Bo_Hazem
Banned
Put in mind that's 1440p upscaled, that's why some grain helps masking that and it's very, very slightly blurry compared to native 4K. Give me 1440p everyday in that case.
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Put in mind that's 1440p upscaled, that's why some grain helps masking that and it's very, very slightly blurry compared to native 4K. Give me 1440p everyday in that case.
geordiemp
Member
Your displaying a higher res textuire over a lower one and blending it in so you dont get that POP.
The higher res texture has arrived late, or you would not be blending it over the poorer texture - there would be no need lol.
SFS is a blended pop in for data misses....But MS have PR and dressed it up to a multiplier - its sort of is, in that you can have a smaller streaming pool and you have a band aid so it does not look as bad when streaming fucks up.....
What do you think it is ? Must be magic
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
MasterCornholio
Member
Your displaying a higher res textuire over a lower one and belding it in so you dont get that POP.
The higher res texture has arrived late, or you would not be blending it over the poorer texture - there would be no need lol.
SFS is a blended pop in for data misses....But MS have PR and dressed it up to a multiplier - its sort of is, in that you can have a smaller streaming pool and you have a band aid so it does not look as bad when streaming fucks up.....
What do you think it is ? Must be magic
I see so it's really a way to stop pop in from happening. I'm pretty sure if your I/O is fast enough Pop-in shouldn't happen in the first place.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Your displaying a higher res textuire over a lower one and belding it in so you dont get that POP.
The higher res texture has arrived late, or you would not be blending it over the poorer texture - there would be no need lol.
SFS is a blended pop in for data misses....But MS have PR and dressed it up to a multiplier - its sort of is, in that you can have a smaller streaming pool and you have a band aid so it does not look as bad when streaming fucks up.....
What do you think it is ? Must be magic
That sounds like only good for old LOD's method. Most PS5 games should skip LOD's going forward.
jimbojim
Banned
Saw this image floating around, XVA better than PS5's I/O complex confirmed. Misinformation is around the corner. People just outright refuse to accept PS5 has an advantage over XSX. Funny enough, this is the same people that gets mad at others who can't accept the GPU advantage on XSX.
Holy shit! I'm impressed by Jason Ronald ( Director of Program Management at Xbox ) and his buzzwords, instead of Andrew Goossen ( Xbox System Architect ) who said that XSX SSD is 6 GB/s theoretical max. for decompression method. /s
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geordiemp
Member
Yeah but its good XSX has it so third parties can push streaming and smaller streaming pool of data - the 1 second Cerny talks about....Ps5 does not need a back up as its IO is crazy.
Bryank75
Banned
What happened? He got a ban or something?
Yes XSX bus is capable of 560GB/s, but while the GPU is getting fed at that speed can you explain how the CPU and rest of the system gets access to the memory?There's no need to takie into account slower memory pool in real game scenario, because no developer will use more than 10 GB just for textures with only 13.5 GB available. So dont worry, XSX GPU will be well feed with tasty 560 GB/s BW.
(Apologies I know this is from 30 pages back, I got shit loads of catching up to do!)
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
jimbojim
Banned
Let me help you in some way :
I think it can.
Like twit says, it was used without Oodle
"The Sony test sets I know of (that were used to eval the Kraken HW during development) were all assets from (now several year old) PS4 games. So that figure is probably on non-Oodle Texture data."
And this :
Oodle Texture slashes game sizes
Oodle Texture is a new technology we've developed at RAD Game Tools which promises to dramatically shrink game sizes, reducing what you ...cbloomrants.blogspot.com
So, this means compression ratio can be more than 3 to 1. That also means compression can be around 17 GB/s
Alex Scott
Member
So Microsoft did not even bother to optomize their demo to show off their velocity architecture , sfs and their ssd speed multiplier.
geordiemp
Member
Only if its using Nanite or a similar engine technique.....and not traditional rendering. Nanite cant do grass hair or people YET so traditional is not dead YET.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
This isn't completely true. You still have the efficiency that you only load a sub portion of the mip. This still results in x2.5 memory efficiency that can be used for other stuff.Your displaying a higher res textuire over a lower one and blending it in so you dont get that POP.
The higher res texture has arrived late, or you would not be blending it over the poorer texture - there would be no need lol.
SFS is a blended pop in for data misses....But MS have PR and dressed it up to a multiplier - its sort of is, in that you can have a smaller streaming pool and you have a band aid so it does not look as bad when streaming fucks up.....
What do you think it is ? Must be magic
Tiago07
Member
New shots of the UE 5 demo assets, It's still the best showcase of next gen possibilities by a wide margin.
Love those lips
I want to know yet, how megascans will be used in games.
Sony has their Films Division and now PlayStation can use those assets to input in a game. This also implies to their special effects division, and PlayStation can handle VFX in real time too.
But for now the Nanite belongs only to Epic and we don't have much information about Decima and other Sony Studios Engines about these technologies.
We know that Horizon FW is not using these cinematic scans, but we Know SpiderMan Miles Morales is using 4D scans (For the characters if I'm not wrong).
If we can input Sony Films Division with games, I think we will reach "movie quality" games and it will be amazing. I hope they show something like that to our next games in the next event (imagine a GOW and a ND like a movie it would be incredible).
geordiemp
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
From the sounds of it I'm guessing the PS5s I/O is easier to use since developers don't have to do anything unusual to take advantage of it.
geordiemp
Member
Yes it is true, SFS is a hardware blended shader. Thats what it is to help when stuff arives a few frames late (Goosen).
All the benefits of 2.5 x is simply an estimate of a smaller streaming pool and people just dont get it.
Goosen quote :
Note the 768 mb streaming pool for UE5 demo that was billions of polygons.....But that is more complex than mips, memory saving = how little streaming pool you can play with. XSX has a back up plan, Ps5 is so fast it does not need one.
At least we can have 3rd party games that push streaming next gen...as long as they dont run on ps4 / xb1...
Anyway, off to bed byes, good night chaps.
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yewles1
Member
ArcaneNLSC
Member
Yesterday I ate around 1 kg of meat, liver, and guts. Nothing could replace that
Oh I would never go vegan/vegetarian it was simply just to try it. Shit I just spent over $126 on lamb cuts and burger patties at Costco 2 days ago.
Wraith Phantom
Member
You know whats funny. There is Atom view UE4 plugin. And then all of sudden we get a UE5 demo doing exact features that Atom view plugin did & more. All coated as collaboration with SONY for "years". The whole thing stinks.Its just all 1 big Sony production.
That acquisition happened was few years ago behind the scenes. Would be interesting to see how much more advance Atom View got since 2017. Its obviously going to be in the PS5/VR2. But boy PS Studios are going to pull off spectacular things. We are In for a treat with this tech.
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Lethal01
Member
MS need to start showing, they blabbed about XVA on the demo.....
I mean, They publicly announced exactly when their next showcase will be and it's only days away. I think we can allow them to talk while we wait for a bit.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
You're not properly understanding what he is saying. The most important part is "intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required". Also before that quote he also says "We found a game typically accessed at best only one-half to one-third of their allocated pages over long windows of time," says Goossen. "So if a game never had to load pages that are ultimately never actually used, that means a 2-3x multiplier on the effective amount of physical memory, and a 2-3x multiplier on our effective IO performance."
So sure the PS5 has faster speeds but it still loads the whole mip instead of only what is needed. So the PS5 is losing 60% of their bandwidth to stuff that is not needed. That's a lot...
geordiemp
Member
You saying tiled resources,. partially resident textures and all that stuff is now proprietary to XSX.
Partially Resident Textures | RenderingPipeline
Go read about megatextures, this is old shit. We had this all last gen.
Sounds like we are rereading the same stuff from 8 years ago..
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Lethal01
Member
I'm just hype for Final Fantasy 7:RE
Here is a snippet of how the assets are made useable in the demo
Timestamped
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
They put dedicated hardware in the Xbox one X to track this. So now Goossens is lying and this doesn't free up 60% of the memory bandwidth? They created something that was completely unnecessary and already existed? And on top of that they chose to rebrand it and market it? Yeah Ok... If you want to go all nutty fanboy go ahead, but I'll take the word of a lead Xbox engineer over you.You saying tiled resources,. partially resident textures and all that stuff is now proprietary to XSX.
Partially Resident Textures | RenderingPipeline
renderingpipeline.com
Go read about megatextures, this is old shit. We had this all last gen.
Sounds like we are rereading the same stuff from 8 years ago..
geordiemp
Member
Goosen said the SFS hardware is a blended shader for mipmap, thats what it is.
Go read below. Partial loading of mipmaps was tiled resources / PRT, its already done in doom 4 etc and has been around since ps4 / xb1 .
From watchdogs
If you can find anything in a link where MS have developed new hardware on silicon to do the well proven virtual textures / PRT (it has lots of names as been around a long time) then we can talk more.
Its mostly a sales pitch from MS and they chuck everything into the pot, it takes time to correctly pick out what MS actually did out of the sales pitch and it does confuse.
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Honestly I'm not picking on you
Just wanna say 48 CU'S @ 2.2GHZ is not likely possible at all! They'll have to design for the theoretical maximum power it can draw and heat it will generate if all CU's get fully utilised (no matter how unlikely that is). The power supply will be bigger and cooling solution will likely be expensive and louder (if cool-able at all?), and can forget about Cerny's 'thermal equilibrium' optimisation
But after all that, yea its a good exercise to consider the what-if's
Edit: I forgot to mention, even with Sony's variable frequency tech (I believe) it still won't be possible to push that many CU's at that frequency
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
This gif only shows how unoptimized the demo is. You should always delete what can't be seen, this only shows that if optimized it can easily run at native 4K instead, maybe 60fps as well. What a waste of resources, more like a stress test.
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Lethal01
Member
Unless it's doing what it's selling itself on.. Only rendering what is seen.
Ofcourse I agree this demo is a stress test and the tech is unoptimizaed but if they are actually demonstrating that building this way has negligible cost then that's a great thing. it shows how much faster people will be able to work.
it's all wait and see. can't wait to play around with it myself.
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PaintTinJr
Gold Member
Well if that is the solution they are going for re: random access in zlib-esq Bcpack files - 64KB block decompressed per texel sample in a worst case - then the gains in texture residency and reduced compute shading of SFS aren't the multiplier benefit being stated.
The additional workload to enable random access will add latency in the computational cost of decompressing at such a coarse level for such fine granular data. Accessing each mipmap will also be equally costly and the effective gain in I/O from stacking variable and fix rate compression with virtualized access starts to look dubious IMHO.
The whole point of variable rate compressors used for gaming is to get excellent compression ratios (which RDO is focused on) and fast/lightweight processing decompression which the zlib derivatives like kraken, oodle, etc are doing.
In reality I don't see a typical usage for stacking SFS with random access streaming BCpack files from disk on XsX. Instead I see SFS used effectively with decompressed BCpack files resident in memory, or SFS used with random access streaming BCn files from disk. Which in both of those scenarios the multiplier is an either or not both stacking.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
You are right. 20 million polygons is more than good enough for 6K natively, they could push that down to 8.5 million for less GPU taxing native 4K. I think that what Horizon FW is doing. Zoom in very close and you will see aliasing that is not visible at native resolution:
But you zoom in here you can't see that because it has overwhelming polygons that gives it a more film-like, realistic look.
twerkitout
Member
What the Lead XBOX engineer leaves out is what he is using for comparison; is it a system not using SFS? Not using PRT/Tiled Resources? You are making assumptions on what he is comparing it against
JeloSWE
Member
That's not how it works. First off, if the mesh isn't visible because it's being obscured it's not taking up any rendering performance, secondly, all the hidden meshes you saw are still being used elsewhere in the cave so they must remain in the RAM pool. Thirdly, the most likely reason it ran at 1440p is because Lumen isn't yet fully optimized for 60fps or 4K. Lastly, the game being rendered at 1440p is being up sampled to 4K through temporal accumulation. If the camera is still the image would resolve to true 4K over a couple of frames. This is a very smart and highly cost effective approach which I think many games will continue to utilize instead of wasting render power on brute forcing true 4K in the next gen.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Oh wow! I'm so jealous of you! I missed my window! You're gonna get SO MUCH MONEY BACK!
3liteDragon
Member
Dee's out here talkin about that SX SSD hitting 12GB/s throughout 
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Dee's out here talkin about that SX SSD hitting 12GB/s throughout
He just craves getting Ls at this point
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Entroyp
Member
Dee's out here talkin about that SX SSD hitting 12GB/s throughout
This guy must be either a GAF member or lurks here.
someone here was talking about a "variable speed SSD" for the PS5
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Dee's out here talkin about that SX SSD hitting 12GB/s throughout
I don't think he's this dumb, I think him and the other FUD suspects are doing it in purpose. If he's that dumb and the others, then I really feel sorry for them, still doubt it.
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Sinthor
Gold Member
This is why everyone cannot be famous...
Dude is so high, it's not even funny really. More like.....sad.
pawel86ck
Banned
Sinthor
Gold Member
Just more 'fake news' to bring in hits? Yes, I suppose that's very likely. More and more seem to be doing the same these days. And I guess, if it's something you can always hide behind 'i made a mistake' or 'my sources were wrong/I misunderstood my sources' and it makes you money meanwhile, maybe it's worth it to them?
icy121
Member
I can assure you this dude has no idea what 'I/O' even means.
This is why everyone cannot be famous...
Sinthor
Gold Member
Well, like with the rest of the fakers it simply means "Ignorant Opportunist!"
Gamernyc78
Banned
yewles1
Member
.............this dude really just multiply 2.5x TWICE to stir his narrative? HOW IS THIS GUY 'NOT' A SENATOR???
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Dee's out here talkin about that SX SSD hitting 12GB/s throughout
Up Next: How to download more RAM
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Hawking Radiation
Member
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