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[HeisenbergFX4]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

 

[TheRedRiders]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

 

[NXGamer]

So if AVX2 shouldn't exist on a CPU, why does Cerny call out their native support for it in Road to PS5, and even uses it as a justification for why they did the variable frequency tech?

He even coyly suggests that AVX2 usage shouldn't be or won't be minimal; again, pointing out that the variable frequency would maximize the potential of developers using AVX2.

Again, I have not said NO AVX2 or even other Instructions such as FMA which have all been around for donkeys. What Mark said is correct of course, it can and will support AVX2 and he also stated that the extent of that COULD cause the CPU to throttle back.

From the block it is clear changes here have been made and that may be with less Ints, reduced width or something else. The point is that within the system and the SDK they can "focus" developers to use the functions to the best method of the system and some of the previously bound CPU workloads may no longer be limited to it.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Again, I have not said NO AVX2

Oh give me a break.. you clearly seemed to think PS5 wasn't supporting AVX2 extensions.. You strongly suggested they shouldn't exist on the CPU, and then when someone pointed out they are confirmed for PS5, you backed off that.. and said:

Not sure he did

 

[Zheph]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

Life of Black Tiger PS5 upgrade? let us dream ffs

 

[RasAlGhoul]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

At least tease a platform or publisher for us.

 

[kyliethicc]

Nintendo Direct Focused on 2021 Games Announced for February 17 - IGN

Nintendo has announced that a 50 minute Nintendo Direct will take place on Wednesday, February 17 at 2pm PT/5pm ET/10pm GMT and will feature "roughly 50 minutes of information focused on available games like Super #SmashBrosUltimate and games coming to #NintendoSwitch in the first half of 2021."

www.ign.com

I'm hoping for a Knack 3 announcement or Knack in Smash reveal.

 

[Neo Blaster]

The Madness of the PS5 Hunt

Millions of people are losing sleep and health in an attempt to snatch Sony’s latest console

medium.com

I already snatched one, can I have my threesome now?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

At least tease a platform or publisher for us.

100% rumor but its Xbox and no not the headset

Edit - Well not 100% but had to put that

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Again, I have not said NO AVX2 or even other Instructions such as FMA which have all been around for donkeys. What Mark said is correct of course, it can and will support AVX2 and he also stated that the extent of that COULD cause the CPU to throttle back.

From the block it is clear changes here have been made and that may be with less Ints, reduced width or something else. The point is that within the system and the SDK they can "focus" developers to use the functions to the best method of the system and some of the previously bound CPU workloads may no longer be limited to it.

You have to kinda take IntentionalPun in small doses.

He does get like this when he's not had his Weetabix.

 

[SlimySnake]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

Elden Ring PS5 exclusive confirmed.

 

[saintjules]

 

[kyliethicc]

100% rumor but its Xbox and no not the headset

Edit - Well not 100% but had to put that

Did Xbox buy Knack from Sony?

Would be game over for PS5.

 

[LiquidRex]

With regards to VRS, can there be different levels of effectiveness eg. Low, Medium, High?

 

[Zheph]

its Xbox

removing my like

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

100% buying these to give them a try for that price

 

[TheRedRiders]

Did Xbox buy Knack from Sony?

Would be game over for PS5.

The console war would have been over, we would have heard of a such a big acquisition by now.

 

[Lysandros]

You have to kinda take IntentionalPun in small doses.

He does get like this when he's not had his Weetabix.

I don't think he is wrong on that one though.

 

[RasAlGhoul]

100% rumor but its Xbox and no not the headset

Edit - Well not 100% but had to put that

Thank you. Allows my hype to deflate since I don’t own a series machine and won’t be buying one. If it’s a good game I’ll snag on pc.

 

[RaZoR No1]

100% rumor but its Xbox and no not the headset

Edit - Well not 100% but had to put that

Tomorrow is Wednesday..


I think I know that you know that I know what that could mean.
That I know nothing

 

[kyliethicc]

The console war would have been over, we would have heard of a such a big acquisition by now.

True. Since Knack, every generation, the console with Knack has won. Knack decides.

 

[TheRedRiders]

100% rumor but its Xbox and no not the headset

Edit - Well not 100% but had to put that

People have been saying we won't see any exclusives on Series X for a while, I hope we get to see something soon. Like Hellblade 2 gameplay footage. Most likely Sony would respond as well with there "bleed them out" tactics.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[TheRedRiders]

True. Since Knack, every generation, the console with Knack has won. Knack decides.

 

[Mr Moose]

With regards to VRS, can there be different levels of effectiveness eg. Low, Medium, High?

like 2x2, 4x4 and stuff?

 

[SlimySnake]

its Xbox

Pass.

err.. I mean Gamepass.

 

[NXGamer]

Oh give me a break.. you clearly seemed to think PS5 wasn't supporting AVX2 extensions.. You strongly suggested they shouldn't exist on the CPU, and then when someone pointed out they are confirmed for PS5, you backed off that.. and said:

OK, you want an argument, lets have a conversation and to help lets bring Mark in on it.

After I had that chat I went back and re-watched the video again to see what MC was saying and I quote.

You can see what he is saying and eluding to here, the fact the problem on PS5 is to support this they needed the VF to enable that power from CPU to GPU shift.

As such ALL he is saying is that the process now is deterministic and even though an engine MAY need 256-bit instructions (not just AVX) it may be low to medium use. Nothing has changed here from that statement, other than the Die shot shows that some sacrifices here seem based on that being a lower level than other areas, which is exactly what he said.

Supporting 256-bit instructions IS NOT the same thing as supporting ALL 256-bit instructions.

 

[LiquidRex]

like 2x2, 4x4 and stuff?

Yes, cheers.

 

[SlimySnake]

You have to kinda take IntentionalPun in small doses.

He does get like this when he's not had his Weetabix.

IntentionalPain

 

[DeepEnigma]

A little surprised that Alex continues to peddle in that.

 

[Lysandros]

OK, you want an argument, lets have a conversation and to help lets bring Mark in on it.

After I had that chat I went back and re-watched the video again to see what MC was saying and I quote.

You can see what he is saying and eluding to here, the fact the problem on PS5 is to support this they needed the VF to enable that power from CPU to GPU shift.

As such ALL he is saying is that the process now is deterministic and even though an engine MAY need 256-bit instructions (not just AVX) it may be low to medium use. Nothing has changed here from that statement, other than the Die shot shows that some sacrifices here seem based on that being a lower level than other areas, which is exactly what he said.

Supporting 256-bit instructions IS NOT the same thing as supporting ALL 256-bit instructions.

So the term native 256-bit instructions isn't related to FPU width?

 

[yewles1]

...are people forgetting that AMD CPU's support AVX and FMA as optional FP instruction sets and don't necessarily need both to operate?

 

[ethomaz]

So the term native 256-bit instructions isn't related to FPU width?

It is.

He is basically saying one of the reasons to variable frequency is the native support for 256bits in FPU.
So to maintain the same power envelope when running 256bits instructions it drops the clock of the CPU if needed.

 

[Lysandros]

It is.

He is basically saying one of the reasons to variable frequency is the native support for 256bits in FPU.
So to maintain the same power envelope when running 256bits instructions it drops the clock of the CPU if needed.

Yes i think the same way, Cerny makes it very clear indeed.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

 

[Dabaus]

Just havent seen this gif in awhile and wanted to bring it back

Does sony even make moves anymore? Seems every rumor nowadays is about Xbox.

 

[ethomaz]

Does sony even make moves anymore? Seems every rumor nowadays is about Xbox.

Well one company need to catch in good word of mouth.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Does sony even make moves anymore? Seems every rumor nowadays is about Xbox.

There was the Bluepoint and Square Enix rumor.

 

[Lysandros]

It is.

He is basically saying one of the reasons to variable frequency is the native support for 256bits in FPU.
So to maintain the same power envelope when running 256bits instructions it drops the clock of the CPU if needed.

In that case a 256-bit FPU is needed in order to support 256-bit instructions natively (1x256-bit/single cycle), correct?

 

[ethomaz]

In that case a 256-bit FPU is needed in order to support 256-bit instructions natively (1x256-bit/single cycle), correct?

I believe so.

Is 2x128 still called native? It is basically a emulation of 256bits using 2x 128bits.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I don't think he is wrong on that one though.

I wasn't referencing the accuracy of his arguments, rather the tone he uses to make them.

 

[Elog]

Maybe I am the only one but I can read Cerny's speech as if he is saying that 'zen2 supports 256-bit natively', 'it consumes a lot of power', 'problem' and 'we decided to go in a very different direction'.

Could one not interpret that as if they stripped out the native 256-but code, i.e. that it is not supported natively but instead made into 2 clks of 128-bit code? Or maybe Sony has confirmed somewhere else that 256-bit code is supported natively?

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe I am the only one but I can read Cerny's speech as if he is saying that 'zen2 supports 256-bit natively', 'it consumes a lot of power', 'problem' and 'we decided to go in a very different direction'.

Could one not interpret that as if they stripped out the native 256-but code, i.e. that it is not supported natively but instead made into 2 clks of 128-bit code? Or maybe Sony has confirmed somewhere else that 256-bit code is supported natively?

If it was the case he should not say the "different direction" was the variable frequency.

 

[Lysandros]

I believe so.

Is 2x128 still called native? It is basically a emulation of 256bits using 2x 128bits.

I tried to do a bit of research about it and i don't think it can be considered so. In that case, we can say that Zen 2 has full/native AVX-512 support but we know that it doesn't have it. I have some earlier posts about the matter.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Very nice. Thanks to share his complement.

OK, you want an argument, lets have a conversation and to help lets bring Mark in on it.

After I had that chat I went back and re-watched the video again to see what MC was saying and I quote.

You can see what he is saying and eluding to here, the fact the problem on PS5 is to support this they needed the VF to enable that power from CPU to GPU shift.

As such ALL he is saying is that the process now is deterministic and even though an engine MAY need 256-bit instructions (not just AVX) it may be low to medium use. Nothing has changed here from that statement, other than the Die shot shows that some sacrifices here seem based on that being a lower level than other areas, which is exactly what he said.

Supporting 256-bit instructions IS NOT the same thing as supporting ALL 256-bit instructions.

 

[kyliethicc]

You can see what he is saying and eluding to here, the fact the problem on PS5 is to support this they needed the VF to enable that power from CPU to GPU shift.

As such ALL he is saying is that the process now is deterministic and even though an engine MAY need 256-bit instructions (not just AVX) it may be low to medium use. Nothing has changed here from that statement, other than the Die shot shows that some sacrifices here seem based on that being a lower level than other areas, which is exactly what he said.

Supporting 256-bit instructions IS NOT the same thing as supporting ALL 256-bit instructions.

Maybe I am the only one but I can read Cerny's speech as if he is saying that 'zen2 supports 256-bit natively', 'it consumes a lot of power', 'problem' and 'we decided to go in a very different direction'.

Could one not interpret that as if they stripped out the native 256-but code, i.e. that it is not supported natively but instead made into 2 clks of 128-bit code? Or maybe Sony has confirmed somewhere else that 256-bit code is supported natively?

Seems their thinking was -

If we did 256 bit instructions like on desktop PCs, we'd have to do XYZ, so instead we did things differently. Our box, our way.

I think its safe to say the PS5 is customized and handles things in its own way that fits the console's needs. Let the games talk.

 

[Lysandros]

If it was the case he should not say the "different direction" was the variable frequency.

Yeah, this was clearly presented as one of the reasons leading to variable clocks solution.

Edit: I mean he is obviously not saying "we cut down the FPU width because of heat and power concerns".

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Maybe I am the only one but I can read Cerny's speech as if he is saying that 'zen2 supports 256-bit natively', 'it consumes a lot of power', 'problem' and 'we decided to go in a very different direction'.

Could one not interpret that as if they stripped out the native 256-but code, i.e. that it is not supported natively but instead made into 2 clks of 128-bit code? Or maybe Sony has confirmed somewhere else that 256-bit code is supported natively?

That's how I read it, tbh.

His statement, 'we decided to go in a very different direction', is the key point to focus on. Adding in VF isn't a "very different direction", it's a band aid to the problem of AVX2 usage being so power hungry.

Seems like double-pumping 128-bit AVX to support AVX2 is the most likely case for the PS5. At the end of the day we're talking about a 3+ billion cycles per second processor. So using two cycles to complete an AVX2 instruction isn't nearly the end of the world and probably isn't meaningful.

Given how Intel basically FUBAR'd AVX usage on PC by their fragmented support across the range of CPUs, most multiplatform devs haven't and aren't likely to make too much use of the wider CPU vector extensions.

 

[Elog]

If it was the case he should not say the "different direction" was the variable frequency.

I believe you are right - just when I listen to it again I would argue there is some level of ambiguity. Variable frequency is clearly a key component.

 

[Elog]

Seems like double-pumping 128-bit AVX to support AVX2 is the most likely case for the PS5. At the end of the day we're talking about a 3+ billion cycles per second processor. So using two cycles to complete an AVX2 instruction isn't nearly the end of the world and probably isn't meaningful.

Looking at the data that I have seen power consumption increases exponentially for 256-bit instructions compared to 128-bit. If that is true there is no real advantage at all to use it in an environment that is limited by power and thermal such as a console.