Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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jimbojim said:
Phil Spencer is certainly proud to have such amount of stupid individuals ( among the others ) in the Xbox community.
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If you think De-Batch misunderstood what Jason Ronald has said then please enlighten us with your knowledge about SFS gains and clear any misunderstanding without calling people stupid (it was low effort post).

Here's Jason Ronald quote where 2.5x multiplier is mentioned. I'm posting screenshot because apparently some people dont believe me when I say I was only quoting Jason Ronald).

5ohTgzC.jpg


So enlighten us what 2.5x gains really means. if you think Ronald is misleading people then please prove it. Just dont use unverified (possibly fake) data from leaks just to prove your point like in your XSX vs PS5 performance calculation.
 
X-Fighter said:
Yeah but the Xbox One also supports PRT
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If you want more reading then it would be interesting looiking at the cache scrubbers and coherency stuff on PS, that also is related to the topic in a way if you read my post above about SFS costs. Both consoles have lots of tricks and we know so little so far. Maybe MS have a method for that as well, who knows, its discussed in that post above from DX12 and SFS.

Either way, the new nanite if it takes off and heavily adopted negates allot of tech on both consoles, all that mesh shader and Geometry engine culling, VRS, SFS and Lods, all of it is done better and much higher performance by Nanite - 1440p insane polygone counts and only 4.25 ms so easy higher than 60 FPS its nuts, they could probably do native 4K with Nanite without Lumen....Fun times.

Oh jeesh, the 2.5 x posts are going silly already, not from you, let you deal with them lol. Got work to do,
 
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Finally just one more week to see what MS has to offer Gamewise.
I just hope they finally show off everything they got.
This back and forth between MS and Sonys Next-Gen Stuff bit by bit is getting exhausting.
 
No-one is multiplying the I/O Rate. They are using the existing bandwidth more efficiently. That's it. You don't suddenly multiply the haulage capacity of a truck because some people have decided to cram more into shipping crates, it's still 10 tons.

Remember, if you use textures more efficiently, you need to read more of them to saturate the link, that's it! That doesn't actually mean you WILL saturate the link, it just gives you more options.

It's still the same bandwidth.

This is middle school level logic here.
 
pawel86ck said:
If you think De-Batch misunderstood what Jason Ronald has said then please enlighten us with your knowledge about SFS gains and clear any misunderstanding without calling people stupid (it was low effort post).

Here's Jason Ronald quote where 2.5x multiplier is mentioned. I'm posting screenshot because apparently some people dont believe me when I say I was only quoting Jason Ronald).

5ohTgzC.jpg


So enlighten us what 2.5x gains really means. if you think Ronald is misleading people then please prove it. Just dont use unverified (possibly fake) data from leaks just to prove your point like in your XSX vs PS5 performance calculation.
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Jason Ronald ISN'T Xbox system architect, that's Andrew Goossen. And he CLEARLY stated that theoretical max. 6 GB/s for decompression for Xbox SSD.

Unverified data. LOL Techpowerup used github leak for XSX. Their data are unverified too, isn't it? 64 x 1.825 is 116. Accept that XSX has a slower GPU than PS5s.
Except pixel fill-rate, all other Techpowerup's numbers are exactly like mine in that post.
 
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Bonsaibäumchen said:
Finally just one more week to see what MS has to offer Gamewise.
I just hope they finally show off everything they got.
This back and forth between MS and Sonys Next-Gen Stuff bit by bit is getting exhausting.
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Yeah I just want them to announce prices and launch dates now. I want to preorder them while I have the cash, which is right now, before I spend it all on wine and Uber Eats.
 
jimbojim said:
Jason Ronald ISN'T Xbox system architect, that's Andrew Goossen. And he CLEARLY stated that theoretical max. 6 GB/s for decompression for Xbox SSD.
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They are not increasing SSD raw numbers physically (just use it more efficiently), so their decompression chip still has to decompress the same amount of data (6GB/s). There will be however much more textures transfered in the same 6GB data thanks to SFS savings. It's not like MS is changing physics with software (SFS), just use clever technologies to use available 2.4GB/s raw speed more efficiently.
 
pawel86ck said:
People here question everything what MS engineers say, yet believe Cerny no matter what. SFS is not a new technology according to some, but AMD smartshift is. No one knows how far PS5 GPU will downclock, but people believe it will stay above 10TF no matter what. Some people believe Cerny so much, they even think higher clock 2.2GHz on PS5 will not only close 2TF gap, but also destroy XSX by a large margin.
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Hyperboles on both sides (on twitter/youtube) Reason why Cerny is easier to believed is that the guy knows what he's talking about. Take a look at his wikipedia lol. The guy has a proven track record. Hes not just a suit trying to sell us a machine.

And I do read what engineers have to say and just assume what they say is true. I just think adding multipliers to things is a tad vague though...

Im also a bit reserved on what Msfts marketing says, because I generally dont like the Loud marketing Msft has. But to each his/her own.

Hermen Hulst: "We'll let the games do the talking"
 
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GRIEVEZ said:
Hyperboles on both sides (on twitter/youtube) Reason why Cerny is easier to believed is that the guy knows what he's talking about. Take a look at his wikipedia lol. The guy has a proven track record. Hes not just a suit trying to sell us a machine.

And I do read what engineers have to say and just assume what they say is true. I just think adding multipliers to things is a tad vague though...

Im also a bit reserved on what Msfts marketing says, because I generally dont like the Loud marketing Msft has. But to each his/her own.

Hermen Hulst: "We'll let the games do the talking"
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Also is easier to believe in a specific number/figure rather than a multiplier that can be easily misinterpreted.
 
kyliethicc said:
I think the reason the SSD for Xbox Series X is slower than the PS5 SSD is because it was made with cost in mind for Lockhart.
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I never thought of that and it makes sense because you don't want two SKU with vastly different drive speeds. But even if the drive was faster I don't think it would have been on par with Sonys I/O due to things like the I/O complex on the APU for example.

I honestly just believe that they chose more Teraflops over a faster I/O because Microsoft wanted to have the most powerful console. Sony did the opposite because they believe that having that crazy I/O can change game design. Just two different approaches to next gen in my opinion.
 
geordiemp said:
The 2.5 claim was compared against an Xobox one, hence it is comparing against the old IO system streaming and slow fetching so thats why I have a beef with it, as MS know too well posters will be exagerating and misrepresenting reality it all over forums. Its a bit naughty is my opinion
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It's so obvious what they are doing. It's July and they are reframing something we already knew about, releasing a trailer even. How insane is this? How desperate are they because it leads me to believe their lack of composure stems from what they are reading in the tea leaves. They aren't winning the narrative.
 
jimbojim said:
Unverified data. LOL Techpowerup used github leak for XSX. Their data are unverified too, isn't it? 64 x 1.825 is 116. Accept that XSX has a slower GPU than PS5s.
Except pixel fill-rate, all other Techpowerup's numbers are exactly like mine in that post.
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As I can see you have edited your post, so now I have to adress it again.

Yes, leaks are unverified until MS and Sony will reveal everytning and we are still waiting for full breakdown. These leaks suggest unrealistic data (not just the amount of ROPs is not realistic on XSX side, but also there's no VRS and HW RT on PS5 side). I really doubt RDNA2 56CUs GPU will have the same amount of ROPs as 36CUs GPU, when RDNA1 GPUs shows ROPs scaling with higher amount of CUs. RX5700 has 36 CUs and 64 ROPs, while RX5500 has 22CUs and 32 ROPs. Cant you see54 CUs GPU will certainly have more than 64 ROPs? Your calculation is so wrong it even shows similar filrate on RX5700 and XSX GPU has both CUs and clock advantage.
 
Thirty7ven said:
It's so obvious what they are doing. It's July and they are reframing something we already knew about, releasing a trailer even. How insane is this? How desperate are they because it leads me to believe their lack of composure stems from what they are reading in the tea leaves. They aren't winning the narrative.
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Now marketing is desperate? Yeah ok, it's not like we see these things in every piece of technology. Do you know how many marketing videos Apple has for each aspect of the iPhone? Not sure if you've noticed this, but the marketing strategy of Microsoft is to release a bit of information each couple of weeks to keep being on the top of everyone's mind. Sometimes these things are rehashed with a bit more information, but that has been their strategy for the past 9 months. Nothing insane about it.
 
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SSfox said:
I found it interesting how MS barely mentioned SSD and was all about and screaming all days about Teraflops since their console reveal, and since post Cerny presentation they started talking all out about SSD, bottlenecks, data access and cie, hum..

A coincidence maybe, or maybe not so much..

7784263923_peter-falk-dans-columbo.PNG
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Except that is not true at all.
The technical deep dive on the Series X including the talking points about their SSD happend on March 16th.
One week before the Road to Ps5 event.
 
X-Fighter said:
Now marketing is desperate? Yeah ok, it's not like we see these things in every piece of technology. Do you know how many marketing videos Apple has for each aspect of the iPhone? Not sure if you've noticed this, but the marketing strategy of Microsoft is to release a bit of information each couple of weeks to keep being on the top of everyone's mind. Sometimes these things are rehashed with a bit more information, but that has been their strategy for the past 9 months. Nothing insane about it.
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What I've noticed is that they have announced everything and then started re-announcing in slightly different terms what they had already announced. Their strategy has been to repeat themselves for the past months. You know why you repeat yourself right?
 
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That 2.5x multiplier works the other way around - they'll use 2.5x less data, not magically increase the bandwidth, which is obviously (?) impossible. So for for instance instead of 500MB @2.4GB/s they'll stream 200MB @2.4GB/s.
 
ZywyPL said:
That 2.5x multiplier works the other way around - they'll use 2.5x less data, not magically increase the bandwidth, which is obviously (?) impossible. So for for instance instead of 500MB @2.4GB/s they'll stream 200MB @2.4GB/s.
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Yes, because you can go faster then what's possible with the hardware limitations.

so they can do more with less.. I personally don't care how they do it as long as games can look as good as Hellblade 2 and play great .

if there are tiny leprechauns in it or what ever does the magic on the screen I am fine with it.
 
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SSfox said:
I found it interesting how MS barely mentioned SSD and was all about and screaming all days about Teraflops since their console reveal, and since post Cerny presentation they started talking all out about SSD, bottlenecks, data access and cie, hum..

A coincidence maybe, or maybe not so much..
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I think your recollection may be a bit clouded.

After the Series X reveal there was indeed a lot of teraflop chat, but much of it was by Sony fans anticipating that the PS5 would be 13 teraflops plus. It was only after the PS5 reveal that Sony fans pivoted to SSD talk, suddenly certain that SSD speed was pretty much the only metric that counts.

Since then sometimes it seems as if the PS5 is the only next-gen console with an SSD. Apparently the Series X is sporting some kind of 3.5" floppy arrangement.
 
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pawel86ck said:
As I can see you have edited your post, so now I have to adress it again.

Yes, leaks are unverified until MS and Sony will reveal everytning and we are still waiting for full breakdown. These leaks suggest unrealistic data (not just the amount of ROPs is not realistic on XSX side, but also there's no VRS and HW RT on PS5 side). I really doubt RDNA2 56CUs GPU will have the same amount of ROPs as 36CUs GPU, when RDNA1 GPUs shows ROPs scaling with higher amount of CUs. RX5700 has 36 CUs and 64 ROPs, while RX5500 has 22CUs and 32 ROPs. Cant you see54 CUs GPU will certainly have more than 64 ROPs? Your calculation is so wrong it even shows similar filrate on RX5700 and XSX GPU has both CUs and clock advantage.
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It was stated bunch of.times before that github leak was incomplete for PS5 and wrong in some things for PS5 ( wrong about TF count, clock freq., GPU architecture ( RDNA 1 ), no RT and half wrong about RAM speed ) but that wasn't the case for XSX. Github leak for XSX was correct. Doesn't mean if leak was wrong for PS5, same can be applied to XSX. Calculations aren't wrong. XSX GPU is slower also it has pixel fill-rate lower and other things, except ray tracing.
 
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longdi said:
What? How can your PS5 pro be easier to design than MS just unlocking Series X disabled parts??

This, we are talking about a quick refresh Series X+. Probably sold at the same/lower price, probably replaces Series X entirely. Time to market is quicker to attract those who are looking out for new a purchase.
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What disabled parts? The series X has 4 disabled CUs, the PS5 has 4 disabled CUs. It's pretty possible the PS5 is using a stackable design, so they can, as the name implies, stack 2 of these and have a 72 CU machine if they want to.
 
Snowdonhoffen said:
Damn, dude. This is getting ridiculous
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None of the idiots on there have any credibility, them talking shit is par for the course. The trouble is actually go to/reliable sites like IGN lapping and spreading the messaging as designated by the bosses. I mean look at this. Even some of the ardent fanboys will roll their eyes but it's all okay to them because Phil said so.

 
Redlight said:
I think your recollection may be a bit clouded.

After the Series X reveal there was indeed a lot of teraflop chat, but much of it was by Sony fans anticipating that the PS5 would be 13 teraflops plus. It was only after the PS5 reveal that Sony fans pivoted to SSD talk, suddenly certain that SSD speed was pretty much the only metric that counts.

Since then sometimes it seems as if the PS5 is the only next-gen console with an SSD. Apparently the Series X is sporting some kind of 3.5" floppy arrangement.
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You are wrong. Yes before the single unit of measurement that seemed to define the hardware were teraflops, thats all people talked about really. Think it was legacy from this current generation, as the differences between consoles were very straightforward.

But you see it weren't Sony fans pivoting, it was the whole industry. PlayStation team put their chips on SSD/IO and apparently they were right to do so.
 
Thirty7ven said:
You are wrong. Yes before the single unit of measurement that seemed to define the hardware were teraflops, thats all people talked about really. Think it was legacy from this current generation, as the differences between consoles were very straightforward.

But you see it weren't Sony fans pivoting, it was the whole industry. PlayStation team put their chips on SSD/IO and apparently they were right to do so.
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That's still not proved, first we need to see both machines in action to call it a day. And preferably deep analyses of both hardware and software showcases. On paper they both look great.
 
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Thirty7ven said:
What I've noticed is that they have announced everything and then started re-announcing in slightly different terms what they had already announced. Their strategy has been to repeat themselves for the past months. You know why you repeat yourself right?
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I wouldn't call it repeating yourself. The first few months is for the people that are passionate and follow it like we do. Which is why they released had the talks with DF, and Xbox Wire articles about specifics. But now in July when the casual gamers are getting excited about next-gen consoles that's when you drop the marketing video's and stuff. Sure this might be same materials, but we are not the audience.
 
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thurnishaleygw said:
So, the latest word on the twitterverse is that the Series X is 25TF and 48GB/s now? I wonder where we'll end up by the time of release...

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While the ps5 will be 5TFs the second the screen shows graphics, its ssd is shit, and the console cannot run more than 3 minutes without melting due to overheating and poor design.
 
longdi said:
I been thinking, MS can do a refresh Series X+ in 2 years down.

Just unlock all ram and cu, clock them higher. And boom 14TF+, 20GB ram at 640gbs, 16threads at 4Ghz, faster SSD.

Really smart desgin. :messenger_peace:
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They should just add a Time flux capacitor as well, i mean why the hell not.
 
Thirty7ven said:
You are wrong. Yes before the single unit of measurement that seemed to define the hardware were teraflops, thats all people talked about really. Think it was legacy from this current generation, as the differences between consoles were very straightforward.

But you see it weren't Sony fans pivoting, it was the whole industry. PlayStation team put their chips on SSD/IO and apparently they were right to do so.
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Well, I'm not wrong, the pivoting on this site would've required ballet shoes. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

As for SSD/IO, apparently the Series X is using punch cards.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
You may say so, but still if you're close enough you'll be getting it within your 20 million polygons per frame budget of the PS5. Not to mention making the demo much more bigger than it needs, but probably it's the idea of it: A stress test.
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Actually Epic said it's because they want something that will allow players to mess around and still experience that super high visual fidelity, every time, everywhere, as oppose to what we are seeing now where the main path looks superb but just as you walk away 3m everything looks like straight from las generation. They basically want to remove the highest highs vs lowest lows. But again, the question remains how much space that entire demo took.
 
Redlight said:
As for SSD/IO, apparently the Series X is using punch cards.
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Nobody is saying the XSX doesn't have a high performant solution, it absolutely has. But the differences are pretty clear, that's all.

sinnergy said:
That's still not proved, first we need to see both machines in action to call it a day. And preferably deep analyses of both hardware and software showcases. On paper they both look great.
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You're right, it's too early to say. In terms of pre-release narrative though? Xbox PR isn't releasing a XVA trailer in July for no reason.

X-Fighter said:
I wouldn't call it repeating yourself. The first few months is for the people that are passionate and follow it like we do. Which is why they released had the talks with DF, and Xbox Wire articles about specifics. But now in July when the casual gamers are getting excited about next-gen consoles that's when you drop the marketing video's and stuff. Sure this might be same materials, but we are not the audience.
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We are absolutely the audience for the XVA trailer come on man. You think a casual is going be like "Oh my god, SFS is a 2.5 multiplier on SSD and Memory bandwidth!", cracking myself laughing at that notion.
 
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