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[M1chl]

To simplify it, XSX audio will be much, much better than this current gen, but it's the baseline of audio raytracing that would make the difference in both. Sony went the extra mile and you can even hear every exact droplet of rain that would exceed hundreds of sound sources that has been NEVER heard of before, with Dolby Atmos being the pinnacle of sound tech only capable of 32 sources. The Tempest 3D Audio engine could produce up to 5,000 sound sources! That makes it even future-proof.

New engines should utilize that and would probably built in new, easier implementation for sound in newer engines to fully produce direction, reflection, distance of the sound sources.

Could you even get what it's like to hear every droplet of rain means for immersion? If Microsoft wants to keep up they need to use more GPU power to deliver that, no shortcuts.

Oh shit really? Because it sounds really fucking good for what it is then.

Well, but it seems, like it's not accurate: https://developer.dolby.com/blog/spatial-audio-and-the-ps5/


But it's amazing, with ORI it sounds so good. Hopefully more games are going to take advantage of these new 3D processes.


Sorry already mentioned...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Oh shit really? Because it sounds really fucking good for what it is then.

Well, but it seems, like it's not accurate: https://developer.dolby.com/blog/spatial-audio-and-the-ps5/

But it's amazing, with ORI it sounds so good. Hopefully more games are going to take advantage of these new 3D processes.

Well, Xbox will sound way, way more better in XSX than current gen. Sony is just going into a new level of amazingness that is way better than XSX, doesn't mean XSX will be shit, but it'll be less detailed, less awesome.

Sony's Tempest supports 5,000, but they'll go for hundreds for starter, Dolby Atmos might be capable of hundreds, but in bad quality as they admit that:

Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects?

No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects.

That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.

Developers have also told us that avoiding the horizontal "bed" for an all-object mix is an unnecessarily time-consuming and labor-intensive effort. So far, developers are creating next-generation mixes by blending bed audio and object audio. More is good, but more may not necessarily be "better."

The Project Acoustics is already way better than current gen, but if you wanna do the extensive audio processing the PS5 offers you would hurt XSX performance budget (GPU required):

 

[Games Dean]

MS main focus is gamepass, they're going to have smaller games like gears tactics/bleeding edge/grounded and at least one big release every year.
For me it was never about the quantity of releases but the quality. So far nothing shows that will change, we'll see in the next couple of months.

I am actually very interested to see what comes from The Initiative team. It seems they have grand ambitions and they've sourced a ton of talented and experienced developers from other studios (including some of Playstation's). I think that game will reach the standard that we've come to expect from Playstation. But otherwise I agree, I don't care for how they want to pump out smaller titles quarterly. That's just not my cup of tea.

I believe that to be the case for sure. But there's also this:

Audio and Acoustics Research Group - Microsoft Research

The Audio and Acoustics group conducts research in audio processing and speech enhancement, 3D audio perception and technologies, devices for audio capture and rendering, array processing, information extraction from audio signals.

www.microsoft.com

As a whole, Sony's audio advancements and capabilities FAR outstretch Microsoft's. Period.

 

[M1chl]

Well, Xbox will sound way, way more better in XSX than current gen. Sony is just going into a new level of amazingness that is way better than XSX, doesn't mean XSX will be shit, but it'll be less detailed, less awesome.

Sony's Tempest supports 5,000, but they'll go for hundreds for starter, Dolby Atmos might be capable of hundreds, but in bad quality as they admit that:

Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects?

No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects.

That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.

Developers have also told us that avoiding the horizontal "bed" for an all-object mix is an unnecessarily time-consuming and labor-intensive effort. So far, developers are creating next-generation mixes by blending bed audio and object audio. More is good, but more may not necessarily be "better."

The Project Acoustics is already way better than current gen, but if you wanna do the extensive audio processing the PS5 offers you would hurt XSX performance budget (GPU required):

I've heard, that Project Accoustic is offline solution or at least how it models the soundscape. It's not dynamic, so if you would have destructible space it would not work. Anyway, MS told that they have some custom circuitry also, but we do not know how much...how to put it....advance. But I have no doubt that Sony is going to be leading in this regard, but truth to be told, proper equipment even in a form of high-end stereo cans is going to be out of mainstream budget for these type of things.

As a whole, Sony's audio advancements and capabilities FAR outstretch Microsoft's. Period.

We still don't know how far and what difference does it make.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I am actually very interested to see what comes from The Initiative team. It seems they have grand ambitions and they've sourced a ton of talented and experienced developers from other studios (including some of Playstation's). I think that game will reach the standard that we've come to expect from Playstation. But otherwise I agree, I don't care for how they want to pump out smaller titles quarterly. That's just not my cup of tea.



As a whole, Sony's audio advancements and capabilities FAR outstretch Microsoft's. Period.

Possibly, however, it's yet to be proven. We shall see.

Well, Xbox will sound way, way more better in XSX than current gen. Sony is just going into a new level of amazingness that is way better than XSX, doesn't mean XSX will be shit, but it'll be less detailed, less awesome.

Sony's Tempest supports 5,000, but they'll go for hundreds for starter, Dolby Atmos might be capable of hundreds, but in bad quality as they admit that:

Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects?

No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects.

That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.

Developers have also told us that avoiding the horizontal "bed" for an all-object mix is an unnecessarily time-consuming and labor-intensive effort. So far, developers are creating next-generation mixes by blending bed audio and object audio. More is good, but more may not necessarily be "better."

The Project Acoustics is already way better than current gen, but if you wanna do the extensive audio processing the PS5 offers you would hurt XSX performance budget (GPU required):

Microsoft isn't using Atmos for their custom solution. So using quotes from Dolby isn't wise.

 

[Games Dean]

We still don't know how far and what difference does it make.

I'm not talking about Project Acoustics or Tempest Engine. I'm talking about the companies as a whole, as the person I quoted was. Way to early to definitively state which console's audio solution will be superior but I'd lean Sony for now.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Well, Xbox will sound way, way more better in XSX than current gen. Sony is just going into a new level of amazingness that is way better than XSX, doesn't mean XSX will be shit, but it'll be less detailed, less awesome.

Sony's Tempest supports 5,000, but they'll go for hundreds for starter, Dolby Atmos might be capable of hundreds, but in bad quality as they admit that:

Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects?

No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects.

That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.

Developers have also told us that avoiding the horizontal "bed" for an all-object mix is an unnecessarily time-consuming and labor-intensive effort. So far, developers are creating next-generation mixes by blending bed audio and object audio. More is good, but more may not necessarily be "better."

The Project Acoustics is already way better than current gen, but if you wanna do the extensive audio processing the PS5 offers you would hurt XSX performance budget (GPU required):

I honestly don't think the GPU cost is going to be anything astronomical. One of the people (the Bill guy) on the Xbox team working on VR/AR solutions tech pretty much said as such, because there's been some crazy speculation on that front like 20% GPU needed for the audio which is ridiculous.

There are probably some customizations to the ASIC XSX is using for audio, but overall I think audio is something Sony are going to want to leverage at least somewhat moreso. For audiophiles the extra effort will be appreciated and if it's good enough to get spin off into some audio hardware down the line that would be cool (you know, like a dedicated audio synthesizer unit).

For most gamers I figure they will be more than satisfied with what both systems bring in the audio department. What I'm personally more hoping for is wireless peripheral conflict issues get resolved. Can't remember how many times I watched a SFV tournament and saw players bring up controller sync issues (or with the last Capcom Cup, a background system download running while the tournament was going on. That one might've been down more to dumb organizers at the tournament than any built-in system issues however).

I'm not talking about Project Acoustics or Tempest Engine. I'm talking about the companies as a whole, as the person I quoted was. Way to early to definitively state which console's audio solution will be superior but I'd lean Sony for now.

Keep in mind just because these companies have the means to develop super-advanced tech intended for potential other divisions, doesn't mean that tech will make its way to the gaming side. For example, IIRC MS actually has a patent for a super-advanced SSD of their own reaching somewhere around 30 GB/s, but that obviously is not what they chose for the XSX xD. That's something they could be looking into for their future enterprise server market hardware, however.

All the same, PS5's audio will be incredibly impressive but I doubt Sony will put audio capabilities on par with the highest-tier audio system devices, let alone surpass those. The scope of features and capabilities for PS5's audio in that regard will be notably reduced compared to their highest-end tech, because that would probably be overkill for a mass-market consumer games console.

 

[M1chl]

I'm not talking about Project Acoustics or Tempest Engine. I'm talking about the companies as a whole, as the person I quoted was. Way to early to definitively state which console's audio solution will be superior but I'd lean Sony for now.

In that case sure, Walkman, CD, Minidisk, SACD, etc. : )

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

I've heard, that Project Accoustic is offline solution or at least how it models the soundscape. It's not dynamic, so if you would have destructible space it would not work. Anyway, MS told that they have some custom circuitry also, but we do not know how much...how to put it....advance. But I have no doubt that Sony is going to be leading in this regard, but truth to be told, proper equipment even in a form of high-end stereo cans is going to be out of mainstream budget for these type of things.


We still don't know how far and what difference does it make.

Thing is though, you won't need any special equipment to use sonys solution. They are going to use science in form of algorythms/maths and data about people maybe even for every gamer to change the audio output of already existing speakers/headsets to deliver the immersive nee sound.

But as far as I've seen it until now, most people either don't get how important that is, or they are simplay unaware what that means or they don't give a fuck at all because its not graphics.

I on the other hand can't wait to wittness it. Beeing even more immersend in some juicy a-/j-/rpg or other story and lore driven game. Man I csn't wait to see all those next gen features utilized in a Game from CDPR, Quantic Dream, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studios, Guerilla Games, From Soft, Square Enix and the like.

 

[M1chl]

Thing is though, you won't need any special equipment to use sonys solution. They are going to use science in form of algorythms/maths and data about people maybe even for every gamer to change the audio output of already existing speakers/headsets to deliver the immersive nee sound.

But as far as I've seen it until now, most people either don't get how important that is, or they are simplay unaware what that means or they don't give a fuck at all because its not graphics.

I on the other hand can't wait to wittness it. Beeing even more immersend in some juicy a-/j-/rpg or other story and lore driven game. Man I csn't wait to see all those next gen features utilized in a Game from CDPR, Quantic Dream, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studios, Guerilla Games, From Soft, Square Enix and the like.

Well I am talking about being able to reproduce those frequencies which was shown in those diagrams and for that you need suffiecient "neutral" cans, not something which boost bass or mds, highs. You almost never can cheat audio. I mean audio reproduction. And people are not really used to buy this type of equipment.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Thing is though, you won't need any special equipment to use sonys solution. They are going to use science in form of algorythms/maths and data about people maybe even for every gamer to change the audio output of already existing speakers/headsets to deliver the immersive nee sound.

But as far as I've seen it until now, most people either don't get how important that is, or they are simplay unaware what that means or they don't give a fuck at all because its not graphics.

I on the other hand can't wait to wittness it. Beeing even more immersend in some juicy a-/j-/rpg or other story and lore driven game. Man I csn't wait to see all those next gen features utilized in a Game from CDPR, Quantic Dream, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studios, Guerilla Games, From Soft, Square Enix and the like.

Are you implying special equipment is required for other solutions? Also I doubt anyone but audiophiles will notice a difference between new and old.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Thing is though, you won't need any special equipment to use sonys solution. They are going to use science in form of algorythms/maths and data about people maybe even for every gamer to change the audio output of already existing speakers/headsets to deliver the immersive nee sound.

But as far as I've seen it until now, most people either don't get how important that is, or they are simplay unaware what that means or they don't give a fuck at all because its not graphics.

I on the other hand can't wait to wittness it. Beeing even more immersend in some juicy a-/j-/rpg or other story and lore driven game. Man I csn't wait to see all those next gen features utilized in a Game from CDPR, Quantic Dream, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studios, Guerilla Games, From Soft, Square Enix and the like.

Or perhaps, many people don't care about audio, except Sony since Tempest 3D Audio is suddenly such an important factor in gaming. So important, it got the second most amount of time during Cerny's show.

If sound quality is so important for the average person, you wouldn't get so many people sticking to audio from their TV's integrated 10 watt speakers or a shitty $15 headset with one ear piece.

Believe it or not, there's also many gamers who even put the game sound on mute and prefer listening to music.

I think when consoles got CD quality sound in the 90s, it's kind of good enough for many people. But graphics are always there and there's more to improve upon, since every game needs it. And just eye candy but frames and smoothness. Only games that don't really need it are retro games and if you're playing a super sim game like OOTP Baseball or Zork.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Well I am talking about being able to reproduce those frequencies which was shown in those diagrams and for that you need suffiecient "neutral" cans, not something which boost bass or mds, highs. You almost never can cheat audio. I mean audio reproduction. And people are not really used to buy this type of equipment.

Are you implying special equipment is required for other solutions? Also I doubt anyone but audiophiles will notice a difference between new and old.

Or perhaps, many people don't care about audio, except Sony since Tempest 3D Audio is suddenly such an important factor in gaming. So important, it got the second most amount of time during Cerny's show.

If sound quality is so important for the average person, you wouldn't get so many people sticking to audio from their TV's integrated 10 watt speakers or a shitty $15 headset with one ear piece.

Believe it or not, there's also many gamers who even put the game sound on mute and prefer listening to music.

I think when consoles got CD quality sound in the 90s, it's kind of good enough for many people. But graphics are always there and there's more to improve upon, since every game needs it. And just eye candy but frames and smoothness. Only games that don't really need it are retro games and if you're playing a super sim game like OOTP Baseball or Zork.

Q.E.D.

But as far as I've seen it until now, most people either don't get how important that is, or they are simply unaware what that means or they don't give a fuck at all because its not graphics.

 

[M1chl]

Or perhaps, many people don't care about audio, except Sony since Tempest 3D Audio is suddenly such an important factor in gaming. So important, it got the second most amount of time during Cerny's show.

If sound quality is so important for the average person, you wouldn't get so many people sticking to audio from their TV's integrated 10 watt speakers or a shitty $15 headset with one ear piece.

Believe it or not, there's also many gamers who even put the game sound on mute and prefer listening to music.

I think when consoles got CD quality sound in the 90s, it's kind of good enough for many people. But graphics are always there and there's more to improve upon, since every game needs it. And just eye candy but frames and smoothness. Only games that don't really need it are retro games and if you're playing a super sim game like OOTP Baseball or Zork.

Good luck with them being 10W RMS, it's more like P.M.P.O. It's very easy to oversell for what they are, because nobody knows how loud/precise 10W speakers are.

Bonsaibäumchen said:

But as far as I've seen it until now, most people either don't get how important that is, or they are simply unaware what that means or they don't give a fuck at all because its not graphics.

Because it sadly isn't I still remember paying hefty bucks for Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS, to play Thief 2 with great sound,. Open AL, before Win Vista had raytraced audio and these technologies went absolutely nowhere. People laughed when Titanfall was outed with wav files instead of compressed ones, that it is "stupid waste of space", so here we are. Culture about audio in general sucks. And there was a huge stagnation in this department. Well only Dobly Atmos is some sort of advancement and Ori sounds fucking amazing with it. And based on this video Dolby Atmos/DTX is really good solution.


Timestamped.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I personally didn't like Killzone that much, but it has great potential if they mix it up with the looter-shooter type like Destiny, and somehow The Division with loads of cosmetics, events, etc.

I rarely play shooters these few years, but BF4 was my best shooter game for this current gen. If they put more money and faith into Killzone, SOCOM, and so they can compete and make some solid games in that field. Sony has proved to be very good with story-driven games, unmatched level of details, but can't see a game that has the stamina, longevity to keep gamers coming back to the same game (online gaming).

They're successful in one critical field, but it won't hurt to be successful on online-gaming.

Imo looter shooter and killzone don't go together so I would not welcome that. Let's also not forget Killzone 2 was actually quite successful selling into the multi millions when ps3 software wasn't selling as good as this gen. Also Killzone 2 was one of the, if not thee best fps shooters last Gen with over a 90 meta. Then thy kind of changed the formula and tried to go more noob and arcadey and messed up tht flow. Either way Guerilla and Killzone can shine again, it's had success before and thy don't need to go the looter shooter route.

This gen no exclusive mp game has really caught fire. Loved Uncharted 4 mp and it was decent. Gears and Halo were OK but thy didn't light things up mp wise either. The f2p BR models are what are and have taken over the mp landscape. Thts the big money.

 

[Games Dean]

Keep in mind just because these companies have the means to develop super-advanced tech intended for potential other divisions, doesn't mean that tech will make its way to the gaming side. For example, IIRC MS actually has a patent for a super-advanced SSD of their own reaching somewhere around 30 GB/s, but that obviously is not what they chose for the XSX xD. That's something they could be looking into for their future enterprise server market hardware, however.

All the same, PS5's audio will be incredibly impressive but I doubt Sony will put audio capabilities on par with the highest-tier audio system devices, let alone surpass those. The scope of features and capabilities for PS5's audio in that regard will be notably reduced compared to their highest-end tech, because that would probably be overkill for a mass-market consumer games console.

Yeah I understand that. And my assumptions about the tempest engine have to do more with Cerny's determination to have audio standout on next gen consoles than anything else. It's just a feeling.

Again the only reason I brought up Sony and Microsoft at a top level was because that's the person I responded to was talking about. I'm not suggesting that it is the be-all and end-all when it comes to determining which console's audio solution will be better.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Imo looter shooter and killzone don't go together so I would not welcome that. Let's also not forget Killzone 2 was actually quite successful selling into the multi millions when ps3 software wasn't selling as good as this gen. Also Killzone 2 was one of the, if not thee best fps shooters last Gen with over a 90 meta. Then thy kind of changed the formula and tried to go more noob and arcadey and messed up tht flow. Either way Guerilla and Killzone can shine again, it's had success before and thy don't need to go the looter shooter route.

This gen no exclusive mp game has really caught fire. Loved Uncharted 4 mp and it was decent. Gears and Halo were OK but thy didn't light things up mp wise either. The f2p BR models are what are and have taken over the mp landscape. Thts the big money.

The Uncharted 4 MP was so much fun, comes second or 3rd after BF4 and Rocket League for MP this gen for me! Didn't play Killzone 2, so not sure about how good it was. Let's hope for a better sequel this time, although the 3rd was decent.

 

[ethomaz]

"I Think We Have the Better Console"

Translation: We don't know.

"We're not worried about the power narrative," says Microsoft's Bill Stillwell.

Translation: We are worried.

"I think what you saw [with the PS5 reveal] was the unfortunate by-product of a GDC talk being turned into a marketing event," said Stillwell.

Translation: It's beating our misleading marketing.

"I loved Sony's talk, I think they've got some cool tech. I personally think we have a better console, we're not worried about the power narrative."

Translation: I hate Sony, I think they've got a shit console. But I personally know jack shit if our 12TF console is better, and I'm worried about losing the power narrative.

Translation machine used:

Basically that

No matter what they do... Sony says one work and boom hype goes heavens.

 

[Gamernyc78]

The Uncharted 4 MP was so much fun, comes second or 3rd after BF4 and Rocket League for MP this gen for me! Didn't play Killzone 2, so not sure about how good it was. Let's hope for a better sequel this time, although the 3rd was decent.

Killzone 2 was epic and the mp was one of the best mp's I ever played. Yes, Uc4 mp is miles better than alot of mps nowadays; climbing, traversal, dynamic gameplay, all add value to that mp.

 

[M-V2]

Let's talk about VRS and my Teraflops and your Tflops and forget that Sony have the best studios in the world, they could do that much with only 1.84tf, shitty HDD, lame ass CPU and slow RAM. It's not giving me the best hardware in the world but giving me the best talented ppl that utilize that hardware.

 

[SonGoku]

thicc_girls_are_teh_best The point regarding Matt is he wasn't wrong in his assessment that github was inaccurate which it was. Regardless you wont see me using insiders hearsay as talking points.
My argument that PS5 will support all RDNA2 features is based on common sense and past trends (PS3, PS4, Pro etc)

I think its wrong to assume that MS will have some sort advantage in getting custom/exclusive features as a result of their collaboration with GPU vendors to develop the DX API which is more generic in nature, Turning introduced many of the features before there was any native DX support. This gen we've seen the results of Sony collaboration with AMD and how it affected its roadmap both PS4/Pro had "extra" features (ACEs, RPM) no less. Same occurred during PS5 development, Cerny mentioned how their collaboration affected AMD roadmap and implied a similar discrete GPU would make rounds come launch (not unlike Pro & RX470/80) as a result of that collaboration.

As far of the discussion with Senjut about SFS/TSS: The point I made is that the GPU implementation is not unique in XSX and is likely to be the same across all RDNA2 cards. Whats unique about the XSX implementation is the setup supporting it aka Velocity Architecture which comprises the SSD, I/O unit, CPU, GPU and supporting API/software. The complete setup is customized/unique to XSX, the individual GPU feature its not.

t and they've been asked by DF also to my knowledge with no answer

Cerny gave DF a one sided interview, they couldn't ask anything outside of the established limits, the interview mirrors the content of the presentation.

Yeah.

any USB AMPs currently out that are good/recommended?

 

[lepermessiah]

I'm getting juicy.

 

[SonGoku]

Let's talk about VRS and my Teraflops and your Tflops and forget that Sony have the best studios in the world, they could do that much with only 1.84tf, shitty HDD, lame ass CPU and slow RAM. It's not giving me the best hardware in the world but giving me the best talented ppl that utilize that hardware.

GOW in motion looks beautiful but the gameplay character models and environmental geometry didn't look that hot. HZD was better in these aspects imo

 

[Fake]

GOW in motion looks beautiful but the gameplay character models and environmental geometry didn't look that hot. HZD was better in these aspects imo

Different engines I guess. Santa put much attention in Kratos rather than everything around him. Death Stranding still the king btw.

 

[B_Boss]

When talking about audio, you would want to put Sony on the other side:

Microsoft is not specialize in audio quite like Sony, Bose, Altec Lansing, or Harmon Kardon have.

Sony Music

Official Website

www.sonymusic.com

https://www.sony.com/electronics/audio-systems/t/hi-fi-systems

So yes, people have much, much more belief in Sony when the talk is about audio quality and tech.

I was literally going to tell him the same Bo. How anyone could say that Sony doesn't specialize in audio......well no way. I am not even about to begin about the glory that was the SNES sound chip (S-SMP, courtesy of Kutaragi-san), or long before that when Sony revolutionized portable audio during the Cold War. Excellent piece concerning the chip in any event:

FatNicK Industries | Retro Games, Chiptunes and more

 

[MonkeyPunch]

SenjutsuSage was a special case even on xbox era, someone who was seen as too deluded

but i think everyone here knows that

he needs help

hopefully the quarantine doesnt give him a case of cabin fever and makes it worse

 

[MasterCornholio]

SenjutsuSage was a special case even on xbox era, someone who was seen as too deluded

but i think everyone here knows that

he needs help

hopefully the quarantine doesnt give him a case of cabin fever and makes it worse

I'm close to getting cabin fever with this isolation.

 

[SportsFan581]

I honestly don't think the GPU cost is going to be anything astronomical. One of the people (the Bill guy) on the Xbox team working on VR/AR solutions tech pretty much said as such, because there's been some crazy speculation on that front like 20% GPU needed for the audio which is ridiculous.

Truth. The 20% number was very... convenient. The primary GPU audio function will be RT audio, but the ray casting operates on a separate pipeline from the general shader work. I doubt there will be a game utilizing 20% of the GPU compute for audio.

 

[Grodiak]

I'm very interested in seeing how Sony will be optimizing their Tempest solution outside of headphones - or if they ever will to the point where it actually is solid. With cans on, you have a clear isolated left-right, with speakers, left bleeds to right and vice versa with a nice random factor of room reflections, head positioning/angling and the works. Add even more speakers into the mix (5.1, 7.1 etc) and you are in a world of hurt. Might have to end up leaving 5.1+ setups as is, since you already have a way to do panning.

 

[RaySoft]

A lot of the visual techniques enabled in both Nvidia and AMD cards are Microsoft originated tech. In many ways RDNA 2 is DX12U in silicon.

Now come on! Are you serious? In what way is RDNA 2 DX12U?

 

[icerock]

Looks like he is just tired of our discussion maybe he is just thinking "I will not said anything because you know NDA "

You're lying.

Now go spread your FUD to discord . Thank you.

I found this gem on the said Twitter post, the lack of self-awareness is astounding.

Just to put my own 2 cents into this: the 2.0 GHz, 9.2 TF, RDNA1 no RT was in reference to Ariel chip, not Oberon. The reason we saw Oberon test data with those figures was them using Ariel iGPU profiles in testlists. This has been mentioned at several places but most specifically on the Beyond3D forums and it lines up with what we actually know to be PS5's specs as they are.

This is just a theory, a theory which (funnily) wasn't pieced up until the point AMD confirmed PS5 is based on RDNA2 on their financial day. It emnated from Beyond3D by a poster R600 who used to post here.

PS5's GPU is an Oberon chip with same CU count (both in total and active) as the C0/E0 revision. RT was not mentioned in the first Oberon revision leaked data because they were not testing for RT and RT hardware was likely disabled (since they were running Ariel chip in IGPU profile mode, and Ariel did not feature RT hardware). Sometime between December 2019 and maybe a month before Road to PS5 presentation Sony maanged to up the clock from 2.0 GHz to 2.23 GHz after getting cooling and power system stabilized.

We have no idea when the testing on those Oberon revisions were done, zero, zip, nada. Also, the suggestion that variable frequency is a solution Sony slapped up in December after reveal of Series X is laughable. Something so intricate to the SoC which also plays into the overall design/cooling of the box is worked from the very beginning. Matt on Era said the same, that thing was supposed to run fast all along.

Anyways, me and you have been over this. I can't be arsed re-visiting Github all over again because somehow it magically fits into different criteria over time. The context on Github can never be fully acquired because the data itself was lacking, all these suggestions on what the timeline of the development was and is just guess-work, it won't lead to any fruitful discussion.

This is what Matt actually said :

He always implied Github didn't tell the whole story, not that it was meaningless and not credible at all. There's no need to twist someone's words like that just because you know he won't respond to you here.

If you know the history about the said poster, you won't bother to engage with him. It has happened before with RT stuff whereby he was promptly perm'd on REE. He lacks reading skills/comprehension or both as he has a habit of cherry-picking quotes and tweets to frame ridiculous arguments. The most recent example being that on VRS whereby he's using a MS architect tweet on something different i.e. velocity architecture as proof of a custom hardware specifically being tailored for his favorite plastic box.

 

[RookX22]

Why are people talking about DX12 like it is something special? On PC most games run better/less crashes with DX11 still and if you have a choice between DX12 or Vulkan like 90% of the time Vulkan runs better. I remember hearing about DX12 during the xbox one days real big difference it made.

 

[Zoradeity]

If he said Github was wrong and meaningless and wasn't credible at all, which he did, then he was wrong.

This is what Matt actually said :

He always implied Github didn't tell the whole story, not that it was meaningless and not credible at all. There's no need to twist someone's words like that just because you know he won't respond to you here.

 

[MasterCornholio]

This is what Matt actually said :

He always implied Github didn't tell the whole story, not that it was meaningless and not credible at all. There's no need to twist someone's words like that just because you know he won't respond to you here.

I always went with the common belief that GitHub was outdated. And I was right since the final specifications were different.

 

[Metroiddarks]

I found this gem on the said Twitter post, the lack of self-awareness is astounding.

Meanwhile one in the forum saying Sony and Cerny lie about some specs of PS5 and the
other is part of a discord channel of xbox fanboys but hey he is impartial that was just a coincidence.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Well only Dobly Atmos is some sort of advancement and Ori sounds fucking amazing with it.

That's what we are trying to tell you, Dolby Atmos is a midget, old audio tech compared to the Tempest. Neither me, you, or anyone around here tried it yet, so it's safer to wait until we see all the reviews about it and see by yourself.

PS5 3D audio is designed to make you feel like "you're actually there"

Here's how the PS5 uses 3D audio to increase immersion

www.gamesradar.com

They've started with Sony 360 Reality Audio last year:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/360-reality-audio

That's already 128 sound sources, superior to Dolby Atmos 32 sources, explains the damage control.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

That's what we are trying to tell you, Dolby Atmos is a midget, old audio tech compared to the Tempest. Neither me, you, or anyone around here tried it yet, so it's safer to wait until we see all the reviews about it and see by yourself.

PS5 3D audio is designed to make you feel like "you're actually there"

Here's how the PS5 uses 3D audio to increase immersion

www.gamesradar.com

They've started with Sony 360 Reality Audio last year:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/360-reality-audio

That's already 128 sound sources, superior to Dolby Atmos 32 sources.

Dolby does 100's of sources if the developer wants to. More sound sources in this case are not always better, but its a developer option and not a limit of Atmos. *sigh*

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Dolby does 100's of sources if the developer wants to. More sound sources in this case are not always better, but its a developer option and not a limit of Atmos. *sigh*

We finished that part while you were absent, The Tempest supports 5,000 sound sources if they want to, but they WILL support HUNDREDS with high quality and complex processing up to 20GB/s. Dolby Atmos CAN'T support more than 32 with good quality. Dolby Vision getting kicked by Samsung for open source HDR10+, and Sony's kicking their outdated Dolby Atmos.

 

[SonGoku]

Dolby does 100's of sources if the developer wants to. More sound sources in this case are not always better, but its a developer option and not a limit of Atmos. *sigh*

Why would devs target something that is not common spec for every user? They never put much effort in features that only a minority would use.
That's tempest engine biggest advantage (besides it excelling at processing audio): Each PS5 has that audio capability without the need for peripherals and external processors of varying spec. Devs are more likely to take advantage of hardware that's available to every single user.

Dolby Atmos CAN'T support more than 32 with good quality

Assumption or confirmed?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Assumption or confirmed?

Timestamped

 

[Trueblakjedi]

I understand previous implementations of TSS weren't enabled by hardware, nvidia introduced hardware accelerated TSS with Turing months before DX API supported it with sampler feedback

Microsoft Announces DirectX 12 Ultimate: A New Standard for Next-Gen Games, Supported by GeForce RTX

Ray Tracing, Mesh Shading, Sampler Feedback and Variable Rate Shading, features supported since 2018 on GeForce RTX graphics cards, coming to Microsoft’s DirectX 12 Ultimate API, their new standard for next-gen games.

www.nvidia.com

You can call it what you want, I'll reiterate the point I made since our conversation began: SF/TTS hardware capability is a standard Turing/RDNA2 feature not owned by MS, nothing stops Sony from developing their own software to take advantage of the standard TSS/SF hardware capability found in RDNA2

According to Eurogamer:

"A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. *Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips,*on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later."

So maybe Senju is right that its not an API only implementation, but the marriage of specific HW that's fit for purpose - in this case handling SFS - that doesn't exist in the other console.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

Why would devs target something that is not common spec for every user? They never put much effort in features that only a minority would use.
That's tempest engine biggest advantage (besides it excelling at processing audio): Each PS5 has that audio capability without the need for peripherals and external processors of varying spec. Devs are more likely to take advantage of hardware that's available to every single user.

Assumption or confirmed?

Wouldnt you say that every owner of the XSX would also have that option? Atmos. Project Acoustics or whatever is the final name of MS's solution? How is Sony's offering to its customers different from MS offering its sound solution? Every XSX owner would have its bespoke audio capability as well? Maybe I don't understand your statement.

 

[Tripolygon]

Dolby does 100's of sources if the developer wants to. More sound sources in this case are not always better, but its a developer option and not a limit of Atmos. *sigh*

No they don't.

Dolby Atmos formats support 32 total active objects for games. Windows Sonic for Headphones supports 128 total active objects. Now this is not a limitation of their technology but as of this moment, they only support 32. This is because atmos for headphones run on CPU and it is computationally expensive. This is where the Tempest Engine comes in, it is designed to be good at doing the computation hence why they only use 1 modified CU while AMD True Audio Next reserves 4 - 6 CU to do the same thing.

 

[SonGoku]

Timestamped

That distinction you pointed out is for sure important, PS5 could do thousands of simple PS4 VR era sources and hundreds of more complex/advanced sources. Dolby didn't make the distinction so you might be onto something but regardless of Dolby being capable of handling hundreds of complex sources is the inherent physical limitation that makes 3D Audio with 100s of sources difficult (if not impossible) to implement in multiple speakers setups instead they use Virtual Surround to approximate it but it won't be as advanced (less sources?)I assume. Both Cerny and Dolby mentioned this limitation

Wouldnt you say that every owner of the XSX would also have that option? Atmos. Project Acoustics or whatever is the final name of MS's solution? How is Sony's offering to its customers different from MS offering its sound solution? Every XSX owner would have its bespoke audio capability as well? Maybe I don't understand your statement.

For sure. Im not up to speed with their audio block capabilities but same principle applies if their solution can be used with non proprietary headphones or TV speakers.
I was talking about Dolby in general not meaning to take a dig at XSX.

*Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips,*on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later."

So maybe Senju is right that its not an API only implementation, but the marriage of specific HW that's fit for purpose - in this case handling SFS - that doesn't exist in the other console.

DF is alluding to hardware acceleration, nvidia calls this hardware capability TSS.
Bespoke just means dedicated hardware in contrast with a entirely software solution, this "bespoke hardware" capability will be present in every RDNA2 card. There are different tiers of support: software, hybrid and hardware
What's unique about XSX is the setup supporting it: SSD, I/O, CPU, GPU & APIs or Velocity Architecture as MS calls it.

 

[schaft0620]

Microsoft didn't detail their chip out, so I'm assuming you're simply speculating? Microsoft had 3 audio-based research projects if I recall correctly.

Project Acoustics
Project Triton
Microsoft Soundscape

So sure, Sony has made plenty of receivers, headphones, CD players, etc. but both companies have been required to process audio for decades. Neither Sony or Microsoft specialize in audio quite like Bose, Altec Lansing, or Harmon Kardon have. That being said, processing audio and providing speakers are two different things

Sony's been doing both for over 40 years. They are leaps and bounds ahead in audio to all AAA publishers. You hear that in GoW, HorizonZD, The Order, Death Stranding, Spider-Man.

They lean on their orchestra's, state of the art recording studios and countless audio engineers.

 

[Vroadstar]

Microsoft didn't detail their chip out, so I'm assuming you're simply speculating? Microsoft had 3 audio-based research projects if I recall correctly.

Project Acoustics
Project Triton
Microsoft Soundscape

So sure, Sony has made plenty of receivers, headphones, CD players, etc. but both companies have been required to process audio for decades. Neither Sony or Microsoft specialize in audio quite like Bose, Altec Lansing, or Harmon Kardon have. That being said, processing audio and providing speakers are two different things

Sony been involved with audio for decades, what BS are you spouting? Do you actually believe that they just create speakers, headphones or audio equipment and they don't have their own audio-based research group to take advantage of their own equipment? If that's not FUD, I don't know what is

 

[Trueblakjedi]

That distinction you pointed out is for sure important, PS5 could do thousands of simple PS4 VR era sources and hundreds of more complex/advanced sources. Dolby didn't make the distinction so you might be onto something but regardless of Dolby being capable of handling hundreds of complex sources is the inherent physical limitation that makes 3D Audio with 100s of sources difficult (if not impossible) to implement in multiple speakers setups instead they use Virtual Surround to approximate it but it won't be as advanced (less sources?)I assume. Both Cerny and Dolby mentioned this limitation

For sure. Im not up to speed with their audio block capabilities but same principle applies if their solution can be used with non proprietary headphones or TV speakers.
I was talking about Dolby in general not meaning to take a dig at XSX.

DF is alluding to hardware acceleration, nvidia calls this hardware capability TSS.
Bespoke just means dedicated hardware in contrast with a entirely software solution, this "bespoke hardware" capability will be present in every RDNA2 card. There are different tiers of support: software, hybrid and hardware
What's unique about XSX is the setup supporting it: SSD, I/O, CPU, GPU & APIs or Velocity Architecture as MS calls it.

Bespoke usually means custom and not common. It is possible to use bespoke your way... but in an editorial about the XSX it would seem to mean bespoke for the XSX rather than an RDNA2 general hardware like Geometry Engine.

Again there's lots that we don't know so we can't effectively debate the point either way but ...

 

[Trueblakjedi]

No they don't.

Dolby Atmos formats support 32 total active objects for games. Windows Sonic for Headphones supports 128 total active objects. Now this is not a limitation of their technology but as of this moment, they only support 32. This is because atmos for headphones run on CPU and it is computationally expensive. This is where the Tempest Engine comes in, it is designed to be good at doing the computation hence why they only use 1 modified CU while AMD True Audio Next reserves 4 - 6 CU to do the same thing.

From Dolby with respect to Tempest engine:

Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects?

No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects.

That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.

Developers have also told us that avoiding the horizontal "bed" for an all-object mix is an unnecessarily time-consuming and labor-intensive effort. So far, developers are creating next-generation mixes by blending bed audio and object audio. More is good, but more may not necessarily be "better."

- https://developer.dolby.com/blog/spatial-audio-and-the-ps5/

There's not too much more to say here.

 

[SonGoku]

Bespoke usually means custom and not common. It is possible to use bespoke your way... but in an editorial about the XSX it would seem to mean bespoke for the XSX rather than an RDNA2 general hardware like Geometry Engine.

Again there's lots that we don't know so we can't effectively debate the point either way but ...

Im confident because Richard used the same terminology before to refer to hardware accelerated RT
But just for arguments sake lets say XSX has a unique hardware modification, it doesn't change the fact that SFS/TSS hardware capability is a basic RDNA2/Turing feature.

edit: Found one but im sure there are more examples, also on videos

It's here where the lack of detail is somewhat disappointing in that while the silicon will support ray tracing, there is no confirmation on the extent that it is accelerated via bespoke hardware, as opposed to running in 'software' via compute shaders - as we've seen recently with Windows DXR titles running on older Nvidia 10-series graphics cards.

Spec Analysis: Sony's surprise PlayStation 5 tech reveal

Sony has revealed the first specs for what system architect Mark Cerny refers to as its 'next-gen console' in a fascina…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Imtjnotu]

Wouldnt you say that every owner of the XSX would also have that option? Atmos. Project Acoustics or whatever is the final name of MS's solution? How is Sony's offering to its customers different from MS offering its sound solution? Every XSX owner would have its bespoke audio capability as well? Maybe I don't understand your statement.

Sony's offering is for everyone any pair of headphones. Yes audio quality differed between headsets but everyone will have the ability to take advantage of the 3D audio. No longer are you required to have a first or 3rd party headset to take advantage of 7.1 or Dolby