Riky
$MSFT
Hopefully we will get extra performance options like Dirt 5, so everyone is happy.
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Hopefully we will get extra performance options like Dirt 5, so everyone is happy.
assurdum
Banned
No they can't. Ps5 uses low API coding, virtual coding is out of the question; the reason to use low API it's to give more benefit for next generation development.
Not only massive GPU difference, but also a lot less (almost half) memory size and bandwidth. It's not about resolution. It's basic game design that's affected. As Remedy dev said, it's not just scaling down the graphics.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I'm impressed with the amount of nonsense you came up with, ngl. Just wanted to add that the real reason is 'game optimization bad'. Keep on truckin'.
assurdum
Banned
Outside the CUs, GPU on series X has nothing more. It's the only reason because the TFs number is ahead. The whole GPU raw performance is not bounded to the only CUs counts.I'm impressed with the amount of nonsense you came up with, ngl. Just wanted to add that the real reason is 'game optimization bad'. Keep on truckin'.
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Shmunter
Member
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
What are you programming if I may ask? I don't think we have dedicated thread for this.
TheRedRiders
Member
I'm seeing that in the past few pages the PS5 CPU is being discussed, I'd like to share this quote from the Bluepoint developers about the PS5 CPU capabilities as I find it interesting, especially with regards to its potential.
Timestampped link
Timestampped link
onesvenus
Member
Based on what?
Superayate
Member
I think as it is set, that won't impact the game performances. It should really have been an higher problem if the Series console were not including the datas hardware decompression.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Yup less memory and bandwidth and features like sampler feedback streaming, variable rate shading and velocity architecture all which mitigate memory issues along with the SSD which is also the same as the XSX. There are plenty of PCs which don't meet the spec the XSS has. The XSS is not the weak link this generation.
I guess those devs at remedy, Id tech, etc are just concern trolling their issues with having the series s as the baseline for the generation then?
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Mr Moose
Member
Does the Switch count as this gen?
MasterCornholio
Member
But the PS5 is?
I don't see how that's possible but maybe you can explain that to me.
Iced Arcade
Member
am I missing something, I don't see him say the PS5 is?
wonder who "thewire" is
saintjules
Gold Member
MasterCornholio
Member
am I missing something, I don't see him say the PS5 is?
wonder who "thewire" is
Well he's saying the XSS isn't the weak link this generation. So if it isn't the XSS then which platform is? I mean the XSS is the weakest current gen console unless I'm missing something. Haven't seen the XSS edge out the other two in any comparison so that's proof that it's the weakest system out of the three. As for "the wire" I have no idea who he is. Lots of new accounts appear on this site so I don't know which one are alts.
Iced Arcade
Member
well, you also cut the 1st half of his post out which says "there are plenty of PCs which don't meet the spec the XSS has. The XSS is not the weak link this generation"'
kinda says it right there. anyway carry on.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Bit of a pointless statment then. PC would always be the weak link based on that logic
MasterCornholio
Member
But games are not designed for PCs from 20 years ago though. I mean if you want you can include consoles from previous generations.
dcmk7
Banned
Developers such as Remedy, 4A games and Id Tech to name a couple, have already said the Xbox Series S will affect/limit game development this generation. No mention of PC.
So guess it will be the weak link, in more cases than not, after all.
Rather trust developers with this kind of stuff, since they have actually worked with the hardware and are the experts rather than some ignorant warriors.
Iced Arcade
Member
anyway, I just didn't see where he said the PS5 was the weakest link. that's all, happy fishing
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MasterCornholio
Member
anyway, I just didn't see where he said the PS5 was the weakest link. that's all, happy fishing
I don't know it seems like he brought PC in to say that the XSS isn't the weakest link. Consoles will be the most common specifications that people will have so developers are going to target them. Anything that they develop has to be playable on the weakest platform which is the XSS. I know that on PC you can modify games to run on extremely weak PCs but that's what the games intend for their games.
Edit: Maybe I'm just failing to see how PC can be the weakest link since developers don't have to support all hardware.
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ethomaz
Banned
Well we need to check which minimum specs are next-gen PC games having nowadays.
Obvious crops-gen games that supports old PS4/XB1 will have minimum lower on PC parts. Let’s wait and see where these minimum will be when they drop PS4/XB1.
Well cross-gen Cyperpunk 2077 already has minimum similar/higher than Series S... maybe that is why it has so deal breaker issues on PS4/XB1 and only could reach something playable with PS4 Pro after several patches.
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Riky
$MSFT
Exactly, it's the move to a unified GDK that people are missing, on that scale the minimum requirement on PC will be below the Series S.
MasterCornholio
Member
I think the issue is that PCs always evolve throughout the generation while consoles always remain static. Developers can choose to abandon older hardware by increasing the minimum specifications while with consoles they have to make sure the game is playable on the weakest platform.
MasterCornholio
Member
Not always. Sometimes developers can incorporate lower settings into the console versions that are not available on PC. So it is possible to have minimum specifications be above the XSS.
Riky
$MSFT
Which PC game has minimum requirements above the Series S spec?
ethomaz
Banned
PC follow minimum console similar specs and are hold back during the whole generation... it receives a big jump in minimum specs when a new generation of consoles releases.
Some PC games did use some future proof tech but it is base is yet lay down on what consoles have.
This generation the PC minimum will be a bit higher but close to Series S due the better optimized nature of consoles but won’t go over that imo unless some big exclusive game like Crysis 2007 happens again.
Said that this gen changed a bit because the Xbox to supports all generations and have a next-gen machine below the normal standard could make the minimum PC specs a bit lower than what expected with a normal new generation .
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
There are plenty of devs that have said the XSS is not a problem. You think those devs are lying but your devs of choice are being honest? If a developer uses the features available to them they won't have an issue. I'd love to see that ID developer's comments now that the system is actually out vs comments made before the system came out. The improvements in the GDK go a long way too. Development will improve as the generation continues.
Please point out where I mentioned the PS5 at all. I NEVER said anything about the PS5. Low end PCs are a much bigger drag on gaming than the XSS. People don't remember that every game that hits Xbox hits PC too. How can the XSS be holding things back but PCs with traditional hard drives and GTX 1060s aren't a problem at all. This is all about dumping on MS vs an actual concern.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! The PC is always the weakest link because games developed for them have no set spec to code to. You have to hit a moving target where on consoles there is a fixed spec and you know exactly what performance you can expect. It's a reminder that people complaining about the XSS are being disingenuous.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Sorry PC gamers your platform is the weakest link
I hope you all feel bad about it
scrubs
I hope you all feel bad about it
scrubs
MasterCornholio
Member
Well like the lowest LOD settings for control for example.
In this case the PS5s LOD is set lower than the PCs lowest settings. This is something that we will see more of as the gen goes on which is typical of consoles.
So it's indeed possible for these consoles to have to run these games at settings lower than the minimum on PC.
MasterCornholio
Member
Pretty easy. Developers can just set the minimum requirements higher on PC. They can't do that with consoles. That's the main disadvantage of having static hardware.
Riky
$MSFT
PS5 isn't relevant as it has its own SDK. Series S now runs a GDK with the PC versions, which game has higher minimum settings on PC than the Series S? Hitman 3 for example has a minimum spec of a HD7870, that's a 2gb Vram 360 era card.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well the PS5 is more powerful than the XSS so the XSS can't run those LOD settings higher than the PS5 can. It's an example of one game that has a setting lower than the PC minimum settings.
saintjules
Gold Member
Devs don't decide min spec's generally it's the publishers, if a dev is targeting pc then there will be commercial pressure to account for at least the majority of gaming PC's out there so that would mean that they design the game to run on a PC worse than a Series S. I think in two/three years time it would beat the min specs would be equal to a series s.
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What is the example here?
Riky
$MSFT
Which is totally irrelevant like I said as it's a separate SDK.
Once again the Series S is now part of a unified Microsoft GDK with PC development. So developers would need to set the minimum spec higher than the Series S for it be the lowest specced machine. Once again which game released so far has a higher minimum spec than a Series S?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lol Sony took my "they are too quiet " criticisms to heart.
MasterCornholio
Member
Control with it's LOD settings being lower on consoles than PC.
MasterCornholio
Member
Then why is Controls LOD settings lower on consoles than PC?
yewles1
Member
Dragon Ball Xenoverse as well.
Riky
$MSFT
What's that have to do with games being held back by the lowest common denominator? That game was originally developed on last gen consoles and has just been patched for next gen. It didn't have the new machines in mind when originally developed. That might just be a hangover from the PS4/X1 development.
Cool, given the factor that the min specs of Control on pc is
Minimum:
- CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 4350
- GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 / AMD Radeon R9 280X
- RAM: 8GB
- OS: Windows 7, 64bit
- DirectX: DX11
MasterCornholio
Member
Why would PCs hold anything back since developers can choose to ignore old hardware? Which is something they already do BTW and you proved that with Hitman's minimum specifications.
Riky
$MSFT
What the minimum spec is would be probably more market dependent than anything else, they would want to target as many PC owners as possible for sales reasons, so since all Series S games will be on PC it will be set by where the majority of PC owners are. I think most PC owners are still on 1080p according to Steam and I would guess that the majority still use a mechanical HDD as well.
Stuart360
Member
The reason why 1080p, is still the most common rez on PC is becasue of high refresh rate monitors, and most PC users preffering higher framerates over higher resolutions. And most PC users have at least SATA SSD's. Plus PC users tend to have more ram to play with compared to consoles, reducing the need for super fast SSD's.
MasterCornholio
Member
You're right about that but then again consoles tend to set a baseline every gen due to how popular they are. Just looking at last gen more than 170 million people bought consoles. That's a pretty huge number in my opinion. It would make sense for developers to set that as a baseline than PCs from 20 years ago.
Physiognomonics
Member
My statements about the cache and the RDNA2 Rops are information available publicly. Just do a bit of digging and you'll see.I'm impressed with the amount of nonsense you came up with, ngl. Just wanted to add that the real reason is 'game optimization bad'. Keep on truckin'.
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