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[Bo_Hazem]

As are others then as well, minus sources of their evidence to their claims.

I would love them to be trolling if solidifying your points with links and solid sources is considered "trolling". Some can't contribute or add to the thread and jump from time to time and post purely irritating posts that drag the debates into useless chat.

 

[AveragePhoenix]

Battlefield aint going to be cross-gen. Guaranteed

Dragon Age if it manages to come out by 2022

The next Assassin's Creed game after this one.

Starfield

Beyond Good and Evil 2

That Harry Potter game

Rocksteadys Game

I doubt the next AC will come out by 2022, but ok I guess.
Starfield will be cross-gen
Beyond Good and Evil 2 was already confirmed for current-gen consoles.
Starfield will be cross-gen, same for Harry Potter and Rocksteady's game
Save this, I'm willing to take an "L" as you guys say

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Seriously?!

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Most pc's used for gaming (Not necessarily gaming pcs) match that Unless you're counting my grandma's pc If you're not exclusively counting gaming PCs, then no, they won't. Most won't even have dedicated GPUs.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

"Here is the power cable"
most liked gaming tweet of all time

Lol...we are so hungry for news other than pandemics and politics, most of us would watch a four hour special on the power cable! If it was a call in show, I'd even call in to join the discussion.

 

[Kazekage1981]

I just wanna lay the facts of both consoles:

We haven't seen any next gen shit. I am waiting to see Forza Motorsport 8 and Gran Turismo Sport 2/Gran Turismo 7 and other NEXT GEN titles.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I doubt the next AC will come out by 2022, but ok I guess.
Starfield will be cross-gen
Beyond Good and Evil 2 was already confirmed for current-gen consoles.
Starfield will be cross-gen, same for Harry Potter and Rocksteady's game
Save this, I'm willing to take an "L" as you guys say

AC isn't having a 2 year gap. So it'll be 2022, if we don't get one in 2021.

Starfield will not be cross-gen. That's just crazy to believe

Beyond Good and Evil 2 platforms haven't been officialy announced.

Harry Potter and Rocksteady's game will not be crossgen.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I just wanna lay the facts of both consoles:

We haven't seen any next gen shit. I am waiting to see Forza Motorsport 8 and Gran Turismo Sport 2/Gran Turismo 7 and other NEXT GEN titles.

You ain't seeing anything next-gen from the Forza team yet. Give it another 2 years

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You can't compare those two loading demos. One is an actual game with no optimizations. The other is a fixed sequence with a fixed camera and fixed path. The latter is easily going to be more efficient since there is less variance. The game on the Xbox is still using the old method of loading everything. The demo of the PS5 is loading a specific scene, and then it is trying to use the new method on the PS4, showing how it freezes but the PS5 does not. Apples and oranges.

As for VRAM usage... The fact that you have to resort to a VRAM report bug to somehow prove that games use more than 6GB of VRAM at 4K says it all... Want proof? Here's a timestamped video by Digital Foundry. Starting at 15:49 to 16:10. Just FYI, they say the game runs without stutter at 4K with a GTX 1060 that has 6GB of VRAM.


I guess you've already proven that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Then you're stating that Sony is faking? Then let's wait until we see further evidence in the future.

The second one you're missing that there is an extra RAM on PC's, and both are using GDDR6 only as a RAM? Anyway, I will sleep for now, you may continue with the rest as you seem to know what you're talking about.

 

[Ascend]

It's like Acend didn't watch Cerny's presentation at all. Nobody seems to have.

Here we go with the baseless accusations again... I watched the presentation and I understand what he means. Do you?

The SSD was designed to address those issues and limitations. So you get the exact speed. No bottlenecks and other usual limitations. Stop comparing brute PC hardware to custom built consoles.

Where does he say that they can reach sequential read speeds with random reads?

For the millionth time. Watch and understand how the SSD was made. The SSD specs will fully translate into games. Don't know if SX will be like this. Looks like they're using a standard SSD with a standard controller.

Funny... The majority that are speaking for the PS5's unique design didn't even look into the XSX apparently... Let me just copy a few things...

"DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. "

Sound at all like PS5's solution? What about this?

" Hardware decompression is a dedicated hardware component introduced with Xbox Series X to allow games to consume as little space as possible on the SSD while eliminating all CPU overhead typically associated with run-time decompression. It reduces the software overhead of decompression when operating at full SSD performance from more than three CPU cores to zero – thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better gameplay and improved framerates. "

Or this...?

"A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance. "

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

There's a reason I've been saying that most of the things the PS5 can do, the XSX can do it too. The PS5 might still have a speed advantage, but it's not exclusive tech to the PS5...

 

[Kazekage1981]

You ain't seeing anything next-gen from the Forza team yet. Give it another 2 years

Ok whatever the NEXT GEN launch games will be for both consoles. I am sure more will be revealed in summer, fall and eventually before holiday release.

 

[AveragePhoenix]

AC isn't having a 2 year gap. So it'll be 2022, if we don't get one in 2021.

Starfield will not be cross-gen. That's just crazy to believe

Beyond Good and Evil 2 platforms haven't been officialy announced.

Harry Potter and Rocksteady's game will not be crossgen.

Its crazy to believe that a game that has been in development for 3+ years is coming out in current-gen consoles?

Hum, still, same case as Starfield.

You can keep denying it with no ground to stand on, but it wont make what you say the truth.

https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gdc-6.jpg?w=628&resize=628%2C600&strip=all&strip=all

 

[SonGoku]

The 4.8GB/s and 8-9GB/s figure is simply the difference between compressed and uncompressed. It applies to everything including textures... Textures are also compressed and need decompressing to be used.

4.8GB/s is a peak figure for bcpack Texture compression, if only textures were being streamed which won't always be the case

nd the slowest SSD in sequential reads is 2470MB/s. The fastest is literally 495% faster than the slowest.
Take the random read speeds, and that difference is reduced to 39153 IOPS, which is 153MB/s. Now, the fastest drive is only 113% faster.

Too many variables, too little data to draw that conclusion, for instance on the R/W test the advantage of the fastest drive jumped to 780% it depends how well a drive handles random reads, the drive you mentioned took a disproportionate hit for instance. Depends of how frequently games need to stream random data and how devs package data on the install.

PS5 I/O has fine grained modifications to minimize the impact of random reads and Cerny gave a typical in game performance metric of 8-9GB/s which accounts for random reads in gaming.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Have Sony said for certain that PS5 games will be PS5 specific discs and there will be PS5 exclusive games right out of the gate?

I'm assuming that the PS5, as well as the XSX, will use BDXL discs (4K UHD Blu-ray Discs) as storage for physical copies of games. Since both consoles will have BDXL-compatible drives, it would make sense to use BDXL discs to store games since the discs can store up to 100GBs of data (three layers that can each store ~33GBs) while regular Blu-ray discs can store up to only 50GBs of data (two layers that can each store 25GBs).

Next-generation games whose campaigns and multiplayer modes have only as much content as the games of the current generation will be able to have smaller file sizes than the games of the current generation, since their files will need far less redundant data due to the significantly faster seek times of the SSDs in the PS5 and the XSX. Hence, one would think that regular Blu-ray discs would be more than enough for next-generation games, but one should expect that developers will want to make games that are so much larger than current-generation games that even regular Blu-ray discs won't be enough.

Imagine Marvel's Spider-Man 2 being so expansive that it includes more than Manhattan as the explorable portion of New York City, such as all four of the other boroughs (Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx, and Staten Island), and that it includes ten times as many unique nonplayable characters, vehicles, and environmental textures...and ten times as many missions.

Having said that, I'm assuming also that the PS5 and the XSX will be able to run and install games from regular Blu-ray discs as well, since BDXL-compatible drives are backwards compatible with regular Blu-ray discs. Such a functionality would allow people who own physical copies of current-generation games to install and run them on the PS5 and the XSX, as well as to automatically upgrade their copies of cross-generation games to their next-generation versions without having to buy new physical copies.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Its crazy to believe that a game that has been in development for 3+ years is coming out in current-gen consoles?

Hum, still, same case as Starfield.

You can keep denying it with no ground to stand on, but it wont make what you say the truth.

https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/gdc-6.jpg?w=628&resize=628%2C600&strip=all&strip=all

When they're still reluctant to formally announce platforms, yes. If it's still not out by 2021, the possibility of it coming out on current gen is slim to none. Mind you, i'm already convinced it's a next gen exclusive with its tech.

Starfield is garunteed next gen exclusive. Just like Fallout 4 was.

Denying what? You're still acting like i'm saying all developers are going to work on next gen exclusives. There's obviously still going to be shitloads of cross gen games for years to come. Not even denying that

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Have Sony said for certain that PS5 games will be PS5 specific discs and there will be PS5 exclusive games right out of the gate?

Continuing my previous reply to your post...

Also, I'm assuming that Sony and Microsoft want to use the extra storage capacity of BDXL relative to regular Blu-ray discs to store larger and therefore more complicated software-encryption files, in order to make hacking the discs more difficult.

 

[AveragePhoenix]

When they're still reluctant to formally announce platforms, yes. If it's still not out by 2021, the possibility of it coming out on current gen is slim to none. Mind you, i'm already convinced it's a next gen exclusive with its tech.

Starfield is garunteed next gen exclusive. Just like Fallout 4 was.

Denying what? You're still acting like i'm saying all developers are going to work on next gen exclusives. There's obviously still going to be shitloads of cross gen games for years to come. Not even denying that

So whats your point? "But, some games will be exclusive to next-gen!!!" My original point still stands, there's a reason games don't require 2080TIs or super-fast SSDs to run, there's a demographic, your casual game doesn't have that hardware. So yes, big publishers will wait till SSDs become the standard

 

[Ascend]

Then you're stating that Sony is faking? Then let's wait until we see further evidence in the future.

It's not faking... It's a different type of test...

I dont see how it won't

Higher SSD read speeds = better vram utilization, less wasted data

the benchmarks aren't running games built for the ground up to optimize SSD usage w/r/t detail, diversity, or better LOD

All true. But the tech isn't exclusive to the PS5, as I've already stated in my previous post.

Too many variables, too little data to draw that conclusion, for instance on the R/W test the advantage of the fastest drive jumped to 780% it depends how well a drive handles random reads, the drive you mentioned took a disproportionate hit for instance. Depends of how frequently games need to stream random data and how devs package data on the install.

All true. But I took the fastest and the slowest for a reason. The fastest drive took the biggest hit because they are advertising speeds that are not reachable in normal applications. That's how they sell the drives. And it should be noted that the fastest drive here is still slower than the PS5. So, if things are done in the same way, the performance drop of the PS5 will be equally 'disproportionate'.

PS5 I/O has fine grained modifications to minimize the impact of random reads and Cerny gave a typical in game performance metric of 8-9GB/s which accounts for random reads in gaming.

He gave the typical throughput of the I/O, not the typical random read performance of the SSD for games. Those are two different things. They CAN mean the same thing, but I doubt it is in this case.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So whats your point? "But, some games will be exclusive to next-gen!!!" My original point still stands, there's a reason games don't require 2080TIs or super-fast SSDs to run, there's a demographic, your casual game doesn't have that hardware. So yes, big publishers will wait till SSDs become the standard

My point is they're not waiting for the PC lot to take out their wallets, same applies for the PS4 and One owners. Once we're passed the first year of launch, outside of the money milking franchises, we're going to see plenty of next-gen exclusive games just like last gen.

How do you seriously expect people to adopt tech if you don't make content exclusive for that tech?

 

[Red Rackham's Revenge]

As for VRAM usage... The fact that you have to resort to a VRAM report bug to somehow prove that games use more than 6GB of VRAM at 4K says it all... Want proof? Here's a timestamped video by Digital Foundry. Starting at 15:49 to 16:10. Just FYI, they say the game runs without stutter at 4K with a GTX 1060 that has 6GB of VRAM.


I guess you've already proven that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe I'm a potato and I'm not understanding it properly, but the video you linked makes it sound like the game is using all the memory given to it, but makes trade offs on some details if given a smaller memory pool to work with that might not be noticeable.

Am I wrong?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's not faking... It's a different type of test...


All true. But the tech isn't exclusive to the PS5, as I've already stated in my previous post.


All true. But I took the fastest and the slowest for a reason. The fastest drive took the biggest hit because they are advertising speeds that are not reachable in normal applications. That's how they sell the drives. And it should be noted that the fastest drive here is still slower than the PS5. So, if things are done in the same way, the performance drop of the PS5 will be equally 'disproportionate'.


He gave the typical throughput of the I/O, not the typical random read performance of the SSD for games. Those are two different things. They CAN mean the same thing, but I doubt it is in this case.

didn't say it was exclusive, only that it was better. Better memory management = more detailed textures

 

[SonGoku]

There's a reason I've been saying that most of the things the PS5 can do, the XSX can do it too

While they share similar features like an I/O APIs, decompressing units and SFS theres also customizations PS5 has that were not mentioned for XSX
PS5 strong points are: higher throughput from decompression unit (22GB/s vs 6GB/s), reads optimized ID system and SRAM to minimize random reads penalties, 6 priority levels to queue on demand data, I/O co processors and coherency engines

XSX strong points are: BCpack

The PS5 might still have a speed advantage

"might" lol ok

 

[Ascend]

Maybe I'm a potato and I'm not understanding it properly, but the video you linked makes it sound like the game is using all the memory given to it, but makes trade offs on some details if given a smaller memory pool to work with that might not be noticeable.

Am I wrong?

It's swapping textures in and out, so it's not using less details. But if you lack VRAM, you might visually see the texture being swapped out, so to speak.

didn't say it was exclusive, only that it was better. Better memory management = more detailed textures

As long as the memory bus and GPU can handle it.

While they share similar features like an I/O APIs, decompressing units and SFS theres also customizations PS5 has that were not mentioned for XSX
PS5 strong points are: higher throughput from decompression unit (22GB/s vs 6GB/s), reads optimized ID system and SRAM to minimize random reads penalties, 6 priority levels to queue on demand data, I/O co processors and coherency engines

XSX strong points are: BCpack

"might" lol ok

Let me ask you just one thing.... What does this mean...?;

The flash controller, why may have been designed by Samsung (along with the memory), has 12 channels and offers bandwidth of 5.5GB/second. Six of them are prioritized for gaming.

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

 

[ethomaz]

I think it'll be separate from the 40CUs but reside within the GPU

While that can be true I think it is a waste... they can use one of the 40 CUs.

 

[SonGoku]

The fastest drive took the biggest hit because they are advertising speeds that are not reachable in normal applications. That's how they sell the drives. And it should be noted that the fastest drive here is still slower than the PS5. So, if things are done in the same way, the performance drop of the PS5 will be equally 'disproportionate'.

Sony isn't selling a speed or drives, their target from the beginning was 5GB/s and they surpassed it a bit. You can't make a correlation with a low quality drive and claim PS5's drive will be subject to the same limitation. The adata drive performance delta widened on the r/w random test for instance

He gave the typical throughput of the I/O, not the typical random read performance of the SSD for games. Those are two different things. They CAN mean the same thing, but I doubt it is in this case.

What do you think typical i/o throughput means?
Its the average performance while streaming gaming data which already accounts for the random reads encountered during a regular gaming load

Let me ask you just one thing.... What does this mean...?;

The flash controller, why may have been designed by Samsung (along with the memory), has 12 channels and offers bandwidth of 5.5GB/second. Six of them are prioritized for gaming.

Mistake from the editorial mixing different concepts

 

[SonGoku]

While that can be true I think it is a waste... they can use one of the 40 CUs.

The thing is any one of the CUs from SA's can be disabled, they can't predict were the defects will hit that's why im not sold on the idea, plus TE is a different design. Besides TE is tiny it wouldn't take much space at all.
But idk could happen.

 

[bitbydeath]

Ryan "They're worth a trillion dollars" McCaffrey's deleted DualSense Tweet.

Does Xbox have a type?

 

[Ascend]

Mistake from the editorial mixing different concepts

Really? Ok...

 

[TLZ]

We dont have confirmation, so it could be one of the 36cus, it is unlikely that there will be only 3 unactive cus. Sony wont want worse yields.

What exactly are you trying to achieve here? That it's 10tf and not 10.3tf? Is that 0.3tf such a big deal to you to keep going on and on about it?

 

[DForce]

It's swapping textures in and out, so it's not using less details. But if you lack VRAM, you might visually see the texture being swapped out, so to speak.

It's using less detail. That means there are textures that are lower resolution to keep it within its limit. It says textures are either delayed not loading at all. The VRAM usage shows what the game requires when you want the highest texture quality. 6GB is not enough for the highest quality textures possible.

 

[Self]

Ok whatever the NEXT GEN launch games will be for both consoles. I am sure more will be revealed in summer, fall and eventually before holiday release.

I thought there will be no 'true next gen' games on XSX in the next two years. All Xbox games have to be compatible to older consoles or PC.

Can someone elaborate?

 

[Agnostic2020]

Here we go with the baseless accusations again... I watched the presentation and I understand what he means. Do you?


Where does he say that they can reach sequential read speeds with random reads?


Funny... The majority that are speaking for the PS5's unique design didn't even look into the XSX apparently... Let me just copy a few things...

"DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. "

Sound at all like PS5's solution? What about this?

" Hardware decompression is a dedicated hardware component introduced with Xbox Series X to allow games to consume as little space as possible on the SSD while eliminating all CPU overhead typically associated with run-time decompression. It reduces the software overhead of decompression when operating at full SSD performance from more than three CPU cores to zero – thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better gameplay and improved framerates. "

Or this...?

"A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance. "

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

There's a reason I've been saying that most of the things the PS5 can do, the XSX can do it too. The PS5 might still have a speed advantage, but it's not exclusive tech to the PS5...

Dude xsx ssd is 3 pin ssd vs ps5 is a 12 pin ssd . There is no physical way it can keep up with ps5 ssd when it comes to speed. Let it go

 

[Foamy]

Nope. It's all a guessing game at this point how next gen software distribution and labelling will work.

Ok. Thanks for answering my question.

 

[TLZ]

Ryan "They're worth a trillion dollars" McCaffrey's deleted DualSense Tweet.

This is why I say these idiots should stop doing this because they'll only hurt themselves and look silly later.

 

[Neo_game]

You can't compare those two loading demos. One is an actual game with no optimizations. The other is a fixed sequence with a fixed camera and fixed path. The latter is easily going to be more efficient since there is less variance. The game on the Xbox is still using the old method of loading everything. The demo of the PS5 is loading a specific scene, and then it is trying to use the new method on the PS4, showing how it freezes but the PS5 does not. Apples and oranges.

As for VRAM usage... The fact that you have to resort to a VRAM report bug to somehow prove that games use more than 6GB of VRAM at 4K says it all... Want proof? Here's a timestamped video by Digital Foundry. Starting at 15:49 to 16:10. Just FYI, they say the game runs without stutter at 4K with a GTX 1060 that has 6GB of VRAM.


I guess you've already proven that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I do not understand why Microsoft showed such a weak demo to show the loading times of SSD. That was strange. As far as VRAM is concerned. There are many games that uses 7-8gb on PC. I think they are limited because console was limited to 5.5gb for games which is been ported to PC. Once the cross-gen are over. Devs would be utilizing 10+gb of VRAM.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

Dude xsx ssd is 3 pin ssd vs ps5 is a 12 pin ssd . There is no physical way it can keep up with ps5 ssd when it comes to speed. Let it go

how do we know xsx ssd is 3 pin? that seems low

 

[FeiRR]

You completely missed the point.
Yes there will be lots of improvements, but most of those are going to be limited to games exclusive to the PS5, all multiplats will be designed with HDDs in mind as most PC's don't have SSD's yet

You are completely missing the point that an entry-level 512 GB SSD is about $50, so less than one RRP game. It's also a very easy to install and start benefiting from its performance: you just install a game to it and there you go. I switched to SSDs in my workstation years ago and never looked back. Those were simple, inexpensive upgrades which significantly increased the comfort of work. Next gen titles will just have an SSD as a requirement. There's even a PC exclusive game which requires SSD right now.

Most pc's used for gaming (Not necessarily gaming pcs) match that
Unless you're counting my grandma's pc

Steam hardware stats page says you're very wrong. It's not a good way to start a membership with groundless conjecture and a passive-agressive attitude towards your interlocutors. Just a friendly advice, we all have a 'report' button and as a new account, you're on probation.

Well I mean Killzone Shadowfall had utilised RayTraced glossy reflections and that was a launch title, so I'll definitely commend the team @ Guerilla Games for pulling off a form of raytracing that early in the 8tn gen. Killzone Shadowfall was a beautiful looking game, in a way, still is!!!

KZ:S reflections aren't RT. There are several ways to make them look like that in realtime without RT.

You can use cube mapping, which is throwing a static texture in the mirror which resembles what would be reflected in it. It's very easy and doesn't take any additional resources when your game is running but in game production you have to render those textures first. Infamous Second Son used that approach: window reflections were calculated on fast render farms to be put into the game. The effect is great but the preparation phase required a lot of artists working on that, which translates into hefty budget.

Another technique used in many games to make puddles and other water volumes is screen space reflections. It can render dynamic surroundings of a said reflective surface in realtime, even including the character models. It's the closest to RT in terms of quality but also has several limitations, the biggest of them probably being that it can only reflect what you see on screen (you as a player), so won't work with mirrors that you look straight at because then you'd see the cameraman... No, I'm joking You wouldn't see anything behind virtual camera of the game. It's also very taxing on hardware. That's why a lot of mirrors or puddles in games aren't very detailed (render at lower resolution and framerate) while a lot of mirrors are broken. This is to hide the lesser quality of that image. If you remember the first SpiderMan trailer, it has a lot of puddles, the construction yard was all wet. They decided to remove most of the puddles because it was too taxing on hardware and didn't add that much to the whole scene.

Finally, you can just make all objects behind the mirror/window real, just put them there, add a shader to simulate glass and there you go. Of course it's also very taxing on hardware but works well in closed spaces, like baths where a character looks into their reflection. Then you have two character models and a hole in the wall. This technique is probably the oldest. The first time I remember seeing a reflection in a 3D game was Duke Nukem. At that time it even wasn't a 3D model, just a sprite.

Continuing my previous reply to your post...

Also, I'm assuming that Sony and Microsoft want to use the extra storage capacity of BDXL relative to regular Blu-ray discs to store larger and therefore more complicated software-encryption files, in order to make hacking the discs more difficult.

That's an interesting take. With all the effort to speed-up I/O, there must be a real problem with encryption. PS4 encrypts/decrypts data on-the-fly. It's quite easy to do if you have a 50MB/s data stream. IIRC, one Jaguar core is dedicated to that (in PS3 it was one SPU). I don't think even a Ryzen CPU core can do on-the-fly encryption of 5 GB/s. Or can it?

 

[Ascend]

Dude xsx ssd is 3 pin ssd vs ps5 is a 12 pin ssd . There is no physical way it can keep up with ps5 ssd when it comes to speed. Let it go

Did you actually read the last line I wrote when you quoted me?

It's using less detail. That means there are textures that are lower resolution to keep it within its limit. It says textures are either delayed not loading at all. The VRAM usage shows what the game requires when you want the highest texture quality. 6GB is not enough for the highest quality textures possible.

Oh great. Another one trying to justify a bug as actual RAM usage. Let me just drop this here...

A recent example of this was seen on our Resident Evil 2 benchmark. We often saw VRAM allocation go as high as 8.5 GB when testing with the RTX 2080 Ti at 4K, but there was no performance penalty when using a graphics card with only 6GB of VRAM. There was however a big performance penalty for cards with less than 6 GB.
That is to say, while the game will allocate 8GB of VRAM at 4K when available, it appears to be using somewhere between 4 and 6 GB of memory, probably closer to the upper end of that range.

Is 6GB VRAM Enough for 1440p Gaming? Testing Usage with Nvidia's RTX 2060

Today we're investigating claims that the new GeForce RTX 2060 is not a good buy because it only features 6GB VRAM capacity. The RTX 2060 offers performance...

www.techspot.com

I do not understand why Microsoft showed such a weak demo to show the loading times of SSD. That was strange. As far as VRAM is concerned. There are many games that uses 7-8gb on PC. I think they are limited because console was limited to 5.5gb for games which is been ported to PC. Once the cross-gen are over. Devs would be utilizing 10+gb of VRAM.

They use more VRAM because of duplicate loading. You can look at that Techspot article above for more detail.

As for the 'weak' showing of SSD loading times, just wait till they officially announce BCPack.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Dude xsx ssd is 3 pin ssd vs ps5 is a 12 pin ssd . There is no physical way it can keep up with ps5 ssd when it comes to speed. Let it go

LMAO, he really wants the XSX to be as fast as the PS5 in regard to data transfer.

 

[Neo_game]

Did you actually read the last line I wrote when you quoted me?


Oh great. Another one trying to justify a bug as actual RAM usage. Let me just drop this here...

A recent example of this was seen on our Resident Evil 2 benchmark. We often saw VRAM allocation go as high as 8.5 GB when testing with the RTX 2080 Ti at 4K, but there was no performance penalty when using a graphics card with only 6GB of VRAM. There was however a big performance penalty for cards with less than 6 GB.
That is to say, while the game will allocate 8GB of VRAM at 4K when available, it appears to be using somewhere between 4 and 6 GB of memory, probably closer to the upper end of that range.

Is 6GB VRAM Enough for 1440p Gaming? Testing Usage with Nvidia's RTX 2060

Today we're investigating claims that the new GeForce RTX 2060 is not a good buy because it only features 6GB VRAM capacity. The RTX 2060 offers performance...

www.techspot.com

They use more VRAM because of duplicate loading. You can look at that Techspot article above for more detail.

As for the 'weak' showing of SSD loading times, just wait till they officially announce BCPack.

I have already seen that article. My argument is that for PS4 5.5gb were allowed. So I expect this gen devs will use at least twice more than. The BW as well as amount of RAM is the weakest part of these console by far.

 

[DForce]

Oh great. Another one trying to justify a bug as actual RAM usage. Let me just drop this here...

A recent example of this was seen on our Resident Evil 2 benchmark. We often saw VRAM allocation go as high as 8.5 GB when testing with the RTX 2080 Ti at 4K, but there was no performance penalty when using a graphics card with only 6GB of VRAM. There was however a big performance penalty for cards with less than 6 GB.
That is to say, while the game will allocate 8GB of VRAM at 4K when available, it appears to be using somewhere between 4 and 6 GB of memory, probably closer to the upper end of that range.

What's funny is what you just quoted proves what we are saying.

A recent example of this was seen on our Resident Evil 2 benchmark. We often saw VRAM allocation go as high as 8.5 GB when testing with the RTX 2080 Ti at 4K,

8.5GB of VRAM was being used. That means it exceeds the 6GB limit when using textures at their max setting.

That is to say, while the game will allocate 8GB of VRAM at 4K when available, it appears to be using somewhere between 4 and 6 GB of memory, probably closer to the upper end of that range.

This means they tested 6GB cards and 4GB cards and the game had issues when it tried running with less than 4GB of VRAM.

What the article does not touch on is what Digital Foundry explained in the video.

It is SWAPPING textures in and to keep up performance stable. This means the max texture size will require MORE than 6GB of VRAM.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Lazy devs is going to be a recurring theme.

 

[Ascend]

What's funny is what you just quoted proves what we are saying.



8.5GB of VRAM was being used. That means it exceeds the 6GB limit when using textures at their max setting.




This means they tested 6GB cards and 4GB cards and the game had issues when it tried running with less than 4GB of VRAM.

What the article does not touch on is what Digital Foundry explained in the video.

It is SWAPPING textures in and to keep up performance stable. This means the max texture size will require MORE than 6GB of VRAM.

Swapping textures happens all the time in games, just FYI. And allocation is not the same as required usage. And it was the same conclusion for multiple games... From the same article...

Increasing the resolution to 4K, the RTX 2060 is 9% slower for the average frame rate and 8% slower for the 0.1% low frame time result. So while the margins grew at 4K, they're nowhere near big enough to claim a VRAM issue for the RTX 2060.

Moving to 4K we see the average frame rate margin increased to 16%, but the 0.1% low reduced to just 7%. Again, no memory capacity issues here. Frame time performance for the RTX 2060 is excellent despite its 17% fewer CUDA cores, so a 16% deficit in a heavily GPU bound scenario makes sense.

At 1440p the RTX 2060 was 11% slower for the average frame rate and 10% slower for the 0.1% low. Those margins change ever so slightly at 4K, but with no evidence of running out of VRAM.

Bottom Line
It's clear that right now, even for 4K gaming, 6GB of VRAM really is enough.

If that isn't enough evidence, nothing will ever be. And additionally, with the SSDs coming into the picture, RAM usage for the same assets will go down. So RAM will only be less of an issue going forward.

But believe whatever you want to.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

I thought there will be no 'true next gen' games on XSX in the next two years. All Xbox games have to be compatible to older consoles or PC.

Can someone elaborate?

it's just first party titles that are affected though.

 

[FeiRR]

Dude xsx ssd is 3 pin ssd vs ps5 is a 12 pin ssd . There is no physical way it can keep up with ps5 ssd when it comes to speed. Let it go

ATA drive has 40 pins, SATA has 7 pins but allows much faster transfer because of that "S" which stands for "serial". It's not how it works

M.2 drives have 67 pins but many are bundled together or disabled because they're not needed. I don't believe that XSX proprietary drive will have only 3 separate pins. I believe it will be expensive, though, and we'll see a few meltdowns on GAF. I remember that crying over Vita cards .

 

[DForce]

Bottom Line
It's clear that right now, even for 4K gaming, 6GB of VRAM really is enough.

If that isn't enough evidence, nothing will ever be. And additionally, with the SSDs coming into the picture, RAM usage for the same assets will go down. So RAM will only be less of an issue going forward.

But believe whatever you want to.

You're moving the goalpost after you found out that you were wrong.

Based on what? Games on 4K do not use more than 6GB of VRAM today.

See that?

You said games do not use more than 6GB of VRAM today.

You weren't talking about 6GB of VRAM being enough, you said 4K games do not use MORE than 6GB of VRAM.


As shown on Resident Evil 2 Benchmarks, it exceeds that limit. 6GB.



Want another game?



Doesn't matter if the VRAM usage wasn't 100% accurate, it still requires more than 6 if you want to best visuals possible.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

The flash controller, why may have been designed by Samsung (along with the memory), has 12 channels and offers bandwidth of 5.5GB/second. Six of them are prioritized for gaming.

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

Lmao

That would be absolutely stupid if it was true. Did you not bother fact checking that statement or find it odd at all?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yeah, furthermore...it's pointless using last gen games as benchmarks. These next-gen games will use as much VRAM as possible since there wasn't a big jump...that's where the SSDs come into play. For a PS5 game, they only need to store as much in VRAM as it takes to move in 1 second. That narrow timing window means that 16GB of VRAM (or slightly less due to OS) can have a huge portion of it optimized for that 1 second rather than the next 20+ seconds like current gen games are.

VRAM will be a lot more focused and not wasted with tons of data that doesn't need to be in there.

 

[Radical_3d]

Both consoles are very undercut in the RAM department (specially the SX since it is more powerful) and it'll show sooner than later. I hope some dev says it out loud.

 

[Self]

it's just first party titles that are affected though.

Yes, ok. But aren't primary first party games expected to use the full potential of a given architecture?

I don't expect multiplats to utilize their potential. Do you? Hmm...

 

[Aceofspades]

Let me ask you just one thing.... What does this mean...?;

The flash controller, why may have been designed by Samsung (along with the memory), has 12 channels and offers bandwidth of 5.5GB/second. Six of them are prioritized for gaming.

Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.

www.tweaktown.com

Cerny said that in PS5 they designed SIX "priority levels" unlike standard nvme TWO.

This has nothing to do with number of channels.