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[HoofHearted]

Because even when the game is completed, there's still the polish time that may take some times too, and some devs rather start communicating about their games once they feel it advance enough or even completed, which actually i don't think it's a bad idea at all, quite the opposite. This apply specially for big huge scale games.

And i mean look at Cyberpunk 2077, It's a finished game when it comes to content, but when it comes to polish that's another story, it's out already, but in a sens it's still need like 6 months to a year at least to be called a finished completed game. Also Elden Ring a Japanese game and Japanese usually are more serious into polishing their games compare to western devs. TWW3, Skyrim, remember how those games were buggy retard too at launch, while games like Sekiro, Nier Automata, Dark Souls 3,FF15 and other were working just normally fine, with minors bugs (that got fix super fast too) and not some crazy buggy stuffs like TW3, Skyrim, Fallout or recently Cyberpunk.

I’ve been in the software development industry for 30+ years now - and while not specifically in game development - there’s a common basic question asked:

When is done, done?

At best - CP2077 is “mostly” dev complete, in that the basic mechanics of the game are there, etc. - it still has a ways to go before it’s dev complete and it’s certainly far from being finished (full QA testing, etc) and truly done.

If you’re playing the game - you’ve essentially paid for the opportunity to test a pre-release Alpha version of the game.

 

[jroc74]

And I can claim also that's not a real problem, just need to learn how to access and use the memory in an efficient way. That's simply require more work, but that's not a real bottleneck. You'll see.

Could be a similar situation like the PS3. In the end first party games showed the better results, while 3rd party mostly looked and ran better on the 360. That didn't really changed until the gen almost ended, and took a massive game to give the PS3 the edge: GTA V.

 

[oldergamer]

I’ve been in the software development industry for 30+ years now - and while not specifically in game development - there’s a common basic question asked:

When is done, done?

At best - CP2077 is “mostly” dev complete, in that the basic mechanics of the game are there, etc. - it still has a ways to go before it’s dev complete and it’s certainly far from being finished (full QA testing, etc) and truly done.

If you’re playing the game - you’ve essentially paid for the opportunity to test a pre-release Alpha version of the game.

This is somewhat on the platform holders to block games that are not ready. To be frank, I saw nothing but a few visual issues in the first 30 hours I played on Cyberpunk, however I rarely used cars to travel around. I liked to get around on foot to see things up close. I was also playing on Xbox S/X and it notably had less issues compared to PS4. I didn't run across any missions that couldn't be completed, or any crashes within the first act.

To me, and I've played a lot of unfinished games over the years. This clearly wasn't that bad. PS4 or the original Xbone, yeah i could see people complaining about frame rate, and PS4 crashed way too much for release, but on Xbox, there is no way i would call this on pre-release alpha. This is still better then the days when 3dfx was the go to 3d accelerator card on PC, and if you had nvidia cards, games crashed right out of the box ( Huge fuck you to Activision on star trek, vampire the masquerade, and a few other games that you would install, and they literally did not run )
Anyway, that was PC gaming, but back in those days it was much tougher to get through console certification.

Basically I would have made the game available for Xbox series X & one X first, then worked on Xbone & PS4 more.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I found this funny.

Microsoft acquires Sony with all its divisions, including PlayStation

www.en24.news

When it seemed that 2020 was drawing to a close, we encountered a new turn of events. Microsoft has once again pulled the portfolio to close the purchase of the year. This time, the American giant has acquired Sony for a figure close to 130 billion dollars. Apparently, the main promoter of the operation was Phil Spencer to reinforce the Xbox catalog.

Only found out about it because some other site was treating it as news.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

This is somewhat on the platform holders to block games that are not ready. To be frank, I saw nothing but a few visual issues in the first 30 hours I played on Cyberpunk, however I rarely used cars to travel around. I liked to get around on foot to see things up close. I was also playing on Xbox S/X and it notably had less issues compared to PS4. I didn't run across any missions that couldn't be completed, or any crashes within the first act.

To me, and I've played a lot of unfinished games over the years. This clearly wasn't that bad. PS4 or the original Xbone, yeah i could see people complaining about frame rate, and PS4 crashed way too much for release, but on Xbox, there is no way i would call this on pre-release alpha. This is still better then the days when 3dfx was the go to 3d accelerator card on PC, and if you had nvidia cards, games crashed right out of the box ( Huge fuck you to Activision on star trek, vampire the masquerade, and a few other games that you would install, and they literally did not run )
Anyway, that was PC gaming, but back in those days it was much tougher to get through console certification.

Basically I would have made the game available for Xbox series X & one X first, then worked on Xbone & PS4 more.

Unfortunately there is little to no quality control from platform holders, what they look at are mostly formalities or at the very least things like the correct disposition of the hud (if it's not cut or stuff like that) but on performance/bug sides they are not strict at all. If you could make the game crash consistently with one exact action, like if I take the pistol the game crash, then they may ask to correct it. But if the game just crash randomly, even if often, it's not a priority. Also, it may come down to prior investigations: if they see that the game is in a very bad state one month before lunch, they talk about it with the devs and if they take the responsibility to correct it before D1, then the deal it's done and it's your problem how the game is delivered.
Again, it's a pretty "open" system which clearly do not guarantee much.

 

[HoofHearted]

This is somewhat on the platform holders to block games that are not ready. To be frank, I saw nothing but a few visual issues in the first 30 hours I played on Cyberpunk, however I rarely used cars to travel around. I liked to get around on foot to see things up close. I was also playing on Xbox S/X and it notably had less issues compared to PS4. I didn't run across any missions that couldn't be completed, or any crashes within the first act.

To me, and I've played a lot of unfinished games over the years. This clearly wasn't that bad. PS4 or the original Xbone, yeah i could see people complaining about frame rate, and PS4 crashed way too much for release, but on Xbox, there is no way i would call this on pre-release alpha. This is still better then the days when 3dfx was the go to 3d accelerator card on PC, and if you had nvidia cards, games crashed right out of the box ( Huge fuck you to Activision on star trek, vampire the masquerade, and a few other games that you would install, and they literally did not run )
Anyway, that was PC gaming, but back in those days it was much tougher to get through console certification.

Basically I would have made the game available for Xbox series X & one X first, then worked on Xbone & PS4 more.

Agreed - I’ve played my share of unfinished games as well over the years. it was clear from the launch that they just didn’t have the time and bandwidth to fully test and validate all Targeted platforms for several reasons (including a pandemic).

I absolutely agree that there should’ve been a hold/pushback by both Sony and MS respectively for OG consoles at a minimum.

I think that’s why we see such varying reports on reviews and response to the state of this game. IMHO - minimum target should’ve been X1X/PS4P (and next gen obviously).

Overall - I think CP2077 will continue to struggle and perform at a basic level on OG XO/PS4. There will be a point of no return where it just doesn’t make sense to keep patching and mitigating defects on those particular platforms.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Agreed - I’ve played my share of unfinished games as well over the years. it was clear from the launch that they just didn’t have the time and bandwidth to fully test and validate all Targeted platforms for several reasons (including a pandemic).

I absolutely agree that there should’ve been a hold/pushback by both Sony and MS respectively for OG consoles at a minimum.

I think that’s why we see such varying reports on reviews and response to the state of this game. IMHO - minimum target should’ve been X1X/PS4P (and next gen obviously).

Overall - I think CP2077 will continue to struggle and perform at a basic level on OG XO/PS4. There will be a point of no return where it just doesn’t make sense to keep patching and mitigating defects on those particular platforms.

I don't even think Sony and MS permits to take Pro and X as bottom target, they for sure do not allow games to be made only for those consoles and not for the OG ones.

 

[HoofHearted]

I don't even think Sony and MS permits to take Pro and X as bottom target, they for sure do not allow games to be made only for those consoles and not for the OG ones.

Now that you note that - certainly possible - though X1X/X1S is officially canceled since July IIRC?

 

[TheRedRiders]

Yeah, it probably will take a couple of years. I found it very interesting to see that devs from Naughty Dog contributed to the patents because if i remember correctly parts of Naughty Dog were also involved in the creation of the ICE team.

It might be an indicator they pretty much have a lot of stuff figured out and are able to support dev teams inside and outside of Sony Studios to be able to start take advantage of the GE earlier than anticipated.

According to RGT, the creation of the the Geometry Engine was party due to first party developers (mainly from Santa Monica and Naughty Dog is my guess) complaining to Mark Cerny that they didn't have enough control over the graphics pipeline and little control over things like culling, which resulted in the the GPU processing a lot of unnecessary workloads, this apparently was also the cause of the PS4 and Pro running very hot and loud.

 

[MasterCornholio]

According to RGT, the creation of the the Geometry Engine was party due to first party developers (mainly from Santa Monica and Naughty Dog is my guess) complaining to Mark Cerny that they didn't have enough control over the graphics pipeline and little control over things like culling, which resulted in the the GPU processing a lot of unnecessary workloads, this apparently was also the cause of the PS4 and Pro running very hot and loud.

If I understood it correctly they can do something similar to VRS with the GE. Except they would cull the geometry alot earlier in the pipeline than VRS does.

 

[TheRedRiders]

If I understood it correctly they can do something similar to VRS with the GE. Except they would cull the geometry alot earlier in the pipeline than VRS does.

This is what the leaks have been saying and Matt Hargett (ex-Playstation engineer) pretty much gave it away in his tweet.

Supposedly GE with VRS is much more accurate as well, we haven't really seen VRS in action on the PS5 but then again if the VRS is as good as the leaks claim it would be much more difficult to spot hehe

But my guess is the API's for the GE are still being developed and it's going a year or two from launch to see it in full fledged action, but likely for more advanced features like the Primitive Shaders.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

 

[kyliethicc]

Inevitable chasing lol. Xbox copied Sony over last 2 gens by eventually adding the headset jack, Bluetooth, (optional) rechargable batteries and a USB port. Now they're just getting around to copying the share button. Xbox will add haptics and resistant triggers to their controller over the generation, maybe they'll even finally add a gyro and or a touchpad.

 

[kyliethicc]

Even if games used less than 10GB, the CPU and accessories still have to get at it's memory in-between using the reduced data lanes access. Which still is a bandwidth hindrance to the 10GB GPU memory access

Microsoft asked AMD to design them a high performance system with specs they may have outlined. Then MS crippled it by reducing the memory from 20GB (which the memory bus is built for) to 16GB. This is the only logical explanation for the royal cock-up of the memory bus architecture

It could be that they will have the full 20GB in its server configuration but had cut corners in the console config to save money, inadvertently hampering it's performance without fully researching the consequences ... but hey the specs looked good on paper and that's all that mattered !

They definitely use the full 20 GB of RAM over the 320 bit bus in xcloud servers because they want to run 4 xbox one games at once on a single SoC, and xbox one games use 5 GB of RAM each. That's why it has the 320 bit bus, for 20 GB RAM.

 

[vpance]

This is what the leaks have been saying and Matt Hargett (ex-Playstation engineer) pretty much gave it away in his tweet.

Supposedly GE with VRS is much more accurate as well, we haven't really seen VRS in action on the PS5 but then again if the VRS is as good as the leaks claim it would be much more difficult to spot hehe

But my guess is the API's for the GE are still being developed and it's going a year or two from launch to see it in full fledged action, but likely for more advanced features like the Primitive Shaders.

We may have already seen it in action with UE5. I think MLID has said that was the case.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They definitely use the full 20 GB of RAM over the 320 bit bus in xcloud servers because they want to run 4 xbox one games at once on a single SoC, and xbox one games use 5 GB of RAM each. That's why it has the 320 bit bus, for 20 GB RAM.

It's what I always thought. Basically they would have more ram with the APU in their servers. It's actually kind of smart from a cost point of view.

 

[TheRedRiders]

We may have already seen it in action with UE5. I think MLID has said that was the case.

I have not come across this before and no one has mentioned it to my knowledge, I'll look into it.

 

[kyliethicc]

It's what I always thought. Basically they would have more ram with the APU in their servers. It's actually kind of smart from a cost point of view.

Yup, and Phil said the chip was co-designed by their xcloud design team. It was built to serve 2 roles, console and server.

They probably just didn't want to spend the extra money to give their console 20 GB of RAM (and unified bandwidth.)

 

[Imtjnotu]

This is somewhat on the platform holders to block games that are not ready. To be frank, I saw nothing but a few visual issues in the first 30 hours I played on Cyberpunk, however I rarely used cars to travel around. I liked to get around on foot to see things up close. I was also playing on Xbox S/X and it notably had less issues compared to PS4. I didn't run across any missions that couldn't be completed, or any crashes within the first act.

To me, and I've played a lot of unfinished games over the years. This clearly wasn't that bad. PS4 or the original Xbone, yeah i could see people complaining about frame rate, and PS4 crashed way too much for release, but on Xbox, there is no way i would call this on pre-release alpha. This is still better then the days when 3dfx was the go to 3d accelerator card on PC, and if you had nvidia cards, games crashed right out of the box ( Huge fuck you to Activision on star trek, vampire the masquerade, and a few other games that you would install, and they literally did not run )
Anyway, that was PC gaming, but back in those days it was much tougher to get through console certification.

Basically I would have made the game available for Xbox series X & one X first, then worked on Xbone & PS4 more.

how would you have made a game designed for the Xbox one/ one s/ one X only available on the on the Series S/X?

what youre basically saying is they should have made this game next gen only for a year and then create ps4 and xbox one versions

 

[vpance]

I have not come across this before and no one has mentioned it to my knowledge, I'll look into it.

In any case it's the perfect candidate for using the GE. It's almost a certainty that UE5 will support it to accelerate Nanite if not already there.

Games heavily using GE should feature a lot of the same things as that demo. As in "Unlimited" detail and geometry, no matter how close you get to models. Lower spec platforms will fall back to traditional LOD systems.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yup, and Phil said the chip was co-designed by their xcloud design team. It was built to serve 2 roles, console and server.

They probably just didn't want to spend the extra money to give their console 20 GB of RAM (and unified bandwidth.)

Definitely.

20GBs would have been ideal but then they couldn't target a 499$ price point with the system. I know the have the XSS but they can't afford to be more expensive than Sonys premium system.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

SuperRT - Realtime Raytracing on The SNES



This is so freaking cool!

 

[FranXico]

I found this funny.

Microsoft acquires Sony with all its divisions, including PlayStation

www.en24.news

Only found out about it because some other site was treating it as news.

Dia de los inocentes?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Dia de los inocentes?

Seguramente es eso.

But it's funny that some places were saying it was actual news.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Dia de los inocentes?

Spanish April's Fool?

 

[YoodlePro]

So this thread still lives huh?

 

[chilichote]

So this thread still lives huh?

We are waiting for the PS5 die-shot^^

 

[Nowcry]

Spanish April's Fool?

December 28 is "Spanish April fool day".

So if that was it.

 

[LiquidRex]

Can’t wait to see some actual gameplay.

New Elden Ring trailer could be coming in January

FromSoftware could finally share more details about their highly-anticipated title Elden Ring in January 2021. The artists who worked on the E3 trailer has a profile with Elden Ring concept art that is unlocking in January on his website.

www.altchar.com

E3 announcement trailer and concept art embargo lifts in January apparently

 

[THEAP99]

I fully expect horizon forbidden west to go to pc quick. I mean this is getting ridiculous. A PlayStation studio giving away stuff to pc gamers? Lol?

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

I fully expect horizon forbidden west to go to pc quick. I mean this is getting ridiculous. A PlayStation studio giving away stuff to pc gamers? Lol?

This isn’t about the studio itself but the new community manager. They’ve been doing these giveaways and advertising the comics and being more present with the community on Twitter and Reddit. There’s nothing to see here. Guerrilla is much more active on social media than a lot of other Sony studios.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I fully expect horizon forbidden west to go to pc quick. I mean this is getting ridiculous. A PlayStation studio giving away stuff to pc gamers? Lol?

I mean technically you can use mouse and keyboard on PS5 as well lolol

 

[THEAP99]

This isn’t about the studio itself but the new community manager. They’ve been doing these giveaways and advertising the comics and being more present with the community on Twitter and Reddit. There’s nothing to see here. Guerrilla is much more active on social media than a lot of other Sony studios.

I still think Insomiac takes the cake for most active playstation studio. Had I'd give them studio of the year in terms of that. I mean they listened so quick and so fast in regards to ray tracing options for Spider-man ps5 games.. even the remaster save transfer which didn't need to happen at all since it's a remaster.

Meanwhile Guerilla, a technically component studio has not unlocked 60fps on horizon for ps5 but did indeed release a pc port this year. This rubs me the wrong way.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I wish devs actually used M/K support consistently on consoles.

 

[Tmack]

Just a few hours left and no PS5 die shot in 2020.

See ya next year.

 

[Red_Driver85]

I wish devs actually used M/K support consistently on consoles.

 

[Grinchy]

I wish devs actually used M/K support consistently on consoles.

I always want it, but then when it's in, I never plug my M/K into the console anyway.

I need a dedicated wireless set for console or something. Also something like this so I can use it on the couch

 

[IntentionalPun]

Just for single player stuff.

 

[oldergamer]

Inevitable chasing lol. Xbox copied Sony over last 2 gens by eventually adding the headset jack, Bluetooth, (optional) rechargable batteries and a USB port. Now they're just getting around to copying the share button. Xbox will add haptics and resistant triggers to their controller over the generation, maybe they'll even finally add a gyro and or a touchpad.

I don't think MS could be listed as copying when they started work on it long before PS5 was out. The dates don't line up for it to be a copy. Was Sony copying Microsoft with rumble? Or achievements? lets be realistic.

Also the share button replaces how you used to access the share functions. again, not what I'd call a copy.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I don't think MS could be listed as copying when they started work on it long before PS5 was out. The dates don't line up for it to be a copy. Was Sony copying Microsoft with rumble? Or achievements? lets be realistic.

Also the share button replaces how you used to access the share functions. again, not what I'd call a copy.

Sony used haptic and not rumble this gen.

So Sony technically copied Nintendo with haptics.

Same way Sony copied Nintendo with rumble on PS1

 

[Mr Moose]

I don't think MS could be listed as copying when they started work on it long before PS5 was out. The dates don't line up for it to be a copy. Was Sony copying Microsoft with rumble? Or achievements? lets be realistic.

Also the share button replaces how you used to access the share functions. again, not what I'd call a copy.

Rumble? Like on the PSOne controllers? Yeah they stole them off Microsoft's Xbox way back in 1997 before Xbox was even a thing.

 

[saintjules]

 

[oldergamer]

Rumble? Like on the PSOne controllers? Yeah they stole them off Microsoft's Xbox way back in 1997 before Xbox was even a thing.

since when did PSone have rumble? Oh it seems it wasn't a thing in america

Sony pulled rumble from PSOne controllers?

After the CliffyB coincidence, we thought to give you another look at a retro article with modern application. From the very first issue of PSM Magazine from September 1997 (found as a PDF on Retro Gaming -- click on the image to the right), a Kotaku reader pointed out an article on page 16...

www.engadget.com

 

[Imtjnotu]

since when did PSone have rumble? Oh it seems it wasn't a thing in america

Sony pulled rumble from PSOne controllers?

After the CliffyB coincidence, we thought to give you another look at a retro article with modern application. From the very first issue of PSM Magazine from September 1997 (found as a PDF on Retro Gaming -- click on the image to the right), a Kotaku reader pointed out an article on page 16...

www.engadget.com

There is a difference between PS1 and PSOne......

 

[Tmack]

TBH I would bet YES, this should be fine.

Sony design philosofy on the PS5 seems to be a foolproof design. Those much bigger than necessary plates makes virtually impossible to confine the console enough to have ventilation issues.

 

[LiquidRex]

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't get it.

 

[Sinthor]

I know some might say 'no' and I agree that IDEALLY, you should leave some more space for circulation. That being said, I bet this amount of space will be just fine. My PS5 has been running almost all day a lot this holiday season. When not gaming, using it for Netflix, Amazon, Apple. Not a lot of heat coming off of the unit even by the end of the day. Only noise I can hear occasionally is from the BD drive when a disk is spinning. It's fantastic. So again, if you can set it up with more space, I'd recommend doing that. But if not, I wouldn't sweat it. I think people are just being overly freaked out because the console is larger than they may have expected so they're thinking there will be a ton of heat and heat issues. I think the console is larger to KEEP it cooler and that there won't be heating problems. Time will tell!

 

[Garani]

I know some might say 'no' and I agree that IDEALLY, you should leave some more space for circulation. That being said, I bet this amount of space will be just fine. My PS5 has been running almost all day a lot this holiday season. When not gaming, using it for Netflix, Amazon, Apple. Not a lot of heat coming off of the unit even by the end of the day. Only noise I can hear occasionally is from the BD drive when a disk is spinning. It's fantastic. So again, if you can set it up with more space, I'd recommend doing that. But if not, I wouldn't sweat it. I think people are just being overly freaked out because the console is larger than they may have expected so they're thinking there will be a ton of heat and heat issues. I think the console is larger to KEEP it cooler and that there won't be heating problems. Time will tell!

I have mine in a similar location, but there is more space and ample space in the back to vent out. My kids are uning it for like 6 hours per day during these holidays, and I have to say that is always cool and wisper quite.

As long as you can ventout the heat from the back, the front has ample space to suck clean air in.

 

[Tmack]

I know some might say 'no' and I agree that IDEALLY, you should leave some more space for circulation. That being said, I bet this amount of space will be just fine. My PS5 has been running almost all day a lot this holiday season. When not gaming, using it for Netflix, Amazon, Apple. Not a lot of heat coming off of the unit even by the end of the day. Only noise I can hear occasionally is from the BD drive when a disk is spinning. It's fantastic. So again, if you can set it up with more space, I'd recommend doing that. But if not, I wouldn't sweat it. I think people are just being overly freaked out because the console is larger than they may have expected so they're thinking there will be a ton of heat and heat issues. I think the console is larger to KEEP it cooler and that there won't be heating problems. Time will tell!

Yup.

Defensive design - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It`s like those plates have a much bigger perimeter to account for the empty space we used to have left for ventilation, in other words, you can`t get it wrong unless you remove those plates.