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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
ToadMan said:
It's a hang up on the Teraflop concept and that itself is hangover from PC testing where the system is non-variable and just switch GPUs for the tests. No surprise the cards with more Tflops did better - of course they did, the test was designed only to test Tflop differences and tells you nothing about the performance of 2 different systems.

The same has happened in a lot of consumer electronics stuff. Remember when cameras were marketed only by their Megapixels while ignoring the quality of glass that got the light onto the CCD? Or when TV sales were reduced to terms like HD, or HD Ready and no one cared about contrast or lag or quality of input sources. And of course, when cars were all about HP, not to mention when processors were all about Clock speeds.

All those single point measures were incorrect - they became marketing terms because consumers didn't know enough to understand the tech and what it meant and often neither did the sales people and marketers. These were specialist items being sold to lay people and that meant dumbing things down for them.

And now you have console GPU Tflop comparisons throwing people for a loop. Unfortunately nothing in life can be reduced to a single number like that... its very inconvenient and not that many people have the motivation to educate themselves on the nuance - just click a like, nod in agreement and move on, even in the face of data that opposes the herd's views.
Click to expand...
Its wild.

The cpu Ghz speeds basically starting over when dual cores came out had some ppl doing the exact same thing back then.

And even then, I looked for which cpus had better instruction set compatibility, (MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3. etc) so for me it was never cpu speeds only. Its one reason why I switched to using Intel years ago. AMD is better with this now.

When I used a site like GPUBoss, I never once looked for or focused on a TF number. I didnt even know what that was until 2013. I always compared texture rates, pixel rates, shading units, memory bandwidth, etc.

Hell, the power difference between the base PS4 and XBO wasnt just TF, it was also memory/ram differences. This gets bought up every few months then gets completely forgotten.

So its amazes me when I see certain folks bring up console specs, comparisons to PC specs and then be completely closed minded when it comes to specs.
OneTruth said:
Because we dont have any real next-gen multiplatforms games. Old engines without any RNDA 2 effects and optimization.
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Lets say things dont really change once its next gen only games. What then?

Again, its interesting that no one really said this the last two console generations. Even with the RDNA 2 optimizations, what do ppl expect to happen? Because right now....for the sake of simplicity.... the PS5 and XSX trade blows in comparisons for next gen versions of games.

When its BC XSX usually has clear advantages.
 
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SportsFan581

SportsFan581

Member
Shmunter said:
Yeah the Pro vs OneX and the PS5 vs XsX performance profiles are a head scratcher. You shouldn’t need to go out of your way to get decent results on the more modern console. I’m adamant it’s the 10/6 memory setup causing issues, and without proper care to optimise it’s letting the system down.
Click to expand...

OR, maybe there is nothing wrong with the XSX design and the PS5 is simply exploiting its statistical rasterization advantages in some scenarios.


GIF by Aminé
 
J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
twilo99 said:
Crazy
Click to expand...
Ask yourself this:

Why is it less games with 120fps on PS5 vs Series consoles. If the XSS has more than PS5....that should help get an idea its not about the power of the console.

If there were....no 120fps games at all on PS5...that would be another story.

I see ppl already explained this tho.
 
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J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
onesvenus said:
I do think PS5 will support all the Fidelity FX effects. Having said that, the end credits of RE8, which shows the same logos in PS4, and a random tweet doesn't seem enough evidence to state something like this.
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I wish there was a checklist of which devs, studios we can use as legit sources. I always see this flip back n forth.....

First DF, NXGamer was fine, then it was let's ask devs, then when we get devs input, tweets, ....well not this dev....

IMO, if a dev isnt acting or showing any blatant bias or fanboyism....whats the problem?

That said, I agree with you.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Lunatic_Gamer said:
PS5 FidelityFX CONFIRMED By Dev - Ray Tracing, FSR & More | Playstation 5 Home For VR Incoming?




0:00 Start
0:08 Sony Epic
5:11 FidelityFX on PS5
Click to expand...


onesvenus said:
I do think PS5 will support all the Fidelity FX effects. Having said that, the end credits of RE8, which shows the same logos in PS4, and a random tweet doesn't seem enough evidence to state something like this.
Click to expand...


FidelityFX is open source and it available to any hardware.
 
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onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
jroc74 said:
IMO, if a dev isnt acting or showing any blatant bias or fanboyism....whats the problem?

That said, I agree with you.
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None at all, but people take Twitter posts as truth when what somebody says follows their wishes. I'd love to know how many of the people who have given credibility to that tweet know if EXOR studios have something announced for PS5. They do, so they might know that info but believing that without thinking is crazy.
LiquidRex said:
Take a look at this...
Click to expand...

Yup yup, I read that!
ethomaz said:
FidelityFX is open source and it available to any hardware.
Click to expand...
Of course, the question, being OS is not if they work but how they work. I want to believe that most people that say PS5 doesn't support them mean either not having hardware support or being more expensive to run than in XSX
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
onesvenus said:
Of course, the question, being OS is not if they work but how they work. I want to believe that most people that say PS5 doesn't support them mean either not having hardware support or being more expensive to run than in XSX
Click to expand...
Hardware support is a bit weird.
FidelityFX is a set of effects that are software.
It is open source and should run in any hardware (including nVidia GPUs).

Now you are saying something AMD optimized their driver to run FidelityFX better... because if that is the case nVidia doesn't give a shit to FidelityFX so they will never optimize their drivers for it.

On console you mean Sony didn't optimize the API to run FidelityFX? Mostly like.
But devs can use these set of tools effects in any hardware... there is no restriction... it is made to run in any GPU hardware and not have some standard that only exists in some GPU brand.
 
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R

reksveks

Member
Derift said:
just judging from the comment im going to guess this person hasn't actually played the game.... asking to keep progress when you die breaks the game...
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Think he is just commenting on the fact that games like hades, allows the player to slightly power up between runs therefore it makes it feel like you are constantly making progress. I thought that this game did have something like that though but maybe it's less than other roguelikes.
 
Mod of War: Remastered

Mod of War: Remastered

Ω
Staff Member
Folks, stop posting random gaming news and opinions in this thread. It’s about the tech in these consoles which includes tools, SDKs, API, etc- not random sales stats, last gen game awards, what some random Twitter clown said to console war, or software reviews.

We have other threads for those, so take the discussions there.

Thank you.
 
cragarmi

cragarmi

Member
Mod of War said:
Folks, stop posting random gaming news and opinions in this thread. It’s about the tech in these consoles which includes tools, SDKs, API, etc- not random sales stats, last gen game awards, what some random Twitter clown said to console war, or software reviews.

We have other threads for those, so take the discussions there.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Seriously this thread has outlived its usefulness, it has passed on! This thread is no more! It has has ceased to be! It has expired and gone to meet 'is maker!, a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't updated its firmware it would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the raytraced pipeline! 'its kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!
 
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P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
cragarmi said:
Seriously this thread has outlived its usefulness, it has passed on! This thread is no more! It has has ceased to be! It has expired and gone to meet 'is maker!, a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't updated its firmware it would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the raytraced pipeline! 'its kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!
Click to expand...
monty pythons flying circus GIF
 
Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
cragarmi said:
Seriously this thread has outlived its usefulness, it has passed on! This thread is no more! It has has ceased to be! It has expired and gone to meet 'is maker!, a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't updated its firmware it would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the raytraced pipeline! 'its kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!
Click to expand...

This is my safe space stop trying to get it closed you big fat poo heads
 
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assurdum

assurdum

Banned
twilo99 said:
Crazy
Click to expand...
Are you new? Xbox console BC is tied to virtual coding. Ps5 BC indeed is deeply bounded to the physical "hardware emulation". On ps5 you need to rewrite tons of code, game by game, to unlock 120fps; probably it's not even possible to have access to enough hardware resources. On Xbox it's almost as to push just a button for such enhancement.
 
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P

Physiognomonics

Member
SlimySnake said:
What's everyone's thoughts on this?

hEmlT1J.png


This only happens in cutscenes when they up the graphics quality and use hero assets and better lighting. Richard said it's because the game is not yet optimized for xbox. And yet the xbox one x version outperforms the PS4 Pro like you'd expect it too.

I have brought this up several times now so this might seem like a broken record, but is there a bottleneck somewhere in the XSX? If so, where? The ram bandwidth is higher. the CPU clockspeed is higher. The GPU is more powerful. Clearly the DirectX vs whatever openGL libraries they are using for the PS4 versions are not the factor since the xbox one x version is outperforming the pro like it should.

If anything I wouldve expected the PS5 to drop frames like this based of all the pre-release hysteria over the variable clocks. People were convinced that the PS5 was actually 8-9 tflops because Cerny had said that the clocks would drop if the power consumption went above the power budget of the cooling system. Many bans were handed out, and I guess time has proven those bans legit because clearly this thing isnt 8-9 tflops and the 12 tflops console with fixed clocks is the one struggling to maintain performance in several games now.

I wish we had a PC release for this because then i could compare the performance against my rtx 2080 which MS said is equivalent to the xsx GPU based on their Gears 5 tests.
Click to expand...
The main reason is that Xbox GPU is not "more powerful" and both CPUs are virtually identical according to some devs. The higher bandwidth might not make a difference in many games like this one.

We know PS5 is a more efficient machine. But why? Essentially it has more cache by CUs than Xbox GPU, particularly of the new L1 cache (which is the main upgrade RDNA got compared to GCN and explain most of the performance gains according to some). In some games (more than in others) Xbox might be seriously cache starved compared to PS5, causing a lot of inefficiencies.

I don't know if you all know this, probably not, but Xbox RDNA2 Rops are actually cut down (less powerful) versions of RDNA1 Rops included in PS5 (that's on top of the clocks difference). RDNA2 Rops are maybe cut down because RDNA2 GPUs have Infinite cache that could compensate somehow the downgrade in performance (because ROPs performance is very much dependant of ram bandwidth). But as XSX has not Infinite cache, the downgraded Rops could be a problem in many cases.
 
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LiquidRex

LiquidRex

Member
Physiognomonics said:
The main reason is that Xbox GPU is not "more powerful" and both CPUs are virtually identical according to some devs. The higher bandwidth might not make a difference in many games like this one.

We know PS5 is a more efficient machine. But why? Essentially it has more cache by CUs than Xbox GPU, particularly of the new L1 cache (which is the main upgrade RDNA got compared to GCN and explain most of the performance gains according to some). In some games (more than in others) Xbox might be seriously cache starved compared to PS5, causing a lot of inefficiencies.

I don't know if you all know this, probably not, but Xbox RDNA2 Rops are actually cut down (less powerful) versions of RDNA1 Rops included in PS5 (that's on top of the clocks difference). RDNA2 Rops are maybe cut down because RDNA2 GPUs have Infinite cache that could compensate somehow the downgrade in performance (because ROPs performance is very much dependant of ram bandwidth). But as XSX has not Infinite cache, the downgraded Rops could be a problem in many cases.
Click to expand...
Won't the PS5 CPU being more free compared to XSX also have a positive effect, for example the SSD IO has its own co-processor compared to the XSX.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
3liteDragon said:
Click to expand...

I've seen ML terms being thrown around.

And every gamer has seen mo-cap animations being based on hooking up actors in games or movies with green screens and dots on them where a program tracks those nodes to make animations.

So what's the deal with ML that makes it so much better than before?
 
TwistedSyn

TwistedSyn

Member
So I was watching the newest video from Digital Foundry today about the development of a game called Recompile (Really cool Metroidvania), and what really caught my attention was one of the devs talking about porting it to the PS5 and it working on its first go without having to mess around with the code.

Time stamped

 
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J

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
TwistedSyn said:
So I was watching the newest video from Digital Foundry today about the development of a game called Recompile (Really cool Metroidvania), and what really caught my attention was one of the devs talking about porting it to the PS5 and it working on it's first go without having to mess around with the code.

Time stamped

Click to expand...

It does go with what we heard about devs saying its easy to develop for PS5.

Getting dev kits earlier and easy to develop for makes for a great combination.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
cragarmi said:
Seriously this thread has outlived its usefulness, it has passed on! This thread is no more! It has has ceased to be! It has expired and gone to meet 'is maker!, a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't updated its firmware it would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the raytraced pipeline! 'its kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!
Click to expand...
Hmmm...funny...I keep seeing posts here and discussions of the technology in these (now) current gen boxes. Feel free to stop reading or posting if it's not meeting your need though. I know I'll certainly stop when things reach that point.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
jroc74 said:
It does go with what we heard about devs saying its easy to develop for PS5.

Getting dev kits earlier and easy to develop for makes for a great combination.
Click to expand...
lol i love how passionate he is about getting it to work on the first build. as a programmer, i sympathize with that. i am almost shocked when my code changes, let alone any new apps work on the first try. you always miss something, so Sony's tools must have been very well documented and simplified for it to just 'work'.
 
H

Hashi

Member
StreetsofBeige said:
I've seen ML terms being thrown around.

And every gamer has seen mo-cap animations being based on hooking up actors in games or movies with green screens and dots on them where a program tracks those nodes to make animations.

So what's the deal with ML that makes it so much better than before?
Click to expand...
You can "learn" machine (make algorithm) than knows characteristics of "angry", "sad", "happy", "scare", "pensive" etc faces.
 
twilo99

twilo99

Gold Member
assurdum said:
Are you new? Xbox console BC is tied to virtual coding. Ps5 BC indeed is deeply bounded to the physical "hardware emulation". On ps5 you need to rewrite tons of code, game by game, to unlock 120fps; probably it's not even possible to have access to enough hardware resources. On Xbox it's almost as to push just a button for such enhancement.
Click to expand...

I get it, its just crazy how different the they approached the whole situation. I'm sure Sony could've done the exact same thing and had all these games run at 120fps
 
cragarmi

cragarmi

Member
Sinthor said:
Hmmm...funny...I keep seeing posts here and discussions of the technology in these (now) current gen boxes. Feel free to stop reading or posting if it's not meeting your need though. I know I'll certainly stop when things reach that point.
Click to expand...
Truthfully, I just saw an opportunity to quote Monty Python 😅, but people seem to post any old rubbish here!
 
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