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[Synth]

I keep seeing people say the reason why GTS looks better than FM7 in some instances is because of less cars etc... Forza 5 has way less cars than FM7 so why does FM7 look better? Did the car models get worse because they added way more cars? Also don't Horizon and Mainline Forza share car models?

If you're talking about the car models themselves, wouldn't the obvious answer to this be that Forza Motorsport 6 and then 7 would be building on top of the cars already present in FM5?

Forza 5 has less cars because they all needed to be redone from Forza Motorsport 4 that released 2 years prior, the cars that FM6 then has would be the result of the 2 years of cars from FM5 combined with an additional 2 years of cars for FM6, and then the same again for FM7.

 

[Inf3cted_b3ast]

If you're talking about the car models themselves, wouldn't the obvious answer to this be that Forza Motorsport 6 and then 7 would be building on top of the cars already present in FM5?

Forza 5 has less cars because they all needed to be redone from Forza Motorsport 4 that released 2 years prior, the cars that FM6 then has would be the result of the 2 years of cars from FM5 combined with an additional 2 years of cars for FM6, and then the same again for FM7.

So why are ppl saying that GTS car models look better because the have less cars?

 

[Synth]

So why are ppl saying that GTS car models look better because the have less cars?

Because more attention to detail can be applied to each car, if there are less cars to divide the attention between? GTS is sub 200 cars in the same time both FM5 and FM6 were created.

We don't know how many individual people are working on car modelling between each series, but if its say accurate that a GTS car takes 1 person 6 months to model, unless you increased the number of people working on them, that same person would only have 3 months per car if the car count were to be doubled.

 

[//DEVIL//]

I found a comparison of Project Cars 2 (PC), Forza 7 (PC) and GT Sport using identical Corvettes on the same Nurburgring GP circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aTaOgmolw8

the car modeling / lighting on GTS makes it almost different generation compared to the other 2. like seriously. specially the lighting.. amazing.

 

[cooldawn]

Because more attention to detail can be applied to each car, if there are less cars to divide the attention between? GTS is sub 200 cars in the same time both FM5 and FM6 were created.

We don't know how many individual people are working on car modelling between each series, but if its say accurate that a GTS car takes 1 person 6 months to model, unless you increased the number of people working on them, that same person would only have 3 months per car if the car count were to be doubled.

How many cars did Turn 10 model?

We know Polyphony Digital modelled all of them internally.

 

[amar212]

How many cars did Turn 10 model?

We know Polyphony Digital modelled all of them internally.

Nobody knows. There were at least 4 outsourcing studios (Glasegg, Dhruva, Acme..) from India, China, Austria and US responsible for 360 Forza era. Now the Forzavista hsve quadripled the needed job and there is also significant amount of work done by Playground guys.

 

[Synth]

How many cars did Turn 10 model?

We know Polyphony Digital modelled all of them internally.

No idea. I'm not arguing the specifics, only explaining the logic that Inf3cted_b3ast was questioning. The perception is that Turn 10 produce more content in a shorter time window than Polyphony does with GT. How much of that is due to a greater number of people vs each person taking longer per car is something we wouldn't know.

The realities of development aren't something many people pay much concern, because at the end of the day, the cost for each game to the consumer is the same. So if the difference is a result of outsourcing vs a limited permanent staff, that still reflects a choice each studio has made leading to the difference in content. It's not like Gran Turismo's sales would leave it budget starved.

 

[Fess]

the car modeling / lighting on GTS makes it almost different generation compared to the other 2. like seriously. specially the lighting.. amazing.

It's better but like a different generation? seriously?
Anyhow, it's just too bad that the GTS cam is so stiff, not that chase cam is ever used but it's really annyingly bad imo. And GTS cockpit cam was stiff too in the demo at least. PD has some researching to do there for their next game.

 

[Klik]

Wait that's real life racing or on console?

 

[Melfice7]

Anyhow, it's just too bad that the GTS cam is so stiff, not that chase cam is ever used but it's really annyingly bad imo. And GTS cockpit cam was stiff too in the demo at least. PD has some researching to do there for their next game.

It was customizable in the demo and it is in the final game... the fixed cam being the default is the bad idea

 

[dr guildo]

...

 

[Baroquemantic]

Jeebus

 

[rodrigolfp]

the car modeling / lighting on GTS makes it almost different generation compared to the other 2. like seriously. specially the lighting.. amazing.

Crushed blacks + oversaturation/more contrast = different generation. xD

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Crushed blacks + oversaturation/more contrast = different generation. xD

There's crushed blacks and oversaturation in GTS?

 

[rodrigolfp]

There's crushed blacks and oversaturation in GTS?

Not in the game. Some said that some capture cards problem is causing black crushes, like the one we can see in the Corvette video.

 

[Apex]

How many cars did Turn 10 model?

We know Polyphony Digital modelled all of them internally.

"As an artist you would expect to be making great art. That's not the case at Turn 10. All the fun content creation is outsourced to India and Vietnam. At Turn 10 the artist basically polish and refine the assets that the vendors return. It's often tedious and boring work. On occasion you would have to model or texture something that was missed or incorrect but most of the time you were just touching up something."

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Microsoft-RVW8156764.htm

 

[FlutterPuffs]

"As an artist you would expect to be making great art. That's not the case at Turn 10. All the fun content creation is outsourced to India and Vietnam. At Turn 10 the artist basically polish and refine the assets that the vendors return. It's often tedious and boring work. On occasion you would have to model or texture something that was missed or incorrect but most of the time you were just touching up something."

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Microsoft-RVW8156764.htm

It's not a bad thing if it's true. Car models is just one thing in a racing game. Physics and how they drive is another.

I love GTS, I love taking pictures of the cars, I love sometimes just looking at the replays and marvel at them.

but I'd take lesser quality models if that means more cars and caRPG.

 

[Apex]

It's not a bad thing if it's true. Car models is just one thing in a racing game. Physics and how they drive is another.

I love GTS, I love taking pictures of the cars, I love sometimes just looking at the replays and marvel at them.

but I'd take lesser quality models if that means more cars and caRPG.

I like the GT way. There are very few games today prioring quality over quantity and attention to details has been always key in the franchise. Second game per generation is where traditionally the content expands (GT2, GT4, GT6) and I suspect that this will be addressed with a more aggressive DLC program if there's no other GT title in PS4. The only GT that broke the content rule in the first game per generation was GT5 with the incursion of the standard cars and enhaced tracks from GT4, and PD knows how that ended. People expect large content but over that also extreme quality in a GT.

 

[Niks]

wrong thread

 

[STEaMkb]

nm

 

[Sebmugi]

Re-hello everyone, I think this video is perfect for this thread ..

https://youtu.be/SQ6W4bVqQzk

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Forza Horizon 3 is probably my only reason to want an Xbox One. It's so my kind of game, much more than GT Sport is.

I'm thinking I will end up getting it for PC and playing through my TV tbh. The Horizon series has always looked good but I've always owned a PlayStation.

 

[icecold1983]

Re-hello everyone, I think this video is perfect for this thread ..

https://youtu.be/SQ6W4bVqQzk

yeah. you have to be a huge fanboy to watch that and still come here and argue that forza 7 is better. they even used a titan xp equipped pc for 4k 8xmsaa

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

yeah. you have to be a huge fanboy to watch that and still come here and argue that forza 7 is better. they even used a titan xp equipped pc for 4k 8xmsaa

Yeah I just quoted someone else in the GT:S sales thread who was saying that F7 deserved the better sales. Pointed out this video to them and told them to watch and ask themselves the question again.

 

[TBiddy]

Yeah I just quoted someone else in the GT:S sales thread who was saying that F7 deserved the better sales. Pointed out this video to them and told them to watch and ask themselves the question again.

How does a different lighting engine equal "GTS deserves more sales"?

 

[c0de]

yeah. you have to be a huge fanboy to watch that and still come here and argue that forza 7 is better. they even used a titan xp equipped pc for 4k 8xmsaa

Yes but this doesn't mean the PC is used to its fullest as argued a thousandst times. What you get here is very close to what you get on Xbox One X so the image of a PS4 Pro outdoing such a PC is completely misleading.
In general, I think it would have been better if dark had tested amateur PS4 and Xbox One instead.

 

[Behlel]

How does a different lighting engine equal "GTS deserves more sales"?

How does a superior metascore equal more sales?

 

[icecold1983]

Yes but this doesn't mean the PC is used to its fullest as argued a thousandst times. What you get here is very close to what you get on Xbox One X so the image of a PS4 Pro outdoing such a PC is completely misleading.
In general, I think it would have been better if dark had tested amateur PS4 and Xbox One instead.

it means its forza at its fullest

Yeah I just quoted someone else in the GT:S sales thread who was saying that F7 deserved the better sales. Pointed out this video to them and told them to watch and ask themselves the question again.

im referring to visuals only. both games bore me to death as i dont like sim racers

 

[TBiddy]

How does a superior metascore equal more sales?

I never said it did.

 

[c0de]

it means its forza at its fullest

Yes, it is. But for context you have to consider where both games come from - Xbox One and PS4 and there is still a big power difference between them.

 

[icecold1983]

Yes, it is. But for context you have to consider where both games come from - Xbox One and PS4 and there is still a big power difference between them.

i mean of course, doesnt change that people keep claiming forza has better visuals because of teh pc powah

 

[c0de]

i mean of course, doesnt change that people keep claiming forza has better visuals because of teh pc powah

There is always someone with a strange opinion, otherwise it wouldn't be GAF. That said, it doesn't mean that Forza looks bad or doesn't have advantages over GTS,

 

[TBiddy]

i mean of course, doesnt change that people keep claiming forza has better visuals because of teh pc powah

It does, in many areas. There's always the question of lighting, though, where it could be argued that GT:S looks better.

 

[icecold1983]

It does, in many areas. There's always the question of lighting, though, where it could be argued that GT:S looks better.

GT looks better in every area other than resolution. better materials, more geometry, more detailed tracks, real shadows, better lighting, better cars etc

 

[c0de]

GT looks better in every area other than resolution

Didn't dark say that textures are also better?

 

[icecold1983]

Didn't dark say that textures are also better?

he said they were higher resolution(which is where i said forza wins), but materials are sitll worse

 

[c0de]

he said they were higher resolution(which is where i said forza wins), but materials are sitll worse

Texture resolution is not overall resolution. Both contribute to image quality, though.

 

[TBiddy]

GT looks better in every area other than resolution. better materials, more geometry, more detailed tracks, real shadows, better lighting, better cars etc

The aliasing gets pretty nasty in GTS at times. It really detracts from the whole thing.

GTS looks fantastic, no doubt, but I don't agree with your assessment. The lighting looks a lot better in GTS, yes, but reading back through this thread, it becomes obvious that not all is perfect in neither FM or GT.

 

[Toxa]

Wait that's real life racing or on console?

ps4

 

[LostDonkey]

When the lighting is right on GTS it is stunning. Brands hatch overcast comes to mind, it's just not that often it's blown me away like that.

Bit that moment was whoa.

 

[icecold1983]

The aliasing gets pretty nasty in GTS at times. It really detracts from the whole thing.

GTS looks fantastic, no doubt, but I don't agree with your assessment. The lighting looks a lot better in GTS, yes, but reading back through this thread, it becomes obvious that not all is perfect in neither FM or GT.

where in that video was aliasing nasty? the forza 7 footage had more aliasing due to the lack of a temporal aa which GT seems to have

 

[TBiddy]

where in that video was aliasing nasty? the forza 7 footage had more aliasing due to the lack of a temporal aa which GT seems to have

Check the screenshots posted in this thread, instead of relying on compressed Youtube videos.

 

[icecold1983]

Check the screenshots posted in this thread, instead of relying on compressed Youtube videos.

i didnt watch it on youtube, i downloaded the high quality version from their patreon. ive also played the forza 7 demo on my own pc. judging aliasing in still images is also pointless

 

[dampflokfreund]

Sometimes GTS just looks like reality. Its mindblowing.

 

[cooldawn]

Nobody knows. There were at least 4 outsourcing studios (Glasegg, Dhruva, Acme..) from India, China, Austria and US responsible for 360 Forza era. Now the Forzavista hsve quadripled the needed job and there is also significant amount of work done by Playground guys.

"As an artist you would expect to be making great art. That's not the case at Turn 10. All the fun content creation is outsourced to India and Vietnam. At Turn 10 the artist basically polish and refine the assets that the vendors return. It's often tedious and boring work. On occasion you would have to model or texture something that was missed or incorrect but most of the time you were just touching up something."

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Microsoft-RVW8156764.htm

So it's the same as before...

No idea. I'm not arguing the specifics, only explaining the logic that Inf3cted_b3ast was questioning. The perception is that Turn 10 produce more content in a shorter time window than Polyphony does with GT. How much of that is due to a greater number of people vs each person taking longer per car is something we wouldn't know.

The realities of development aren't something many people pay much concern, because at the end of the day, the cost for each game to the consumer is the same. So if the difference is a result of outsourcing vs a limited permanent staff, that still reflects a choice each studio has made leading to the difference in content. It's not like Gran Turismo's sales would leave it budget starved.

...whichs mean there's months/years of work Turn 10 don't undertake themselves. It's an absolutely relevant metric. There are no 'less cars to divide the attention between'. Polyphony Digital attend to everything with about 140 staff.

Turn 10 have, what, 300 staff working on Forza Motorsport. You'd expect variance in vehicle quality and a game every 2 years.

 

[TBiddy]

i didnt watch it on youtube, i downloaded the high quality version from their patreon. ive also played the forza 7 demo on my own pc. judging aliasing in still images is also pointless

No it's not. It's obviously there. Arguing against it is just silly.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I much prefer the visuals in GTS (especially the lighting) but I'm loving the look of F7 in terms of content.

 

[MilkyJoe]

How does a different lighting engine equal "GTS deserves more sales"?

Blind fanboyism. The one that deserves better sales is the one that gives you the best experience for your money.

 

[icecold1983]

No it's not. It's obviously there. Arguing against it is just silly.

Arguing against video evidence is silly. The video comparison clearly shows that GT is more temporally stable due to whatever aa its using. This is while drawing roughly 1/4th of the pixels per frame

 

[BigLee74]

GT looks better in every area other than resolution. better materials, more geometry, more detailed tracks, real shadows, better lighting, better cars etc

Just so you know, baked environmental shadows are still real shadows, with the added bonus that they can be rendered at a nice high resolution. Given neither game supports a moving sun, it would appear to be the better way of doing things here.