Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Using the 7 - 9 figure for the PS5 and the 6GB figure for the XSX
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Using the 7 - 9 figure for the PS5 and the 6GB figure for the XSX
I got the 7-9 GB/s from Cerny's presentation road to PS5. Maybe I misheard. The 4.8 -6Gb/s was from MSFT. And it is Sony that mentioned the theoretical high of 22GB/s for specific data. We have heard no such thing from MSFT.
Okay so thank you for the clarification but the point still stands. Because I was using the 9GB/s rate not the lower one. Otherwise the figures to compare are:
PS5:
8-9 GB/s
XSX:
4.8-6GB/s before XBTC is finalized.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Still running on the assumption that developers will do absolutely nothing to improve Kraken compression, I see...
CrysisFreak
Banned
Yeah I need a new generation of gaming, lads.
I can't continue like this. No matter what I play I'm just constantly thinking about that sweet new next-gen shader complexity that is going to make things look so orgasmic.
Just finished a session of Forza Horizon 4 at 144fps thinking to myself "yeah it's cool but come on it's 2020".
Our time has come. We need another evolution because things are getting stale.
I feel like I'm playing PS3 games with turned up poly count and PBR materials at this point.
Legit every single game except maybe RDR2 has perceivable LOD transistions when you really pay attention. I want that shit to be gone asap.
SSDs are a blessing from the heavens, can't wait for them to grace console gamers too.
Now I just gotta hope that the old 'rona doesn't killstreak us to oblivion.
I can't continue like this. No matter what I play I'm just constantly thinking about that sweet new next-gen shader complexity that is going to make things look so orgasmic.
Just finished a session of Forza Horizon 4 at 144fps thinking to myself "yeah it's cool but come on it's 2020".
Our time has come. We need another evolution because things are getting stale.
I feel like I'm playing PS3 games with turned up poly count and PBR materials at this point.
Legit every single game except maybe RDR2 has perceivable LOD transistions when you really pay attention. I want that shit to be gone asap.
SSDs are a blessing from the heavens, can't wait for them to grace console gamers too.
Now I just gotta hope that the old 'rona doesn't killstreak us to oblivion.
That's not what I was calculating in the comment you replied to. In any case I was using 6GB for the XSX and 9GB for the PS5. Never considered the 7GB/s which is actually 8GB/s. On the other hand if we compare 4.8 to 8, its still a solid reduction of 50% over the original 200% advantage in raw read write speeds.
ethomaz
Banned
Fixed with reality.
Reality check again.
Fixed.
You can predict whatever dream scenario you want.
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What developers are you talking about??
SonGoku
Member
Yes it does factor BCPack... zlib alone won't provide a 50% compression ratio
The last part of your statement applies to PS5 as well nothing stops them from continuously working on improving their algorithms and frankly is to be expected
It might go higher but the figures MS gave with BCPack included show 50% compression 2.4/s->4.8GB/s
I remember reading an article that went over this, you'll essentially need to write PBs worrth of data, other components are likely to fail before the SSD
It does
6GB/s is a theoretical limit of the hardware decompressing block, for reference the theoretical limit of PS5 decompression block is 22GB/s.
These are peak figures you aren't likely to see
I have no qualms with that. I corrected him for using the hardware decompressing block theoretical limit (6GB/s) as a typical figure
The typical figure given by MS which already accounts for BCPack is 4.8GB/s
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
The developer of kraken?
The Mad Draklor
Member
ethomaz
Banned
Fixed again.
Cerny and Sony confirms officially 8-9GB/s.
MS confirm officially 4.8GB/s.
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MasterCornholio
Member
So if they improve Krakens decompression could they reach something like 11 gb/s to 13 gb/s?
I'm really curious as to how it works.
I was expecting Sony to hit 12-13GB/s such that they can load up all of RAM for gaming instantly. But they don't need to and it seems MSFT has achieved better compression ratios. Because they have 4.8-6GB/s before even XBTC is finalized. At this point these ranges are unlikely to change
MasterCornholio
Member
Did Microsoft announce 6GB/s someplace?
I remember reading about the 4.8 GB/s figure but I don't remember them making the claim of 6GB/s.
Maybe you could provide me with a source so I can read about it?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
They can potentially reach up to 22GB/s
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Ethomaz Defence Force is already on track!
To save our mother GAF from any SSDs attack!
From vicious giant Xbox who once again come back!
He'll unleash all his forces, he wont cut them any slack!
Be ready for a needed reality check!
The EDF deploys!
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It's actually slightly above that so we'll know once XBTC is done.
Here is the quote from Andrew Gossen:
And here is the link:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
ethomaz
Banned
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TLZ
Banned
Very mature response!
ethomaz
Banned
I tried to explain we have the data backing up but the guy keep talking about 7-9GB/s (decrease the realista) and 4.8-6GB/s (increase the reality) for obvious reasons.
Thanks... different from your with false data.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
"Can" is rather different from "Will".
MasterCornholio
Member
TLZ
Banned
Where do you get the 5-6 from? MS officially said max is 4.8.
ethomaz
Banned
Your own link official specs.
2.4GB/s (Raw), 4.8GB/s (Compressed)
Like I said and I will respect again PS5 can reach over 22GB/s just like Xbox can reach over 6GB/s.
Ascend
Member
It's nice to brag about the speed of decompression, but what does it REALLY bring to the table? In order to decompress something it must be read from somewhere. No SSD at this point in time can reach anywhere near 22 GB/s speeds.
This is basically the equivalent of comparing PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 4.0. At x16 the former is max 32GB/s and the latter is max 64GB/s. How much is the difference in games? Less than 1% difference in framerate. Even PCIe 2.0 x16, which is max 16GB/s, gives about 2% less frames on average compared to the 64GB/s PCIe 4.0, max about 5%-7% less.
Yeah yeah, we can't compare PCs blah blah, because the consoles defy physics...
Edit: I'm getting some questions in my head. I'm going to listen to Cerny again.
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ethomaz
Banned
The SSD is actually transferring at 5.5GB in one second max it just the end result after decompression is typically 8-9GB.
So you just need PCI-E 4.0 lanes enough for 5.5GB/s.
There is a paradigm change in game design/development with SSDs hitting all hardware (consoles) so the different will start to show.
Who will most suffer with that change are PC gamers with mechanical HDD... it will be painful to run games designed to run in SSDs.
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They are still working on the texture compression so their overall compression ratio will be higher for the lower range(2.4/4.8=0.5).
Here is the tweet
bitbydeath
Member
You all realise the SSD isn't the only component in the PS5 that is aimed at removing load times
PS5 Goal - Remove load screens
XSX Goal - Reduce load screens
Both have different overall goals and removing load times wasn't one for XSX.
PS5 Goal - Remove load screens
XSX Goal - Reduce load screens
Both have different overall goals and removing load times wasn't one for XSX.
ethomaz
Banned
Metroiddarks
Member
I just read the last pages and now looks like Xbox PR lied about its specs and told us an lower number than real one in the SSD bandwidth.
So is easy go to Microsoft and request to be Head of public relations of XBOX because clearly you understand better a system
you never touch.
A couple of weeks ago you love to told us the SSD doesn't matter only flops matter but now what happens ?
So is easy go to Microsoft and request to be Head of public relations of XBOX because clearly you understand better a system
you never touch.
A couple of weeks ago you love to told us the SSD doesn't matter only flops matter but now what happens ?
They have already built a hardware decompression block. Sony has built an impressive system able to achieve a throughput of 8-9GB/s. MSFT has done good as well with what seems to be higher compression ratio. MSFT is relying more on software but even then the figures of 4.8-6GB/s are looking final at this point.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
By the same token don't you think RAD/Sony will keep working on and improving Kraken?
It is a silly argument!
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The Mad Draklor
Member
A decompression block does decompressing. The chip has no influence on the __compression ratio. If you actually listened, Cerny said that if the data is compressed particularly well, then the speed can go up to 22 GB/s. If you actually go to RAD Gametools's website, their updates talk about improving the compression ratio on Kraken.
Oodle New Features
RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.
www.radgametools.com
So if you want to make a fair apples-to-apples comparison, then you must run on the assumption that Kraken compression will be improved over time just like with BCPack.
This is what gets me. The people who repeatedly mocked the "SSD secret sauce" even though no one actually referred to the PS5's SSD as "secret sauce" have basically admitted that the SSD is important after all.
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Ascend
Member
And what do you base that on? That they showed quickly changing between different games requires just a few seconds of loading, and that older Xbox games without any adaptation load a lot faster, does not somehow mean that the XSX does not have zero loading screens in mind for the games that are developed specifically for the XSX console.
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PocoJoe
Banned
If numbers are about compression(and not raw speed), why would SSD needs to be read at 22GB/s speed?
compressed data -> read it at 5.5GB/s -> uncompress -> now it is "22GB of data" available after compression is done
I think that numbers mean this, not that 22GB of data is read in 1 second from the disc before compression
Nobody (but you) claims that SSD outputs 22GB/s raw or otherwise, as smaller compressed data which is read from it, uncompresses/expands into these bigger amounts of data after it have been read already.
If they could read SSD at 22GB/s raw, then theoretical number for compressed would be still higher than that.
And this 22 figure is just in theory for data that compress really well so it is not expected to happen 100% of the time anyway
Kind of like some system would read 1GB of data in 1s and uncompress it onto 100GB of data on the fly-> 100GB/s output to RAM/CPU
with your logic xbox needs to read over 6GB/s (or 4.8) raw too, get it now?
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BlacknGold_Blood
Member
Video pulled? Why?
TLZ
Banned
Yea Cerny said they're looking to remove all bottlenecks everywhere. I hope that works out great.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
Think about what Cerny said about only loading what's visible to the player and what the player may see in the next second. Loading time is barely surface level. The faster the SSD, the less seconds' worth of data the system needs to load. That frees up more memory for things such as more detailed assets.
SonGoku
Member
Optimization can mean just few MBs worth or fine tuning it to ensure 4.8GB/s most of the time. As others have said its in MS best interests to present their solution in the best possible light, i would advise caution in expecting higher numbers than they advertised.
Likewise you can rest assured Sony is still optimizing their compression algorithms but don't go expecting 20GB/s outside of edge cases if at all
Thats the decompression hardware block theoretical max, its physical limit. Just like PS5s 22GB/s
Im not bragging about a theoretical peak of the hardware decompression block, I understand what peak means. Im using it as a reference to explain precisely that.
That being said the point of compression is to get more data in memory than the raw output can provide. There might be 20-22GB worth of data that can compress to 5.5GB in a very specific edge case. Just like there might be 6GB worth of data that can compress to 2.4GB in a specific edge case.
These peak figures aren't the norm, and you won't see them in regular gaming scenarios
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ethomaz
Banned
The video is playing yet but it is from a Fake account.
Self High Five
Member
That's some bizarre viral marketing. Usually you don't see that from IGN where people go for actual gaming news.
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Imtjnotu
Member
T
Ign is doing stupid shit today
Hey did it earlier today with the mandolorian 2 trailer.
Ign is doing stupid shit today
ex
lol Why are you considering 6GB/s for Series X and not 22GB/s for PS5?
Sony is not using a software approach like MSFT. Or to the extent of MSFT. Their Decompression algorithms are in a hardware block and that's where it ends. MSFT on the other hand is using a combination of software and hardware. Same thing with the File IO, mapping, Backwards Compatibility. The two companies are using different approaches.
The ranges they gave are unlikely to go higher or lower at this point. Only MSFT will try to get closer to the 6GB/s claim from Andrew Gossen.
Ascend
Member
To tell me "nobody but you claims SSD outputs 22GB/s" is a ridiculous statement. Where did I say it did? I said no SSD today outputs 22GB/s.
You really think I don't know that the 22GB/s is the resulting throughput rather than raw? I'm not stupid. And if someone is claiming that a decompression block has a limit of 22GB/s, written exactly like that, it means the throughput of the decompression block is 22 GB/s. If it has that throughput, the whatever the decompression block is reading from NEEDS/REQUIRES/HAS to be read at that speed, and whatever comes out of the decompression block is larger.
Here's the statement;
"for reference the theoretical limit of PS5 decompression block is 22GB/s."
What other way is there to interpret that? It is written as if the decompression block has a 22 GB/s itself can handle. It doesn't work like that. If you have 5.5 GB/s, you'd have to have a compression of 4x (i.e. the file would be stored as 25MB rather than 100MB for example), to be able to reach the throughput 22GB/s. That's why Cerny said 8-9GB/s output is typical, because the compression is more in the vicinity of 1.5x (which means a raw file of 30MB is stored as 20MB).
The Xbox assumes a compression of around 2x.
SonGoku
Member
lulwut? if Sony isn't using software what is Kraken?
They have their own I/O API (high level and low level access), not sure what you mean by mapping. I concede theres less software overhead in their BC solution
So why you expecting something different than 4.8GB/s
I repeat again, 6GB/s is the theoretical limit of the hardware decompression block. Won't see that level of compression outside of edge case
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