveness IMHO.

It would make quite the headline having 32GB I agree but I don't think they will push the price into PS3 territory. They learnt that lesson the hard way and have avoided the $499/$599 price since.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I saw this on Twitter today as well.

It's a reasonable prediction that it will happen on the 11th, we discussed this here yesterday as well. I don't think this guy has any inside info, no one does because I don't think Sony have even made a final decision yet.

 

[PaintTinJr]

If anything Sony would increase the RAM chips speed from 14 to 16 gbs if they thought it was necessary. With streaming they dont need more RAM.

You could be right, but I don't think ram speed is going to make it easier to do the UE5 demo at 60fps, than another 16GBs of RAM would. My thinking being, that unpacking data could occupy memory for an extra frame, meaning if it was needed in the following frame, then it wouldn't need streamed again in real-time, and a processing saving would be achieved by it still being resident in the other 16GB.

 

[Jtibh]

I saw this on Twitter today as well.

It's a reasonable prediction that it will happen on the 11th, we discussed this here yesterday as well. I don't think this guy has any inside info, no one does because I don't think Sony have even made a final decision yet.

The elite loves the 11th.
Its cultic number.
It has history.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Guys, to hold me over this week should I get RE3R or Dreams? Both on sale this week

 

[geordiemp]

You could be right, but I don't think ram speed is going to make it easier to do the UE5 demo at 60fps, than another 16GBs of RAM would. My thinking being, that unpacking data could occupy memory for an extra frame, meaning if it was needed in the following frame, then it wouldn't need streamed again in real-time, and a processing saving would be achieved by it still being resident in the other 16GB.

The weakest part of the Ps5 design is RAM bandwidth, so it would help allot, 15 % would help allot.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Given the reception the UE5 demo has had since it was shown, and the impact it has had on the retrospective perception of the Road to PS5 talk, and the shuffling of notions about PC specs to exceed the PS5 IO complex, I'm now wondering if Playstation are considering doubling the GDDR6 memory for the PS5 - even if it would commit them to a PS3 £650 price for 12-18months.

My thinking is, people are loving the the idea of nanite and lumens in PS5 games, and feel that the hardware is near perfection for next-gen - with the only real PS5 fan concern being price for the wider market if the BOM is already less than ideal.
Given the legs an extra 16GB of the GDDR6 would give to UE5 on PS5 and offset rapid changes in RT on GPUs over the gen , 32GB of GDDR6 (IMHO) would genuinely justify a £650 launch price for a PS5 and potentially remove the need to subsides it for the first 10M buyers(if like me they are now buying regradless of price)...so potentially working out cheaper than a lesser BOM for 16GB that then needed a £100 subsidy for those first 10M sales.

It would also put the Xbox in a tricky position as upping the memory on the XsX to appear to compete wouldn't be so straight forward (AFAIK) and just end up being a BOM issue and increase the need for XsS.

It would undo the massive effort put in on the storage speed side of things. 16 GB is a lot of data if it’s all being used mostly immediately and not just caching common assets.

Money would be better spent on faster RAM, not more of it.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I've been having some thoughts recently. I always used to think that slow loading times and travels and everything related to that was because of the issue of "processing", as in the CPU/GPU used to take to long to render the game hence the long loading times. I actually used to have no idea this had to do with the I/O of the storage, it does make sense that Sony designed a blazing fast SSD on one end and a highly clocked GPU on the other end, the two seem to compliment each other very well. This is why I was doubtful that the UE5 demo could run on any other console including the Series x. Especially that flying sequence, I also think this is what Matt from REE was referring to when he said the PS5's SSD will allow for games to be created which just can't be playable on the other platforms because of their I/O

 

[MasterCornholio]

Money would be better spent on faster RAM, not more of it.

Reminds of the rumors of Sony testing faster ram on the system. I guess cost was a factor.

 

[SlimySnake]

Guys, to hold me over this week should I get RE3R or Dreams? Both on sale this week

ive had both for months but i havent played either past the first 60 minutes.

dreams has a hidden campaign called arts dream that i didnt even know about. its pretty cool. wildly imaginative, but again i havent gone back to it so not sure if i can recommend it. my friends said its amazing

re3r feels more of the same so far. i am not liking it as much as i thought i would. but again, i am only an hour in.

i would say pick up both because i have a feeling these games just start slow and pick up like half way through.

 

[PaintTinJr]

It would make quite the headline having 32GB I agree but I don't think they will push the price into PS3 territory. They learnt that lesson the hard way and have avoided the $499/$599 price since.

They did, but had the ps3 not been a year late with bad yields and a last minute RSX GPU inclusion - messing up their unified RAM - I think the risk/reward would have worked out differently.

I think judging by the wider positive reception in the gaming media about the PS5, emanating directly from this thread on neogaf - judging by the amount of attempted derails by dubious accounts that get banned- the PS5 could easily sell at PS3 prices but at the rate of a PS4 (IMHO), so long as the game lineup is strong.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

The elite loves the 11th.
Its cultic number.
It has history.

It makes sense, on the 11th of this month Mark Cerny shall emerge and reveal the PS5 thus dissipating into the Cosmos and becoming our final Overlord.

All hail the Great and Powerfull Cerny!

 

[Neo Blaster]

 

[MasterCornholio]

It makes sense, on the 11th of this month Mark Cerny shall emerge and reveal the PS5 thus dissipating into the Cosmos and becoming our final Overlord.

All hail the Great and Powerfull Cerny!

 

[PaintTinJr]

It would undo the massive effort put in on the storage speed side of things. 16 GB is a lot of data if it’s all being used mostly immediately and not just caching common assets.

Money would be better spent on faster RAM, not more of it.

I don't understand that from a technical perspective. The heavy lifting of the IO complex is unpacking data as needed. Any redundancy that can be removed yields more than the bandwidth, because it alleviates the IO complex to unpack other assets at higher fidelity, and with space to house them - for say the foreground h/w accelerated RT models then being able to have twice as many, or twice the fidelity. But in relation to UE5 demo, it could even allow for pseudo-animation of those background assets, by essentially transition between different preset configurations - at that fidelity -by having enough RAM to do so.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Cerny the GOAT! (or Fox).

 

[Xplainin]

Rumours = a guy on twitter pulling stuff out of his ass.

I thought it came from a guy on b3d?

 

[Gamernyc78]

It makes sense, on the 11th of this month Mark Cerny shall emerge and reveal the PS5 thus dissipating into the Cosmos and becoming our final Overlord.

All hail the Great and Powerfull Cerny!

Hmmm has he finally reached the phase of ascension ? It all makes sense now

 

[MasterCornholio]

Cerny the GOAT! (or Fox).

The most cringiest moment of the movie in my opinion.

 

[PaintTinJr]

The weakest part of the Ps5 design is RAM bandwidth, so it would help allot, 15 % would help allot.

I'm pretty sure it is balanced in the PS5 for CPU/GPU based on the cache scrubbers in regards of how they are using async compute for lumen and nanite, but for the Tempest engine it did sound like another 20GB/s would be nice. I still think if they had the option for 32GB, they would choose that over 15% ram boost, but only because the more RAM, (assuming tricks are found) the more of the game foreground they can render using nanite/lumen too, which would visually offset the extra 20TF of RT that a RTX 5080ti will have in 5years time

 

[Lethal01]

Pretty key info, can't for a system that has the best of both worlds down the line. Or maybe by that point we will have far better compression algorithms.

Edit: I... don't get all the Lols, is it because it's old?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I thought it came from a guy on b3d?

Read the rest of his badly written replies to see how much he really understands about the process and what his “concerns” are.
Immediately talks about PS5 as being a 9.1TF console that had all the SmartShift and entirely new energy usage paradigm thrown in at the last second because 12TF.
Smells like bollocks to me.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I thought it came from a guy on b3d?

Ok so the rumor was originally started by Eastmen on b3d. Then blue said that what he said is true plus he has sources within Microsoft confirming the opposite.

General Next Generation Rumors and Discussions [Post GDC 2020]

Sort of a variable target though. If you are looking for the cream of the crop chip and not getting as many, you're bound to have poorer yields than a lower binned chip. Sony wouldn't be aiming for cream of the crop, this would be crazy expensive because you're literally binning everything...

forum.beyond3d.com

In my opinion neither of the two are reliable sources of information plus it just seems like discord FUD to me. Especially since some suspect that Eastmen is Colteastwoods account on b3d and we know blue is a follower of Mr X.

 

[jonnyp]

Find it very difficult to believe that somehow PS5's APU has worse yields than MS's on the same process from the same company.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Ok so the rumor was originally started by Eastmen on b3d. Then blue said that what he said is true plus he has sources within Microsoft confirming the opposite.

If blue nugroho is tweeting about it, then the yields are fine.

 

[Andodalf]

Find it very difficult to believe that somehow PS5's APU has worse yields than MS's on the same process from the same company.

Especially when MS most likely has a significantly larger Die

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The most cringiest moment of the movie in my opinion.

Every Hollywood comedy more than 20 years old is cringe! Part of the charm and they get a pass.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I saw this on Twitter today as well.

It's a reasonable prediction that it will happen on the 11th, we discussed this here yesterday as well. I don't think this guy has any inside info, no one does because I don't think Sony have even made a final decision yet.

I don't buy it, a reasonable leak would just have a date, but this guy got an image confirming the event? When he himself admits it's tentative to change due to the US situation(how convenient)?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

ive had both for months but i havent played either past the first 60 minutes.

dreams has a hidden campaign called arts dream that i didnt even know about. its pretty cool. wildly imaginative, but again i havent gone back to it so not sure if i can recommend it. my friends said its amazing

re3r feels more of the same so far. i am not liking it as much as i thought i would. but again, i am only an hour in.

i would say pick up both because i have a feeling these games just start slow and pick up like half way through.

I played the RE3 demo and liked it, but no sure if I’m in an RE mood

dreams has always looked cool but the campaign is like 3 hours or something

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I don't buy it, a reasonable leak would just have a date, but this guy got an image confirming the event? When he himself admits it's tentative to change due to the US situation(how convenient)?

Yeah lmao he said the decision isn't final and Sony could just hold the event at the end of the month, clearly he's just trying to cover his ass in case the event isn't on the 11th and people realised he was pulling information out his backside.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Pretty nice info, can't wait to get a system that has the best of both worlds down the line.

I'm not 100% sure about that second tweet, but I think the word 'combined' is the wrong choice, and should have been 'in parallel', so that it doesn't read like you can zlib compress Bcpack textures - when presumably it means transferring of Bcpack textures and zlib game data in parallel to RAM from SSD - obviously sharing bandwidth.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Yeah lmao he said the decision isn't final and Sony could just hold the event at the end of the month, clearly he's just trying to cover his ass in case the event isn't on the 11th and people realised he was pulling information out his backside.

I know, I just don't buy that image.

 

[TLZ]

If, as rumours suggest, Sony's chip yields are shit and they need to come in with a higher price than Xbox, the other way they will win is with objectively far better looking games to sell people on next-gen. This whole 'we want to focus on PS5-only experiences' stuff might be a way for them to justify $50 or $100 more than Xbox.

If they can somehow put across messaging along the lines of, "Sure Xbox Series X is cheaper but look at their games. You can play them on a current-gen system why waste your money? Come over to us and we'll give you a true next-gen experience".

Lower price + better performance won Sony the battle with PS4 but this time around, it looks like lower performance (on paper) and potentially a higher price for Sony. They really need to nail the games.

Not really. The rumor I was referencing actually came from Bloomberg back in February.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Nothing wrong with what I posted. Not my fault people get riled up for no reason. Cabin fever?

 

[TLZ]

Cabin fever? More like bullshitter fever. I would love to see where, in that article, is a mention to chip yields. It talks about NAND flash memory and DRAM, which, by the way, is something affecting both consoles. So, yeah, you're spreading bullshit rumors when talking about chip yields.

And honestly, I'm not usually this confrontational, but it gets tiring seeing people left and right saying stuff that has no resemblance of truth. What a beautiful time to be alive.

And then they go crying playing the victim why they get banned. "But it's only speculation".

Speculation my ass.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

I'm pretty sure it is balanced in the PS5 for CPU/GPU based on the cache scrubbers in regards of how they are using async compute for lumen and nanite, but for the Tempest engine it did sound like another 20GB/s would be nice. I still think if they had the option for 32GB, they would choose that over 15% ram boost, but only because the more RAM, (assuming tricks are found) the more of the game foreground they can render using nanite/lumen too, which would visually offset the extra 20TF of RT that a RTX 5080ti will have in 5years time

While I do not see RAM being increased beyond 16 GB, a speed increase is possible, though unlikely (increasing costs in an already expensive machine). Also, we do not yet know the details of the L4 cache, which may turn out to be large and stacked, mitigating concerns around bandwidth.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

While I do not see RAM being increased beyond 16 GB, a speed increase is possible, though unlikely (increasing costs in an already expensive machine). Also, we do not yet know the details of the L4 cache, which may turn out to be large and stacked, mitigating concerns around bandwidth.

L4 cache? What/where is that in the APU?

 

[Entroyp]

If blue nugroho is tweeting about it, then the yields are fine.

In this guy’s universe everything goes wrong for Sony and everything goes right for MS.... hmmmm that’s suspicious.

 

[Entroyp]

While I do not see RAM being increased beyond 16 GB, a speed increase is possible, though unlikely (increasing costs in an already expensive machine). Also, we do not yet know the details of the L4 cache, which may turn out to be large and stacked, mitigating concerns around bandwidth.

What L4 cache?

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

L4 cache? What/where is that in the APU?

Oh, I am sorry, I am just assuming that there is one, but I have not seen any explicit reference.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

What L4 cache?

Right, my assumption as I have not seen any explicit reference.

 

[TLZ]

I'm not reading anything about bad yields from that Bloomberg article. Just about scarce parts but that could be attributed to any number of reasons.

From the Bloomberg article: "The company’s biggest headache is ensuring a reliable supply of DRAM and NAND flash memory, with both in high demand as smartphone makers gear up for fifth-generation devices, according to people familiar with Sony’s operations."

Your claim on what Bloomberg said.

"If, as rumours suggest, Sony's chip yields are shit and they need to come in with a higher price than Xbox"

So why are you not making a reference to the actual origins of the rumor?

Edit: Found the source.

General Next Generation Rumors and Discussions [Post GDC 2020]

Sort of a variable target though. If you are looking for the cream of the crop chip and not getting as many, you're bound to have poorer yields than a lower binned chip. Sony wouldn't be aiming for cream of the crop, this would be crazy expensive because you're literally binning everything...

forum.beyond3d.com

Now I know why you didn't want to use the actual source.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I thought so at first but... why the hell call it series X in the first place?

Why call your third console "One", or "SAD"? They just don't make sense.

 

[PaintTinJr]

While I do not see RAM being increased beyond 16 GB, a speed increase is possible, though unlikely (increasing costs in an already expensive machine). Also, we do not yet know the details of the L4 cache, which may turn out to be large and stacked, mitigating concerns around bandwidth.

The thing that has just occurred to me is, that PS5 devkits, if they've followed the normal path of devkits should have twice the RAM(32GB) of a retail unit (16GB)- for the ability to mirror all the data for when they need to debug, but without interfering with the in-flight code IIRC - so the solution to a last minute bump in RAM for a retail unit should already be in place from the devkit design. IIRC wasn't that the situation when the PS4 got a RAM upgrade from 4GB to 8GB? Original PS4 devkits had 8GB, 4GB for game/os and 4GB for debug or am I remembering that wrong?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I still know a lot of people gaming on launch day base PS4 and Xbox Ones.

Imagine how big of an upgrade going to an RDNA 2 chip with an SSD will be to them even at 4 ish TFs

Personally, going from base PS4 to PS4 Pro (both day one) was massive. It's as much as 360p vs 1080 or 720p vs 4K content.

Noticed the shift in Watch Dogs 2, most of the small text became readable from a distance! I would love more native 4K, but the UE5 has made me confused for a game, as it appeared like a slightly blurry native 4K, which I can live with until PS5 Pro.

 

[TLZ]

Girls come & go but my PS4

Ahaaaah this is some hilarious shit

 

[SlimySnake]

Girls come & go but my PS4

lmao. this is so true.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's why I read the articles.

We are here to discuss facts and possibilities. What we are not here for is to make up information.