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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
BGs said:
Although you do not feel identified with the whole answer, I take advantage of your message to say some things.

To take advantage of a technology, you must work thinking about it. The important thing is to see that there are AAA games that have load times of 2 seconds (and even lower load times, in some cases "instantaneous" for the player). I mean, the technology works. But it is not "automatic", if you do not think about it it is logical that you cannot take advantage of it. You could get to see possibly absurd things like, for example, a cross-platform "Indie" that takes 20 seconds to load and instead an exclusive "AAA" loads in 0-2 seconds. This could happen.

Although obviously all this will change when multiplatform studios begin to massively use UE5 (and beware that, although it is "cool" to put the UE5 label on games created under UE4, it is not the same as creating them under UE5 from the beginning, be careful with the marketing).

But the important thing is not whether one platform loads a game in 20 seconds and the other in 18 seconds. This is only important in a schoolyard. The purpose of being able to load games with this speed is not so that people spend less time waiting, but the real purpose is to dispense with the usual limitations when designing a game and its playability in order to offer a greater and better overall experience.
Click to expand...
Why does this sound so beautiful.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
IntentionalPun said:
These numbers don't add up.. there is no way MS is making over 90% of their Xbox revenue on digital..
Click to expand...
You are right. I confused two separate numbers.

Nintendo's digital revenue in 2018 was only half a billion. Sony's was $12.5 billion. MS's overall revenue was 11.5 billion that year so sony's PSN revenue was more than Micorosft's total Xbox revenue and NIntendo's digital revenue ($450 million)




Still, the main comparison holds. Nintendo's overall revenue is roughly around the same as Microsoft's revenue. Which is pretty impressive. Not even close to Sony which is now approaching $25 billion but if we are impressed by Nintendo's record shattering numbers than surely its time to move on from making fun of MS not revealing sales figures.
 
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A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
IntentionalPun said:
These numbers don't add up.. there is no way MS is making over 90% of their Xbox revenue on digital..
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that, putting all their eggs on services, that might be a possibility.I mean between gold,gamepass,MTX and the digital games, it might...
Maybe 90% is too much but physical has been on a steep decline as opposed to the rise of f2p riddled with MTX.

Edit Oops I stand corrected by SlimySnake SlimySnake but honestly I feel like maybe by the end of the gen they will get there probably a bit less but I can see them getting 80% revenue being digital.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Anybody know where this scene come? I'm looking for the DF Crash comparison but I can't find it.



Bathallia faces are the best one when they talk about the best version lol
The best part is that he can't spin like he does when he is the only one talking.
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Setsuna Mudou said:
only this last quarter after that not being the case for almost 10 years
Click to expand...
No.. they never have not.

Even from your link:

Getting to over 200 million subscribers allowed Netflix’s operating profit to expand significantly, jumping 76 percent in 2020 compared with 2019.
Click to expand...

How did operating profit expand from 2019 to 2020 if it only happened in this last quarter exactly? lol

You guys just don't seem to understand what an operating profit is.. and think a company borrowing money is some terrible thing.
 
Zoro7

Zoro7

Banned
IntentionalPun said:
No.. they never have not.

Even from your link:



How did operating profit expand from 2019 to 2020 if it only happened in this last quarter exactly? lol

You guys just don't seem to understand what an operating profit is.. and think a company borrowing money is some terrible thing.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between operating profit and net profit though. Just saying.
 
Great Hair

Great Hair

Banned
Neo Blaster said:
My point was about how much revenue those 18 million subscribers actually bring, you're dodging the subject.
Click to expand...
Assuming all of them stick around for 365 days ($200). Lets also assume, about 10% of the catalogue are from Microsoft, 90% are 3rd party games.
18mll.*$200 = $3.6bll.

10% of $3.6bll. = $360mll. of which close to 100% go to MS (1st party)
90% of $3.6bll = $3.240bll. of which 30% go to MS (platform fee)
30% of $3.24bll. = $972mll. (platform fee)
-------------------------------------------------------------
$360mll. + $972mll. = $1.33bll. Revenue form $3.6bll. (about $1bll. profit)

Payments pending (guess): 25%? operating, add. costs ($333mll.) for things like:
- licensing software tools like Unreal, Unity, Havok etc. (<10%?)
- licensing music (<5%?)

another >10%? for
- server hosting games for 18mll. people and service, patching, profile updates and so
- maintenance of service (people on situ), electrical bill, hardware costs
- payments for new/old games to be added


yet somehow, they claim to generate $10bll.+ ...
Click to expand...
 
DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
ethomaz said:
Anybody know where this scene come? I'm looking for the DF Crash comparison but I can't find it.



Bathallia faces are the best one when they talk about the best version lol
The best part is that he can't spin like he does when he is the only one talking.
Click to expand...

The PS4 Pro version was better than the X1X version too. Why would the Series consoles get some sort of improvement? The developer most likely had the PS4 as the lead platform for development. This fitting seeing how that console sold more units and Crash is historically a PlayStation franchise.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
DarkMage619 said:
The PS4 Pro version was better than the X1X version too. Why would the Series consoles get some sort of improvement? The developer most likely had the PS4 as the lead platform for development. This fitting seeing how that console sold more units and Crash is historically a PlayStation franchise.
Click to expand...
I know that... I was looking to see the hilarious Batallhia faces :D
He can't hide the bias... he makes crying faces when somebody says "runs better on PS5".
How many muscles he twisted on his face?
 
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FrankWza

FrankWza

Member
Stuart360

Stuart360

Member
I think some of you are way off the mark with Alex. He's a hardcore PC master racer. Ever since he joined DF, its been like getting blood from a stone to hear him say anything positive with console versions of games. Even when he does, he will quickly point to that thing being the same, or better on PC.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
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Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
Jaguar Victory said:
It's a multiplier. You can put cloud GamePass on mobile, TV, etc. and still make killer money by expanding your subscription base. Expanding the audience beyond typical console sales.

If you have 5mm users paying $10 average you have 50mm a month or 600mm a year to spend on creation of or rental of content. If you have 25mm users you have 250mm a month or 3 billion a year on content.

Expand to 60mm users by expanding your audience and you generate 600mm monthly or 7.2 billion annually to fund content.

All the while you still make money on traditional sales and accessories. Scaling is the salvation.
Click to expand...
You're probably double counting there, which is what people still seem to not get and what makes this model tricky. Those users, for the most part were already in the ecosystem. Now let's say they really find great value in the game pass offer and stick with it. These same users will be paying ~$120 per year. That's the price of 2 full price games.
Now these same users were most likely spending quite a bit more money per year unless they were the super casual type that only plays fifa or fortnite and that's it.

That means you need to offset the amount of money they typically would spend per year on the ecosystem and deduct this from the total.

Let's say:

TR - total revenue of xbox division per year
GP - game pass revenue per year
NS - normal revenue based on game sales before game pass
LS - lost revenue for games that are now on game pass and won't get bought by the game pass subscribers)

Basically you can't assume TR = GP + NS

Instead, TR = GP + NS - LS

And this is a quite optimistic perspective, you might end up in a situation that someone could be inclined to buy a game, but seeing it on game pass makes this person think it's not worth the $60, seeing it's "free" for some.

This is a really tricky balance to achieve and in all honesty the only way a service of this kind would be profitable is if it really reaches the sort of Netflix / Disney+ levels of subscribers. MS has the cash to endure the storm for sure, the question is how long do they wait before pulling the plug. I don't think they have the mass market appeal to reach 100M or even close to those numbers of paying subscribers.
 
LiquidRex

LiquidRex

Member
ethomaz said:
Sony doesn't have all these PC tools to sell.
The event is most about DirectX, Azure and Cloud gaming.
Click to expand...
I would like clarity on what will happen to all the PS3, PSP and Vite titles, and why they didn't inform Vita devs they were closing the Store.
Also would be cool to know more on PSVR2 👍
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
LiquidRex said:
I would like clarity on what will happen to all the PS3, PSP and Vite titles, and why they didn't inform Vita devs they were closing the Store.
Also would be cool to know more on PSVR2 👍
Click to expand...
They didn't inform Devs? I mean where it is coming from?
I want to know more about PSVR2 too... there is probably a new feature to be talked this month.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
LiquidRex said:
https://www.ign.com/articles/some-p...ent-properly-warned-the-psn-store-would-close one example,
Barry Johnson from Lillymo Games says that the studio was “not warned about the closing of the Vita store in any way.”
Click to expand...
I mean is this dev ever in direct contact with Sony? Because there is reports that a memo was sent to developers way before the public announce.

"According to Waypoint reporter Patrick Klepek, the memo forewarned developers of the store closure and confirmed they could still release games and other content on those platforms before they were shut down."
 
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Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
IntentionalPun said:
No.. they never have not.

Even from your link:



How did operating profit expand from 2019 to 2020 if it only happened in this last quarter exactly? lol

You guys just don't seem to understand what an operating profit is.. and think a company borrowing money is some terrible thing.
Click to expand...
When people mention Netflix not being profitable, we're talking about their core business, collecting subscription fees to pay for the content + upkeep of the services / staff. They have been steadily taking in investor money to stay afloat and amass subscriptions. This was the first time they actually turned a profit without resorting to external investment.

They are sitting at 200M+ subs right now.

Let these numbers sink in in what it means for anyone else entering the streaming market, be it video or gaming content.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Setsuna Mudou said:
When people mention Netflix not being profitable, we're talking about their core business, collecting subscription fees to pay for the content + upkeep of the services / staff. They have been steadily taking in investor money to stay afloat and amass subscriptions. This was the first time they actually turned a profit without resorting to external investment.

They are sitting at 200M+ subs right now.

Let these numbers sink in in what it means for anyone else entering the streaming market, be it video or gaming content.
Click to expand...
Yeap due COVID-19 increasing a lot the subs it is the first time they were in blue without need to borrow money and the first time they started to pay these debts that dates up to a decade ago.

The uncertain is how it could be without COVID-19 and how it will be after COVID-19.

You can pretty much says COVID-19 saved Netflix business for now or give more time to them find balance... something they couldn't do in over 10 years.
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Setsuna Mudou said:
When people mention Netflix not being profitable, we're talking about their core business, collecting subscription fees to pay for the content + upkeep of the services / staff. They have been steadily taking in investor money to stay afloat and amass subscriptions. This was the first time they actually turned a profit without resorting to external investment.

They are sitting at 200M+ subs right now.

Let these numbers sink in in what it means for anyone else entering the streaming market, be it video or gaming content.
Click to expand...

You just aren't using profit correctly, in any way, whatsoever.

They don't borrow to keep themselves afloat.. they borrow to invest in their growth. They'd have plenty of free cash flow if they stopped investing so heavily.
 
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S

SlimeGooGoo

Banned
ethomaz said:
I mean is this dev ever in direct contact with Sony? Because there is reports that a memo was sent to developers way before the public announce.

"According to Waypoint reporter Patrick Klepek, the memo forewarned developers of the store closure and confirmed they could still release games and other content on those platforms before they were shut down."
Click to expand...
Sony doesn't care about what they consider "small fish".

That's why developers are migrating to Switch, due to Sony's negligence.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
ethomaz said:
I mean is this dev ever in direct contact with Sony? Because there is reports that a memo was sent to developers way before the public announce.

"According to Waypoint reporter Patrick Klepek, the memo forewarned developers of the store closure and confirmed they could still release games and other content on those platforms before they were shut down."
Click to expand...
They bought dev kits from Sony; so yes.

One of the devs bought a kit from Sony a month before Sony told them the store was shutting down soon lol
 
Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
IntentionalPun said:
You just aren't using profit correctly, in any way, whatsoever.

They don't borrow to keep themselves afloat.. they borrow to invest in their growth. They'd have plenty of free cash flow if they stopped investing so heavily.
Click to expand...
It's the same, they are increasing their expenses, they don't have the money to pay them, they needed more subs to stay afloat.
Obviously this is a dynamic equilibrium, at some point they could lower their costs and turn a huge profit with these same subs. However, the risk of losing subs if the pace and quality doesn't stay high is a real one.

The main point is, in order for Netflix to be sustainable at this cost base is by keeping around 200M subs. I'm thinking game development costs are pretty much in line with big budget cinema (for the top AAA releases), so this should say something about what's needed to turn a profit for a game subscription service.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Setsuna Mudou said:
It's the same, they are increasing their expenses, they don't have the money to pay them, they needed more subs to stay afloat.
Obviously this is a dynamic equilibrium, at some point they could lower their costs and turn a huge profit with these same subs. However, the risk of losing subs if the pace and quality doesn't stay high is a real one.

The main point is, in order for Netflix to be sustainable at this cost base is by keeping around 200M subs. I'm thinking game development costs are pretty much in line with big budget cinema (for the top AAA releases), so this should say something about what's needed to turn a profit for a game subscription service.
Click to expand...
It's not the same; they amortize their spending because the content is an investment that can't be considered part of the operating cost of a single year. They also are just doing other legit investing like expanding their production abilities, also money you'd spend in a year that you wouldn't write down as going all against your current year's profit. AND.. they don't plan to keep that content spending up.. hence why it's considered an investment, not soley something that goes against the current years operating income.

Same with Microsoft buying Bethesda.

Some find what Netflix does controversial; but most investors understand why they do it, because.. well.. it's logical.

Also the entire "Netflix = GamePass" thing is silly anyways.. Netflix has very few ways to make extra income outside of subs.. gaming obviously isn't limited there. Even just MTX is a huge add-on for MS, let alone full retail sales..or sales of the games to GamePass subs when the games leave the service.
 
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Lunatic_Gamer

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member



The versions tested were 1.004.000 on PS5 and 2.5.2103.230 on Xbox Series X|S.

Timestamps
00:00 - Xbox Series S
05:49 - Xbox Series X
11:37 - PS5

Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 1920x1080 and the lowest native resolution found being 1280x720. Native resolution pixel counts at 1280x720 seem to be uncommon on Xbox Series S. On Xbox Series S temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution.

PS5 uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3008x1692 and the lowest native resolution found being 1920x1080. Native resolution pixel counts at 1920x1080 seem to be rare on PS5. On PS5 temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

Xbox Series X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3456x1944 and the lowest native resolution found being 1920x1080. Native resolution pixel counts at 1920x1080 seem to be very rare on Xbox Series X and were found less often than on PS5. On Xbox Series X temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

In the scenes tested where both PS5 and Xbox Series X were not rendering at their maximum or minimum resolutions, the Xbox Series X rendered at a higher native resolution than the PS5. As an example, at one point in a cutscene the Xbox Series X rendered at a resolution of approximately 2792x1570 and the PS5 rendered the same scene at 2560x1440.

PS5 and Xbox Series X have extra trees and foliage in some scenes compared to Xbox Series S. PS5 has improved texture filtering compared to the Xbox consoles.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Lunatic_Gamer said:



The versions tested were 1.004.000 on PS5 and 2.5.2103.230 on Xbox Series X|S.

Timestamps
00:00 - Xbox Series S
05:49 - Xbox Series X
11:37 - PS5

Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 1920x1080 and the lowest native resolution found being 1280x720. Native resolution pixel counts at 1280x720 seem to be uncommon on Xbox Series S. On Xbox Series S temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution.

PS5 uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3008x1692 and the lowest native resolution found being 1920x1080. Native resolution pixel counts at 1920x1080 seem to be rare on PS5. On PS5 temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

Xbox Series X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3456x1944 and the lowest native resolution found being 1920x1080. Native resolution pixel counts at 1920x1080 seem to be very rare on Xbox Series X and were found less often than on PS5. On Xbox Series X temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

In the scenes tested where both PS5 and Xbox Series X were not rendering at their maximum or minimum resolutions, the Xbox Series X rendered at a higher native resolution than the PS5. As an example, at one point in a cutscene the Xbox Series X rendered at a resolution of approximately 2792x1570 and the PS5 rendered the same scene at 2560x1440.

PS5 and Xbox Series X have extra trees and foliage in some scenes compared to Xbox Series S. PS5 has improved texture filtering compared to the Xbox consoles.
Click to expand...

There is a thread on main page already ;)
 
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MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:



The versions tested were 1.004.000 on PS5 and 2.5.2103.230 on Xbox Series X|S.

Timestamps
00:00 - Xbox Series S
05:49 - Xbox Series X
11:37 - PS5

Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 1920x1080 and the lowest native resolution found being 1280x720. Native resolution pixel counts at 1280x720 seem to be uncommon on Xbox Series S. On Xbox Series S temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution.

PS5 uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3008x1692 and the lowest native resolution found being 1920x1080. Native resolution pixel counts at 1920x1080 seem to be rare on PS5. On PS5 temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

Xbox Series X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being approximately 3456x1944 and the lowest native resolution found being 1920x1080. Native resolution pixel counts at 1920x1080 seem to be very rare on Xbox Series X and were found less often than on PS5. On Xbox Series X temporal upsampling is used to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution.

In the scenes tested where both PS5 and Xbox Series X were not rendering at their maximum or minimum resolutions, the Xbox Series X rendered at a higher native resolution than the PS5. As an example, at one point in a cutscene the Xbox Series X rendered at a resolution of approximately 2792x1570 and the PS5 rendered the same scene at 2560x1440.

PS5 and Xbox Series X have extra trees and foliage in some scenes compared to Xbox Series S. PS5 has improved texture filtering compared to the Xbox consoles.
Click to expand...


They both seem pretty close to me. I was expecting a much larger delta between the two.

How good is their temporal upscaling?
 
assurdum

assurdum

Banned
ethomaz said:
The biggest noticeable difference is AF that is really weird on Xbox version.
Framerate is basically the same and resolution better on Series X.
Click to expand...
To be honest AF on console multiplat most of times is not too far off to the series X level... especially if you prioritize higher FPS.
 
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DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
IntentionalPun said:
I don't think they believe they'll have 1 billion subs and never said I did.

But the combo of:

- Satya mentioning billions of gamers, referring to the mobile market
- Spencer's comments on how they don't see Sony or Nintendo as their competitors.. and outright saying they think the market is much bigger than the reach of a console (which we know to be topping out at around 100 million)
- Committing $10 billion+ to buying studios, and potentially buying Discord partly to enhance their gaming offering

Means that I really don't think 50 million is some end goal of theirs.. or even 100 million.. and they do seam to think they'll get there by way of xCloud and the mobile market.



For now it's an option.. you'd have to be not paying attention to see that it's what they believe will be the end state of Game Pass. 100's of millions of gamers using xCloud directly or accessing services hosted in Azure's xCloud Tech they plan to offer to

And you kind of missed my point about what people play on phones and how the phones are already capable of playing those games. My point being that they aren't playing games that need more power than they already have.. AKA one of the advantages of game streaming doesn't apply to what people play on phones today, nor is there a lot of evidence that increased complexity / graphics is really what will make the mobile market buy into your product. (and that same increased complexity / graphics will naturally happen for the phones themselves as their tech improves)

There's very little upside to the mobile gamers using something like xCloud, even if it worked perfectly. They currently are playing games that both play just fine, and download quickly, to their phones.

It's just a back door into creating a "platform" usable by mobile users, that's what they see cloud streaming as. It is not something MS is investing heavily in as some "add on" to a console userbase.
Click to expand...
So what are you saying? MS is investing in xCloud to move from console gaming to streaming? As you acknowledged the streaming is an option and an option not all Game pass users have access to. Currently GPU users have an option to play console, PC and mobile. Why would they abandon the options and go all in on something that they would actually have less control over? When do you forsee this potential transition? You think MS would make a streaming transition while Sony and Nintendo continues to make traditional consoles?
 
jonnyp

jonnyp

Member
Stuart360 said:
I think some of you are way off the mark with Alex. He's a hardcore PC master racer. Ever since he joined DF, its been like getting blood from a stone to hear him say anything positive with console versions of games. Even when he does, he will quickly point to that thing being the same, or better on PC.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's why he hangs around in an Xbox discord full of fanboys and trolls...
 
Lunatic_Gamer

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member

Star Wars Republic Commando Update Adds 4K Support for PS5, 1440p for PS4 Pro​


Star Wars Republic Commando Update 1.01
  • Supported up to 4K rendering resolution on PlayStation 5.
  • Supported up to 1440p rendering resolution on PlayStation 4 Pro.
  • Optimized rendering shaders.
  • Improved audio quality.
  • Updated controller’s vibration settings.
  • Reduced controller’s dead zone size.
  • Minor bug fixes and quality of life changes.

mp1st.com

Star Wars Republic Commando Update Adds 4K Support for PS5, 1440p for PS4 Pro

Star Wars Republic Commando has finally released today for PlayStation 4 and Nintendo Switch, though it seems that the PS4
mp1st.com
 
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