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[DJ12]

90 percent of people in reeeee era are set on this being a console chip.

Must be a lot of sheep there then. There's very little actual evidence Gonzalo is even a console chip never mind ps5.

It's based on assumptions at best.

 

[LordOfChaos]

LordOfChaos does this bode well for those GI techniques like Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination advertised at the start of the gen?

I would guess so, anything detecting collisions would benefit from this performance.

Even under CUDA the 2080TI does 82,000FPS here, so the Navi result is a total standout from anything that exists (Navi at 247,739.4 FPS again). I wonder if it's something that Sony/MS pushed for for their vision of the next gen with far more physics events on screen at once. Maybe even a half step towards RDNA 2.0's hybrid ray tracing solution?

 

[SonGoku]

There's no chance that score could be a bug? its too good to be true result?

 

[SonGoku]

90 percent of people in reeeee era are set on this being a console chip.

Must be a lot of sheep there then. There's very little actual evidence Gonzalo is even a console chip never mind ps5.

It's based on assumptions at best.

People just want to believe man, they jump without thinking twice at the fist sign of any legitimate leak even if it is a complete hoax
I don't blame them for that

 

[ethomaz]

90 percent of people in reeeee era are set on this being a console chip.

It won't be the first time 100% of the reeeee era are together in the same wrong ship

I watch the thread due the leaks but the conversation is barely passable in terms of wishes, dreams and made up ideias.
Well I can't say this thread is any better but the number of wishes and dreams are less unrealistic than most there.

I think the lack of news, leaks, and info are making people crazy.

But hey it is fun to read everything

 

[LordOfChaos]

There's no chance that score could be a bug? its too good to be true result?

We'll find out soon enough when more results come in in a few days! I also asked John Poole, the owner of Geekbench if it was possible the result was borked in any way, they'll usually mark fakes quickly

 

[sonomamashine]

Must be a lot of sheep there then. There's very little actual evidence Gonzalo is even a console chip never mind ps5.

It's based on assumptions at best.

based on previous chips (console chips) that G stands for Gaming, Ps4 - Zubor spotted a least 1 year before release, you can clearly read speculation on the thread title, just speculating possible leaks, i don't understand why you calling people sheeps .

There's no chance that score could be a bug? its too good to be true result?

what makes you think that ? even 5700 xt scored very high at particule physics

People just want to believe man, they jump without thinking twice at the fist sign of any legitimate leak even if it is a complete hoax
I don't blame them for that

did you exclude yourself ? you are one of the most optimistic in here

 

[SonGoku]

Well I can't say this thread is any better but the number of wishes and dreams are less unrealistic than most there.

I think they are more pessimistic over there

did you exclude yourself ? you are one of the most optimistic in here

I don't believe in any particular leak

based on previous chips (console chips) that G stands for Gaming, Ps4 - Zubor spotted a least 1 year before release

Connections with PS5 are wild speculation

 

[DeepEnigma]

90 percent of people in reeeee era are set on this being a console chip.

Oh I remember those same people on this site in 2012... the majority were wrong then too.

But yes, all the speculation is fun.

 

[Fake]

If 99% believe thats not means will be true.

 

[sonomamashine]

LordOfChaos What are your thoughts on the 2080TI full length vapor chamber?
The card design is pretty slim even though it pulls 300W+ during load, seems like a perfect fit for consoles pushing 200W+

7nm EUV spec was finalized in 2018 (3 years in advance), plenty of time for consoles to design for 7nm EUV from the start, RDNA2 is 7nm EUV as well
As per Cerny words engeneering takes 4 years

Both are looking good:

Samsung Electronics to Begin Mass Production of 7 nm EVU Chips in June

Samsung Electronics will start mass production of 7 nanometer (nm) extreme ultraviolet (EUV) chips in June, the first time in the global semiconductor industry

www.businesskorea.co.kr

TSMC To Begin 7nm EUV Mass Production In June

TSMC is expected to begin mass production of chips using the second-generation 7nm process with EUV lithography in June, this year.

www.tomshardware.co.uk

Many things point towards 7nm EUV

• Spec was finalized in 2018 (just in time for engineering samples)
• RT & RDNA2 are 7nm EUV
• 7nm EUV yields are on par with 7nm DUV
• 7nm EUV begins mass production at the end of the second quarter of this year for both TSCM & Samsung
• 7nm EUV is cheaper than standard 7nm DUV

if it isn't ready in time for Q4 2020 they should just delay launch
It doesn't make sense to rush release 6 to 12 months and miss out on massive performance gains (8TF vs 12TF) not to mention cheaper and less power hungry SoCs

Holly shit, never even knew such mythical Kaiju existed
I don't discard 14.2TF but i also consider it the most optimistic of scenarios, not very likely

very optimistic, i dont believe any leaks either just speculation based on what we have (leaks) maybe this can be possible.
not saying, this is it !

 

[SonGoku]

very optimistic, i dont believe any leaks either just speculation based on what we have (leaks) maybe this can be possible.
not saying, this is it !

Don't really see your point here, all those posts aren't based in any "leak". I don't base my speculation on ilegitimate leaks, i do it based on known facts and what's technologically possible.

i know next gen is RDNA 1, people are used to GCN calculation, i dont want them to get confused.

if you calculate tf based on CUs and Clocks found in a Navi card they are for all intents and purposes Navi flops.
If your target was 8-9TF you should have went with lower clocks or CUs for your example.

 

[sonomamashine]

Don't really see your point here, all those posts aren't based in any "leak". I don't base my speculation on ilegitimate leaks, i do it based on known facts and what's technologically possible.

My point is, you are the most OPTIMISTIC of the bunch , i never said anything about you believing LEAKS.
you make WILD guesses EUV, RDNA 2, 14 TF etc ... and yet making fun of others

 

[SonGoku]

My point is, you are the most OPTIMISTIC of the bunch , i never said anything about you believing LEAKS.
you make WILD guesses EUV, RDNA 2, 14 TF etc ... and yet making fun of others

This is the post where it all started, this is the post you replied to

People just want to believe man, they jump without thinking twice at the fist sign of any legitimate leak even if it is a complete hoax
I don't blame them for that

This is about believing blindly in leaks and you turn it into me making fun of what exactly?

 

[DJ12]

based on previous chips (console chips) that G stands for Gaming, Ps4 - Zubor spotted a least 1 year before release, you can clearly read speculation on the thread title, just speculating possible leaks, i don't understand why you calling people sheeps

G is also in some Athlon chips, not right at the start granted, but part of the code name.

For all anyone knows, AMD could just be testing a new desktop APU that isn't actually gimped like usually and are trying to hide it from the masses. Nothing would kill intel more than a very good CPU, with a very good GPU on die.

After all the clocks are unrealistic for a console.

There are numerous things it could be for with the 'evidence', people just be reaching, simple as that.

Maybe it is the PS5 chip, but based on the 'evidence' not speculation, I don't know how anyone can claim anything.

 

[sonomamashine]

This is the post where it all started, this is the post you replied to

This is about believing blindly in leaks and you turn it into me making fun of what exactly?

didnt you Like this post

It won't be the first time 100% of the reeeee era are together in the same wrong ship

I watch the thread due the leaks but the conversation is barely passable in terms of wishes, dreams and made up ideias.
Well I can't say this thread is any better but the number of wishes and dreams are less unrealistic than most there.

I think the lack of news, leaks, and info are making people crazy.

But hey it is fun to read everything

i'm not fighting you btw, just saying

 

[Fake]

Keep fighting.

 

[SonGoku]

didnt you Like this post



i'm not fighting you btw, just saying

Yes and? I agree about ree banking on the wrong horse (Gonzalo) did you not see my reply?

I think they are more pessimistic over there

 

[Fake]

Just use kamehameha and move on.

 

[sonomamashine]

Just use kamehameha and move on.

would take too much time to load just do this

 

[SonGoku]

Anyways here are my estimates, I'll post them again since you ignored it apparently:
7nm DUV

• 9-10TF - MAYBE 11TF with some state of the art cooling

Spoiler

60CU total - 54CU enabled (3SEs)
390-400mm2 on 320bit bus
380-390mm2 on 256bit bus

• 54CUs @ 1400Mhz = 9.67TF
• 54CUs @ 1500Mhz = 10.36TF
• 54CUs @ 1550Mhz = 10.7TF
• 54CUs @ 1592Mhz = 11TF (best case scenario)

7nm EUV

• 11-13TF - MAYBE 14.2TF with a big die ~390mm2

Spoiler

66CU total - 60 enabled (3SEs)
348.68mm2 on a 384 bit bus

• 60CUs @ 1500Mhz = 11.5TF
• 60CUs @ 1600Mhz = 12.28TF
• 60CUs @ 1693Mhz = 13TF

80CU total - 72 enabled (4SEs)
390mm2 on a 384bit bus

• 72CUs @1520 = 14TF (best case scenario)

 

[sonomamashine]

Anyways here are my estimates, I'll post them again since you ignored it apparently:
7nm DUV

• 9-10TF - MAYBE 11TF with some state of the art cooling

Spoiler

60CU total - 54CU enabled (3SEs)
390-400mm2 on 320bit bus
380-390mm2 on 256bit bus

• 54CUs @ 1400Mhz = 9.67TF
• 54CUs @ 1500Mhz = 10.36TF
• 54CUs @ 1550Mhz = 10.7TF
• 54CUs @ 1592Mhz = 11TF (best case scenario)

7nm EUV

• 11-13TF - MAYBE 14.2TF with a big die ~390mm2

Spoiler

66CU total - 60 enabled (3SEs)
348.68mm2 on a 384 bit bus

• 60CUs @ 1500Mhz = 11.5TF
• 60CUs @ 1600Mhz = 12.28TF
• 60CUs @ 1693Mhz = 13TF

80CU total - 72 enabled (4SEs)
390mm2 on a 384bit bus

• 72CUs @1520 = 14TF (best case scenario)

are those Navi TF's ? if so, it's ridiculously optimistic . (didn't ignore them).
9 - 10 MAX wich i dont think still acceptable EUV not happening.

 

[SonGoku]

are those Navi TF's ? if so, it's ridiculously optimistic . (didn't ignore them).

They are based on Navi hardware, yes

9 - 10 MAX w

lol those were part of my estimates
edit:
Im curious, what's your CU/clocks configuration estimate or range

 

[sonomamashine]

They are based on Navi hardware, yes

lol those were part of my estimates
edit:
Im curious, what's your CU/clocks configuration estimate or range

i got lost in the argument already posted it, (same as yours between 10.7Tf and 13Tf Max GCN)
based on Gonzalo :
36 CU's @1800mhz = 8.3 Tf RDNA 1
40 CU's @1800mhz = 9.2 Tf RDNA 1
if the clocks are too high for a console

46 CU's @ 1550mhz = 9.1 Tf RDNA 1
44 CU's @ 1550mhz = 8.7 Tf RDNA 1 (i'm leaning more on this one tbh)

 

[ArabianPrynce]

if i am interpreting this correctly. If the gonzalo rumor is true, next gen consoles could be on par with even the gtx 2060 super. People have said that consoles are gtx 1080 level and this car according to the benchmark are neck to neck with gtx 2060.

 

[Insane Metal]

OMG SO MUCH CONJECTURE

I don't follow this thread anymore, we know so little but everyday there's so many new posts.

 

[SonGoku]

same as yours between

So 11-12TF (safe bet) 13-14TF (best case) of RDNA2 floating point performance then
I use Navi architecture for my estimates

 

[Gamernyc78]

OMG SO MUCH CONJECTURE

I don't follow this thread anymore, we know so little but everyday there's so many new posts.

Numbers being thrown around at this point.

 

[DJ12]

are those Navi TF's ? if so, it's ridiculously optimistic . (didn't ignore them).
9 - 10 MAX wich i dont think still acceptable EUV not happening.

It's unrealalistic to expect what AMD are offering this year, applies to a product released next year, they aren't nVidia selling console makers products already out of date. Didn't pro and X both have GPU with more advanced features than were available at the time in AMDs retail market?

It's reasonable to expect both consoles have as a minimum something on par on a technical level to RDNA+, bearing in mind this will probably be release July 2020 in the PC space. AMD even call the next iteration of RDNA/NAVI "Next Gen", do they need to spell it out more?

Oh, and conisidentally, "next gen" is 7nm EUV.

FYI, I just made all this up, but there is more evidence here than in any Gonzalo theory.

 

[xPikYx]

At the moment it's only speculation and leaks, what we know for sure is that both consoles will have the same base, Ryzen 2 CPUs and Navi GPUs, lightning speed loading time, and that Halo infinite trailer as first example of what a nex gen system can do (pretty disappointing so far though).... Ah and project Scarlett eats monsters for breakfast...

 

[ResilientBanana]

It's unrealalistic to expect what AMD are offering this year, applies to a product released next year, they aren't nVidia selling console makers products already out of date. Didn't pro and X both have GPU with more advanced features than were available at the time in AMDs retail market?

It's reasonable to expect both consoles have as a minimum something on par on a technical level to RDNA+, bearing in mind this will probably be release July 2020 in the PC space. AMD even call the next iteration of RDNA/NAVI "Next Gen", do they need to spell it out more?

Oh, and conisidentally, "next gen" is 7nm EUV.

FYI, I just made all this up, but there is more evidence here than in any Gonzalo theory.

It is definitely not unreasonable. No one is getting wine tier performance at beer budget prices.

 

[SonGoku]

It is definitely not unreasonable. No one is getting wine tier performance at beer budget prices.

Depends on thermals and die size really.
On 7nm DUV 9-10TF is perfectly doable, maybe even 11TF with a good cooling solution
On 7nm EUV 11-13TF is doable

 

[ArabianPrynce]

It is definitely not unreasonable. No one is getting wine tier performance at beer budget prices.

Well the 7nm chips are a game changer because they allow consoles to fit in powerful gpus within the small box. where before most good gpu were like 28 nm and such.

 

[sonomamashine]

So 11-12TF (safe bet) 13-14TF (best case) of RDNA2 floating point performance then
I use Navi architecture for my estimates

Ok so 11-14 Tf of RDNA 2 and 7nm EUV that started production last month on a 400-500$ box.
Good to know, cant wait.

 

[SonGoku]

Ok so 11-14 Tf of RDNA 2 and 7nm EUV that started production last month on a 400-500$ box.
Good to know, cant wait.

Well you did say just like mine
7nm euv spec was done in 2018, just in time for engineering samples
Console manufacturers have access to roadmaps of future designs, its not out of the ordinary to include architectures on par with current available at launch or better

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

I just got word that the PS5 is indeed releasing next holiday season!

 

[sonomamashine]

Well you did say just like mine
7nm euv spec was done in 2018, just in time for engineering samples
Console manufacturers have access to roadmaps of future designs, its not out of the ordinary to include architectures on par with current available at launch or better

Next gen is due 2020, they must be assembling parts as we speak, millions of consoles for a world wide launch, not to mention parts getting cheaper as times goes on, now you telling me : EUV & RDNA2 that AMD just pattend for RT gonna be ready in 2020 for millions of people at a console price, ok

 

[SonGoku]

: EUV & RDNA2 that AMD just pattend for RT gonna be ready in 2020 for millions of people at a console price, ok

Why not? 7nm euv already entered mass production, console chips will enter production q2-q3 2020
btw im not claiming 7nm euv is happening 100%, just pointing out is very likely and has some logic behind it.

Consoles already confirmed to have rt, no point arguing that

 

[sonomamashine]

Why not? 7nm euv already entered mass production, console chips will enter production q2-q3 2020
btw im not claiming 7nm euv is happening 100%, just pointing out is very likely and has some logic behind it.

Consoles already confirmed to have rt, no point arguing that

Shaders, not hardware

 

[xPikYx]

Speculation:

Nvidia GTX1080= 8.873 TFLOPS - released May 27th, 2016 - Launch Price 599 USD

Xbox One X = 6 TFLOPS - release date March 2017 - Launch Price 500 USD

Nvidia RTX2080 = 10.07 TFLOPS -Release Date Sep 20th, 2018 - Launch Price 699 USD

Generation gap between GTX1080 and RTX2080 is 2 years and 4 months and 1.3 TFLOPS
XboxOne X has been released in between the two on 2017
Google Stadia is 10.7 TFLOPS launching this fall (founders edition)
Scarlett/PS5 will be launched next year fall (prediction) @500 USD price point they could easily be between the 13/14 TFLOPS for the whole system CPU+GPU combined, probably more if the tag at higher price point (600 USD)

 

[SonGoku]

Update: Nvidia VP Says Next-Gen GPUs Will Be Made by TSMC and Samsung

Nvidia reportedly confirmed that it's partnered with Samsung to manufacture its Ampere GPU, which is expected to launch in 2020 using its 7nm EUVL process.

www.tomshardware.com

Nvidia confirms “substantial” Samsung 7nm graphics card production in 2020

Nvidia Korea has officially stated the use of Samsung's fabs and new 7nm EUV process for next generation cards. Possibly Ampere

www.pcgamesn.com

We already knew, but nice to have confirmation.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Update: Nvidia VP Says Next-Gen GPUs Will Be Made by TSMC and Samsung

Nvidia reportedly confirmed that it's partnered with Samsung to manufacture its Ampere GPU, which is expected to launch in 2020 using its 7nm EUVL process.

www.tomshardware.com

Nvidia confirms “substantial” Samsung 7nm graphics card production in 2020

Nvidia Korea has officially stated the use of Samsung's fabs and new 7nm EUV process for next generation cards. Possibly Ampere

www.pcgamesn.com

We already knew, but nice to have confirmation.

Nvidia is still logged into their smurf account methinks.

7nm competition? Eh, we can drop the price and enhance performance a bit and our 12nm will deal with it just fine.
Eventual demand for 7nm parts? Eh, Samsung is aggressively undercutting on pricing, may as well use that and raise our margin, even if TSMC is the foundry to beat right now.

RDNA made some aggressive steps upwards but Nvidia's actions are those of a company unconcerned by it. Hope AMD advances fast enough that we get serious Nvidia, as Intel must be right now.

 

[Fake]

Dunno if 7nm will make price drops... knowing Nvidia. Until there AMD will release +7nm I guess.

 

[TLZ]

Update: Nvidia VP Says Next-Gen GPUs Will Be Made by TSMC and Samsung

Nvidia reportedly confirmed that it's partnered with Samsung to manufacture its Ampere GPU, which is expected to launch in 2020 using its 7nm EUVL process.

www.tomshardware.com

Nvidia confirms “substantial” Samsung 7nm graphics card production in 2020

Nvidia Korea has officially stated the use of Samsung's fabs and new 7nm EUV process for next generation cards. Possibly Ampere

www.pcgamesn.com

We already knew, but nice to have confirmation.

Manufactured to release 2020. So why can't this be the same situation for next gen consoles?

 

[SonGoku]

Manufactured to release 2020. So why can't this be the same situation for next gen consoles?

It can
But as all things go, nothing is certain

 

[Imtjnotu]

Nvidia is still logged into their smurf account methinks.

7nm competition? Eh, we can drop the price and enhance performance a bit and our 12nm will deal with it just fine.
Eventual demand for 7nm parts? Eh, Samsung is aggressively undercutting on pricing, may as well use that and raise our margin, even if TSMC is the foundry to beat right now.

RDNA made some aggressive steps upwards but Nvidia's actions are those of a company unconcerned by it. Hope AMD advances fast enough that we get serious Nvidia, as Intel must be right now.

Samsung working with AMD and nvidia?!

 

[CyberPanda]

Samsung working with AMD and nvidia?!

Samsung works with everyone. It's a business, and they like money. Samsung even works with Apple and both still compete in the phone space. Shock and awe. These corporations aren't your buddies, and only care about the dollar bills in the end.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

A much more well thought report on that 21st May strategy meeting, from Yahoo Finance:
Sony starts talking PS5 strategy
Some key points

The most important way in which consoles create value is by providing users with an immersive gaming experience," Yoshida said. "

"We are just as dedicated to delivering that immersive experience on the next generation console we are currently developing. We plan to do that by further improving the computational power of the console, measured in TFLOPS (Tera Floating-point Operations Per Second), and by dramatically increasing the graphics rendering speed through the employment of a customized ultra-fast, broadband SSD."

In a recent Wall Street Journal report, Yoshida has attributed with saying that the upcoming console is a "niche product aimed at serious players." The audio recording suggests something different, as Yoshida was responding to a question about the memorandum of understanding with Microsoft for development of cloud gaming and artificial intelligence technologies, as well as the outlook of the importance of the game business to Sony in the future.

"We provide, as I said today, immersive business," Yoshida said. "This user experience is something we would like to continue to place an importance on. The console market, if you look at the game industry as a whole, is not a major market. It's a niche market, if you will. For core gamers, immersive experiences are something we would like to value. In this respect, and for the time being, consoles are something that bring about computing functionality to users and it's very important. On the other hand, technology will progress. As I said today, Remote Play and PlayStation Now—the streaming services—will be worked on in parallel."

And there is more stuff worth the read,... what do you guys take from this?... improve my computing power measured in Tflops if old

 

[sinnergy]

Like I said both will ignore TF numbers as the plague...

I bet both won't have Stadia TF numbers, doesn't matter Navi flops are better, the number is lower. So marketing wise you can't use it.

Max 10 TF. And that's stretching it ...

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Like I said both will ignore TF numbers as the plague...

I bet both won't have Stadia TF numbers, doesn't matter Navi flops are better, the number is lower. So marketing wise you can't use it.

Max 10 TF. And that's stretching it ...

Why avoid it when you're packing 14.2 Navi TF?