Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Hyphen said:
Do you have a link to this 'exposure' as the rtings site states that they have not tested the C9 for 4K@120Hz.
Many thanks.
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Here:







What it means that at 4K@60Hz you're pretty fine, but at 4K@120Hz you're not getting full color depth, which is critical for HDR at least. So instead of chroma 4:4:4 you'd get 4:2:0 I think. It might be just the CX as you've noted there, but heard on one video that it was the case before that, and that could be wrong. If you could do me a favor and know more about it (C9) I would edit my post to avoid misinformation.

Regards.
 
Me yelling at Sony to unveil the ps5

SHX584u.jpg


Me seeing the desgin of the ps5

6fzBllO.jpg


My reaction

ZPeGJtK.jpg
 
oldergamer said:
This is a tired argument. No the older console isn't going to hold back a title any more than a low end PC held back how gears of war 5 looked and played ( Which it didn't ). Games that scale is nothing new. Single games could have different features, render paths, you name it. Xbox is NOT tied to PC in anyway. I don't know where you get that failed narrative from.

When MS shows first party games ( and we have already seen glipses of a few) that look as good or better then anything you have seen coming, then i'm sure you will change the argument back to "Xbox has no exclusives", or "MS should sell the xbox division", or the best one ever - "It only sells in america and england anyway".
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If you say so, man.
 
Entroyp said:
That video was a so fun to watch. Him being a developer and appreciating (and actually understanding) what Cerny did for developers with no cynicism or bias. Can't wait for part 2.

On the other hand, this poor lad probably now a target for the Xbox Incel extremist discord group. Good luck buddy!
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I like how he went from "Oh this video's 50 mins long so I might skip a lot of it" to "I really like this guy he's such a good presenter and now I want to watch all of it".
 
FranXico said:
After that (very unfair) backlash he got just for sharing a speculation that there might be PS5 hardware features that might later be used in RDNA3, I expect him to be extremely careful with what he says and wave his Xbox loyalty flag really hard, out of fear of harassment and of losing subscribers.
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Yeah after that backlash, anytime he talks about PS5, his next line is about XSX (either stating he doesn't have enough info, or that XSX will do the same/similar). The incident clearly affected him
 
B_Boss said:
Interestingly enough Bo, some here have rationally argued that 3rd parties (for example) will indirectly hold back PS5 due to its unique features such as its super speedy SSD 🤔...that 3rd party devs will not spend the time (assuming certain contexts of course...) creating a unique experience for each platform's player base. I must also say that this wasn't the case when it came to pixel counts (earliest I remember for PS4/XBO was BF4, with BF4 being 900p/PS4 and 720p/XBO) so I'm not sure how strong that argument is but we'll certainly see.

I think it's also interesting that Tom (Moore's Law/MLiD) stated that DICE had mentioned that they're pretty much taking full advantage of the PS5's hardware/software, which is music to my ears if true 🔥.
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You can always take advantage of PS5 anyway, even on multiplats. It's so easy to optimize for and the system does most of the homework for you. For example, the direct streaming method is there on any game, because it saves a lot of unnecessary computational power being wasted on things unseen on screen. Such method gives lots of headroom and that what most of people here were saying months back after the Road to PS5 talk even before the UE5 demo that sealed the deal.

I can see AC Valhalla more than likely be able to run 4K@60fps on PS5 because of this efficiency, XSX could as well but it's working in a traditional way that needs intensive manual optimization and time/money wasting.

Here: (Timestamped)





The same formula again: Faster/cheaper development+More installed base for the platform=3rd party devs will optimize for it first or even seal more exclusivity deals, timed or permanent. The best thing is 1st party studios can produce games much faster.
 
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DeepEnigma said:
Fantastic video, and shows this GDC talk was mainly targeted to developers, since half your average fanboy didn't understand a lick of it.

Glad he takes his time to explain in Laymen's to the average non technical adept gamer.

Subbed and looking forward to Part 2.
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Too bad it cuts off right at the moment that will clear some of his misconception about how fast the PS5 ssd really is. Can't wait for the next video.
 
psorcerer said:
AFAIK you cannot manage GPU cache with DX12. At all.
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Sure - but it's worth remembering that no console to date has been constrained just to public API specs from PC.
That being said - whatever granularity of cache-control hardware allows is what you're stuck with - there are no software workarounds for that. We've now all been through many generations of GPUs (and CPUs on more than one occasion) flushing entire cache on certain events as the only way to maintain coherency.
 
gullideckel said:
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I'm glad people are sharing his videos, dude seems to be very knowledgeable. I shared his previous video were he reacted to the UE5 tech demo and he mentioned something which stood out to me, I'll share it again since I think it's important.

"Just having to sort through all this data, I'm sure this demo is like hundreds of gigabytes , because there is so much texturing, so much triangles, so just reading that data, it's interesting to look at the PS5 architecture, I'm sure a lot of this is being streamed in from disk (SSD), every frame, that SSD has to be blazingly fast, that relationship between disk and VRAM, has to be really tight and think it has to be specific to this architecture"

Funnily enough during that video he was not familiar with the PS5 specs and said he should really check them out.
 
dan_of_orion said:
I'm glad people are sharing his videos, dude seems to be very knowledgeable. I shared his previous video were he reacted to the UE5 tech demo and he mentioned something which stood out to me, I'll share it again since I think it's important.

"Just having to sort through all this data, I'm sure this demo is like hundreds of gigabytes , because there is so much texturing, so much triangles, so just reading that data, it's interesting to look at the PS5 architecture, I'm sure a lot of this is being streamed in from disk (SSD), every frame, that SSD has to be blazingly fast, that relationship between disk and VRAM, has to be really tight and think it has to be specific to this architecture"

Funnily enough during that video he was not familiar with the PS5 specs and said he should really check them out.
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he was on the money if he wasnt aware previously lol
 
dan_of_orion said:
I'm glad people are sharing his videos, dude seems to be very knowledgeable. I shared his previous video were he reacted to the UE5 tech demo and he mentioned something which stood out to me, I'll share it again since I think it's important.

"Just having to sort through all this data, I'm sure this demo is like hundreds of gigabytes , because there is so much texturing, so much triangles, so just reading that data, it's interesting to look at the PS5 architecture, I'm sure a lot of this is being streamed in from disk (SSD), every frame, that SSD has to be blazingly fast, that relationship between disk and VRAM, has to be really tight and think it has to be specific to this architecture"

Funnily enough during that video he was not familiar with the PS5 specs and said he should really check them out.
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If he's right then this statement means we won't see actual games with anywhere near that detail though?
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Here:







What it means that at 4K@60Hz you're pretty fine, but at 4K@120Hz you're not getting full color depth, which is critical for HDR at least. So instead of chroma 4:4:4 you'd get 4:2:0 I think. It might be just the CX as you've noted there, but heard on one video that it was the case before that, and that could be wrong. If you could do me a favor and know more about it (C9) I would edit my post to avoid misinformation.

Regards.
Click to expand...



Don't worry, they'll still do 4:4:4 chroma subsampling with all the above specs! It's the color bit-depth it'll effect for most..

48Gbps Capability = 2160P @ 120Hz 4:4:4 12-Bit (+ HDR, VRR etc.)
40Gbps Capability = 2160P @ 120Hz 4:4:4 10-Bit (+ HDR, VRR etc.)

TV panels are 10-Bit max anyway and the only change is 10-Bit delivered directly to the panel vs 12-Bit processed/dithered down to 10-Bit and then delivered to the panel. The latter is technically preferable but the real world difference is minuscule to non-existent as it currently stands.

The only content in 12-Bit right now is Dolby Vision; and all that content is 4:2:0/4:2:2 and much lower framerates (almost entirely 23.976fps). Even if 60Hz+ games started running 12-Bit Dolby Vision, I expect the consoles will just dither or truncate down to 10-Bit anyway. A quality 12-Bit to 10-Bit dither on the console itself would be right in Sony's wheelhouse.

Saying all that, the HDMI association and electronics manufacturers need to pull their finger out, standardisation, implementation and communication surrounding 2.1 has been an absolute car crash.
 
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IntentionalPun said:
If he's right then this statement means we won't see actual games with anywhere near that detail though?
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Epic has said two things on the matter. One was that this tech demo was meant to be shown what's possible on the fastest hardware available at the end of the year, so that might indicate that although this is what's possible, it might not be what's economically feasible. The other was that they care about data size, and they understand that at the end of the day this tech is aimed for games, and they will talk about that in the breakdown of the tech.

So we will see where those two points meet.

Either way Sony first party and MS first party are right around the corner, so regardless of the tech demo we will get a very good impression of just how much detail you can cram on screen.
 
Audiophile said:
Don't worry, they'll still do 4:4:4 chroma subsampling with all the above specs! It's the color bit-depth it'll effect for most..

48Gbps Capability = 2160P @ 120Hz 4:4:4 12-Bit (+ HDR, VRR etc.)
40Gbps Capability = 2160P @ 120Hz 4:4:4 10-Bit (+ HDR, VRR etc.)

TV panels are 10-Bit max anyway and the only change is 10-Bit delivered directly to the panel vs 12-Bit processed/dithered down to 10-Bit and then delivered to the panel. The latter is technically preferable but the real world difference is minuscule to non-existent as it currently stands.

The only content in 12-Bit right now is Dolby Vision; and all that content is 4:2:0/4:2:2 and much lower framerates (almost entirely 23.976fps). Even if 60Hz+ games started running 12-Bit Dolby Vision, I expect the consoles will just dither or truncate down to 10-Bit anyway. A quality 12-Bit to 10-Bit dither on the console itself would be right in Sony's wheelhouse.

Saying all that, the HDMI association and electronics manufacturers need to pull their finger out, standardisation, implementation and communication surrounding 2.1 has been an absolute car crash.
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Wonderful input, mate. Well, the difference between 12-Bit and 10-Bit is quite staggering:

Fig1-BitDepthValues-600.jpg


If you do photography, you know how critical is shooting in raw 12-bit and how much more details it can grab and how it's much more flexible when editing. Same goes to raw videography. JPG (8-Bit) produced from raw (12-bit) is much, much more superior than an original JPG shot, even if you later produce the photo as 8-bit when finished editing. You can make PNG though for a lossless image that can be massive in size compared to compressed JPG anyway.

8-bit-vs.-12-bit-BMCC.jpg


Anyway, the Xbox One X has already supported Dolby Vision alongside HDR10, PS4/Pro only supported the open-source HDR10. So it's more than likely that both will support HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision, and that might be "slightly" problematic for new Samsung TV's that only support HDR10/HDR10+.

www.techradar.com

The Xbox Series X will be the go-to console for HDR gaming - here’s why

Opinion: Xbox Series X is betting big on HDR
www.techradar.com www.techradar.com

So for someone who didn't buy a new TV and has CX in mind, it's better to wait and pay close attention to reviews going forward. What's beyond me is Sony's new FX9 camcorder shooting 4K@120fps in raw 16-bit :lollipop_downcast_sweat: .
 
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Well hopefully this time two weeks from now we either will have just seen the Sony event or will be really close to seeing the Sony event. Slowly but surely we are getting there. I just need some next-gen gameplay to rewatch again and again
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Here:







What it means that at 4K@60Hz you're pretty fine, but at 4K@120Hz you're not getting full color depth, which is critical for HDR at least. So instead of chroma 4:4:4 you'd get 4:2:0 I think. It might be just the CX as you've noted there, but heard on one video that it was the case before that, and that could be wrong. If you could do me a favor and know more about it (C9) I would edit my post to avoid misinformation.

Regards.
Click to expand...


The last I heard is that the CX HDMI 2.1 was downgraded from the C9. The C9 has full HDMI 2.1 implementation I believe. Very sneaky what LG did this year. And all the more confusing considering the LG CX 48 was targeting gamers and PC players specifically.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
You can always take advantage of PS5 anyway, even on multiplats. It's so easy to optimize for and the system does most of the homework for you. For example, the direct streaming method is there on any game, because it saves a lot of unnecessary computational power being wasted on things unseen on screen. Such method gives lots of headroom and that what most of people here were saying months back after the Road to PS5 talk even before the UE5 demo that sealed the deal.

I can see AC Valhalla more than likely be able to run 4K@60fps on PS5 because of this efficiency, XSX could as well but it's working in a traditional way that needs intensive manual optimization and time/money wasting.

Here: (Timestamped)





The same formula again: Faster/cheaper development+More install base for the platform=3rd party devs will optimize for it first or even seal more exclusivity deals, timed or permanent. The best thing is 1st party studios can produce games much faster.
Click to expand...

I believe Valhalla is most likely GPU-limited on next-gen consoles. The reason why it's 30fps is because I think they're pushing PC's Ultra settings on next-gen consoles at native 4K, while current-gen will be running at Med-High (perhaps even lower settings) at lower resolutions. Even if PS5 could run Valhalla at 4K, 60fps, they'd cap the frame-rate to 30fps for parity's sake.
 
Md Ray said:
I believe Valhalla is most likely GPU-limited on next-gen consoles. The reason why it's 30fps is because I think they're pushing PC's Ultra settings on next-gen consoles at native 4K, while current-gen will be running at Med-High (perhaps even lower settings) at lower resolutions. Even if PS5 could run Valhalla at 4K, 60fps, they'd cap the frame-rate to 30fps for parity's sake.
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Surely Ubisoft has an upscale method to not have to waste resources running native 4K? It's the only sane way to approach open world next gen games imo.
 
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Entroyp said:
That video was a so fun to watch. Him being a developer and appreciating (and actually understanding) what Cerny did for developers with no cynicism or bias. Can't wait for part 2.

On the other hand, this poor lad probably now a target for the Xbox Incel extremist discord group. Good luck buddy!
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He and InnocenceII did good jobs breaking the tech down....They have been under fire from certain Discord groups and fanatics though...







 
Coulomb_Barrier said:
Surely Ubisoft has an upscale method to not have to waste resources running native 4K? It's the only sane way to approach open world next gen games imo.
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Dunno, it's Ubisoft. Their AC games are always sub-optimal on consoles in terms of frame-rate. They might have dynamic res enabled though.
 
DaGamez said:
CPU scaling has been around for a long time in games. You must have missed it.

Sliders that effect NPC density, density of enemy swarms, physics, etc. have existed forever. Those are techniques used, in part, to lower CPU minimum requirements.
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Everyone knows the reason they are releasing cross-gen games is to have more sales and especially for Sony and Microsoft to be keep thier subscription users active. They are hoping they are going to transition to next gen on same platform in few years time. The lowest common denominator definitely has a impact. Basically cross gen games are nothing more than remastered PS4 or Xbox games at best.
 
thelastword said:
Ha Bethesda, I hope Bethesda just use unreal and be done with it. Heard they were working on their engine though, so hopefully they come good after their last game... Fifa Fifa, for some reason, I think Fifa will look bonkers at 8K.....EA better bring the goods, they have no excuses. I know Battlefield will look amazing, a next gen Mirrors Edge or remakes of the first two will look stunning at 4k-8k.....Yet I want EA to give me a sequel to Dante's Inferno badly and I want them to remake the DeadSpace series. And please, no more 30fps NFS games and for that matter, lets get back to track racing like in Porsche Unleashed, High Stakes etc....
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Well Bethesda as publisher have a ID Software, them have one the best engine for FPS to run in 60 FPS in console with probably Infinity Ward (the last Call of Duty looks gorgeous), so
I expect they work with them in order to create a new engine instead to just (at least looks like this) patch the old engine of xbox 360 era.

Because man Fallout 76 and Doom Eternal were released for the same publisher but looks from differents generations aside from those bug then let's be honest in the last generation
were funny now are just annoying.

EA doesn't need excuses for be EA just see the last numbers of profit they got from FIFA ultimate .... are disgusting high.
 
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thelastword said:
He and InnocenceII did good jobs breaking the tech down....They have been under fire from certain Discord groups and fanatics though...







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There's something he says in the first video that I don't quite get. He says "while the Series X is probably the more powerful console, the PS5 is probably easier to develop for and easier to push to its limit."

Easier to develop for seems like a speculative reach unless he's developed on both dev kits, but that's fine. It's his opinion based on what we know, and maybe he's right.

but as far as "easier to push to its limit," isn't that a bad thing? If you can max something out easily doesn't that mean there isn't enough headroom to work with?

I also can't help but notice we seem to pretend only MS has "fanantics" and "discord gangs." It's the same both ways, my man
 
gullideckel said:
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Gotta say this is the best complementary video I've ever seen to 'Road to PS5'. Watching thoughts from a former EA dev who seems to be totally unbiased(he didn't even know PS5/XSX specs before) and has a lot of game development experience just brings a refreshing credibility to it. Cannot wait for part two.
 
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thelastword said:
He and InnocenceII did good jobs breaking the tech down....They have been under fire from certain Discord groups and fanatics though...







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I have seen his videos, but I have a disagreement with the latter. He said we only see a game with this destails in 2022/2023, but with HZD2 and a other Sony IP, I think in the next year we will se a game like Unreal 5 or even better.


I have other questions too, he said 3 or 4 years to a game like Unreal, because the level of detail, but they are only using megascans, the Unreal already made a video building a Forest with Megascans in a hour, so I Think its possible in very much less time ( Cerny talked about less than a month to create a game for PS5 and possible megascans is included). But I can be wrong.
 
Lawrence 'Chunk' Cohen said:
There's something he says in the first video that I don't quite get. He says "while the Series X is probably the more powerful console, the PS5 is probably easier to develop for and easier to push to its limit."

Easier to develop for seems like a speculative reach unless he's developed on both dev kits, but that's fine. It's his opinion based on what we know, and maybe he's right.

but as far as "easier to push to its limit," isn't that a bad thing? If you can max something out easily doesn't that mean there isn't enough headroom to work with?

I also can't help but notice we seem to pretend only MS has "fanantics" and "discord gangs." It's the same both ways, my man
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I would like to think it goes both ways too, but honestly the hardcore fanaticism has been coming from the Xbox side, especially when it comes to creating and spreading FUD rumours about the PS5 such as the overheating issues and the difficulty game devs have been having with the PS5 (+much more). It got to the point were several prominent tech-insiders/journalists had to come out and call bullshit on these stupid rumours which all began with that discord. I have not seen anything that bad come from the PS side of things. Which is interesting since PS has a significantly larger fan and user base. Don't get me wrong, I'm denying fanboys on both sides, I've seen some pretty stupid shit from the PS fans too but not on the level of the Xbox fanboys, specifically that Discord group.
 
thelastword said:
He and InnocenceII did good jobs breaking the tech down....They have been under fire from certain Discord groups and fanatics though...







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I find his videos entertaining but I disagree in some of his points like for example:

1) Gears 5 is a horrible in performance.

Yes the game could has problem in performance but man do your research instead to just say than in the beginning was level
the last Batman.

2)A console cannot have a performance of a more expensive gpu like 2080.

I mean both console in just raw power are above a rx 5700 xt which is just 15%-20% less than the rtx 2080, the companies like
Xbox and Playstation are not guilty for our love to buy those overpriced GPUS for just a minimum delta in performance.

But in general like his videos for the way he explain some concepts.
 
dan_of_orion said:
I would like to think it goes both ways too, but honestly the hardcore fanaticism has been coming from the Xbox side, especially when it comes to creating and spreading FUD rumours about the PS5 such as the overheating issues and the difficulty game devs have been having with the PS5 (+much more). It got to the point were several prominent tech-insiders/journalists had to come out and call bullshit on these stupid rumours which all began with that discord. I have not seen anything that bad come from the PS side of things. Which is interesting since PS has a significantly larger fan and user base. Don't get me wrong, I'm denying fanboys on both sides, I've seen some pretty stupid shit from the PS fans too but not on the level of the Xbox fanboys, specifically that Discord group.
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People who want to "both sides" are being disingenuous. Clearly one side is investing a 1000% more into spreading fud and belittle the other.

Considering the Xbox brand built its image around "bro dudes", energy drinks and shooters, it's hard to be surprised.
 
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