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[pawel86ck]

Can anyone address these tweets regarding SFS as posted by someone in another thread by @Bernkastel

Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer through a custom hardware decompression block

don't tell me someone that had no idea what they were talking about in this thread suggested that "Perhaps Unreal 5 won't work with the hardware optimizations on XSX" and now a few are entertaining the idea? Fact is it's not true and there is nothing to suggest that nanite won't benefit from...

www.neogaf.com

Can the PS5 do similar and will it use similar methods? Will devs happily get somthings running on PS5 using its speed and not use this because they don't need to but will on xbox because they have to? Meaning if similar was used on PS5 it could have more performance but may go unused?

I know people have said partially resident textures has been around ages so is this really all that as claimed below?

What cost does sfs have, cpu ,latency etc...

This guy saying PS5 doesn't does it normal way not like sfs.... is he right?

Few pages ago I have asked the same question but only to learn it's not a good thread to ask such questions . Quick summary
- I've no idea what I'm talking about even when I'm only quoting MS engineers, because experts here know better
- SFS is useless software trick and nothing special, PS5 doesnt need it.
- PS5 I/O eats XSX I/O for breakfast no matter what clever bandwidth saving tricks XSX will use.

 

[FranXico]

Please enlighten us then.

4 months ago, he explained how it interacts with GPU.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Another indie developer i've never heard of before lol

 

[Brudda26]

Please enlighten us then.

He shouldn't have to it was spoke about in the Road to PS5 video and explained quite clearly. The guy in the tweets obviously missed that.

 

[Entroyp]

Tbh it is just vibrations and some mono audio, vibrations on your palms, thats it!

im not sure, as a pragmatic gamer, i had like something like this eating up my hardware BOM and also wireless battery.

I don't think there's an angle where not having those features is better though.

 

[ZywyPL]

4 months ago, he explained how it interacts with GPU.

There's nothing in that presentation saying whether the PS5 will load only the necessary data or the unused/not needed ones as well. Actually there was almost no information abut the GPU/rendering other than Geometry Engine and RT.

 

[SgtCaffran]

I can't imagine any modern game actually loading the full high quality texture assets for every object in the scene. I don't think that's how game work nowadays. There is a reason why mip maps exist...

I also don't know if I agree that the PS5 doesn't have this. Both PS4 and Xbox One had hardware support for partially resident textures but were probably not able to fully utilise this technology due to the slow HDD. With SSDs however, much better efficiency can be achieved.

From how I understand it, SFS mainly adds hardware filtering between different mip levels if a texture has to switch because the high red version is not yet in memory.

 

[Vae_Victis]

I'm not going to pretend that there was ever a way to please you. Message is, creative first, studios can decide, no one is forced to make something for a specific console.

This is a perfectly valid strategy that I can fully get behind.

The problem is that this is in blatant contradiction with what he himself stated barely a week ago:

Xbox boss says generation exclusives are ‘completely counter to what gaming is about’ | VGC

Spencer gives impassioned speech about Xbox’s cross-gen strategy…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Our device is not the centre of our strategy, our game is not the centre of the strategy. We want to enable you to play the games you want to play, with the friends you want to play with, on any device. (...) Sorry, I am a bit soapboxy with this one. Gaming is about entertainment and community and diversion and learning new stories and new perspectives, and I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games. Or to force someone to buy my specific device on the day that I want them to go buy it, in order to partake in what gaming is about. Gaming is bigger than any one device, and that is something as an industry that we've embraced all up as we bring more and more players in. I think it's vital to the role that gaming can play on the planet.

Both of these (1. every platform is always supported, or 2. each developer can decide for their own game) would be understandable strategies with pros and cons, but FFS they have to pick one and just stick with it. I'm not an Xbox gamer so I personally don't care all that much, but if I were I would be seriously asking what the hell is the plan here and what should I even expect in the near future.

Not to speak of the fact that in that same occasion Phil said more "technical" stuff that goes beyond just "this is the strategy we chose", and becomes even more ridiculous in the light of this last interview:

Frankly, held back is a meme that gets created by people who are too caught up in device competition. I just look at Windows. It's almost certain if the developer is building a Windows version of their game, then the most powerful and highest fidelity version is the PC version. You can even see that with some of our first-party console games going to PC, even from our competitors, that the richest version is the PC version. Yet the PC ecosystem is the most diverse when it comes to hardware, when you think about the CPUs and GPUs from years ago that are there. Yes, every developer is going to find a line and say that this is the hardware that I am going to support, but the diversity of hardware choice in PC has not held back the highest fidelity PC games on the market. The highest fidelity PC games rival anything that anybody has ever seen in video games. So this idea that developers don't know how to build games, or game engines, or ecosystems, that work across a set of hardware… there's a proof point in PC that shows that's not the case.

So... was all of this just bullshit? Because, if supporting a wider range of hardware has no real impact on the games and the advantages of platform specificity are "a meme", then why in the bloody merry round world would a first-party Microsoft developer ever decide that developing for next-gen only is what's best for their game (and Microsoft let them do that)?

This continuous flip-flopping where things are not really important until they are and what the competition is doing is wrong until they themselves do it is retarded, and it doesn't help anyone except for fanboys who need their daily dose of ammunition to throw at some other 12 yo in a comment section somewhere. It's damaging their overall message big time in the long run, and I don't even know anymore if they're just talking shit every other day for the sake of optics or if to some extent they don't really know yet where they want to go and are just throwing out everything and the kitchen sink trying to gauge what will stick on the wall.

 

[FranXico]

There's nothing in that presentation saying whether the PS5 will load only the necessary data or the unused/not needed ones as well. Actually there was almost no information abut the GPU/rendering other than Geometry Engine and RT.

Sure there is. Cache scrubber, coeherency engine mentioned in the IO segment... you need to watch more carefully. But I knew you would respond like this.

 

[3liteDragon]

That person is also misrepresenting the PS5 I/O design and the work put into how data is sent to the GPU in there. It's another "uh it's just an SSD" take.

You know who that Twitter person is right?

 

[R3claimer117]

1. Skycadia Demo
2. Momentus DEMO
3. Dungeon Scavenger Inferno Demo
4. PHOGS! Demo
5. Rover Wars : Battle for Mars Demo
6. Freshly Frosted Demo
7. Cake Bash Demo
8. Ars Fabulae Demo

Stopped at 8, smells like arse. How can you fit 60 demos in 60 minutes? It's a random troll posting it on pastebin to laugh about people spreading it later. Thanks for sharing anyway.

Lmao this is for the demos not their showcase seeesh!

 

[SgtCaffran]

There's nothing in that presentation saying whether the PS5 will load only the necessary data or the unused/not needed ones as well. Actually there was almost no information abut the GPU/rendering other than Geometry Engine and RT.

If you really think they went through the trouble of designing a fully custom I/O solution all the way from the SSD to the SSD controller to the APU... and you don't think they will have software to optimise game asset streaming.... I mean.... Yeah

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

Anyone concerned the 2 ends are going to bite into your palms?
The way it is sharper and also having steps?

I don't know if the dual sense will bite your hands but looking at it from this angle I think it have the ability to please two girls staked together

This haptic feedback thing is getting into my mind

 

[SlimySnake]

Can anyone address these tweets regarding SFS as posted by someone in another thread by @Bernkastel

Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer through a custom hardware decompression block

don't tell me someone that had no idea what they were talking about in this thread suggested that "Perhaps Unreal 5 won't work with the hardware optimizations on XSX" and now a few are entertaining the idea? Fact is it's not true and there is nothing to suggest that nanite won't benefit from...

www.neogaf.com

Can the PS5 do similar and will it use similar methods? Will devs happily get somthings running on PS5 using its speed and not use this because they don't need to but will on xbox because they have to? Meaning if similar was used on PS5 it could have more performance but may go unused?

I know people have said partially resident textures has been around ages so is this really all that as claimed below?

What cost does sfs have, cpu ,latency etc...

This guy saying PS5 does it normal way not like sfs.... is he right...?

This is odium btw. He's previously said he doesnt have the devkits and runs a one person studio. Since hes on gaf, he can correct me if I am wrong.

He seems to have sources in the industry, but he was wrong about the PS5 tflops count which he predicted to be 11.5.

Another indie developer i've never heard of before lol

you know him. he's Gavon West formerly known as odium. a regular in this thread. You can ask him questions yourself.

 

[ZywyPL]

Sure there is. Cache scrubber, coeherency engine mentioned in the IO segment... you need to watch more carefully. But I knew you would respond like this.

Doesn't sound like what SFS is doing, at all, more like that HBCC was responsible for in Vega GPUs. I think you're just blindly assuming it does everything XBX does, like VRS and Mesh Shading, while nothing has even actually been confirmed/described by Sony.

 

[FranXico]

Doesn't sound like what SFS is doing, at all, more like that HBCC was responsible for in Vega GPUs. I think you're just blindly assuming it does everything XBX does, like VRS and Mesh Shading, while nothing has even actually been confirmed/described by Sony.

Quote where I said that it does the same as SFS. I never said that.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

1. Skycadia Demo
2. Momentus DEMO
3. Dungeon Scavenger Inferno Demo
4. PHOGS! Demo
5. Rover Wars : Battle for Mars Demo
6. Freshly Frosted Demo
7. Cake Bash Demo
8. Ars Fabulae Demo

Stopped at 8, smells like arse. How can you fit 60 demos in 60 minutes? It's a random troll posting it on pastebin to laugh about people spreading it later. Thanks for sharing anyway.

It's for the Xbox Demo release that goes up on Xbox. They're putting 60 demos for people to play during the next few weeks.

It's not the Showcase.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

A new interview and a new Phil... what Phil will we have next? The sensitive Phil? The Santa Claus Phil? Or the power maters Phil?

I wrote this last Saturday... sure thing uncle Phil never disappoints..

 

[ZywyPL]

Quote where I said that it does the same as SFS. I never said that.

This is your resoinse about the dev claiming the PS5 doesn't have SFS and works in a traditional way:

That person is also misrepresenting the PS5 I/O design and the work put into how data is sent to the GPU in there. It's another "uh it's just an SSD" take.

So OK, I'll give you that you didn't said it directly, but the dev, unless proven otherwise, is correct - the SSD doesn't do jack shit for the GPU as far a bandwidth/rendering savings go, It'll loads all the MIPs whether they're needed or not. And I'll repeat once again clearly - unless proven otherwise, but that's not a task for random people from the internet.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is odium btw. He's previously said he doesnt have the devkits and runs a one person studio. Since hes on gaf, he can correct me if I am wrong.

He seems to have sources in the industry, but he was wrong about the PS5 tflops count which he predicted to be 11.5.


you know him. he's Gavon West formerly known as odium. a regular in this thread. You can ask him questions yourself.

Lmao

Oh him. The other 9.2 tflop believer

 

[Nikana]

This is odium btw. He's previously said he doesnt have the devkits and runs a one person studio. Since hes on gaf, he can correct me if I am wrong.

He seems to have sources in the industry, but he was wrong about the PS5 tflops count which he predicted to be 11.5.


you know him. he's Gavon West formerly known as odium. a regular in this thread. You can ask him questions yourself.

Gavin Stevens not Gavon West

 

[Neo Blaster]

Few pages ago I have asked the same question but only to learn it's not a good thread to ask such questions . Quick summary
- I've no idea what I'm talking about even when I'm only quoting MS engineers, because experts here know better
- SFS is useless software trick and nothing special, PS5 doesnt need it.
- PS5 I/O eats XSX I/O for breakfast no matter what clever bandwidth saving tricks XSX will use.

I'd like to add another one for Xbox fans:

- Cerny is a dufus who knows nothing about computer architecture and gets beaten by every guy on the internet who seems to know more than him, shame on him for putting together such a poorly thought system.

 

[FranXico]

So OK, I'll give you that you didn't said it directly, but the dev, unless proven otherwise, is correct - the SSD doesn't do jack shit for the GPU as far a bandwidth/rendering savings go, It'll loads all the MIPs whether they're needed or not. And I'll repeat once again clearly - unless proven otherwise, but that's not a task for random people from the internet.

I didn't say it "directly" or indirectly. I didn't claim such nonsense at all.

And it goes without saying, the SSD obviously does no rendering. That's the role of the GPU. Data can be written to memory (and sometimes even straight to a GPU cache), but the rendering is done by the GPU. What the customizations do is reduce latency.
It's not just an SSD in there.

 

[ErRor88]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

 

[Larryfox]

Probably not a marketing deal I think he means in the Xbox ecosystem it's only 4K in series x and Xbox one x not the first Xbox one or the Xbox one s

so a marketing deal keeps them from talking about the ps5 version but I was right on that statement on the box only talking about the Xbox ecosystem.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Lmao

Oh him. The other 9.2 tflop believer

Actually Odium was team 11-something TFs ... I think.

 

[Brudda26]

Doesn't sound like what SFS is doing, at all, more like that HBCC was responsible for in Vega GPUs. I think you're just blindly assuming it does everything XBX does, like VRS and Mesh Shading, while nothing has even actually been confirmed/described by Sony.

Mesh shaders are what nvidia call it and AMD call them primitive shaders they are both the same thing.

 

[longdi]

I don't think there's an angle where not having those features is better though.

I listed 2, costs and battery life

 

[Nickolaidas]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

Noticed that as well. They could have purposefully prolonged it to hear the sound effects of the portal via the controller. But don't quote me on that.

Fact remains that Ratchet and Clank prove that you can pull this off in 2 seconds.

 

[chilichote]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

Maybe there is something to be felt on the DualSense in this sequence.

 

[FranXico]

you know him. he's Gavon West Gavon West formerly known as odium. a regular in this thread. You can ask him questions yourself.

Bane is into pidgeons? Please say it ain't so, Broski!

That doesn't make sense.

 

[pawel86ck]

This is odium btw. He's previously said he doesnt have the devkits and runs a one person studio. Since hes on gaf, he can correct me if I am wrong.

He seems to have sources in the industry, but he was wrong about the PS5 tflops count which he predicted to be 11.5.


you know him. he's Gavon West formerly known as odium. a regular in this thread. You can ask him questions yourself.

As I remember Odium was expecting 10TF based on his sources at first, but later on something has changed and he was expecting 11TF.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

Makes me wonder how much worse it will be on the competitors system.

Anyways looks like the promise of elimination of load times won't be fulfilled by either party. But at least it will be much faster than current gen systems.

I honestly don't want to see a 2 minute load time ever again.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Few pages ago I have asked the same question but only to learn it's not a good thread to ask such questions . Quick summary
- I've no idea what I'm talking about even when I'm only quoting MS engineers, because experts here know better
- SFS is useless software trick and nothing special, PS5 doesnt need it.
- PS5 I/O eats XSX I/O for breakfast no matter what clever bandwidth saving tricks XSX will use.

I'm a PS guy, was just seeking clarification. Not one for ignoring info, have to take it all in and see if it stands up.

But I'm i don't really know too much about SFS in any great detail or an equivalent that could be used on PS5.

Some of the more tech heads will be able to answer.

 

[xHunter]

This is odium btw. He's previously said he doesnt have the devkits and runs a one person studio. Since hes on gaf, he can correct me if I am wrong.

He seems to have sources in the industry, but he was wrong about the PS5 tflops count which he predicted to be 11.5.


you know him. he's Gavon West formerly known as odium. a regular in this thread. You can ask him questions yourself.

He also follows misterxmedia and timdog, so that explains most of the stuff too

 

[ErRor88]

Noticed that as well. They could have purposefully prolonged it to hear the sound effects of the portal via the controller. But don't quote me on that.

Fact remains that Ratchet and Clank prove that you can pull this off in 2 seconds.

Maybe there is something to be felt on the DualSense in this sequence.

It could be Insomniac is better at prefetching the required data need to transition and the 2 secs it geometric rendering.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

Na loading will be almost instant, there is likely feedback being felt for this.

Nothing to do with reality catching up.

The ssd speed even just raw could load the full game ram in under 3 seconds, presuming that's under 15GB. Compressed it'll be 1 and a bit probably.

 

[MasterCornholio]

He also follows misterxmedia and timdog, so that explains most of the stuff too

Who follows Mr X?

I mean Gavon I can understand but O'Dium?

 

[ErRor88]

Makes me wonder how much worse it will be on the competitors system.

Anyways looks like the promise of elimination of load times won't be fulfilled by either party. But at least it will be much faster than current gen systems.

I honestly don't want to see a 2 minute load time ever again.

So instant is out and anywhere from 2 secs to 15 secs is acceptable.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So instant is out and anywhere from 2 secs to 15 secs is acceptable.

Both of them should be accused of false marketing. Makes me wonder how much worse the competition is?

Edit: With that said I'm wondering if the Ratchet demo was faked?

 

[Imtjnotu]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

the dude said the game is to show off the controller....not the ssd. or did you just close your ears to that part

 

[xHunter]

Who follows Mr X?

I mean Gavon I can understand but O'Dium?

Should have made it clear. O'dium follows misterxmedia on twitter, you can check it out for yourself.

 

[FranXico]

So instant is out and anywhere from 2 secs to 15 secs is acceptable.

Well, if you're thinking of claims of "instant access to 100GB", Sony never claimed that.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Both of them should be accused of false marketing. Makes me wonder how much worse the competition is?

Edit: With that said I'm wondering if the Ratchet demo was faked?

Chill, they have shown us how fast it can load. Astrobot is likely doing something there feedback wise.

Faked lol.....

 

[SlimySnake]

As I remember Odium was expecting 10TF based on his sources at first, but later on something has changed and he was expecting 11TF.

IIRC, all these insiders got together and had secret chats together. I do remember a couple of these guys being around 10, but then they all started having group orgies and went up to puberty levels.

i would love to read those PMs after the PS5 tflops were revealed. Civil war. I bet half of these guys arent on speaking terms.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Looks like this game on PS5 takes 7 secs to load/transition. As a multi-console user, it seems like reality is catching up. Timestamped below.

for you

 

[MasterCornholio]

Chill, they have shown us how fast it can load. Astrobot is likely doing something there feedback wise.

Faked lol.....

I'll just wait for more proof then.

 

[Cobenzl]

Should have made it clear. O'dium follows misterxmedia on twitter, you can check it out for yourself.

Is this proof of deviancy? I follow misterxmedia too - for sport.

edit: change spelling of "this"

 

[Imtjnotu]

Both of them should be accused of false marketing. Makes me wonder how much worse the competition is?

Edit: With that said I'm wondering if the Ratchet demo was faked?

how dense are yall seriously???

 

[Neo Blaster]

Maybe there is something to be felt on the DualSense in this sequence.

So much more reasonable thinking for it being part of the controller demonstration. We've already seen Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart load a much higher amount of detail than Astrobot's Playroom in just 2 seconds, but people must follow the PS5 SSD downplaying agenda.