ethomaz
Banned
Exactly but he will try to create narratives lol
The game is what it is... the dev choose to not change the resolutions used in PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.
Even Alex Bathallia confirmed it.
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- Status
The game is what it is... the dev choose to not change the resolutions used in PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.
Even Alex Bathallia confirmed it.
Sinthor
Gold Member
It's silly to think that there will only be improvements from one side or the other when it comes to performance and utilizing the hardware. All this developer was commenting on was that there are some issues now that may be tool related for Microsoft that are causing some difficulties and that as those issues are resolved over time, the issues themselves will be remediated. It has NOTHING to do with Sony and their tools or hardware. And OF COURSE there will be improvements and better optimization on both sides. Will that be enough to make a visible gap between the machines? I doubt it will do much, but it IS possible.
I just don't understand how people get in the mindset that "yep, MS will have better performance as they improve things, but Sony is already good so they won't improve at all. Yay Microsoft!' Or vice versa. It's just an ignorant attitude. Both machines will have improvements over time. By the time the generation is 3-4 years in, it should be pretty much there. Of course, that's about the time we're going to see more MS exclusives as well, so that will be good news for Xbox owners!
Just chill on the tools thing. It's not a zero sum game. It's not all or nothing.
assurdum
Banned
Did you even cared to watch the video? He said also the TF difference means nothing...
dcmk7
Banned
Where he literally says they are just numbers and not that important.
dcmk7
Banned
He clearly hasn't.
Just wants to try and start yet another console war.
He just came back from a console warring ban I believe?
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
The video of the interview you are quoting talks about how insignificant that 2TF difference is.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah but that 2 tflops gaf amounts to only 18% difference in power. Thats 18% more pixels. So if a PS5 game is 1440p or 3.6 million pixels, you are looking at 4.3 million pixels for the XSX version. thats well below the 5.6 million pixels you get from 1800p.
If the devs were to put the extra power towards framerates, 18% for a 30 fps game means 5 more fps. Who wants to play games at 35 fps. Best case scenario, they give you a locked 30 fps or maybe some higher quality graphics effects like higher quality shadows.
its not nothing, but its really not going to make much of a difference since the ps5 should be able to render certain effects better because of its higher clocks.
i think thats why the comparisons have been all over the place. The control dev's tools argument is plausible, but hes talking about rewriting code to take advantage of the new XSX features which is kinda weird since they arent using any RDNA 2.0 features except for Ray tracing. if anything, the guy says that tflops dont really matter.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You are creating this ridiculous narrative that the devs are lazy and thats why the resolution is 4kcb on the ps5.
Read your own words.
So they are so lazy that they changed everything else with new physics, water, ssd enhancements and chose to keep the 4kcb resolution because they are lazy and didnt bother changing to native res. Got it.
ethomaz
Banned
My claim is absolutely true no matter how sad you are about it.
I don't have the reason they choose to maintain the resolution like it was on legacy system so they "didn't bother or have time to" because any reason fits in the two options.. Devs needs to work to change things... that was not the case in the resolution setup... they left how it was on PS4 Pro / Xbox One X.
PS4 Pro: 2160p CBR with DRS
Xbox One X: 2160p with DRS
The power of the actual next-gen machines will only affect how agressive the DRS works.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
These devs can't just go out there and rewrite everything.
Every cross gen game is just tweaking code and using the opportunity to work on aspects that will be very important for the pipeline going forward. The rendering will be where devs spend less time on, unless it has RT in which case is a good way to get the work going. Data management is where most effort is being put ATM, as we see in Control and Avengers, and that's the smart bet as that's the big next gen jump and the one aspect that will promote studios to completely revamp their pipeline.
Every cross gen game is just tweaking code and using the opportunity to work on aspects that will be very important for the pipeline going forward. The rendering will be where devs spend less time on, unless it has RT in which case is a good way to get the work going. Data management is where most effort is being put ATM, as we see in Control and Avengers, and that's the smart bet as that's the big next gen jump and the one aspect that will promote studios to completely revamp their pipeline.
Dibils2k
Member
maybe they tried increasing the resolution cap on PS5 but it effected the framerate... so they chose to keep resolution (hitting max alot more than PS4Pro) and improve other areas of the visuals
either way, its not lazy or halfassed port
ethomaz
Banned
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Dibils2k
Member
how is that "they did not bother"??.... if raising resolution means not a solid 60fps, its called prioritization/optimisation
also you do realize saying they did not bother is pretty much saying its lazy/halfassed lol do you understand english?
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ethomaz
Banned
So they did not have time... yes.
Edit - No... it is not the same... when you do a schedule for upgrade features in your game you have things that you don't bother and others things you won't have time to do... that is what happens.
The resolution was perfectly fine for them... so they did not bother to change it and choose to focus in others parts of the render.
I believe people are living the FUD narrative created by MS fans that ports are just a slide thing changed in few seconds.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
The Remedy guy basically explains how the cross gen period doesn't allow much and how it makes it harder to port for XSS. They are bound by decisions made years ago and it's basically picking from there and just pushing it higher in a linear fashion.
We need games made with XSS as the lowest common denominator and they aren't here yet.
We need games made with XSS as the lowest common denominator and they aren't here yet.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Got it.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Awesome! Good for you! You'll enjoy the hell out that system! Not sure where you're located but in some places it's still a bit difficult to find. Meaning you can't necessarily just walk into a store and get one. Enjoy the setup and first few hours spent with a new generation console!Got it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, above all we need games made on new engines that use UE5 features or mesh shaders.
3liteDragon
Member
Was just about to say...its best to watch the entire video and see what he says about the Series S too.... Also about TF.
No need to only focus on what fits a certain agenda.
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Neo Blaster
Member
C'mon, more 'wait for da tools' excuses?
thatJohann
Member
Looks like Dolby Vision for gaming is rolling out to Alpha insiders on Xbox Series S | X. Cool stuff. Can't wait to try it out.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Seems like MS once again ran rampant with new reworked APIs like back in X1X era. To do same thing just....cough....differently
3liteDragon
Member
carloseduardocd
Member
Yes, but watching the full video (he said about tools in 2 different questions), sounds PS5 is easier to develop.
The XDK to GDK transition sounds harder, because more rework on game engine. Maybe more trouble for small teams, like Bloober Team on Observer System Redux next-gen port.
But it's not something like "power locked". Both SDKs are in infancy, but PS5 SDK is not a huge change against PS4 SDK.
Shmunter
Member
What's not common sense is boiling down system performance just to one measure.
It's like saying your hands are large, therefore you must have a big cock. When we all know that's simply not it.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Costco Canada had some online a few days ago. And ran out of stock in about an hour.
For anyone looking for systems which are impossible to get (PS5, SS, SX), look into Costco first. The drawback is it'll be bundled with extra costs (mine came with an extra controller), but consoles at Costco are treated as toys so it has indefinite return policy. It is not part of 90 day electronics.
So if the system bombs 3 years later, return it. You can even google it as people ask the same question.
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mejin
Member
What's not common sense is boiling down system performance just to one measure.
It's like saying your hands are large, therefore you must have a big cock. When we all know that's simply not it.
Be polite.
Say it is to compensate for the lack of other departments.
That same dev...in the exact same video.....literally said TF dont tell the whole story.
Are you serious right now?
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Good news for NT.
But the motion capture stage and equipment is only half the story.
Once the motion data has been captured, the more important area is how that data is cleaned up and used in the game.
Let's hope that Motion Matching is their target. It's groundbreaking tech.
Thank you.
Same dev, that ppl wanna pick and choose what he said, also literally said this in the exact same clip.
wtf....lol
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mitchman
Gold Member
But 2.23GHz is also higher than 1.8GHz. And there is recent information out suggesting that higher frequency but less CUs is just as efficient.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Read my other responses before getting outraged.
Shmunter
Member
Relax it's classic ribbing, don't take it too seriouslyBe polite.
Say it is to compensate for the lack of other departments.
mitchman
Gold Member
SSfox
Member
Bruh i'm also crazy hype about Ragnarok, but i don't like that some people are annoying our Lord Cory Barlog in Twitter, let this guy work in peace, when he feels it's time to reveal his game he will.
That being said i'm spamming Cory and SSM to release a GOW collection edition that include all PS2 and PSP games, if Jimbo isn't planning to make PS5 PS123 BC then give us GOW collection.
That being said i'm spamming Cory and SSM to release a GOW collection edition that include all PS2 and PSP games, if Jimbo isn't planning to make PS5 PS123 BC then give us GOW collection.
Zadom
Member
BGs
Industry Professional
When I see things like that I think ... Which is better? power? or efficiency? What matters are the results. And if in the future the results remain the same (in proportion) it will be of little use that XSX is "a little better" in gross power if the results do not represent it. XSX will improve your tools, undoubtedly, and you need it. But it would be reckless or irresponsible to think that Sony is not going to improve theirs as well. The generation is already served. It will depend on the quality of the catalog of their respective games.
BETA Max was better than VHS.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
12 is bigger than 10
5.5 is bigger than 2.4
2233 is bigger than 1825
My mommy told me.
5.5 is bigger than 2.4
2233 is bigger than 1825
My mommy told me.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
This is interesting because normally in cases where it's BC or if it's a game like Avengers any advantages an XSX port has are dismissed as just being BC. Does the GDK make it harder or easier to make Xbox games? It seems like the narrative changes to either dismiss Xbox advantages or play up perceived weaknesses.
Elog
Member
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SSfox
Member
I like how this guy try to act like devs mastered PS5 already but not Xbox, that's total wrong, PS5 is also far from being mastered, actually even more than Xbox, when devs will start to master ps5 ssd you'll start see things on ps5 that can't be done on any other plateform including PC.
Those clowns can keep trying hard, but Ps5 is and will continue to be the place to play, facts cannot be changed it's that simple.
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carloseduardocd
Member
You're talking about different things.
First, it's a guy from Remedy. His point of view is not universal. The Rockstar, Codemasters, etc. guys would say different points of view.
Second, BC is other story. Please, study about gen9aware.
Third, ESRAM was more difficult for Xbox One in 2013. Harder do have good optimization on game engines. In 2015 no one was talking about ESRAM anymore. They found the best optimization on game engines and it's ok. The Remedy guy was telling the same point about GDK. Xbox One was using XDK, other SDK. The new GDK, unifying PC, Xbox One X|S and Xbox Series X|S in same pipeline possibly demmands more code engine rewrite for Xbox next-gen consoles. With game engines completely rewritten in couple years, this subject will be done.
And his opinion about GDK is not universal. Wanna examples?
Read about this Dirt 5 interview, Source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/
Q: What is it like developing on Xbox Series X?
A: Transitioning development to a new console platform, like Xbox Series X, is usually very painful. You have to deal with new tools, new workflows, new ways of thinking.
This time around the team at Xbox brought me a new toolset called the Game Development Kit, which they already had up and running on Xbox One.
This meant that we could make the transition much earlier. In fact, we started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware. This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.
For me, the most important thing in making a videogame is the relationships. Working with Xbox, is a partnership – the team at Xbox is committed to helping us make a great videogame and they've shown that to me again and again. That means being open and honest about our experiences; what we've loved and perhaps even what we've found difficult in development has had meaningful, visible impact on the updates that I get for the tools for Series X. (Shout out to our development partner at Xbox, Richard Hackett! Thanks Rich!)
I've never worked on a console launch where, while we're still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with.
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Ok let me see if I can follow your logic:
Dev says XSS is a pain for cross gen development.
Tools will get better for all current gen consoles, according to the same dev......and somehow PS5 will start to lag behind the XSX because of higher TF. But PS5 isnt lagging behind XSX right now.
For cross gen versions that TF difference isnt making much of a difference right now for XSX, but XSS is a pain. PS5 and XSX cross gen game analysis are close enough that it doesnt even matter in the end. And XSX runs BC games great, PS5 a step behind in comparison.
Do you feel that the TF of the XSS is no problem? Because if you do, why in the world is it gonna be such a big difference between XSX and PS5..... Ppl tried to claim for months the XSS TF dont matter and yet we have a dev saying its a pain to have XSS as a target....for cross gen games....
Cant have it both ways. And I doubt he just meant the ram when talking about the XSS.
Tools will also get better for PS5.
JTCx
Member
David jaffet does
- Status