CrustyBritches
Gold Member
No problem. I disagree, but I'm willing to wait for further confirmation.
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Yeah, this selectiveness by the big navi, monster console crowd is very apparent. Those 1.8ghz/2ghz simply fit their narrative but the fact that benchmarks suggested 5700xt performance range is disregarded.
Gonzalo, Flute, Oberon leaks all point towards a GPU with 40CUs max.
Gonzalo, Flute, Oberon leaks all point towards a GPU with 40CUs max.
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Fake
Member
It's the key to keep the expectations in check.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Agreed. 20k+ is either 40CU with Ryzen 5 1600 CPU, or 36CU with Ryzen 5 2600. A 60CU+ chip would be scoring at minimum 23K/24K even with lowly Ryzen 1000/2000 6-core CPU.
My timeline:
-Gonzalo was in QS(Qualification) in April.
-OQA PCB Leak comes in May
-Apisak sees Gonzalo scores without reporting them June 10, says it may be the dev kit, along with another Gonzalo chip in ES2 with scores in the group
-Apisak releases Gonzalo score and PS4 score June 25
-Flute Userbenchmark score with OPN and "Ariel pci-id" comes in July
-Codemasters has "some" in the office tweet is in August
All the while we've been told it's too early, but even *EDIT* small(more independent is better term, unlike Sony 1st party, EA, and Ubisoft). devs like Codemasters have had the "V" kits for months. By the Neo timeline, they already have final spec kits.
My interest in Gonzalo/Oberon/Flute is waning. New curiosity is where is Scarlett and what is Arden? MS tests in PIX, so 3DMark and Userbenchmark scores aren't to be expected. PCI-id maybe.
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ANIMAL1975
Member
You can say the exact same thing for the 8/9tf navy, mid-range shity console crowd... Just switch the narrative selectiveness, and the power/performance leaks disregard.
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FrostyJ93
Member
Unlike you and some people, I realize Xbox has other customers besides gaffers and era people. Us "core gamers" arent the center of everything.
pawel86ck
Banned
Here's your tasty beef
.
Jokes aside until sony will provide exact details about PS5 specs I think Gonzalo score is the most reasonable performance espectation for now
Negotiator
Banned
And yet, nobody has explained why would Sony put the effort to run off-the-shelf Windows on a semi-custom APU. They're not teenagers trying to show off their e-peen. Where's the profit in doing that?
For reference, the Linux Kernel (which is open source, unlike Windows) needs 5000 code line changes to run on OG PS4:
media.ccc.de
Even OG XB1 is not a "bog standard PC":
Now you know why MS paid 3 billion $$$ to AMD, regardless of the outcome this gen (it's not AMD fault). They don't buy off-the-shelf PC parts from Amazon/Newegg, slap them all together and call it a day.
I bet most people are not going to dedicate 2 hours to watch these videos. They are very informative and they come from people who know what they're talking about, not random internet strangers that nobody knows who's "feeding" them and why (whether they have an astroturfing/shilling agenda or not, don't expect them to admit it).
But sure, keep pushing the "modern consoles are 100% PCs, easy peasy x86 programming" narrative if that makes your day.
Only Sony and MS know the TF target they have set and it has been set long time ago by having access to various tech-related roadmaps. For example, XB1X/Scorpio R&D started back in 2012 (1 year before OG XB1 was released) according to MS. It goes without saying they had access to TSMC's 16nm FinFET roadmaps, but their R&D plans couldn't materialize in 2013, since that tech didn't exist back then.
How they're gonna hit that target (whether it's 10 or 12 or 14TF) is totally up to them (less CUs/higher clocks or more CUs/lower clocks).
For reference, the Linux Kernel (which is open source, unlike Windows) needs 5000 code line changes to run on OG PS4:
Console Hacking 2016
Last year, we demonstrated Linux running on the PS4 in a lightning talk - presented on the PS4 itself. But how did we do it? In a departu...
media.ccc.de
Even OG XB1 is not a "bog standard PC":
Now you know why MS paid 3 billion $$$ to AMD, regardless of the outcome this gen (it's not AMD fault). They don't buy off-the-shelf PC parts from Amazon/Newegg, slap them all together and call it a day.
I bet most people are not going to dedicate 2 hours to watch these videos. They are very informative and they come from people who know what they're talking about, not random internet strangers that nobody knows who's "feeding" them and why (whether they have an astroturfing/shilling agenda or not, don't expect them to admit it).
But sure, keep pushing the "modern consoles are 100% PCs, easy peasy x86 programming" narrative if that makes your day.
Only Sony and MS know the TF target they have set and it has been set long time ago by having access to various tech-related roadmaps. For example, XB1X/Scorpio R&D started back in 2012 (1 year before OG XB1 was released) according to MS. It goes without saying they had access to TSMC's 16nm FinFET roadmaps, but their R&D plans couldn't materialize in 2013, since that tech didn't exist back then.
How they're gonna hit that target (whether it's 10 or 12 or 14TF) is totally up to them (less CUs/higher clocks or more CUs/lower clocks).
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The thing is those Komachi leaks and Wired articles are the only solid data we have. For Scarlett we only have that pcb shot from e3. Everything else so far has been just rumors - could be made up crap. You are really naive if you take for granted what majority of journos say. The fact that these journos give only vague estimates like "double digits, aiming x or y" instead of real bombs is a big red flag.
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Lunatic_Gamer
Member
Fresh take on an old rumor. Nice if true.
bitbydeath
Member
Well we also have the official word from Microsoft and Sony which apparently isn't good enough either.
pawel86ck
Banned
How many Navi TF's is needed in order to match 2080, and 2080ti respectively?
Fake
Member
Who need oficial info anyway? /s
Negotiator
Banned
"Massive thermal problems" sounds like RRODv2. Hopefully they'll sort it out.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
14 tflops navi should be equivalent to a rtx 2080 super. 12 tflops navi should be equivalent to a rtx 2080.
not sure about 2080ti. its nearly a 17 tflops card when clocks are at 1.9 ghz which they usually are during gameplay. (dont look at their advertised tflops, they use base clocks of 1.5 ghz that the gpu always exceeds during gameplay). its a 68 cu card. i would think a 20 tflops amd gpu will be needed to beat it. i dont know how ms can even get an 70+ cu in their console. but amd might have something out for like $1,200 to compete with the rtx 2080 ti.
What official word are you talking about besides Wired articles and Microsoft's E3 conference? Where are the hardware details and numbers?
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bitbydeath
Member
Ray-Tracing flies in the face of those rumours that there is no more changes to hardware since the hardware that performs it was only just certified.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Now the real question is: how those cards are optimized in their respective box? Same question for the rest of the hardware.
You have 2 hours folks.
You have 2 hours folks.
ResilientBanana
Member
Now we're back up there at the 2080 and 2080 TI? Really guys?
Lort
Banned
25% performance of xbox over playstation seems unlikely... if this is "kinda" true id say more likely 18%
2080 is about 10 tf ... and 2080 ti about 12.5
so maybe 11.5 tf for ps5 and 13.5 for xbox ... or 10 and 12? I voted for 11 for the poll... we should have another vote to choose for each platform.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
By now Phil Spencer and Co would have got wind that sony is aiming for a beast( they probably have more info on PS5 then we do, as they have actual relationships with 3rd parties so they should be able to deduct a more full picture then we can).
Obviously when building a console that is going to be manufactured and sold in the millions there will be things they can't change, but after watching the video below (6min in), I think they will do there damdest to have some power advantage, weather it be cpu, ram or gpu, I don't think the xbox team will allow the ps5 to be more powerfull across the board.
6 min in
Obviously when building a console that is going to be manufactured and sold in the millions there will be things they can't change, but after watching the video below (6min in), I think they will do there damdest to have some power advantage, weather it be cpu, ram or gpu, I don't think the xbox team will allow the ps5 to be more powerfull across the board.
6 min in
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The only issue with this is that we have got the opposite info from insider klee and Andrew Reiner.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Prepare for the meltdown. It's like we hear the same mantra every few days. As much as Microsoft may want the power advantage so does Sony and in the end many other things get taken into account so its not tht cut and dry as "oh we want the power advantage". At this point based off most rumors its all pointing to Sony being the one with the advantage but we will see.
llien
Banned
I still don't see how "AMD registered something with a cryptic name that hardly tells anything on Korean site well within expected timeline for big and powerful GPU expected next year" translates into "Sony will absolutely use this chip".
llien
Banned
wcc is a shithole that had been caught retro-editing articles, so, doh.
Lort
Banned
Microsoft has more money, better cooling, a richer target demographic and more competitive incentive to release a faster console.
Andrew was talking about the dev kits .. not final.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yeah things are pointing to Sony, but you think Ms is just going lay there and take it.
I don't think you heard it from the horses mouth that Phil and team xbox want to be the most powerful, does Sony? Well we don't know because they have not said anything regarding this.
I personally think PS5 will have a slight gpu advantage and scarlett will have a slight CPU advantage where it will equal itself out overall. Some ps5 games might get a frame or 2 and some scarlett games will get a frame or 2.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Not that it changes your point but wasn't Andrew talking about target specs?
Which can change anyway, xbox ones target specs were 1.2tflops before the up clock and the ps4 was a 4gb system.
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bitbydeath
Member
1. There currently isn't an AMD chip capable of running RT.
2. The 5800 arriving next year will run RT.
3. The registered chip has the same Navi code and AMD haven't mentioned any other Navis in RDNA1 coming.
4. Sony and MS will use this chip as they've already announced RT.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I stopped reading them after I noticed them biting info from other sites/twitter/etc without citing or crediting the source.
bhunachicken
Member
3D Mark Firestrike:
Gonzalo: 20,000+ (according to rumours on NeoGAF)
1080 TI: 23,000 - https://www.3dmark.com/fs/12155032
2080 TI: 33,000 - https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16523492
Insane Metal
Member
Nah.
Aceofspades
Banned
The money talk again Lol. Also richer target demographic? WTF is that!
Not from here OT forum. Short story drinking and arguing politics.
I don't think MS has been confident at all. Every thing points to then knowing they are out gunned again. We know their PR speak when they are winning and scarlet has had 0 of that. They were styling and profiling when they knew project scorpio was ahead. This time we are seeing similar talk we saw when xbox one launched. There is not any real sources that point to scarlet being more powerful. We had many legitimate reports from E3 and after the PS5 is about 10% more powerful.
FrostyJ93
Member
10% which is so minimal it doesn't matter.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Gotcha, I thought OT meant original topic.
TLZ
Banned
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
This is not a "NeoGAF" rumor. It's an actual data mine by Apisak from the chip "99% confirmed to be the silicon in PS5" by Digital Foundry.
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Mass Shift
Member
Sony BEFORE the Project Scorpio announcement
Sony AFTER the Project Scorpio announcement
There are reasons why you don't do the above, because when you play your hand too early you run the risk of overplaying it.
It's not a lack of confidence. It's just smart strategy to wait until you know for sure.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Sony BEFORE the Project Scorpio announcement
Sony AFTER the Project Scorpio announcement
There are reasons why you don't do the above, because when you play your hand too early you run the risk of overplaying it.
It's not a lack of confidence. It's just smart strategy to wait until you know for sure.
I don't get what your showing? It's all PR and the above was showing the reality of things at the moment. Companies play off their advantages all the time and their messaging changes as time goes on, Xbox x came out over a year later so for tht year and change tht PR was right, probably worked and eventually changed when it was no longer true. Sony didn't overplay anything but were stating facts at the time. Not to mention almost everyone knew before the announcement (definitely Sony) tht Microsoft was coming with their own mid gen refresh and thy still were pushing the power narrative bcus it was true at tht moment.
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Lone Wolf
Member
What makes this rumor any more or less valid than the other?3D Mark Firestrike:
Gonzalo: 20,000+ (according to rumours on NeoGAF)
1080 TI: 23,000 - https://www.3dmark.com/fs/12155032
2080 TI: 33,000 - https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16523492
Denis Colovic
Member
A simple speculation : Xbox Scarlet will have mouse and keyboard support for all games...Well or we will see this on the PS5 . Or on both? This would be amazing. Well, a Man can dream.
Lort
Banned
I thought it was "from what hed hard from devs" ... but i may be wrong ... and i dont really know. ( of course)
Physiognomonics
Member
Will have ? Playstation has mouse and keyboard support (even bluetooth) since PS3. It's up to the developers. For instance FF14 has mouse and keyboard support since its release on PS4.
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Mass Shift
Member
I'll say it again. It's just smarter to be patient and let things play out before revealing your hand. Especially when it's a game of numbers and perhaps even irrelevant margins.
Negotiator
Banned
Consoles (ALL of them!) need to make gyroscope aiming a standard.
Just imagine nailing headshots on Uncharted or Halo... how cool would that be?
If you've played Uncharted Golden Abyss on Vita, you probably know what I'm talking about. It's not a "gimmick", it's the most intuitive way to aim with a console.
Just imagine nailing headshots on Uncharted or Halo... how cool would that be?
If you've played Uncharted Golden Abyss on Vita, you probably know what I'm talking about. It's not a "gimmick", it's the most intuitive way to aim with a console.
Denis Colovic
Member
Well I knew that few games do support M&K but still its only a small selection of games. It would be great if on both consoles we would actually see more games with mouse and keyboard support. It would be cool if both Sony and Microsoft encourage studios and publishers to also ship their games with M&K support. Since I have the feeling that the next gen. of consoles will be a lot about cross platform multiplayer features I would just love to see more M&K action.
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