Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Andodalf said:
People Shat all over the XSX load times as a sign that it had a terrible SSD and that the PS5 would dog it.

People had a lot of Eggs in this basket, and they look really stupid.
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This was most evident a couple of months ago in this thread, https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox-series-s-load-times.1566891/
I told people that comparing PS5 next gen to XSS BC loading times was not valid. It was too easy for people to get caught up in the hype and forget about the realities of how older games are coded.
There was nothing wrong with people being hopeful for PS5 BC to have super fast loading but jumping to conclusions and negatively judging the XSS was poor form.
 
xJObf6O.jpg
 
dimaveshkin said:
Cyberpunk 2077 was promised to work as BC title before it receives proper update somewhen next year. Should we also expect worse loading times for PS5 there too? This game gonna receive huge media coverage. Comparisons gonna pop-up here and there all the time. Sony have really messed up their messaging with "near-instant loading times".
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Pretty much. They've really dug themselves into a hole with this one. They better hope that cross gen games optomized for next gen consoles like dirt 5, cold war, assassin's creed..etc.. aren't slower on ps5 or else this is going to poss big trouble long term.
 
Mahavastu said:
I think the following was not mentioned yet, but might be of interest to some:
it seems the PS5 is quiter in horizontal position than in vertical position.

In the timestamped video below (german, sorry) the noise was measured. Sadly I do not know anything about "sone" and "decibel", but they say that everything below 1 sone can not be heard. Maybe someone else can fill in more.

in menu:
horizontal: 0.1 sone
vertical: 0.1 sonse

digital downloaded (without drive usage)
Spiderman Miles Morales PS5:
horizontal: 0.8 sone
vertical: 1.1 sonse

God of war 2018 PS4:
horizontal: 0.6 sone
vertical: 0.9 sonse

with drive (they probably mean that the drive is spinning and running a game, but it was confusing)
horizontal: 1.3 sone
vertical: 1.0 sonse

timestamped video, german
Click to expand...


Welcome - Shuttle Europe

We manufacture reliable Slim PCs, Mini PCs, and All-in-One PCs for the office – and for extremely demanding professional applications.
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Around 30-35dB max = really really quiet, whisper is about the same level

Didnt check how did they measure, but if this is close up, like under 1m (arms lenght) = it is super quiet machine and position difference doesnt matter anyway, so small levels

If it id from 2m = still quiet
 
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PS5 smaller and slower SSD than XSX
Also no VRR

SO this is the power of RDNA3.

I expected just 2 things from PS5: Vastly faster SSD, and Dualsense to be neat. Turns out the only thing the PS5 entices with me left is the Dualsense. Just hope it isn't used by first party only.
 
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jamwest24 said:
Do you think that's it or is it just some lame "We're surprised backwards compatible games load faster a lot of the time on Series X" comparison video..

I certainly hope you're right.
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I finally got around to watching the video.. most of it was centered around the BC being able to run at consistent 60fps across the majority of games. They didn't really focus on loading times... and they made some interesting comments towards the end of the video around the GPU capabilities, along with more "surprises" coming soon (I'm guessing at the next embargo - supposedly the 11th based googling...).
 
dimaveshkin said:
I expected the fact that loading times are not in linear relation with SSD speeds, but what I didn't expect is negative result from a superior hardware.

Sony: claims to remove every single bottleneck from the storage (and developers don't even need to do anything extra), resulting into near 100x loading times increase
People: Yea, that's really cool. It's a really strong point against competitor. We might get lower resolution, but loading times are gonna be immense.
Sony: Brings worse loading performance than a direct competitor with two times slower SSD in not so old games.

Why would people get mad at underdelivering, right?
I see, that Spider-Man is fast, but how much of that is on console's part, and how much is dev's commitment to fully utilize it? We gonna see a lot of cross-gen games in following year or two, and lot's of them not gonna have bigger adjustment than res and fps numbers from past-gen code. And devs might be just as comfortable about times they get during normal development just as you are right now. Why should they care if it's the same or a bit worse than XSX, if it still reasonable and don't require extra work? But we as customers should care about promises being delivered. Should we expect worse results for third-party cross-gen games too? It won't look good for Sony to have longer loading times with that bravado about high-end custom SSD. For now we need to wait to see at least how games optimized for next-gen compares on both platforms, but I already know that i will temper my expectations by a lot.

Sony is constantly giving small unpleasant surprises here and there and it really worsen the overall feeling from the purchase I made. And the fact that competitor is actually checking every box that Sony misses is not helping. That's why i said that Sony need to address this issue and fix it. As a customer I expect best performance from the hardware and i don't feel it delivers it yet.
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the Series X is a more powerful console. fact that the PS5 is that damn close is pretty great IMO.

I favor green but this gen I expect to be the closer than we have seen before. win win all around for gamers
 
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danielJackson said:

Welcome - Shuttle Europe

We manufacture reliable Slim PCs, Mini PCs, and All-in-One PCs for the office – and for extremely demanding professional applications.
www.shuttle.eu www.shuttle.eu

Around 30-35dB max = really really quiet, whisper is about the same level

Didnt check how did they measure, but if this is close up, like under 1m (arms lenght) = it is super quiet machine and position difference doesnt matter anyway, so small levels
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the video is timestamped and shows the test environment.
Looks like about 50cm.
Thanks, you were one of those I hoped to jump in. You had a discussion about audio a few days ago, right? :messenger_grinning:
 
Mr Moose said:
I'm happy for them, I feel they needed this win.
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I am too, honestly. The BC results are showing that the compromise Microsoft made with the Xbox One by using a higher level API was not for nothing and there are tangible benefits even for the end consumer. It shows that both companies aren't dumb and have good reasons for going their own routes that have their own unique benefits.
 
Andodalf said:
People Shat all over the XSX load times as a sign that it had a terrible SSD and that the PS5 would dog it.

People had a lot of Eggs in this basket, and they look really stupid.
Click to expand...

and what about the next seven years and all the future games on ps5. Why are you disregarding those times and those games, you know they are going to be much faster than the xboxs load times as those games will be made with the ssd in mind.

No matter how much shade you try to throw on the ps5, today has been a fantastic day for the ps5, and according to many reviews its the console that people should be buying, not the one your trying to push,
 
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kyliethicc said:
A lot of the PS5 UI reminds me of PS3. And the fat big console, the customizations, even the Pulse headset.

Kinda makes me wonder if Jim Ryan really loved the PS3 or something
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You really think Jim Ryan actually made any choices in the UI or console design? Im doubtful.
 
Sorry if this is a stupid question but does Spiderman use RT for lighting at all or just reflections? And if it does use it for general lighting/shadows does it do this in performance mode as well?
 
BlueHawk357 said:
PS5 smaller and slower SSD than XSX
Also no VRR

SO this is the power of RDNA3.

I expected just 2 things from PS5: Vastly faster SSD, and Dualsense to be neat. Turns out the only thing the PS5 entices with me left is the Dualsense. Just hope it isn't used by first party only.
Click to expand...
If this is a real thought I feel sorry for anyone who has the pleasure of talking to you in the real world.
 
Can't believe I'm going to be replaying Killzone Shadowfall. That was my first game on PS4 launch, maybe I'll make it my first in PS5.

Honestly I'll be busy with GoT, Days Gone, and GoW, which I never really started (wish they would bump the res in GoW). I get to rebuy Spider-Man, which I also didn't really start on PS4 yet. May even go back to Infamous for a bit. Gonna be fun. Not really sure about Series X though, maybe Falconeer or Halo 5 w/ autoHDR. Still have to play Gears 5 or Valhalla, but I get bored with both types quick. Hope it doesn't sit unused like my Scorpio edition.
 
bitbydeath said:
No talk, just flicks over to it when moving around.



Since it's not being talked about yet there may still be a few changes coming.
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I see what looks to be the internet browser is there too. I figured it would be in the media section.

Loving the home screen explore area. Makes the UI feel alive and always up to date.
 
Loving what I'm reading so far. I wouldn't pay much heed to some games not loading super fast in BC, etc.

There are probably a TON of games that have patches on the way that haven't hit yet. I expect loads of games that haven't been updated in ages to start getting them over the next few weeks.

Seems the Xbox has some advantages to BC, but that's expected. They cashed a lot of chips there and, truly, they had to as their launch and nigh-launch lineup has(and continues with Medium also) crumbled.

Additionally, Sony is known for their firmware updates(lolStability), so things like further BC enhancements, additions, even 1440p support could well be added at any time.


Curious what these "surprises" are, because whatever it is must be coming in an update or is under HEAVY NDA, if its even there. I mean, these consoles are in folks' hands already. Only a matter of time til its out, unless its a nothing burger.
 
Does anyone know if there will be a patch for last of us 2?i am eager to play with some benefits to ps5..what naughty dog up to also these days?
 
HoofHearted said:
I finally got around to watching the video.. most of it was centered around the BC being able to run at consistent 60fps across the majority of games. They didn't really focus on loading times... and they made some interesting comments towards the end of the video around the GPU capabilities, along with more "surprises" coming soon (I'm guessing at the next embargo - supposedly the 11th based googling...).
Click to expand...

Yeah, their comments about not hitting the limit of the GPU was interesting. I'm also wondering if there's something with the CPU as well.. Really can't wait to see some X-rays of the chip to see if it's got a unified cache or not.
 
So in short.
- Microsoft put a lot of effort on BC to make sure every single game took advantage of the console's speed. And Sony was like "hey, let's build a PS4 inside the PS5!" and call it a day.
- Seems like VRR will be available at launch, because it's already confirmed to support it.
- Also playing and copying games from an external SSD was already confirmed but it will probably added at launch. Link to the holy Road to PS5 to confirm this.
- The console is cool and quiet, being a big boi worked out after all.
- Optimized games load so damn fast, can't wait to see more next gen games (or next gen versions of existing games).
- And Miles Morales, a cross gen game, is a next gen showcase... not that surprising tbh. RT on PS5 seems to be better than expected, running the game at native 4K/30 with RT reflections and highly detailed textures is an achievement.
 
Snowdonhoffen said:
So in short.
- Microsoft put a lot of effort on BC to make sure every single game took advantage of the console's speed. And Sony was like "hey, let's build a PS4 inside the PS5!" and call it a day.
- Seems like VRR will be available at launch, because it's already confirmed to support it.
- Also playing and copying games from an external SSD was already confirmed but it will probably added at launch. Link to the holy Road to PS5 to confirm this.
- The console is cool and quiet, being a big boi worked out after all.
- Optimized games load so damn fast, can't wait to see more next gen games (or next gen versions of existing games).
- And Miles Morales, a cross gen game, is a next gen showcase... not that surprising tbh. RT on PS5 seems to be better than expected, running the game at native 4K/30 with RT reflections and highly detailed textures is an achievement.
Click to expand...

I agree, except for a few things, but yea, I hate people saying Miles is a cross-gen game, I get the idea, but currently, Miles has to be one of the games where Raytracing is seriously something you want to have even with the performance issues it brings (30fps). Control is the only game I think competes, but no, Miles is definitely the game where Raytracing looks the most beautiful on to date.
 
Snowdonhoffen said:
So in short.
- Microsoft put a lot of effort on BC to make sure every single game took advantage of the console's speed. And Sony was like "hey, let's build a PS4 inside the PS5!" and call it a day.
- Seems like VRR will be available at launch, because it's already confirmed to support it.
- Also playing and copying games from an external SSD was already confirmed but it will probably added at launch. Link to the holy Road to PS5 to confirm this.
- The console is cool and quiet, being a big boi worked out after all.
- Optimized games load so damn fast, can't wait to see more next gen games (or next gen versions of existing games).
- And Miles Morales, a cross gen game, is a next gen showcase... not that surprising tbh. RT on PS5 seems to be better than expected, running the game at native 4K/30 with RT reflections and highly detailed textures is an achievement.
Click to expand...

Copying games from an external was never confirmed. Playing PS4 was.

Go watch it again.

When was VRR or ALLM confirmed?
 
Snowdonhoffen said:
So in short.
- Microsoft put a lot of effort on BC to make sure every single game took advantage of the console's speed. And Sony was like "hey, let's build a PS4 inside the PS5!" and call it a day.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that's true. The reason BC games are loading faster on xsx is most likely because it has a faster CPU; these last gen games are not using the next-gen I/O architecture and rely entirely on the CPU for decompression. There could also be some other OS issue that needs patching on PS5. But this loading speed difference is not because of a limitation of PS5s SSD or BC capabilities.
 
JonkyDonk said:
I'm not sure that's true. The reason BC games are loading faster on xsx is most likely because it has a faster CPU; these last gen games are not using the next-gen I/O architecture and rely entirely on the CPU for decompression. There could also be some other OS issue that needs patching on PS5. But this loading speed difference is not because of a limitation of PS5s SSD or BC capabilities.
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100 MHz isn't going to make a difference like that in load speeds.. But OS stuff and a few other things maybe.
And we have hints that the PS5 CPU might even have unified cache, which would put it ahead of the Series X in most ways if true.
 
gamechanger87 said:
Copying games from an external was never confirmed. Playing PS4 was.

Go watch it again.

When was VRR or ALLM confirmed?
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Did you even clicked on the link?
"You can leave your games in the hard drive and play them directly from there thus saving the pricier SSD storage for your PS5 titles or you can copy your active PlayStation 4 titles to the SSD"
Edit: If your talking about copying PS5 games to the external storage, then yes, that was never confirmed.

Got you, confirmed since march,:
blog.playstation.com

Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]

Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.
blog.playstation.com blog.playstation.com
KL7qyqf.png
 
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jamwest24 said:
100 MHz isn't going to make a difference like that in load speeds.. But OS stuff and a few other things maybe.
And we have hints that the PS5 CPU might even have unified cache, which would put it ahead of the Series X in most ways if true.
Click to expand...
It's 300 MHz. Remember these older games aren't taking advantage of SMT, so the 3.8 GHz CPU is helping with the faster decompression. Any of the customizations and next-gen features of the consoles are useless when it comes to BC titles that aren't coded to support that stuff, and the brute force of faster CPU and GPU is what makes the difference.
 


I know a few have posted this video, but he mentions the HDMI 2.1 body being later in finalizing the spec and possibly delaying Variable Refresh Rate for Sony's TVs and PS5. He then mentions having correct VRR helps in a lot of areas, including eliminating screen tearing. This obviously is sheer speculation, but I wonder if Microsoft just forced the resolution and VRR for their consoles before the hdmi 2.1 spec was finalized, which is why we've seen so much screen tearing in their games. I'm sure both Sony and Microsoft plan to patch in proper VRR later.
 
JonkyDonk said:
It's 300 MHz. Remember these older games aren't taking advantage of SMT, so the 3.8 GHz CPU is helping with the faster decompression. Any of the customizations and next-gen features of the consoles are useless when it comes to BC titles that aren't coded to support that stuff, and the brute force of faster CPU and GPU is what makes the difference.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I gotcha. Still from my own PC build experience of comparing different clocked CPUs for gaming, the CPU clocks aren't going to 1/2 or 1/3 the load times like we've seen in a few titles on either side. The Witcher 3 loads dramatically faster on PS5 as well. So I highly doubt that's it.
 
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jamwest24 said:
Yeah, I gotcha. Still from my own PC build experience of comparing different clocked CPUs for gaming, the CPU clocks aren't going to 1/2 or 1/3 the load times like we've seen in a few titles on either side. The Witcher 3 loads dramatically faster on PS5 as well. So I highly doubt that'sit.
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Like I said before, I do suspect that there is something else going on too on the software side. I think a patch will come at some point to improve BC on PS5 and that might improve these load times, at least to some extent.
 
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