Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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M1chl said:
Are you talking about L2 cache for CPU or it's for GPU? Because 3900x has just 6MB of L2 cache, caches are really expensive to size of the die.
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Only GPU caches I was taling about, RDNA2 has L2 shared, L1 feeding shader arrays and L0 local

CPU is 8 MB on consoles I believe cut down Zen2 and more similar to Zen2 mobile cache.
 
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Snowdonhoffen said:
And here's an official tweet on the matter.
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So basically not all games, confirmed.


Q17qG71.jpg


Looks like crow is back on the menu, boys!
 
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M1chl said:
I did not play State of Decay, however is it some GaaS always connected game?
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Don't think so if you are playing SP. It should just work.

X-Fighter said:
Not sure how the new OS will handle quick resume if there is an update. I'm also not 100% sure if the game was already in a quick resume state.
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It's going to get better and be improved, and the games are going to learn how to handle it better. State Of Decay was definitely in a quick resume state though, you can see the text come up top right when she starts it first time (~10s in).
 
DrDamn said:
Don't think so if you are playing SP. It should just work.



It's going to get better and be improved, and the games are going to learn how to handle it better. State Of Decay was definitely in a quick resume state though, you can see the text come up top right when she starts it first time (~10s in).
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Oh I did not know, that it has SP portion, was thinking something like Sea of Thieves type of game.
 
Insane Metal said:
It honestly looks fun but damn... that looks like shit. Textures are blurry... wtf are codemasters doing.
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On top of that there is a screen tearing on the screen at 2:09 - 2:15

Edit: most the gameplay has screen tearing.

makes me believe still running on PC

 
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One thing... can we not all pile on @X-Fighter like he's a Microsoft representative?

I frankly think he, like many other XBox fans, are getting fucked seven ways from Sunday by Microsoft when they put out dreadful games footage like this, and remain super cagey about the console's actual performance.

Enough marketing bullshit. Put up your fucking games, and back up everything you've been trumpeting at us.
 
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M1chl said:
XSX has 4MB L2 and 8MB of L3.

baMcFM2H9RyMFsiJuioCCk-970-80.jpg
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No its gPU cache, forget the CPU, its all GPU discussion. Gfx L2 cache is what we are discussing for infinity cache potential.

XSX has L2 5MB for GPU, so we learnt no infinity cache in XSX from hotchips. The discssion is size of ps5 L2 GPU cache
 
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geordiemp said:
No its gPU cache, forget the CPU, its all GPU discussion. Gfx L2 cache is what we are discussing for infinity cache potential.

XSX has L2 5MB for GPU, so noinfinity cache from hotchips. The discssion is size of ps5 L2 GPU cache
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Sorry, it not get what you were refering in the last post : )
 
FunkMiller said:
But why are we getting this FIRST?

The footage is getting ripped to shreds by online outlets.

Why not put out something that really show how powerful the console is?

Why put something out first that looks cross gen, and does nothing to sell XsX?
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Why did we get the May games event first? This is just marketing. Start with the "weakest" games, and build up.

I don't think this was smart of them, I would do it differently, but I don't work in marketing. They could've started with Gears 5 of FH4 and then drop in something like Dirt5 to end with a banger. But they chose this, because they want to build it up (I think).
 
FunkMiller said:
But why are we getting this FIRST?

The footage is getting ripped to shreds by online outlets.

Why not put out something that really show how powerful the console is?

Why put something out first that looks cross gen, and does nothing to sell XsX?
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It isn't though?

Ars Technica did a negative review and IGN admitted their recording equipment was causing tearing, so Twitter warriors gleefully use that as proof that somehow Xbox Series X runs games worse than Xbox One S, or something.

But then, Press Start gave it a positive review, as did GameSpot

press-start.com.au

Dirt 5 Xbox Series X Hands-On Preview - Feel The Power

Dirt 5 Xbox Series X Hands-On Preview - Feel The Power
press-start.com.au press-start.com.au



Both reported locked 60fps on Dynamic 4k/Performance mode and "mostly" 60fps on Unlocked 4k/Quality mode. These reports are being ignored because it's much more fun to post Craig in the crowd of a screen-tear shot from IGN.

That said, it's still Dirt. People ever expecting it to look like FH4, which will be Series X enhanced, will be disappointed.

 
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Snowdonhoffen said:
I know Dirt 5 doesn't represent the power of the XSX, neither does Halo Infinite, but it seems Microsoft is really trying to show the most underwhelming cross gen game versions.
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They needed something they had more control over themselves (yeah OK Halo, something guaranteed for launch) - it is showing the value of having more stuff ready to go from your own studios though.
 
X-Fighter said:
You can start by saying where I was wrong. Seriously. There were 3 points the tweet made, I said why they were bs, so feel free to call me out on my bs. What did I say that was so wrong on all of those points?
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she clearly states that's the third time it has happened in a game this week. Those three times had nothing to do with an update or she would have said that. she clearly states it gave a Black screen,

Then the last game crashes.

There are more crashes on that xbox dashboard than in the new dirt gameplay trailer. FACT.
 
LiquidRex said:
As much as the quick resume function is a neat feature when it works, I wonder how much resources it consumes... I also wonder if Sony will use the same feature, as we've yet to see it in action. 🤷‍♂️
From what I recall the PS4 suspend and resume wasn't a feature until 2 years after the console launched.

Correct me if I'm wrong. 👍
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PS5 is said to let you access your saves from the OS and booting is already fast so I don't think it'll be required at all.
 
FunkMiller said:
One thing... can we not all pile on @X-Fighter like he's a Microsoft representative?

I frankly think he, like many other XBox fans, are getting fucked seven ways from Sunday by Microsoft when they put out dreadful games footage like this, and remain super cagey about the console's actual performance.

Enough marketing bullshit. Put up your fucking games, and back up everything you've been trumpeting at us.
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He has shares in the company, shut the hell up trying to defend him.

I love you really @X-Fighter and you know it. :messenger_smiling_hearts:
 
Riky said:
Every electronic item ever made has a failure rate, how many consoles has MS given out? How many have failed? We have a report of one and we don't know how it was kept or handled.

They seem to have sent out quite a few so no I'm not worried, Sony haven't let any third party touch a PS5 yet......a month to go....you concerned?
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Red Herring much? The subject is the Series X, not the PS5.

Is there any way you fanatics can actually argue what's being discussed without saying "but the PS5"?
 
Aceofspades said:
The way this people conterpulate this data is funny and wrong on so many levels.

Why would you use reduction on CUs as the only factor in reducing size? GPU components are less than half of SoC in XSX. So naturally, 44% reduction in CUs will only lead to ~18-20% reduction in overall size.

Lets think of it a different way using what we currently know about XSX:

Die size: 360mm
GPU: 360*047 = 169.2mm (GPU was 47% of XSX die shot)
For simplification, I will be lumping other elements (CPU, IO, Caches into the remaining area) = 190.8mm

now since the poster used reduction of CUs are the main differentiator between PS5 and XSX, lets calculate each CU approx area using what we know about XSX:

Each CU= 160.2/56 = 2.8mm

we can now deduce PS5 die size:

(40CUs* 2.8mm) + 190.8 = 302.8mm

We have PS5 die at around 303mm which almost within rounding error or minor differences to the 308mm mentioned in the tweet.

So I expect PS5 caches to be similar to XSX. Or minor differences in the I/O block


Edit: The numbers I provided is purely as a response to that tweet, it doesn't take into consideration a lot of small details of chip design. So take that with huge grain of salt...its just me trying to explain that 44% reduction in CUs should leads to 44% decrease in die size.
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How can the difference between the I/O's be 'minor'? Does XSX's I/O have SRAM, two coprocessors and coherency engines? Also it seems that you are forgetting about XSX's larger memory bus.
 
Notice how Ratchet and Clank transitions from the title screen to game?

kY3dNU.gif


I wonder if traditional start screens-
New Game
Load Game
Settings
etc

Are completely gone now and only controlled at the OS level for full next-gen titles.
 
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geordiemp said:
The 2 memory PHY saving is quite large as well as the extra 16 CU and whatever interconnects .....be balanced against a 360-308 mm2 difference.

I do not for 1 second believe in the PC rumour of 128 MB L2 cache even for PC, thats ridiculours, I would believe it was total die cache is my guess but we dont know. If it is 128MB on PC it has to be a stacked die arrangement.

Infinity cache would not be exciting if your loosing that much die space and a whole load of potential additional GPU power.

To me I am expecting, if it is true, for ps5 to be maybe 8 or 12 MB L2, that would be massive in itself - 32 MB L2 does not compute IMO unless its stacked and off die.

There are lots of unknows of course.
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I agree with you completely, there are lots of unknowns in this equation. We shall wait and see.

PS5 having 12MB of L2 cache would be massive differentiator.
 
Aceofspades said:
I agree with you completely, there are lots of unknowns in this equation. We shall wait and see.

PS5 having 12MB of L2 cache would be massive differentiator.
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Even 8MB would be huge in tandem with Cache coherency and Cache scrubbers, a big cache would not help if its not managed efficiently. And even 8MB would be a big cache for a GPU.

I am on the fence, either way, but if it is their it has to be performant vs cost, the cost saving is the 2 PHY controller saving so an extra 8 MB at most - but we dont know.

Just my thoughts.
 
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Lysandros said:
How can the difference between the I/O's be 'minor'? Does XSX's I/O have SRAM, two coprocessors and coherency engines? Also it seems that you are forgetting about XSX's larger memory bus.
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Yes you are correct about that, I didn't consider the bus width into these calculations which is a massive oversight tbh.

I stand corrected , but as I said before the main purpose of the calculations was to simply prove that using CUs % reduction to achieve similar % reduction of die size was simply not accurate
 
I am not here to stir shit up (for once, lol) but I am genuinely interested in the contribution of Sony's Japan staff to PS5? Or was the PS5 developed completely in the US? I understand that PS4 was a collaboration between Sony's US and Japan offices.
 
Lysandros said:
Are you sure that's the same thing? PS5's coherency engines are within the I/O complex. It's says 'SOC Fabric Coherency' and they seem to be sepatated from the I/O.
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I am not sure, obviously. I though that were talking about coherency between CPU/GPU part...
 
J_Gamer.exe said:
Yes and that pc version actually starts nearly half a second before, you can see this with the button press bar over mission start already has that graphic in a more avdance position.

Also this game uses that button press animation which takes over a second before the screen fades to black, this is where in next gen games, if devs want, they can eliminate that too.
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Thanks to my friend zaitsu zaitsu again, here is a more accurate calculator for PS5's loading:

kZJedMm.gif


NOTE: this is a frame calculator, 60fps = 1 sec. So if there is a frame drop or so in the video it could just make it look it's taking longer. Just so you know.
 
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M1chl said:
I am not sure, obviously. I though that were talking about coherency between CPU/GPU part...
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XSX also has Multimedia hardware accel, likely for outputing 4 instances as a server, so likely to be bigger here. But simply put, if you take off the 2 x GDDR6 PHY, you could fit roughly 8 MB in that space saved.

Just speculating, there are too many unknowns, Ps5 could have bigger CU for back compat with ps4, we just do not know.

And quite frankly, all the napkin maths in teh world, we will not know until AMD presents infinity cache and NDA is lifted.
 
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Ass of Can Whooping said:
Thank you Codemasters for ending the 120fps fad
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What's wrong with the 120fps fad as an option? If no one uses it, so be it, but let it be there for those that find it important.

With that said, Dirt hasn't impressed graphically in a loooooooooooooong time, so this was kind of what I expected. We'll get direct side-by-side comparisons for all the games soon, if Xbox looks bad in comparison to PS5 we'll know.
 
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