Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Things have been said that didn't age well:

- PS5 won't have HW RT, Sony can't afford it.
- XSX gonna be More expensive & way more powerful.
- PS5 won't have a good launch line up.
- PS5 is gonna be 9.2tf but cheaper & Weak.

The results of are:

- Mark Cerny came out & blow their foreheads by confirming HW RT.

- Phil Spencer himself came out & said he wanna much the ps5 in price and POWER.

- Bluepoint came out and said they're proud to set a new benchmark for next gen in terms of visuals and graphics. Guerrilla games already working on multiple projects. God fall already been confirmed to be a ps5 exclusive (on PC as well)

- Now guys are you still believe in PS5 being 9.2tf??

Why am I saying this?? Because people don't seem to learn their lessons. If you wanna analyze something then put your biases away so you can analyze things correctly or you will end up being like a clown.
 
Weeks ago: Sony is going for a $399 console and that's why it's under-powered compared to the Xbox Series X.

Now: Sony is still figuring out the price point and they're scared to reveal their console because of the Xbox Series X.
(Though, I believe it was stated that this report was in fact inaccurate.)


People are bashing insiders for saying Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 are going to have very similar specs, but when they're flip-flopping when it comes to their own reports, people still find them credible? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Weeks ago: Sony is going for a $399 console and that's why it's under-powered compared to the Xbox Series X.

Now: Sony is still figuring out the price point and they're scared to reveal their console because of the Xbox Series X.
(Though, I believe it was stated that this report was in fact inaccurate.)


People are bashing insiders for saying Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 are going to have very similar specs, but when they're flip-flopping when it comes to their own reports, people still find them credible? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

im pretty sure ms and sony know the specs of both consoles at this point. if 3rd party devs know, they know.
 
but if we think well -navi 10 does not have ray tracing well then ps5 does not have -navi 10 enough !!!! it is not 40 cu but something more. we will see at the gdc the demo which consol will be later
 
No, just answered to this nonsense post from James Sawyer
Looks like Sony missed 2019 release date with Navi 10. Probably to TSMC low yield rate back in april.



Max 1,8GHZ for 36-40cus
Max 1700MHZ for +50cus

XSX 1700MHZ 56 CUs 12.2TF
PS5 unknown GPU 1700-1800MHZ
why didnt you answer the ridiculous posts here claiming the ps5 is 36cu and 2.0 ghz since last year after the github leaks?

James is talking about a console in 2020 which will likely be on 7nm+ or 7np based on 2nd gen rdna architecture with 15-20% arch improvements.

your max is 1.8ghz for this navi 10 gpu which you yourself showed averages 215w during gameplay.
 
We have been talking about the specifications for almost 1000 pages and here you have a key phrase.

(Thanks about the translation)

Sounds like Sony specs are "irrelevant".

I really don't know how to interpret the specifications as "irrelevant" I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing in this case ...I am inclined to think that they are good but there may be disappointments after so much secrecy because the numbers are not so much.
 
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We have been talking about the specifications for almost 1000 pages and here you have a key phrase.



I really don't know how to interpret the specifications as "irrelevant" I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing in this case ...I am inclined to think that they are good but there may be disappointments after so much secrecy because the numbers are not so much.

Lol here you go chemical 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️ bro you really think Sony is going to let its fans down and with all the industry insiders saying it's beast lol 😂 😂 😂 smh

This dudes English isn't his first language don't interpret what's not really there. He's saying tht Sony specs is irrelevant or not the reason for their lack of or for announcements thy may or may not give.
 
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He kept his word.

3rd party Devs dont know, Nvidia knows.


X1OFVTI.gif
 
What do you mean by 'irrelevant'? Is it in the sense they are not the cause for Sony's secrecy?
"irrelevant" means that in the nextgen the TF war will only have relevance in marketing, but little impact on practice. There will be other aspects that will make a difference in practice.
 
No new info sadly, but I do find this thread very entertaining.


Might as well spam this video till we do hear something new.

 
L


Lol here you go chemical 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️ bro you really think Sony is going to let its fans down and with all the industry insiders saying it's beast lol 😂 😂 😂 smh

This dudes English isn't his first la Guage don't interpret what's not really there. He's saying tht Sony specs is irrelevant or not the reason for their lack of or for announcements thy mayl or may not give.


"irrelevant" means that in the nextgen the TF war will only have relevance in marketing, but little impact on practice. There will be other aspects that will make a difference in practice.

Thank you very much to both of you.
 
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"irrelevant" means that in the nextgen the TF war will only have relevance in marketing, but little impact on practice. There will be other aspects that will make a difference in practice.

With due respect this is BS.. TF do absolutely matter... with this said I have no doubt both will be well served in this respect so will not be the differentiator coming next gen...
 
Looking a the V shaped design – which is iconic like the launch ps1, ps2, p3 designs (IMHO), so possibly the real shape – it would suggest cooling symmetry beyond cooling symmetrical memory layout.

I'm now thinking the Github leak is real for PS5, but for Sony to again play to their EE design strengths (like Ps2, PS3 and Ps4) they are going to use Dual Oberon chips and downclock at whatever level they can, to beat MS using a single RDNA2 XsX chip (with them rebinning defects as XsS).

A dual chip setup for PS5 would allow them to hit much higher performance – like their PS2 Dual coprocessor design and intended PS3 dual Cell processor design. They would also maximize their waffer yield and could aim lower power and quieter if downclocking heavily to hit 7TF from each. A solution like this might also explain why someone mentioned they are still negotiating price with AMD, and why general consensus of their SSD solution being faster and them being better on the RT side of things, and suggestions they might be above RTX 2080 TI. I know it is wishful thinking , but (IMHO) Sony's real strength is how they configure the items available and how many they use – like the GDDR5 bandwidth on PS4. I resigned to them not having a special super secret APU design, as re-living the risks of a cutting edge Cell solution (even when they had Toshiba and IBM expertise partnering) isn't something I think they'd risk, now, meaning they'd automatically be behind trillion dollar MS on what they can afford to buy from AMD if going single chip.

I also think the 3D audio chip inside the APU is an AMD version of the Cell processor, making BC completely doable in hardware, but that's more wishful thinking by me, I suspect
You do realize that for a dual Oberon setup they would need to not only spend $200 per console on the APUs themselves but also double the memory amount, right? So if they intend to use 20 GB total (16 GB GDDR6, 4 GB DDR4 for OS) they would need 36 GB of RAM. Which is also doubling the RAM cost pretty much, from around $60 to $120. That console you have in mind would cost upwards of $699. It would consume around 350 Watt. Just so you know what a dual Oberon design means.
Obviously, it is still wishful thinking on my behalf, and your points certainly make my proposed solution less likely, meaning Sony are going single chip at 9TF at $349/£350, but needing a big give away, like a pair of Sony WF-100XM3 wireless buds free with the system :), so the new Dualshock 5 provides storage/charging for the buds - replacement DS5 without buds at DS4 price, replacement with buds $100/£100 more.

Circling back to my wishful thinking - to reply to your interesting points. If Sony wanted to build a dual Oberon PS5, I don't think the engineering problems of power draw or designing a custom memory control (or ring bus) to give unified access to the 16GB of GDDR6 would be the reason; even if it meant they only used 8GB per chip – because that's ample for (diminishing returns) rasterization graphics at 4k/8k on a console with an SSD, and I'd hazard a guess that because RT is a more atomic process, it could handle much bigger latencies in addressing part of the 8GB on another APU - across an external bus - and so would see very little loss in efficiency when they worked in tandem for RT which is surely the future to sell graphics.

I suspect even without the additional memory requirement, cost would still be the biggest short term issue and massively favours your argument. However, the alternative for Sony being less performance than the XsX, and being undercut on price by the XsS, seems more risky (IMHO).

Spending big for awhile on a PS5 launch probably isn't the same risky situation for Sony as launching an expensive, complex, low yield Cell based PS3, a year behind the competition who got off to a flyer. I know it is all still wishful thinking, but it is certainly the way I would have gone if in Mark Cerny's shoes.
 
The one detail to me that I honestly think people still haven't fully grasped is the form factor of Xbox Series X and the implications of what that truly means compared to what Xbox Series X would have otherwise been as a console had Microsoft not gone with that design, but instead a more traditional console design.

Why would they do such a thing?

It isn't for show. It's strictly due to power draw reasons and heat reasons. If there won't be a meaningful difference in power or heat required for the type of hardware they intend to put in the box, then there would be no reason at all to even bother with the form factor they did for the Series X.

Translation: the GPU would be weaker, more power limited. The GPU would simply not be allowed to draw the kind of power that it would need to draw to achieve the type of performance it is capable of reaching in games.

I have no idea what the hell the form factor for PS5 will be, nor the type of cooling they'll be using. However, unless they have decided to make similar types of decisions on their console's form factor and cooling design as Microsoft has, or are somehow achieving similar or better results in power consumption and cooling with their own unique solution, the likelihood they will possess a GPU as powerful, or as close as some would prefer them to be, as what's inside Xbox Series X, is really not good.


Now I (and you) know: the next-gen Xbox previously known as Project Scarlett is officially called Xbox Series X, and it is, in no uncertain terms, a monolith. "We wanted to design a console where the form was driven by the function," said Spencer. "And the function--as I said--was to really play the highest power, most immersive games possible."

Maximum power draw on an xbox one x enhanced title such as Gears of War 4 is 172W compared to 107W on the original Xbox One. In the Digital Foundry article that Phil Spencer himself promoted, as if they hit the nail on the head, suggests Xbox Series X could nearly double the Xbox One X's 172W, if not outright go beyond 300W of power draw while gaming. Again, I go back to Phil's statement about "highest power."


And that's almost certainly why the Xbox Series X is so large. I'm not expecting a huge amount of difference in the size of the mainboard or the components attached to it when stacked up against Xbox One X. What I am expecting is a very significant increase in power consumption, plus a big upgrade in the cooling solution in order to manage some pretty challenging thermals. Based on the kind of power consumption seen on AMD's latest PC GPUs based on the same technologies, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Xbox Series X pulling twice the power of the Xbox One X.


2 times 172W puts us squarely in the power draw territory of the most powerful PC GPUs available on the market. Even at a less aggressive 74% increase in power draw over xbox one X, that still puts us at exactly 300W of power draw. Below Digital Foundry suggests Microsoft is likely achieving this more so with clock speeds that are notably higher than their PC counterparts, but this was before we knew just how much larger the chip was, meaning Microsoft could likely go with roughly the same clock speed as what the equivalent card would have on PC.

It would also suggest frequencies that are appreciably higher than those seen in AMD's Navi-based GPUs - which reverses the situation with the current-gen machines, which are typically underclocked compared to equivalent PC parts. Increasing both area and frequency inevitably pushes up power consumption way beyond anything we've seen in a home console. Our measurements for the first-gen PlayStation 3 currently top the power consumption charts at 209W during gameplay. Based on what we know of Navi GPUs from the existing, seemingly less capable Radeon RX 5700-series, not to mention the size of the Series X casing, I wouldn't be surprised to see the new console move beyond 300W. With that in mind, assurances from Microsoft that the machine has a similar acoustic profile to Xbox One X is very, very welcome.

GitHub leaks suggests Microsoft's chip is just plain larger than even what DF believed. They were thinking something like 48 at a higher clock speed, but it seems Xbox Series X may be 56CUs at a lower clock.

And on the github leak, if you go back to stories like this from November 1st of last year and you do a little digging into their links to see just who that reddit leaker is tomshardware is suggesting previously found AMD's upcoming Renoir APU, and who again appears to have found new AMD Navi GPUs, you will see that it's rogame, the same exact individual who found and posted the PS5 and Xbox Series X driver leaks.





This is why I think conspiracy theories that what was listed in those official AMD driver leaks and tests, is some plot or conspiracy by a bunch of zealous xbox fans to make PS5 look weak (it isn't by a longshot even at 9.2TF) is tinfoil hat territory and just plain batshit insane. I don't think believing that github leak, which was clearly real and without full context, makes you a fanboy or someone who hopes for the worst with ps5. PS5 wouldn't be a weak console if those numbers were true and the rumored specs for Xbox Series X are true. Microsoft just had different performance goals. That doesn't make PS5's performance goal insufficient for unbelievable looking next gen titles.

When information looks that solid and everything, including the history and reputation of the person who unearthed it for all to see, is as good as it is, I would instead argue you're simply being a realist if you choose to buy that over what forum insiders have said. And if we're being honest, their track record has been atrocious from the very instant Microsoft revealed Xbox Series X. At the same time, nothing is wrong with hoping it's wrong either. It's just when we get into the conspiracy theories and personal attacks over people who believe it to be real that we basically go off the rails. Every piece of information from the github leak can be all true even while as a gamer your natural instincts are to still wish for even more power to be packed into each console since, the more we get, the better it is for us all whether you prefer xbox or playstation.
 
Do you guys think the next gen might be able to pull off 4K 120fps?

Also do you guys think that most devs are going to enable ray tracing and take the performance hit? Maybe if they disable ray tracing? Ray tracing is cool, but I personally don't feel like it's worth the 30~35% hit.
Just like 8k, you need to buy new equipment to take advantage of 120fps. I don't see them used much till the middle of next gen.
 
Do you guys think the next gen might be able to pull off 4K 120fps?

Also do you guys think that most devs are going to enable ray tracing and take the performance hit? Maybe if they disable ray tracing? Ray tracing is cool, but I personally don't feel like it's worth the 30~35% hit.

No .. 4k with 60fps is the target , and you dont need 120fps !! where are you going with that ?!
about RT big yes .. you will see games just showing off with RT while the game is shit
 
I truly don't think people understand just how amazing Halo looked at E3. It was running at 60fps, the quality of the textures on the pilot's clothing were incredible. The geometry on the character and in the surrounding environment looked excellent. And we have to keep in mind what type of game Halo is. This game also appears more open this time around. That game was far more impressive than people realize. I think when we get the first gameplay a lot of people are going to be absolutely blown away when they see how the game's art style comes together with what 343 is doing technically with the engine on Xbox Series X.
Yeah it looked amazing to me. I don't even play on XBox right now and it made me excited for all console gaming moving foward.
 
"irrelevant" means that in the nextgen the TF war will only have relevance in marketing, but little impact on practice. There will be other aspects that will make a difference in practice.

Been saying this for a while. Some fanatics want their pathetic and irrelevant bullet point though.
 
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Can we get a roundup of what are the rumored PS5 games lineup is supposed to be; or the next gen lineup in general? I feel like I'm getting lost with it all.

Demon Souls Remastered
Horizon Zero Dawn 2
PS AllStars Battle Royal 2
SOCOM II Remaster
SpiderMan 2
TLOU Part 2 Remastered

Is a new Splinter Cell still supposed to happen?
A new Sci-Fi IP from Naughty Dog, that Savage Starlight IP hinted at in TLOU perhaps?
 
Yeah it looked amazing to me. I don't even play on XBox right now and it made me excited for all console gaming moving foward.

Agreed. I will admit, though, cause I've at times had doubts myself. Halo Infinite's technical impressiveness is easy to glance over and dismiss till you see that thing at a full 4K running on your HDTV. Hell, we haven't even seen it running with HDR active yet! At least I haven't, but it's a night and day visual difference on my 4KTV at 4K. And this is youtube no less. I don't even have a high quality direct feed.
 
I believe there will be a good handful of HDMI 2.1 4K displays with 120Hz input come hardware launch.
WindyThirstyAmericanriverotter-small.gif


if your screen support 60hz then it doesn't matter if you go higher than 60fps its almost the same but if its 144hz then having more than 60fps is worth the shot .. but in general 60fps is what you need to enjoy a game its like the golden number ..
 
Do you guys think the next gen might be able to pull off 4K 120fps?

Also do you guys think that most devs are going to enable ray tracing and take the performance hit? Maybe if they disable ray tracing? Ray tracing is cool, but I personally don't feel like it's worth the 30~35% hit.
4k120fps what kind of connections supports that? TV? Monitor? 🤔
 
Been saying this for a while. Some fanatics want their pathetic and irrelevant bullet point though.

It's technically never an irrelevant thing, though. It still gives you a rough idea of where performance ultimately lies. Just because there are other very important factors, such as memory bandwidth, total ram, CPU, SSD, does not change the level of importance of the raw performance level of the most important piece in these new consoles, which is always the GPU because they're responsible for producing much of what we see happening visually in our games.
 
4k120fps what kind of connections supports that? TV? Monitor? 🤔

HDMI 2.1
both next gen systems use that.
and new Samsung TVs will have it this year.

that being said, I hope these systems have a function to change output resolutions on the fly (basically what the PS3 did when games only supported 720p output signals)
because I only have an HDMI 2.0 TV, but it supports 1440p120... and I bet the 120fps games we will see, 99% of them will not run at 4k120 but below that... and I don't wanna manually change output resolutions in the console menus all the time lol.
 
Can we get a roundup of what are the rumored PS5 games lineup is supposed to be; or the next gen lineup in general? I feel like I'm getting lost with it all.

Demon Souls Remastered
Horizon Zero Dawn 2
PS AllStars Battle Royal 2
SOCOM II Remaster
SpiderMan 2
TLOU Part 2 Remastered

Is a new Splinter Cell still supposed to happen?
A new Sci-Fi IP from Naughty Dog, that Savage Starlight IP hinted at in TLOU perhaps?

PS5
Ghosts of Tsushima
TLoU2
GodFall
Blupoint game ?

Multi
Assassins Creed
NBA2K21

XseX
Halo
BT
Rare Game
FZ?
 
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