I think it is kind of weird to expect a major difference in sequentially released sim games on a given platform for two reasons. First, they are mostly representing real tracks, which if captured properly would not change much between iterations unless a new configuration of the track was made in real life. Furthermore, it is expensive as hell to laser scan tracks so I cannot imagine it is something that is done each time a new release comes out. Rather, I'd imagine they use old data until it becomes obvious that it needs to be updated. Second, despite what some people tend to think, when you work with fixed hardware, especially when operating at 60 fps, graphics are not going to improve a whole lot when using the same console because performance does not randomly increase. Sure, there are some optimizations, but the general power level of a console will not change.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
I think it is kind of weird to expect a major difference in sequentially released sim games on a given platform for two reasons. First, they are mostly representing real tracks, which if captured properly would not change much between iterations unless a new configuration of the track was made in real life. Furthermore, it is expensive as hell to laser scan tracks so I cannot imagine it is something that is done each time a new release comes out. Rather, I'd imagine they use old data until it becomes obvious that it needs to be updated. Second, despite what some people tend to think, when you work with fixed hardware, especially when operating at 60 fps, graphics are not going to improve a whole lot when using the same console because performance does not randomly increase. Sure, there are some optimizations, but the general power level of a console will not change.
Terbinator
Member
You don't have to respond to the shit posting guys.
In other news,
DLC seemingly spotted for FM6. Anyone got any HQ PGR4 'Ring rain videos at hand?
In other news,
Caparo T1
MaxwellParrish
Member
So your point is that is perfectly suitable to its use?
There's one situation where it looks bad, and it is when you put the free camera on photomode right under a tree and move it. They don't need to be passing fast to look convincing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2YKyr77_rw
Yep!
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
What the hell are you talking about? Are you saying that any racer that uses real tracks and cars is always going to look the same? How do you account for the cars in Driveclub looking better than Forza 6 cars? It's not just about representing something real, it's about adding next gen features that bring it to life. That's why Driveclub gets much closer to photorealism than Forza 6. Let's be honest here, they could have patched Forza 5, which is what they've done in my opinion.
This is a huge, huge gulf in visuals. Forza's cars look so detached from the world and the rain effects and lighting pale in comparison.
While T10 could improve the lighting/shading on the vehicles, DC has more RAM to work with per frame and is on a more powerful system. T10 just seem content with poor lighting/shading in Forza. Just wish they could have at least cleaned up the jaggies.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Yeah, I understand that the XB1 isn't quite as powerful as the PS4 but surely you'd expect improvement in lighting, especially on the cars. When you watch Driveclub, the cars look as if they're part of the world but in Forza 5/6 they look as if they're on a world that's scrolling by.
Why did you mentioned me anyway? Why i mentioned F6 crowd? Reason is that the member who mentioned "2d sprites doesn't do that" play FM6. So i mentioned crowd in FM6. Good? Good.
MS should stop with the Forza brand a while and let T10 have 3 years for FM7 and make some noticeable graphical differences - FIX the lighting and shading! But MS won't. Gotta have a Forza out yearly and FM hitting in 2018 might mess with their schedule with Horizon.
I didn't say that there isn't any loss of detail. I said that the details remain more noticeable. Remember that this convo starts with nib95 claiming that FM6 stands to gain more than Driveclub from gif compression... this simply isn't true, because to start with FM6 doesn't have poor texture assets that benefit from being hidden, and it doesn't contain a lot of macro details by the trackside that can look better by being shrunk down.
Nib is saying that something along the lines of this...
to this (keeping in mind that FM6 should look better in the rain)...
... is benefitting FM6 more in the comparison. Which is quite clearly BS.
Dictator93
Member
The entire thread is basically about disecting tech details even in ways that are non-obvious under average gameplay scenarios.
Arguing against scrutiny of this variety makes nearly the whole thread forfeit as it is an argument AGAINST being particular and precise.
That "one situation" is actually every situation... you just do not happen to notice it.
If you cannot see sprite rotation, then more power to you. I can see it quite well in every clip shown so far. And indeed, even in the one you just posted.
Yes it is not so noticable at racing speed... but if this thread never covered minutiae... then there would be no point to it.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
It's still a year though isn't it. I'm sure a year is a long time to 'add' something other than weather.
Aceofspades
Banned
Sure as hell those extra fps's didn't help F6 to look better than DC.
T10 should do something about their lightning engine , Im 100% X1 has more ram than PS3 (GT6 has dynamic lightning)
son of a Sven
Banned
It's a fucking racing game. What other situations are there?
I mentioned you because you mentioned FM6...
I'm not saying you shouldn't have, but pixelbox is acting as though people were trashing DC's 2d assets whilst praising FM6's... I'm just pointing out that those bringing up the 2d nature of DC's leaves, didn't actually mention FM6 at all. Good? Good.
Dictator93
Member
Read my above statement.
The hypocrisy of people lambasting Forza for a detail that is nigh invisible at high speed vs. the exact same tech being used in DC is extremely comical: is this a graphics thread or a system's war thread?
Just reading the last 2 pages of this thread and I'm in amazement. I can't believe someone said drying lines in the rain would be a good tradeoff of another 8 cars on track. Are you kidding me?
Anyone dismissing gameplay additions like that in a simulator really need to get out this thread. Gameplay > graphics, always in sims.
Anyone dismissing gameplay additions like that in a simulator really need to get out this thread. Gameplay > graphics, always in sims.
Looks like both, which is sad but not surprising.
Duallusion
Member
This thread used to be a low-res, flickering shadow of that legendary last-gen face-off thread I loved so much but the fun-factor is slowly getting there lol. Hopefully we'll reach at least OT3 by the end of this gen. 
son of a Sven
Banned
Anyone focusing on 2d sprites (crowds, trees, foliage) in a racer is so missing the point.
Terbinator
Member
By all means, tell me how they're not?
And as someone who's completed the Sebring 300 event a drying line would be greatly welcomed for gameplay purposes - I'm not talking about a visual effect, I'm talking about an actual, physical one. You're racing the same line for three hours straight with 23 (15) other cars, it should be drying.
Foutrologue
Banned
This thread has frankly become nothing but a useless trainwreck. You are wasting time feeding trolls mate.
So the only graphics we should focus on is the lighting on cars and how good the asphalt texture is from a top down perspective?
Your posts are ridiculous.
It's not even worth pointing out how wrong you are in most of them.
Heck, 30fps vs 60fps is an easy enough concept for most people to understand. I suppose you can't grasp that?
Really, really simple to understand. It's kind of funny. Even funnier, thinking 6 is anything near just a patch. That's like saying New Vegas was a patch to Fallout 3.
The fact that it's also 24 people online says it all.
Track drying over an endurance race != drying lines.
We know that the weather isn't dynamic so that isn't supported in the engine. You'd need to incorporate some fancy water particle system on the road which would be unfeasible at 60fps.
Do you even care about sim games if your arguing this? Your priorities are all wrong. I'm glad T10 have got their priorities right.
Terbinator
Member
My initial posts highlight the issue with that though. For the vast majority of players the 24 player races will be few and far between.
Well you can continue to get caught up on wording, i've already labelled up above what I meant.
Again, as per my post, it was hypothesising.
Because you say so?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I was just thinking that. People saying DC 2D leaves aren't noticeable when playing the game, and then they go ahead and bash FM6's partially 2D crowds. Wasn't Halo Community closed because of bullshit like this?
You haven't addressed anything. The fact that I'll be playing this with 7 other friends and there's still 16 players extra on the track is way more of a notable feature than something which only apparent on a fraction of the tracks which support the rain.
Well, I'd rather have a feature which is enabled in 100% of the races than a smaller percentage of them. Especially when most races are only 3 laps each. So, yes, based on that logic, your priorities are wrong.
Edit: Your still dismissing that this couldn't be a trade off. You can't drop 8 cars to enable a full road water simulation system. When you drive on a water logged track, it dissipates rather than disappears. Puddles would have to alter, which would also include geometry since their 3d. You see where I'm going with this.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Are you new here or are you forgetting every Driveclub thread?
Claiming a sim-racer's sequel is basically "a patch" is not keeping with the topic. By this logic basically every sequel to a game that doesn't make a generation jump along the way is basically "a patch". Not just GT5 to GT6... but also GT3 to GT4, and GT1 to GT2. The game's see incremental graphical upgrades, and larger feature upgrades (such as adding night and rain, increasing number of racers, having almost double the track count, etc). What prior examples (outside of something fanciful like Ridge Racer) are you using as the standard here for sequels? Because something like FM2 to FM3 is a serious anomaly.
I don't even know what you're implying here. What about Driveclub threads relates to the post you've just quoted?
son of a Sven
Banned
I'd say the lighting on cars and track matters a lot, asphalt texture less so. But as you're racing, trees and crowds simply don't matter. It's such bullshit nitpicking from fanboys trying to one-up each other. I wish this thread didn't exist because it just brings out the worst in people.
You'd honestly be surprised how much good this thread is actually doing. Because the posts were going to exist anyway... but they would instead be in the threads of all the various games.
No you aren't.
You're making false assumptions.
Forza 6 didn't "just add weather". It's no "patch", and pushing that opinion has nothing to do with graphics. The hours of commentary, showcases, and hundreds of cars with fully realized engine bays is not just a patch. Those fully rendered engines and parts are also visual graphic upgrades.
Forza 6's effects (and there are tons of new ones) are limited by framerate (double DC's). It still brings rain, night, evening, day, dust, leaves blowing in the wind, planes flying overhead, helicopters, infields with hundreds of cars, RVs, emergency equipment, tents, food vendors, smoke wafting across tracks off of BBQs, balloons (small ones), hot air balloons, moving carnivals off some tracks, fog, haze, individual puddles with depth based physics, etc...etc.. All visual based stuff.
Now all that, that's on subject. Your "patch" crap ignores the mass of voice overs to events, 50+ showcase events that covers nearly 100 years across racing and special moments from it. The changes in physics caused by weather or night being cooler. Changes to the entire leveling and pay out system. An entirely new career mode. The doubling of tracks and on and on.
Terbinator
Member
Fine, you prefer that it's 24 players.
Again, fine. You can prefer that it's 24 players on track without varied track conditions at 3 laps each...
But I never said it could though. It's literally there in the sentence :"It's difficult to make the judgement call of what the 8 extra cars came at the cost of..." I was playing devils advocate in regards to the drying track.
Lion Heart
Banned
So guys what do you think is the best looking racing game currently, overall?
Mario Kart 8.
Night, evening, day are not in one race cuz TOD is not dynamic. So, it's not so demanding graphical stuff in FM6.
Im going to stick my neck out here but anyway. I've been playing DC lately, not lots, but seeing some of the shots i see make my jaw hit the floor. When I've played it looks nothing like the shots i see, their has been a few moments when i go yes that looks great, but to be honest their has been more times when i think it looks really bad and generally very average most of the time. I have only played F6 demo and im not saying F6 is better looking than DC at all but it is easier for to me to take terrible pics and make DC look shit than good. IMO
TheAdmiester
Member
Nobody claimed otherwise.
This thread used to be a low-res, flickering shadow of that legendary last-gen face-off thread I loved so much but the fun-factor is slowly getting there lol. Hopefully we'll reach at least OT3 by the end of this gen.
hear hear.
It was a thread of tears, laughs... and many many casualties.
Terbinator
Member
PCars, but then I've been playing it since the KS launched and never on anything less than a GTX 680 (XB1 aside).
Aceofspades
Banned
Driveclub with a huge margin.
ProfessorMoran
Member
#Drive Club.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I'm not the most active of Driveclub players but I've clocked in quite a few hours and I would have never noticed the rotating stuff if I hadn't seen the videos of it here and had try to replicate it.
I think the foliage in DC is the best I have seen in a racing and probably the best I have seen in any game(but thats not really a fair comparison since you can't go into the vegatation in DC, and thats something that wouldn't work).
Its a much better method than the criss-crossed layers I seen in all other games.
While I haven't played DC myself, I have watched many people play the game via twitch and videos on youtube. My sentiments are the same about seeing it being played versus photos and gifs online. Its still a beautiful game don't get me wrong. But there is a disconnect.
Summer Haze
Banned
Try playing with the HUD off. Obviously that doesn't make the visuals better or anything, lol, but I've found that it does allow me to appreciate them more without the screen cluttered with so much crap.
The ElectrifyingAldo
Banned
Driveclub.
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